If they know they are disordered...

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I was wondering today that if a pwBPD knows that they are disordered (or do they? Or is it a case of "I wonder why my relationships keep going wrong?"

If they do, and know that the relationship is 'doomed' from when the devaluation starts, then why bother to get engaged, or even married 

[houseofswans]

I was wondering today that if a pwBPD knows that they are disordered (or do they? Or is it a case of "I wonder why my relationships keep going wrong?"

If they do, and know that the relationship is 'doomed' from when the devaluation starts, then why bother to get engaged, or even married 

[hopealways]

YES they DO! They are just afraid to admit it or do anything about it. Looking back, my BPDex gave me many clues: she said she was "troubled", she told me she dreamed of the devil every night for over 10 years starting at a young age, she said she thought she was bipolar (I wish she was because at least there is medication for bipolar, but not for BPD), she had anxiety attacks.  I sometimes wonder if she was abused as a child but had blocked any memory of it, which is common.  She claims she had a happy childhood-I seriously doubt this.

[SicMDawgs]

Do they not think it is everyone else with the problem. ?  My ex is very judgemental to everyone. He thinks that he is correct 100% of the time and will cut you out of his life if you don't conform. 23 years ago when I dated him he had anger issues and did not get along with others.  When he found me on Facebook last year he had just gotten married in March of 2012. The first thing he typed to me was he was in an unstable marriage and to pray for him.   It has been a year he is still in that marriage, unfaithful to his wife , recycles in and out of my life by text message. (We live in different states.)

Comment he did make to me was he wished that he never would of married, he use to use women and marriage was only fulfilling if their was unity. Maybe one day I will have the strenght not to answer his text. I worry about him , why I don't know.  His life is a mess.

[Numbers]

Imagine, for one moment a disabled person that cannot walk and is doomed to life in wheelchair. Such a person would, in time, accept it and try to make best out of his life. I know several people who did. Now imagine a disabled person that (for any reason) cannot comprehend that he is disabled. He would try to walk, fall down, crawl, try again, fall again etc. without ever understanding that he cannot. Then he would look at all the people having fun, running, playing sports, going out, dancing... .and a great resentment would emerge. If you cannot do something and cannot find a reason for it, frustration ultimately builds itself to hatred towards both yourself and others.

This is a close as I can get to explaining BPD in layman terms. I dabble in particle physics on popular science level. And stuff like multiple dimensions, string theory, fields etc. is impossible to visualise. Just like that, we cannot visualise or comprehend how it is when you are unable to look at yourself and see consequences of your actions. These people just cannot. They do konw something is wrong. Experiences show them that something is wrong. But they just cannot connect effect to cause. Bpd is a particularly hard thing because it is just that - your defense mechanism prevents you from ever connecting consequences to your own actions. This can be learned through therapy, but I still believe that BPD after therapy is just like a colorblind person that still cannot see colors but can deduct traffic lights from their position out of three lamps.

My ex could probably earn a degree out of all psychology and self-help books she read, but after 10 years of research, she still cannot connect it to herself.

[fiddlestix]

My ex wife DOES know.  She has a diagnosis of bipolar with borderline traits.  In fact, she is a therapist and has deep knowledge of these issues. Yet, her life is a train wreck.  She takes meds for bipolar, but drinks alcohol so I am sure the meds are ineffective.  Our marriage fell apart after her countless affairs.  She has eating, shoplifting, raging, and many other issues.  She really has no friends, and her relationship with her two brothers is very strained. She has always been tormented.  She was abused (incest, neglect) as a young girl and teen, drank, did drugs and slept around as a teen and young adult.  

She has always been fascinated with zombies and the psyches of serial killers.  Maybe the awareness that she is "off" has led her to those themes.  She is terrified of snakes and sometimes wakes in the night screaming from a snake dream.  I saw red flags all along our 25 year relationship, but I had no understanding of BPD.  Thus I always hoped she would get better, which she often promised to do.  Four times in treatment have not been fruitful.  Her shenanigans start up again almost immediately after leaving treatment.  

Yet, with full awareness of her many issues, she continues to get involved with men, including a recent recycle with me (ouch, that one hurt).  She is now living with a much younger man.  Perhaps he is "Mr. Right," and I was her trigger all along.  We'll see.  

Fiddlestix

[fiddlestix]

48151... .   I know, right?  My ex has a masters degree in marriage therapy and psychology.  She is brilliant.  And, I have seen her conduct therapy on others.  She can be insightful and wise.  BUT HER OWN LIFE IS HORRIBLE!  It is so sad.  Last year, after she returned from a weekend bender of drinking, drugs and her boyfriend (which I knew all about), she told me that she knows there will be consequences, but she just ignores that.  She says she will deal with the consequences later.  She just got fired from one of her therapy jobs (inappropriate boundaries), but still has another job with a local charity organization.  It amazes me how she can seem to know herself, yet still sabotage every job and relationship that comes her way. 

It may be easier for us to grasp quantum mechanics and string theory than to understand the reasoning of a pwBPD   Thus, I have decided to try and understand me and my motives and issues.  That is almost as hard, but within my grasp. 

Fiddlestix

[Octoberfest]

VERY good posts in here.  A lot of really interesting stuff has been mentioned.

I will agree with 48151 in that trying to understand and rationalize their experience is near impossible for us as NON's to do.  We are trying to pull apart and understand using logic a completely illogical thing.  It simply is not possible.  My BPDex is diagnosed and well aware of her issues.  We would talk about them, how the cheating and lying she did was wrong and she would acknowledge that.  And then she would go and do it again.  She too was seeking a degree in psychology (before dropping out).  Many people with mental disorders become therapists/psychologists... .it is funny.  As fiddle mentioned, they can be incredibly able at understanding and solving other peoples problems; their own are beyond them however.  It is fascinating.

[Need2Know]

My exBPDgf knew about it. She admitted that she suffered from the "push/pull syndrome" which is another term for BPD.

She also told me that she suffers from depressions, anxeity, social phobia, attachments issues with her parents, afraid of abandonment etc.

She has been in therapy and has taken medicines.

But I was so in love with her so I tried to forget about her mental illness. But then the push/pull and love/hate started and it scared me off.

This was the case with her former boyfriends as well.

She is looking for someone new now. Most likely the pattern will repeat itself. I wonder if she ever thinks twice before she gets involved with someone - before she starts to hate them? Is she hoping that it finally will work out with the next guy?

[houseofswans]

I wonder if she ever thinks twice before she gets involved with someone - before she starts to hate them? Is she hoping that it finally will work out with the next guy?

A very good question 

[Octoberfest]

My exBPDgf knew about it. She admitted that she suffered from the "push/pull syndrome" which is another term for BPD.

She also told me that she suffers from depressions, anxeity, social phobia, attachments issues with her parents, afraid of abandonment etc.

She has been in therapy and has taken medicines.

But I was so in love with her so I tried to forget about her mental illness. But then the push/pull and love/hate started and it scared me off.

This was the case with her former boyfriends as well.

She is looking for someone new now. Most likely the pattern will repeat itself. I wonder if she ever thinks twice before she gets involved with someone - before she starts to hate them? Is she hoping that it finally will work out with the next guy?

pwBPD run from person to person, relationship to relationship, desperately hoping to find the one who can make all of their problems go away... .Of course, the only person who can solve their problems is them themselves; a terrifying reality, and one that even many healthy people have a tough time accepting.  For someone with the emotional maturity of a child, such a task is all but impossible... .so they run.  Run and look for the superhero who can make the pain go away.

[HarmKrakow]

I think it's difficult to generalize here. You have high-functioning borderliners, the one's very clever, highly university schooled and no-one outside the relationship notices the issues besides the partner itself.

And, every BPD is unique.

People with bi-polar, depression, anxiety attacks, burnouts, etc. are known to have a lower hurdle to seek help.

People with BPD (and any overlap with the other illnesses 1 sentence above this) are reluctant to seek help.

Bi-polar, depression, anxiety attacks, burnouts, attachment issues should be no reason to forfeit any marriage or relationship or anything at all.

Borderline personality disorder could be a very good reason to forfeit a marriage and cut it off.

[HarmKrakow]

My exBPDgf knew about it. She admitted that she suffered from the "push/pull syndrome" which is another term for BPD.

pwBPD run from person to person, relationship to relationship, desperately hoping to find the one who can make all of their problems go away... .Of course, the only person who can solve their problems is them themselves; a terrifying reality, and one that even many healthy people have a tough time accepting. For someone with the emotional maturity of a child, such a task is all but impossible... .so they run.  Run and look for the superhero who can make the pain go away.

I don't blame them. At all.

They can't help their behavior. Their brains are wired to react that way due to certain things which have happened in the past.

[Clearmind]

BPD is a poor pattern of relating, they are looking for the next saviour and you could be it, so could the next person.

Yes the brain is hardwired to react and to repeat patterns!

Any ideas why you got into the relationship HouseofSwans?

[Octoberfest]

My exBPDgf knew about it. She admitted that she suffered from the "push/pull syndrome" which is another term for BPD.

pwBPD run from person to person, relationship to relationship, desperately hoping to find the one who can make all of their problems go away... .Of course, the only person who can solve their problems is them themselves; a terrifying reality, and one that even many healthy people have a tough time accepting. For someone with the emotional maturity of a child, such a task is all but impossible... .so they run.  Run and look for the superhero who can make the pain go away.

I don't blame them. At all.

They can't help their behavior. Their brains are wired to react that way due to certain things which have happened in the past.[/quote]
With what many of them have been through, no, I cannot really blame them for running either.  However, their brains may be wired to react that way, but it doesn't make their lies or their actions hurt any less. Their actions are ultimately their own, whether they can help them or not.  It is tragic... .unbelievably tragic.  pwBPD are destined to live a life plagued by instability and turmoil.  But your post made me consider something... .  A big issue I have had with my BPD relationship is expectation vs. reality.  A lot of cognitive dissonance... .I think there may be something for me in the thought process that my BPDex is not capable of an honest and genuine, loving relationship.  So long as I believe that she is, I am living in pain because of her actions.  But if I try and accept that what she did is what she knows how to do, that she is doing it again and again with even more guys (which I have proof that she is), I think I may find healing.

This board is incredible.

[HarmKrakow]

My exBPDgf knew about it. She admitted that she suffered from the "push/pull syndrome" which is another term for BPD.

pwBPD run from person to person, relationship to relationship, desperately hoping to find the one who can make all of their problems go away... .Of course, the only person who can solve their problems is them themselves; a terrifying reality, and one that even many healthy people have a tough time accepting. For someone with the emotional maturity of a child, such a task is all but impossible... .so they run.  Run and look for the superhero who can make the pain go away.

I don't blame them. At all.

They can't help their behavior. Their brains are wired to react that way due to certain things which have happened in the past.

With what many of them have been through, no, I cannot really blame them for running either.  However, their brains may be wired to react that way, but it doesn't make their lies or their actions hurt any less. Their actions are ultimately their own, whether they can help them or not.  It is tragic... .unbelievably tragic.  pwBPD are destined to live a life plagued by instability and turmoil.  But your post made me consider something... .  A big issue I have had with my BPD relationship is expectation vs. reality.  A lot of cognitive dissonance... .I think there may be something for me in the thought process that my BPDex is not capable of an honest and genuine, loving relationship.  So long as I believe that she is, I am living in pain because of her actions.  But if I try and accept that what she did is what she knows how to do, that she is doing it again and again with even more guys (which I have proof that she is), I think I may find healing.

This board is incredible.

Ding ding ding ding ding ... .

Winner winner chicken dinner! :D

Bro hug   Because you can assume I totally agree with you on this statement. And in my opinion it's also the truth and a good guidance to acceptance of what has happened and the part of healing and recovery. Many users in L3 flame their BPD to the ground for all the hurt and pain but still keep them responsible for what they did. In my opinion that is not going to solve anything. It seems you also heard the clocks go ding-dong :D

[Octoberfest]

My exBPDgf knew about it. She admitted that she suffered from the "push/pull syndrome" which is another term for BPD.

pwBPD run from person to person, relationship to relationship, desperately hoping to find the one who can make all of their problems go away... .Of course, the only person who can solve their problems is them themselves; a terrifying reality, and one that even many healthy people have a tough time accepting. For someone with the emotional maturity of a child, such a task is all but impossible... .so they run.  Run and look for the superhero who can make the pain go away.

I don't blame them. At all.

They can't help their behavior. Their brains are wired to react that way due to certain things which have happened in the past.

With what many of them have been through, no, I cannot really blame them for running either.  However, their brains may be wired to react that way, but it doesn't make their lies or their actions hurt any less. Their actions are ultimately their own, whether they can help them or not.  It is tragic... .unbelievably tragic.  pwBPD are destined to live a life plagued by instability and turmoil.  But your post made me consider something... .  A big issue I have had with my BPD relationship is expectation vs. reality.  A lot of cognitive dissonance... .I think there may be something for me in the thought process that my BPDex is not capable of an honest and genuine, loving relationship.  So long as I believe that she is, I am living in pain because of her actions.  But if I try and accept that what she did is what she knows how to do, that she is doing it again and again with even more guys (which I have proof that she is), I think I may find healing.

This board is incredible.

Ding ding ding ding ding ... .

Winner winner chicken dinner! :D

Bro hug   Because you can assume I totally agree with you on this statement. And in my opinion it's also the truth and a good guidance to acceptance of what has happened and the part of healing and recovery. Many users in L3 flame their BPD to the ground for all the hurt and pain but still keep them responsible for what they did. In my opinion that is not going to solve anything. It seems you also heard the clocks go ding-dong :D

I think it a natural and often necessary part of the healing process... .But the true healing, the healing that we are capable of as NON's, the healing that separates us from our BPDex's, comes from finding peace in what happened. There are a few words that I HIGHLY associate with the healing process... .Words like "grace", "journey", and "humility".

[Learning_curve74]

BPD is a poor pattern of relating, they are looking for the next saviour and you could be it, so could the next person.

Yes the brain is hardwired to react and to repeat patterns!

What Clearmind says up there... .And pwBPD are not the only people who are conditioned to repeat the same patterns of behavior, we all are.

[Emelie Emelie]

My xBF knows he has BPD.  But for him it is about his rages, his jealousy, his fear of abandonment.  He thinks those are the things that are screwing up his relationships.  I don't think he's cognizant of how the fear of abandonment manifests, the devaluing etc.  And his stuff shows up in non-romantic relationships too.  He hired a new assistant when we were together.  He completely idealized her in the beginning.  She was amazing.  She and his son were going to run the business together after he retired.  He was ready to give her the keys to the kingdom.  They had worked together for about a week!  I'd learned quite a bit about BPD at this point and I tried to caution him a bit.  I said she sounds really terrific but you don't know her that well yet.  Give yourself time to see how it plays out before you place all this trust in her.  (A former employee stole quite a bit of money from him.)  He got really angry with me.  He was "not stupid and a really good judge of character".  I'm sure none of you are surprised she no longer works for him.

[Ironmanrises]

I was wondering today that if a pwBPD knows that they are disordered (or do they? Or is it a case of "I wonder why my relationships keep going wrong?"

If they do, and know that the relationship is 'doomed' from when the devaluation starts, then why bother to get engaged, or even married  

Good question House.

In bold.

They know... .

And then they deny.

And then admit... .

Only to deny again later.

And when they admit only... .

It is to get back into the life of the non... .

Which sets up... .

The later denial... .

Followed by the admit/denial.

So if they admit... .

That they have a disorder... .

Which causes them to leave... .

And deny that very disorder... .

In the same breath... .

Well... .

To them... .

Such thinking... .

Allows them to get engaged/married... .

Horrific... .?

Yes.

[Need2Know]

Hi HarmKrkow,

"They can't help their behavior. Their brains are wired to react that way due to certain things which have happened in the past."

Actually I feel sorry for my exBPDgf. Her illness is due to things that happended in her childhood, and it could be genetical as well. In one way she is innocent. But it's sad that other people need to suffer from her problems as well.

[Turkish]

I was wondering today that if a pwBPD knows that they are disordered (or do they? Or is it a case of "I wonder why my relationships keep going wrong?"

If they do, and know that the relationship is 'doomed' from when the devaluation starts, then why bother to get engaged, or even married 

Mine does know. She's always been very open with me from almost the beginning (My thing is to figure out why I didn't RUN several times in the beginning, especially before having kids (S3, D1). And the stuff I found that she has written over the years... .just a few notes, but very, very bad. She knows, and has said that she "knows what's coming" for her (karma, etc... .), but she still needs to do it. It gives me some compassion for her (and yes, I know I have it a lot easier than a lot of people here), despite her betrayal.

[Ironmanrises]

I was wondering today that if a pwBPD knows that they are disordered (or do they? Or is it a case of "I wonder why my relationships keep going wrong?"

If they do, and know that the relationship is 'doomed' from when the devaluation starts, then why bother to get engaged, or even married  

Mine does know. She's always been very open with me from almost the beginning (My thing is to figure out why I didn't RUN several times in the beginning, especially before having kids (S3, D1). And the stuff I found that she has written over the years... .just a few notes, but very, very bad. She knows, and has said that she "knows what's coming" for her (karma, etc... .), but she still needs to do it. It gives me some compassion for her (and yes, I know I have it a lot easier than a lot of people here), despite her betrayal.

In bold/italics/underlined.

Perhaps/most likely/it is... .

(Circle any or all that apply)... .

Because... .

Doing that... .

Is easier... .

Then... .

Admitting completely... .

And... .

Going to therapy.

Almost like... .

I will destroy you... .

Is far more simple... .

Then turn around... .

And look at myself... .

And ask... .

Why do i want to destroy you... .?

Why do i want to destroy... .

The person who has done nothing... .

To me... .?

Whose only crime... .

Was that he/she loved me.

Alas... .

That is just a dream... .

Within a dream... .

Of the frightening reality... .

Of having endured... .

The nightmare of being with... .

Someone with BPD.

Hang in there Turkish.