She Gave Many Clues to Her Condition

[bauers220]

There were so many clues she gave me... .things she described about herself that NOW make sense... .she was describing BPD... .

She once told me the LD was tough on her - she does better in relationships if she were to walk out the door every day and see me there... .that the space between seeing each other made it hard. Translation - when I see you and then you go away... .it triggers my abandonment wound and I can't cope so I retreat like a child... .instead of knowing my need to see you again and ask... .I can't tell you my needs... .chaos instead... .

She told me she hated herself - her impulsivity... .she knew she was harming others and herself by her behavior.

She once told me she never understood my love for her.  In fact she said flat out she never truly felt worthy of it.  Said that her whole life she put on armor of a tough exterior so that no one knew what she felt inside - how BADLY she felt... .but with me those walls came down.

She told me she was afraid of committment

She said she was no good in relationships

She said she felt she was better off alone

And she told me she didn't know what made her leave me over and over again... .

Clues... .I had them... .I didn't listen... .

[mitchell16]

i know where you are coming from mine gave me all kinds of clues but i didnt kow anything about BPD, never heard of it. Mine told me thing very early but she was always able to "fix" what she said as a way of making me think it would be diffrent.

I got mad and left in the beginning. She said you should never do that to someone who has abandonment issues

I cant do a relationhsip ( but since she found me she felt like now she could)

I have abondement issues.

How can I love anyone when I dont love myself ( right after she just told me she loved me)

I dont know why I treat you they way I do. You are the only person I do that with.

while I was sleeping woke up to her whispering, PLease dont leave me, never leave me.

Im just not a good person.

Im broke and I cant be fixed.

I cant lose myself again, it took me to long to find me.

This was all before i found out about BPD. I felt like if I just reassured her it would get better. But it never did. Once I stumbled on BPD, it all made sense. I ha dthe red flags but chose not to listen becsaue I didnt know any better. Never seen anything like this.

[toerrishuman]

Wow, your post bauers220, really hit home with me!  I too did not have a clue to what BPD was and yes, I saw and heard all the red flags from my ex.  When I look back it was like I was being set up for failure, to be honest I enable her. 

I have spent 8 months with NC and my clarity and soul are coming back.  I am still sad but I am getting less sad as each day passes.  I am new me and I am slowly getting use to it.  I feel I no longer have low self-esteem and co-dependance issues as I work on crushing my ego.

Remember everyone, it was not your fault! Our ex BPDs, will continue their cycle of abusive behavior until they get help and chances of that happening are never.  As long as they surrounds themselves with enablers and keep picking new victims, why change? 

I would not wish BPD on my worst enemy.  I have forgiven and pity my ex BPD girlfriend and first time in my life, I am finally out of the fog in all aspects of my life. :-)

[DownandOut]

I, too, got so many clues:

Random texts telling me "Please don't give up on me." (Before the devaluation phase as if she knew it was coming)

Told me on many occasions, "I don't know why I feel this way, I hate myself for feeling this way."

[/list]

Whispering in my ear, "Please don't hurt me."

Told me "I do love you, but I'm not sure it's enough, I've experienced all different types of love and I'm not sure which one is real."

[/list]

Told me so many times about how messed up she is and how she's always trying to find herself.

[/list]


The sad part is I didn't know what BPD was. I wish I knew. Maybe I could have helped her because she was desperately crying out for help. But, then I think about her lack of empathy and I wonder if I could have helped at all.

[peas]

Oh the clues. Everywhere and early on. Yet we stayed.

I also did not know about BPD while I was in the r/s. I had two major factors that influenced my r/s: I had to move away from my guy for a job offer early in the r/s, and my ex is an alcoholic. So I saw everything that went wrong during the r/s as me moving away (for me, huge guilt and regret) and him being drunk, which inhibited intimacy.

My ex told me early that he pushes people away. I wanted to see for myself what he meant. I thought maybe he had grown out of that behavior with past girlfriends. No.

My ex told me early I have no idea how complicated he is. I thought, yeah, so am I, what's the problem. I wanted to see for myself what he meant and that maybe he was exaggerating. No.

My ex hinted at how bad his marriage was and that after the divorce he did not deal with any of the issues in the marriage. He just drank more to bury the feelings and memories. I thought he had learned that coping that way didn't help his problems. No.

My ex, in a drunken rage a month into the r/s told me I sucked and destroyed my property. He was deeply ashamed, temporarily sobered up (his idea, not mine), said he didn't want to lose me. I thought he had turned a corner. No.

[bauers220]

I didn't know about BPD until about 9 mos in... .I stayed another year and a half... .I tried my best to help - I became more loving... .more forgiving... .She eventually agreed to work with a spiritual counselor - and as far as I can see still is... .But she still ripped me apart in her old style - nasty words you shouldn't say even if you hated someone... .yet she tells them to me... .I have given up on her yes - I have to in order to give ME a chance.  If she ever truly does change and its meant to be... .we will cross path again one day... .But I hold my breath for no one... .

[peas]

I have given up on her yes - I have to in order to give ME a chance.  If she ever truly does change and its meant to be... .we will cross path again one day... .But I hold my breath for no one.

That's where I am today.

[winston72]

This is a really helpful thread for me today.  Thank you to all.

Your recollections of things said early in the relationship are echoes of things I also heard.  The term "clues" implies that the other person knew what all of this meant and they were just parsing out information slowly to deceive us.  I don't think that was true in my situation.  I think she was groping in the dark and expressing what she was feeling and thinking.  In my lack of understanding and with my own need to establish my worth by doing something for her, I took this "red flags" as being beacons of light showing me the way to her heart... .guiding me to the truth about how to truly love her!  Geez, I am realizing this as I type it.  It is really true.  I turned those red lights into green lights and sped up.  My, oh my... .I am sad for me and for her.  What pain and suffering resulted.

I am 58 years old.  I was married for 25 years.  I did not have a grasp of enough basic relationship or personality dynamics to make sense of it as it happened.  I am still sorting it out on a daily basis now.  In the moment, I did not understand certain comments or behaviors to be red flags.  Wow, that sounds dumb.  I do now... .but it is still sinking in.  The difficulty in my fully integrating the red-flags in her behavior is chipping away at the denial in my own life about all sorts of stuff.  Being in denial about a host of things in my life led me into a pattern of denial and unreal, or fantasy thinking, about this woman and our relationship.

I not only stayed, I deepened my commitments... .I accelerated the fantasy.  My denial grew so it could stay larger than the facts.

I am so thankful to be deconstructing the relationship and my inner world and moving toward constructing a new inner life.

[peas]

Wisdom. Thank you Winston. This is what I have been feeling and you put it into words what I couldn't identify.

I think she was groping in the dark and expressing what she was feeling and thinking.  In my lack of understanding and with my own need to establish my worth by doing something for her, I took this "red flags" as being beacons of light showing me the way to her heart... .guiding me to the truth about how to truly love her!  Geez, I am realizing this as I type it.  It is really true.  I turned those red lights into green lights and sped up.

[UmbrellaBoy]

Told me "I do love you, but I'm not sure it's enough, I've experienced all different types of love and I'm not sure which one is real."

This is so uncanny. My guy was talking with a mutual friend (who sent me a copy of the facebook conversation) about me during one of our "break ups" before he crawled back to me. The mutual friend asked, "Are you in love with him?" and he replied: "Yes. I mean, I think I do love UmbrellaBoy, but I'm not sure if it's enough. I'm not sure I really even know what love is."

And as for clues, boy he was giving them from day one. Literally, in our first conversation (I've saved the emails) when we were just becoming friends, before we knew there was any chance that it would become a romantic involvement of any sort... .he mentioned to me that his previous relationships had been "always tumultuous," and very early on he spoke of himself being "so fickle" in love. Would that I have heeded those warnings... .

[Ironmanrises]

Mine displayed clues... .

As far back as when friendship first started.

I had no idea.

Her push/pull behavior... .

Prominent... .

As our friendship blossomed(getting close)... .

I had no idea.

She would say she was scared of commitment... .

She would say she was scared of allowing herself... .

To fall in love.

She would say she was very complicated... .

She told me she was abused as a child... .

She told me she was raped as an adult... .

She told me a guy was stalking her... .

She would be all over my facebook... .

And then withdraw all of that attention... .

And that was just in the friendship.

I had no f¥cking idea.

I knew something was clearly f¥cking wrong... .

But what... .?

I would soon find out brutally... .

When she became my girlfriend... .

In round 1.

My tears have returned as i write this.

[hopealways]

Mine gave me clues, which I disregarded at the time, but now I know. She said:

1. She called herself "troubled"

2. She says she always "hits up"

3. She would get enraged and go from 0 to 100 in 1 seconds, for the stupidest things

4. She would lie about everything, even what coffee shop she was at

5. She said "you don't know how to deal with me"

6. She called HERSELF a "crazy bhit"

7. Her mother told me "she can be mean sometimes"

... .lesson learned: always listen to mom.

[bauers220]

Makes my heart hurt for each and every one of you.  Here has been the toughest part for me... .I do not believe this woman was ever malicious - her child like behavior was always there - the good AND the bad.  When we were close and she told me things about her past - she often cried in my arms... .I felt like I was her safety net.  She told me over and over I was the one person in the world she trusted... .I believed her... .still do.

But the cold hard truth is - she could not be enough for me ... .she knew it... .even said she felt that she was robbing me - felt like what she had to give wasn't enough for me... .I would tell her she was enough... .but she would leave.

Ironman - you mentioned the FB behavior.  I have been there - she would come on FB and lavish me with all kinds of attention for days... .then she would disappear... .I became familiar with it and knew what it meant when she did.  It made me anxious ... .I knew what was coming... .but what... .was it silent time... .would we fight because I would hate the silence so much I'd have to speak up and voice my concern?  She would always come back apologizing when she thought she did something to lose me.  Now I don't think she cares.  She's into something "new" ... .her newfound hope and religion.  She always use to tell me she did nothing half way - she just had various obsessions... .till she got bored... .then it would be a new one.  She lumped me into that... .

Sigh... .I just wish I could make sense of t all... .and I know its a disorder but I am truly broken from it all... .having to rebuild... .

So many clues - even read an old conversation from one of her old FB accounts (she has had many since we met - deleting them and making new ones)... .and I see it more clearly now... .how could I have been so blind.

No I wasn't always this dumb... .she was charming - she was my first real GF - she romanced me like no one ever did - and I returned it in kind.  She once told me she use to play games with women - played it well - but I came along and beat her at her own game and she fell for me instead... .Perfect... .

[Ironmanrises]

Bauers,

She would always come back... .

Even though she appears... .

To be into something new... .

Dont forget that first line... .

She would always come back....

That is the pattern.

Just because she is into something new... .

Doesnt mean her disorder went away... .

Or that you are off her radar... .

They dont properly detach from us... .

Remember... .

They do not properly grieve the closure of the relationship... .

Their disorder compels them to return.

Hang in there.

I know the hurt you speak of.

The rebuilding... .

All of it.

With the eerie feeling... .

That out in the horizon... .

The possibility of her return... .

Is real.

It has happened before.

Stay strong.

[Turkish]

There were so many clues she gave me... .things she described about herself that NOW make sense... .she was describing BPD... .

Clues... .I had them... .I didn't listen... .

To echo what everybody else here is saying:

- I don't believe in marriage [commitment]

- I can regulate my emotions

- I hate when I am like this, I can't control it (and from her private notes, me and the kids would be better off without her). I hate when I treat you like this

- I'm a b*tch to you, but I'm _your_ b*tch

- (for the first few years) You won't ever leave me, or beat me, right? Repeatedly!

- (for the first few years) You love me, right?

- constant need for reassurance and contact

- if I wasn't there at least ten minutes before an agreed upon time, the texting would start, "where are you? Are you ok? Be careful!"

- If I happened to be a little late, the anger

- anger over little, stupid things the rest of us would just blow off, or only show slight annoyance

- anxiety in social situations, unless she was in control (she is something like a teacher)... .This was my first impression of her seeing her across the room the way and where she was sitting. Should have trusted my gut! I chalked it up to being shy.

In the middle years:

- Extreme depression (one horribly ruined Christmas)

- honesty about her childhood traumas (father a serial cheater (still is!) and back then, a beater of her mom)

- <b>:)esperate to understand why her father was the way he was, desperate for his love of which he is incapable

- Extreme abandonment issues, throwing and breaking things, only once when I was there and she slammed the fridge door so hard that contents broke and made a mess all over the floor... .all because I let our son fall asleep in our arms before his bath time,

And later... .

- Any man who comes after you (since I'm ten years older, we used to discuss me kicking the bucket... .at my prompting, stupidly) won't compare. You are so good you will ruin any other in my eyes (Objectively, I'd say this is true, I don't think she will find as kind and as patient man as me, but who knows?)

- You understand women so well (others have told me this, being the only child of a single mother, that is true *in a sense* about me, but that is also dysfunctional on my side since my mother was crazy/Depressed/angry/loving)

- You don't understand women

And so on... .the #1 dating advice I will have for my kids, or anyone is MAKE SURE they get along well with their parents, especially the one of the opposite sex.

[Turkish]

There were so many clues she gave me... .things she described about herself that NOW make sense... .she was describing BPD... .

Clues... .I had them... .I didn't listen... .

One more thing to add, in the beginning, she told me that with her, I'd get both heaven and hell. Based on the stories here, even with kids between us, I know it could be much worse. And NEVER was it "heaven." Typical idealization of herself. *bah*

[HarmKrakow]

There were so many clues she gave me... .things she described about herself that NOW make sense... .she was describing BPD... .

Clues... .I had them... .I didn't listen... .

To echo what everybody else here is saying:

- I don't believe in marriage [commitment]

- I can regulate my emotions

- I hate when I am like this, I can't control it (and from her private notes, me and the kids would be better off without her). I hate when I treat you like this

- I'm a b*tch to you, but I'm _your_ b*tch

- (for the first few years) You won't ever leave me, or beat me, right? Repeatedly!

- (for the first few years) You love me, right?

- constant need for reassurance and contact

- if I wasn't there at least ten minutes before an agreed upon time, the texting would start, "where are you? Are you ok? Be careful!"

- If I happened to be a little late, the anger

- anger over little, stupid things the rest of us would just blow off, or only show slight annoyance

- anxiety in social situations, unless she was in control (she is something like a teacher)... .This was my first impression of her seeing her across the room the way and where she was sitting. Should have trusted my gut! I chalked it up to being shy.

In the middle years:

- Extreme depression (one horribly ruined Christmas)

- honesty about her childhood traumas (father a serial cheater (still is!) and back then, a beater of her mom)

- <b>:)esperate to understand why her father was the way he was, desperate for his love of which he is incapable

- Extreme abandonment issues, throwing and breaking things, only once when I was there and she slammed the fridge door so hard that contents broke and made a mess all over the floor... .all because I let our son fall asleep in our arms before his bath time,

And later... .

- Any man who comes after you (since I'm ten years older, we used to discuss me kicking the bucket... .at my prompting, stupidly) won't compare. You are so good you will ruin any other in my eyes (Objectively, I'd say this is true, I don't think she will find as kind and as patient man as me, but who knows?)

- You understand women so well (others have told me this, being the only child of a single mother, that is true *in a sense* about me, but that is also dysfunctional on my side since my mother was crazy/Depressed/angry/loving)

- You don't understand women

And so on... .the #1 dating advice I will have for my kids, or anyone is MAKE SURE they get along well with their parents, especially the one of the opposite sex.

The sentences in black in my opinion have nothing to do with BPD in particular. I know enough sane persons who have those what you so call 'issues'. Single persons and people in relationship.

Lot of people have to hear that they are needed, etc. There is no '1 correct' normal behavior for a normal 'average' person. The sentences I didn't put in black in my opinion point more towards a BPD existence.

[HarmKrakow]

I, too, got so many clues:

Random texts telling me "Please don't give up on me." (Before the devaluation phase as if she knew it was coming)

Told me on many occasions, "I don't know why I feel this way, I hate myself for feeling this way."

[/list]

Whispering in my ear, "Please don't hurt me."

Told me "I do love you, but I'm not sure it's enough, I've experienced all different types of love and I'm not sure which one is real."

[/list]

Told me so many times about how messed up she is and how she's always trying to find herself.

[/list]


The sad part is I didn't know what BPD was. I wish I knew. Maybe I could have helped her because she was desperately crying out for help. But, then I think about her lack of empathy and I wonder if I could have helped at all.

Those sentences have nothing to do with BPD in particular. Could be linked, but not a 1 on 1 link.

[saw_tooth]

My list,some things are similar to what others have posted.

Incongruity too,here goes:

-There are no commitments in my life.

-I had 5 girls before but it was just short term ,none of them meant anything to me and were not like you.I was young and reckless then,things have changed now

-I don't like to visit my parents and don't go home even on holidays(indicative of bonding issues with parents)

-I am not good enough for you,go find someone else(it used to be followed by clinging to me)

-I am just a friend and you need someone else for life.

-I will be going abroad forever(this one was a favorite,used like punctuation marks)

-Go date other men followed by extreme jealousy and questioning on the lines of ':)id you go out with anyone while I was away?

One mention worthy episode which was the biggest

We had spent half a day together,things were fantastic and we had come very close.I was in his arms and he suddenly pulled away and started yelling ':)on't come too close to me,you will get hurt,I am warning you.My emotions are dead and I don't feel anything. ,I can't be with one person' .While he yelled and raged,his eyes were empty and he was not looking at me at all as though I did not exist then(we now know he was dissociating).This continued for a while,I had started crying and was watching him in horror and surprise.He then stopped suddenly,was all smiles,asked me why I was crying,hugged me, buried his head in my chest like a child and insisted we go out for snacks.

Ignoring this  'acting out'episode and rapid change of emotions from extreme rage to smiles within 2 minutes was my biggest mistake.

[HarmKrakow]

My list,some things are similar to what others have posted.

Incongruity too,here goes:

-There are no commitments in my life.

-I had 5 girls before but it was just short term ,none of them meant anything to me and were not like you.I was young and reckless then,things have changed now

-I don't like to visit my parents and don't go home even on holidays(indicative of bonding issues with parents)

-I am not good enough for you,go find someone else(it used to be followed by clinging to me)

-I am just a friend and you need someone else for life.

-I will be going abroad forever(this one was a favorite,used like punctuation marks)

-Go date other men followed by extreme jealousy and questioning on the lines of ':)id you go out with anyone while I was away?

One mention worthy episode which was the biggest

We had spent half a day together,things were fantastic and we had come very close.I was in his arms and he suddenly pulled away and started yelling ':)on't come too close to me,you will get hurt,I am warning you.My emotions are dead and I don't feel anything. ,I can't be with one person' .While he yelled and raged,his eyes were empty and he was not looking at me at all as though I did not exist then(we now know he was dissociating).This continued for a while,I had started crying and was watching him in horror and surprise.He then stopped suddenly,was all smiles,asked me why I was crying,hugged me, buried his head in my chest like a child and insisted we go out for snacks.

Ignoring this  'acting out'episode and rapid change of emotions from extreme rage to smiles within 2 minutes was my biggest mistake.

That last big red flag is a fantastic classical BPD sign. Man oh man what a 

[Tricky]

Just wish I'd known about BPD. It should be taught in school!

Of course I knew something wasn't normal about her behavior, but she always had a 1000 reasons and excuses, and an amazing ability to mislead everyone with half truths and vague rambling explanations.

How was I supposed to work it all out, esp when I was blinded by love, and deceived by her lies? How was I supposed to understand the irrational, deluded nature of her character? I'm not a psychiatrist.

But I have to take responsibility for putting up with her behavior, for my desire for love, for my character, and for my feelings. I have done this to myself. I was a willing participant/victim for most of the time.

Painful to resolve. And move on.

[bauers220]

I thought I had deleted all prior conversations between us via FB... .she's had multiple accounts in 2 years - my suspicion was she deactivated one to get away from someone she had played "games" of love with... .so they couldn't find her... .Anyway - there was one ... .so I went and read... .

In the course of 2 weeks she went from "I want you... .I love you... .you are the only one - I use to like women before but now I can't get there with anyone else... .its YOU... ." and then less than 2 weeks later she was posting songs to some woman's page and acting weird with me.  When I confronted her she went off on me "we are simply friends you and I.  I don't understand your jealousy - we are not married - don't box me in - I hate that - all we will ever be is friends"

I read my words back thinking - who the HECK am I? I sounded pathetic - apologetic even... .and then I went out with another woman.  She (my ex) acted the part of a friend and wanted to know all about her - asking for a pic and everything so I called her bluff.  Within hours I got a nasty email saying she could not be friends with me cause I lied to her by not telling her about this woman.  I emailed back and called the BS card... .

Within hours she caved - was a mess crying - broke off ties with the other woman and begged me to come see her... .

WOW - this is ONE instance... .Yet she has made me out to be an awful person.  Made this relationship out to be so awful for her as well... .like our disfucntion is soley tied to me somehow... .

And... .she's running a personal ad as we speak... .

Guess the love and light has changed everything hasn't it?   

[Turkish]

There were so many clues she gave me... .things she described about herself that NOW make sense... .she was describing BPD... .

Clues... .I had them... .I didn't listen... .

To echo what everybody else here is saying:

- I don't believe in marriage [commitment]

- I can regulate my emotions

In the middle years:

- Extreme depression (one horribly ruined Christmas)

- honesty about her childhood traumas (father a serial cheater (still is!) and back then, a beater of her mom)

- <b>:)esperate to understand why her father was the way he was, desperate for his love of which he is incapable

The sentences in black in my opinion have nothing to do with BPD in particular. I know enough sane persons who have those what you so call 'issues'. Single persons and people in relationship.

Lot of people have to hear that they are needed, etc. There is no '1 correct' normal behavior for a normal 'average' person. The sentences I didn't put in black in my opinion point more towards a BPD existence.

To clarify, what I put above was a typo. She has said, "I can't control my emotions; I wish I could!"

As for her father, it is an abandonment issue. He physically abandoned them to leave the country for work for a number of years. When they all got together, he emotionally abandoned her (and her sister, who also has problems, though not to her extent), as well as the repeated cheating and physical abuse towards her mother. Couple that with what she feels is a "robbed" childhood (yeah, welcome to the club, grow up!), and her statement to me when she said it was "over" between us, and I confronted her about the cheating was, "you abandoned me! It felt just like my father! [and therefore justifies what I did even though I hate that about my father and hate myself for doing what I hate about him, she told me later... .]"