Forgiveness & Anger

[Rose Tiger]

I think about all I put up in the r/s.  All the money wasted doing things like refinancing the house, paying half the bills when I only made a two thirds of what he did.  Paying all the divorce costs.  It's always oh, let me take care of it.  And getting myself all in debt.  I had to get the roof redone, the insurance tells me, oh since you refinanced your under the new rule that you pay a percentage of house value on the roof and we pay the rest.  So instead of a 1000 deductible, I have to pay $3k.  In the divorce, I told ex, I'll take the credit card debt in lieu of any equity you are due.  Well there is no equity, the house actually lost value in a crappy economy so I took on the credit card debt for no good reason.  I'm kicking myself for all this trouble.  Why didn't I say, hey buddy, you are paying bills in accordance to your salary, thank you very much.  Or, hey, this credit card debt is from our honeymoon and you are paying half.  Or, you know what, I don't think we should get married.  Or, why didn't I end it so much sooner?  Why did I keep hanging on thinking he would change?

I realize that I just wasn't strong enough to walk away, I wasn't strong enough to say, hey buddy, this is not fair and I'm not putting up with it.  I was too doormat wimpy and I have to forgive myself for being weak.  I have to forgive myself for not having skills to be assertive.  I have to forgive myself for how much money it cost me to be too weak to stand up for myself.  

Forgiving him?  Eh, that's like forgiving a rattlesnake for biting you when you kept picking the dang thing up.  He's a rattlesnake, he bites, that's what they do.  What is there to forgive?  Maybe the con man charm thing he did at the beginning that totally sucked me in, that was mean.  It was mean to put on that false charming self and then take off the mask to reveal godzilla after I married him and he is living in my house.  I'm mad I have to pay that much for a roof, I'm mad about the credit card debt.  

[Century2012]

I hear you! I was doing pretty well in the forgiveness department. Until yesterday. When I had a business appointment near a hotel where we once stayed.

I did so much for him! And he owes me not only money but his life. (That is a long story.) And now I hear that he is smearing me ... .he calls me to "talk." For 2 hours! I was okay with that because I am trying to be "nice" so I might get at least some of my money back. Then I hear through the grapevine that he is telling people that I am calling him. What? Not only is he calling me, his new wife is trying to be friends with me. I am just being polite. Then I get a text to "quit calling us." Fine, ya'll quit calling me. I will see them in court in April when the first payment is due.

[Century2012]

P.S. I like your rattlesnake comment. I used to think of it as a wolf caught in a trap that will bite you if try to save them because they are scared and wounded. The wolf will be nice and grateful afterwards. The rattlesnake conveniently forgets. Maybe we should call them scorpions. You know how a scorpion can sting itself to death?

[Rose Tiger]

Lol, he was more a Godzilla  grrrr GRRRR grrrr.  Good on you for working towards a settlement!  That's what gets me, I did this to myself because I was intimidated.  I DID THIS to myself.  Oh I wish I had a time machine to go back and give myself a little talking to about this.  Don't refi!  Don't marry him!  Tie myself up and sit on me until I came to my senses. 

[Learning_curve74]

I know a lot of people focus on forgiveness, maybe as an antidote for anger? 

I used to think that I could always forgive, but now I'm not sure. I know that I don't always have to be angry, and that anger turns corrosive for me. Sometimes it works as a swift kick in my butt to get something done tho.

Personally, I'm coming around to thinking that I don't necessarily want to forgive everybody for everything. There are plenty of people that don't deserve a place in my life, so maybe not forgiving is a good way to remind myself of that. 

[Aussie0zborn]

I could have written the origianl post myself. Word for word.

Ive been doing so well I have impressed myself but yesterday it hit me... .a very bad day. The abuse hurts. Having allowed it is what hurts but them taking advantge of it hurts more.

[fromheeltoheal]

The only thing we can change about the past is what we make it mean.  I too did a lot of stupid sht in the name of 'love', or to avoid her wrath, and the only way of looking at that now that feels good is those were lessons I needed to learn, apparently, and what better way than in a relationship I'm emotionally enmeshed in, where the pain cuts the deepest.

And it worked.  I've been using that pain as fuel to never, EVER put up with that crap again, and everyhing feels different.  I get too aggressive sometimes, which to me is better than passive but not as good as assertive, and that's OK, it's a process.  And the surprise?  It's nowhere near as hard as I thought it would be, people don't run away, I even gain respect with some people.  Go figure.  The current key is to not get big headed about it, sure way to get attacked back, but just state my needs and wants firmly and calmly.  Very effective when I pull it off, still fumbling, but thanks for the lesson BPD, it's the least you could do.

[HarmKrakow]

Took your life? Took your money? The biggest issue for me was taking my time.

In the end everything will die anyway, and every extra penny I have earned in my life when I die will rot next to me. However, that time, is the most precious. That I do blame her.

I spent roughly over >10/15K for her including debts she had with the psychologist (she never paid, bill was 3200 Euro).

I don't forgive myself, but I think the most of us here are to hard on ourselves ... .

[Blazing Star]

Rose Tiger   Anger is good, let it out, express it, let it burn off what you no longer need, there is a phoenix under there I promise!

And self-forgiveness, such a Challenge. I struggle with this too. Something that really helped me recently was a quote that I may have shared before:

"No one has the right to judge you. They may have heard the stories, but they didn't feel what you felt in your heart"

I turned this on myself, I realised I was judging myself so harshly for decisions I had made in the past, and I was stuck in the 'story' about it, I had forgotten the feelings in my heart at that time. Reminding myself of that younger version of me, of whatever she was feeling at the time, bless her, gave me such a sense of compassion, and made it easier to be more gentle on myself and maybe even forgive.

Love Blazing Star

[Rose Tiger]

Thanks Blazing Star, I was doing the best I could at the time with the skills I had, or the miss-skills I had learned.  We forget the pain after a time, like giving birth, you forget the pain but it was very real and present.  Like Harm, I regret the time, the years.  The roof and the credit card, those dollars are tangible, unlike the emotional trauma which is hard to put a price on.  Dear Ex, here is an invoice for X number of nights spent weeping after you told me (yet again) that you wanted a divorce, please pay me one million dollars.  A discount is applied for my actually filing for divorce.  Also, for every look that could kill you threw my way $100 a pop.  For bashing the back of my head against the kitchen counter, that's going to cost one billion dollars.  Please pay in full 30 days net.  People get millions for medical malpractice, what about marriage malpractice? 

Instead of whining more about this, I wrote to ex stating that I took the credit card debt in lieu of equity.  I told him the house actually decreased in value and although I have no legal standing, I would appreciate it if he would pay half the credit card.

He responded that he would pay half... .although he incurred a lot of expense when he moved out, that he didn't have the mortgage tax deduction while living in a rental, that this would make christmas incredibly rough this year.  So I answered, thanks, I appreciate you making this right, signed Rose Tiger. 

[Rose Tiger]

The only thing we can change about the past is what we make it mean.  I too did a lot of stupid sht in the name of 'love', or to avoid her wrath, and the only way of looking at that now that feels good is those were lessons I needed to learn, apparently, and what better way than in a relationship I'm emotionally enmeshed in, where the pain cuts the deepest.

And it worked.  I've been using that pain as fuel to never, EVER put up with that crap again, and everyhing feels different.  I get too aggressive sometimes, which to me is better than passive but not as good as assertive, and that's OK, it's a process.  And the surprise?  It's nowhere near as hard as I thought it would be, people don't run away, I even gain respect with some people.  Go figure.  The current key is to not get big headed about it, sure way to get attacked back, but just state my needs and wants firmly and calmly.  Very effective when I pull it off, still fumbling, but thanks for the lesson BPD, it's the least you could do.

Yes! 

[HarmKrakow]

How do you deal with the more upcoming aggression?

First, letting yourself getting walked over, and then feeling this anger, but now getting more aggressive...   :'(

[Rose Tiger]

I suppose by realizing the pokes aren't personal, people that poke are truly sad, suffering individuals to be pitied.  When you aren't taking them personally, you are better able to respond assertively.

My ex tried three pokes, he had moving expenses (due to me asking him to leave after the physical abuse happened), that he didn't have a mortgage deduction in the rental house (we filed jointly up to the divorce so my mortgage deduction was used by us both), christmas would be rough (wah, you will still spend thousands on some electronics spoiling your daughters since to him, money = love).  I bypassed every poke and responded assertively.  In the past, I would of gone all wimpy and said, you're right, nevermind. 

[thinkingthinking]

Your description of "pokes" are so familiar!

Like you, I sometimes feel bitter from the amount of debt I've been left with. Every time I have to deal with it, it stirs up those feelings of "what have I done"?  But getting through the divorce was a process, and dealing with his explosive emotions in the middle of it just didn't seem worth it at the time.

And yet, when I went to pick up my daughter on Thursday, we got to hear about his medical bills, his insurance, how his other costs were so high, etc.  I knew he wanted me to tell him that he could stop paying child support, but then I think about how many ridiculous purchases were made during our marriage and I decide that he owes that support to his daughter.

I applaud you for staying strong!   

[fromheeltoheal]

How do you deal with the more upcoming aggression?

First, letting yourself getting walked over, and then feeling this anger, but now getting more aggressive...  :'(

I'm really not mad at her anymore; I see her as more sick than mean, but she seemed to have uncorked a lot of anger towards other people that I had repressed, apparently.  Telling someone to fck off who desperately needs it feels good, but is not a long term solution.  I've found the basics work, diet, exercise and sleep, especially a good workout, and I've found loving someone to death, in my head, really takes the edge off the anger and helps.

[Rose Tiger]

Your description of "pokes" are so familiar!

Like you, I sometimes feel bitter from the amount of debt I've been left with. Every time I have to deal with it, it stirs up those feelings of "what have I done"?  But getting through the divorce was a process, and dealing with his explosive emotions in the middle of it just didn't seem worth it at the time.

And yet, when I went to pick up my daughter on Thursday, we got to hear about his medical bills, his insurance, how his other costs were so high, etc.  I knew he wanted me to tell him that he could stop paying child support, but then I think about how many ridiculous purchases were made during our marriage and I decide that he owes that support to his daughter.

I applaud you for staying strong!   

Applauding you, too!  They don't have it in them to be concerned for anyone except themselves.  All those years of trying to placate my ex, to make him happy at my own expense was worthless.  It would of been much better to take a deep breath and stick up for my needs.  Maybe I couldn't do that then but I can do it now.

[goldylamont]

I know a lot of people focus on forgiveness, maybe as an antidote for anger?  

I used to think that I could always forgive, but now I'm not sure. I know that I don't always have to be angry, and that anger turns corrosive for me. Sometimes it works as a swift kick in my butt to get something done tho.

Personally, I'm coming around to thinking that I don't necessarily want to forgive everybody for everything. There are plenty of people that don't deserve a place in my life, so maybe not forgiving is a good way to remind myself of that.  

lc74 the first sentence rings so true to me and the rest i completely agree with too. i think the word forgiveness is abused a bit in our language. perhaps abused is too harsh, but what i mean is i feel like the essence of forgiveness is cheapened as more often than not when i hear friends of mine or people i know saying they forgive this or that, it more feels like they are trying to appear to be completely over something when they are still processing.

for me forgiveness can take a long time, a really long time. forgiveness to me means--whoever hurt me cannot hurt me, at all, anymore--not even the thoughts surrounding this person in my head. and i've come a long way closer to this ideal. i'm so thankful for this. but i don't say i've forgiven yet because i'm not satisfied. i want to whole shebang, kit and kaboodle. i want real deal forgiveness where not a trace of remorse is left, so this is what i'm working towards.

the last thing you mention about not forgiving everybody for everything--well i agree with that in the sense that i don't have the desire or need to make the least excuse for this person. or to ever "wish her well". hah, nay i don't wish Krusty Bat___ well; but honestly i think I'm pretty far detached--heard so many stories about so many other guys and her the whole thought of "her" is more like an illusion now.

the most exciting thing to me is finding more and more other women attractive. and i mean that in a wholesome way. i had a 1 yr healthy r/s after BPDx and this was such a good experience for me, seeing beauty in someone else was very restorative. i don't think i have many boundary or codependent issues, but i think one issue i was worried about in myself was if i would be a cheater or satisfied in a long term monogamous r/s. i think i got caught up with BPDx--put on blinders and started feeling "safe" since i never really wanted to cheat, but now at least i know that i'm not that type of guy? i'm starting to ramble, this was about forgiveness and anger, right? well now i'm just confused