Cheating: Should I Ask?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Anyone who has followed my recent struggles with my uBPDw knows that things have pretty much been at a tipping point for a month or more.  She wanted to seperate; I did not.  Anyway, we went away together this past weekend, and it was wonderful.  We reconnected emotionally, and I felt closer to her than I had in years.  I even felt really physically attracted to her.  And we did get 'physical' for the first time in forever.  It could not go as far as we wanted, because she said she had a bad yeast infection.  Anyway, I guess this is what people call 'recycling' but it was so nice to be close again (or at least to feel we were close). 

Fast forward to yesterday, and she calls me to tell me it is not a yeast infection but that she has tested positive for HSV2 (herpes).  I have had cold sores my entire life since I was a child, and she was telling me I must have given it to her.  I always just assumed mine was HSV1.  My wife is the only woman I have ever had intercourse with.  Now I am so confused I don't have any idea what to do.  I am her third husband, so she could obviously have had it all along and it was just dormant.  I suppose I could also have the HSV2 strain, but that seems unlikely.  I am going to be tested, by the way.

She said that she had another outbreak back in the winter, and that the doctor had tested her then and had just not called her back until she contacted them.  I know others' experiences with BPDs and honesty are not good, but I really don't think my wife would not tell me if she had been unfaithful.  Especially when she is disregulated, she really doesn't care how much what she says hurts.  She is painfully honest.  But I have to wonder, considering the rough times we have had lately and how she has been talking about all these other men flirting with her.

What should I do?  I mean, we are just reconnecting and if I confront her and ask her point blank, it is going to ruin everything.  I also couldn't really blame her for cheating on me, since I have had no interest in so long.  I just wish if she did, she would be honest.  I guess I am too forgiving.

[downandin]

Anyone who has followed my recent struggles with my uBPDw knows that things have pretty much been at a tipping point for a month or more.  She wanted to seperate; I did not.  Anyway, we went away together this past weekend, and it was wonderful.  We reconnected emotionally, and I felt closer to her than I had in years.  I even felt really physically attracted to her.  And we did get 'physical' for the first time in forever.  It could not go as far as we wanted, because she said she had a bad yeast infection.  Anyway, I guess this is what people call 'recycling' but it was so nice to be close again (or at least to feel we were close). 

Fast forward to yesterday, and she calls me to tell me it is not a yeast infection but that she has tested positive for HSV2 (herpes).  I have had cold sores my entire life since I was a child, and she was telling me I must have given it to her.  I always just assumed mine was HSV1.  My wife is the only woman I have ever had intercourse with.  Now I am so confused I don't have any idea what to do.  I am her third husband, so she could obviously have had it all along and it was just dormant.  I suppose I could also have the HSV2 strain, but that seems unlikely.  I am going to be tested, by the way.

She said that she had another outbreak back in the winter, and that the doctor had tested her then and had just not called her back until she contacted them.  I know others' experiences with BPDs and honesty are not good, but I really don't think my wife would not tell me if she had been unfaithful.  Especially when she is disregulated, she really doesn't care how much what she says hurts.  She is painfully honest.  But I have to wonder, considering the rough times we have had lately and how she has been talking about all these other men flirting with her.

What should I do?  I mean, we are just reconnecting and if I confront her and ask her point blank, it is going to ruin everything.  I also couldn't really blame her for cheating on me, since I have had no interest in so long.  I just wish if she did, she would be honest.  I guess I am too forgiving.

[popeye6031]

Sorry to hear of your predicament downandin.  I have only been with my fiance 2 years but from my experience, any questions of infidelity have 100% been denied and extremely convincingly.  And, in fact after making accusations while these infidelities were happening, I was completely painted black and made to look like a jealous, crazy boyfriend.  Recently I found out from someone else there were lots of incidents of cheating.  I was shocked and of course it was profusely denied, even though I had been presented with evidence.

When dysregulating, she has said "I ****ed him" or "no wonder I cheated on you" but will then say she was just angry.

So, I am not sure asking will get you anywhere.  You might able to put 2 and 2 together in terms of the type of herpes you both have.

Good luck with whatever outcome or decisions are made.

[slimmiller]

Mine was brutally honest too, except about the infidelity and cheating and having sex with others while married to me... .Actaully the more I find out from others and the further I get away from the FOG, the more I realize almost everything she told me that I naively believed was in fact all fabricated lies. Mind you she was a Bible toteing church going girl till she developed a taste for foreign collage students and started chatting and cheating.

Sorry to hear about your predicament but my thought is do you really want to jump back in the fire? She is obviously less then honest. Her Dr forgetting to let her know the test results... ... ..

I have to honestly say when it comes to my exBPD, anything like that that she tells me is a lie untill I have reason to believe her. And yes I am VERY trusting as well, just not with her. I would be foolish to because I have done that too much

[downandin]

Her Dr forgetting to let her know the test results... ... ..

In fairness, she said the doctor tried to leave her a voicemail back in January, but her voicemail was not active.  This is true, because we changed cell service providers, and she did not get voicemail until a couple of months ago.

[hopealways]

Sorry to hear of your predicament downandin.  I have only been with my fiance 2 years but from my experience, any questions of infidelity have 100% been denied and extremely convincingly.   And, in fact after making accusations while these infidelities were happening, I was completely painted black and made to look like a jealous, crazy boyfriend.  Recently I found out from someone else there were lots of incidents of cheating.  I was shocked and of course it was profusely denied, even though I had been presented with evidence.

When dysregulating, she has said "I ****ed him" or "no wonder I cheated on you" but will then say she was just angry.

So, I am not sure asking will get you anywhere.  You might able to put 2 and 2 together in terms of the type of herpes you both have.

Good luck with whatever outcome or decisions are made.

Yes very correct (in bold) as they are master manipulators: more than you will ever know or want to know.

[Grey Kitty]

Reality can be tested, and I think yours should be. Specifically I would recommend you go have a full set of STD tests, not just the HSV1/HSV2 tests.

Knowing where you stand on that will help you make good decisions.

But I have to wonder, considering the rough times we have had lately and how she has been talking about all these other men flirting with her.

What should I do?  I mean, we are just reconnecting and if I confront her and ask her point blank, it is going to ruin everything.  I also couldn't really blame her for cheating on me, since I have had no interest in so long.  I just wish if she did, she would be honest.  I guess I am too forgiving.

I'm not buying that one. You can't blame her for wanting sex when you didn't have interest. Choosing to cheat on you to have it is completely different. You may be able to forgive her if she did. If you forgive, you may choose to get back together or decide to stay away.

But you also don't know right now.

Her Dr forgetting to let her know the test results... ... ..

In fairness, she said the doctor tried to leave her a voicemail back in January, but her voicemail was not active.  This is true, because we changed cell service providers, and she did not get voicemail until a couple of months ago.

I get the few month delay... .but did you just say that she found a couple months ago, and didn't tell you until this weekend?

[downandin]

She says she just found out.   I know she hasn't been on meds until now.   I picked up her prescription for Valtrex yesterday.

When she told me she wanted to leave me,  she specifically said 'if I stay I'm going to cheat on you. '  Wouldn't she tell me now if she did?   Our was that an admission in itself.   Could she really reconnect with me now knowing she cheated?   She knows if she told me I would probably forgive her.

[popeye6031]

.

When she told me she wanted to leave me,  she specifically said 'if I stay I'm going to cheat on you. '  Wouldn't she tell me now if she did?   Our was that an admission in itself.   Could she really reconnect with me now knowing she cheated?   She knows if she told me I would probably forgive her.

Based on what I have experienced, I would say that is an indirect admission of guilt.  I don't believe she will ever directly admit it as that would result in her feeling great shame in doing so.  It is hard to comprehend how their minds work.  Knowing it themsleves is not enough to feel the shame, it is having to admit it that envokes that feeling.

I suppose there is also the fhe conundrum that if she admits it to to you and you can forgive her so easily knowing what she has done, then, in her eyes, there is something wrong with you for staying with her.

[downandin]

I now know for a fact that she lied about just finding out.  I know for a fact she has been taking the Valtrex since at least October 1.  Why would she not have told me unless she had been unfaithful?  I have proof she has been taking the medication.  Should I confront her?  I am falling apart right now, as I type.  I thought we had finally reconnected.  I felt so close to her again.  Maybe she didn't do anything but thought that if she told me, I would think she did.  She had to tell me now because we were going to have sex this weekend.  God I hate life.  I am about to vomit. 

[HowCouldYou]

A couple of years before my BPDW started cheating on me over the internet with cybersex activities with random men and I caught her. She had a sore "down there" and went to have it checked out by a doctor. It was Herpes 2 and she had no memory of ever having an earlier outbreak anytime during our 25 years together, or during her promiscuous years prior to meeting me. She was told by the Dr. that it was not the first outbreak. This apparently is determined by the testing process.

I went to be tested and do not have herpes. She has not had another outbreak since then and I researched the possibility that she had it in a dormant state for over 25 years and I found out that it is possible, and many people have it and do not know that they do.

You should get tested to see if you have it. Then find out if it was her first outbreak or a repeat. I would require proof from the Dr. that it was not the first outbreak. If you don't have type 2 and she had a first time outbreak then you will know she cheated.

[downandin]

You should get tested to see if you have it. Then find out if it was her first outbreak or a repeat. I would require proof from the Dr. that it was not the first outbreak. If you don't have type 2 and she had a first time outbreak then you will know she cheated.

First of all, I'm sorry for my 'come apart' in the last post.  I'm just really, REALLY confused at the moment.  As far as requiring proof, my wife is a medical professional.  Asking her that will be just as bad as asking her point blank if she cheated.  We made real strides this weekend, and if she didn't cheat, then I don't want to mess it up.  If she did, I need to know, though.  I also don't want genital herpes, if I don't have it.  I am going to be tested.  As bad as I hate it, it would be better for me if I tested positive for HSV2, because she is the only one I could have caught it from, and I know the last time we had sex she had not cheated.  I worked late tonight and got to come here.  I hope some others give me some advice.  I will try to check from my phone once I get off, but probably won't be able to reply until Monday.  It is going to be a rough weekend for my emotions.  

[popeye6031]

I know it is hard, but get yourself tested and try not to stress yourself out too much over things that may never have happened. After you get the results, things will hopefully be clearer.

If it makes you feel better, ask her and use the fact that she mentioned cheatinng on you if she stayed along with the recent discovery of herpes as a basis for you question.

Good luck this weekemd.

[Aussie0zborn]

Asking her if she was cheating on you is only a good idea of you are prepared for her to say yes. What then?

[slimmiller]

She says she just found out.   I know she hasn't been on meds until now.   I picked up her prescription for Valtrex yesterday.

When she told me she wanted to leave me,  she specifically said 'if I stay I'm going to cheat on you. '  Wouldn't she tell me now if she did?   Our was that an admission in itself.   Could she really reconnect with me now knowing she cheated?   She knows if she told me I would probably forgive her.

I think thats VERY telling. Let me explain.

Mine told me one day that we need to 'take time apart' and I sleep on the couch while she figures 'things' out. What that means to a logical person is that we are taking a break and will try and figure things out. Not to her. She had someone lined up, had met him and had already been physical with him. Supposedly only kissing so she didnt have sex  ... .yet.  But heres the kicker. She has NEVER cheated on me in her mind. We were no longer together when she actaully slept with him. In her mind she was free to do as she pleased and she will go to her grave believing she did nothing wrong because she told me we were not together so now whatever she did after that was okay. Even though we still lived in the same house and the only thing that had changed, she and I were no longer physical sexaully. Although we ended up having sex numerous times after that

So even if she tells you she didnt cheat, that does not mean she didnt have sex with another person. She didnt cheat in her mind but to you, you may be completely devastated because to you she was not loyal and did cheat and she may be completely flabbergasted that you would even blame her of infidelity. (this would lead to you being completely crushed and she would get defenseive that you could even accuse her of that which would in turn lead to a fight) This would trigger all the sahme that she has buried deep and lead to probably another rage. The rage is herself preservation mechanism.

Her leaving allowed her to have sex elsewhere and it not being cheating.

I m not saying she did, but you have to be realistic. I have tried for years to pretend my intuition was wrong but I think if its there its important to give some creedence to it

Again sorry for your pain 

Even though we love them, in the end you have to look out for you

[downandin]

Just an update:  Found out the HSV2 test was really done in January.  So, she has probably had it ever since we've been married.  We have completely reconciled (or she has recycled me... .however you want to look at it).  So I guess I'm back to the "Staying" board until I mess up again.  Thanks for all the well wishes, life is much better now than it has been in a long time!

[DragoN]

 Downandin

if she didn't cheat, then I don't want to mess it up.

You can look at this several ways, if she did not cheat, it will not mess things up. The she really didn't cheat, if you can find convincing prood. Nothing to worry about, and given the circumstances and the horrible words she has used in anger, I would not believe her. My husband swore up and down he never cheated, but this was really so not true. He was an altar boy for all intents and purposes. Not true.

You may find it in your heart to forgive her one time, maybe, but what about the next time? And the next? Marriage vows are pretty clear. It's up to you what you really feel and believe you deserve in your marriage and what you can tolerate.

[wrigley52]

Hate to say it but they lie like a rug... .mine lied to both me and the person he was cheating with. Looking back I really wish I would of seen the red flags and ran like hell... .Good luck... .we are here for you!

[lonelyh1]

"any questions of infidelity have 100% been denied and extremely convincingly."

My UBPW started talking about a guy she 'spoke to' during the first two years of our marriage.  She never mentioned this until this year (year 10 of the marriage).

She said he only wanted to marry a professional.  She also implied the reason she was talking to him, was that I was ignoring her.  I did not ask her any questions.  And she stopped confessing.  The first two years of marriage was horrible.  Apparently he stopped talking to her after TWO years because she did not pass her exam.

There are three different numbers of his stored on her cell phone.  Yes it is still there  8 year later.

Well I finally asked her about it.  She flat out denied it and called me , jealous, insecure.  And she was crying during this out burst. And said she can not talk to me.

The next day she flat out said she only spoke to him once and never again. Except it does not account for the 3 cell numbers and the fact that they were in contact for TWO years. 

"But heres the kicker. She has NEVER cheated on me in her mind. In her mind she was free to do as she pleased and she will go to her grave believing she did nothing wrong "

I always trusted my wife. But Now I believe that she thinks she did nothing wrong and will not admit to anything. It is hard to get closure went the person will not cop to anything wrong.  She thinks it is my fault.

Confronting someone with BPD without hard proof never gets a confession.  Because they cannot admit they did something wrong. 

[goldylamont]

i'll just be upfront and say that after figuring out my ex was going through my computer and phone records, i decided to look at hers. while i didn't find any explicit cheating i did find out about an emotional affair that had gone on a few years prior. and i never went through her current cell phone (just couldn't bring myself to do it).

she flat out denied any sort of correspondence of any sort--lied like a rug.

i'm pretty darn sure pwBPD know what cheating is since (A) they seem to do it a lot and know exactly how to lie about it, and (B) they seem to constantly accuse their partners of doing it (often times while they are cheating or thinking about it). just because they are able to lie so easily about cheating doesn't mean they don't know that they cheated. it's just that they don't really care, b/c you deserved to be cheated on which is why they did it, b/c in that moment they either hated or loathed you or both and you got what you deserved. in fact in their eyes you don't deserve to know the truth, unless it's twisted and used to crush you. << well, that's one take. i think the other possibility is that they are still connected with you and feel terrible and scared to admit what they did. and this is possible too, but from other discussions i've heard around this the pwBPD was apologetic about things rather than vindictive, saying that the just couldn't help themselves.

downandin, you've confirmed your ex is lying to you. i'm sure you know the risks you are taking when recycling; is it worth the risk of possibly catching HPV2 from an infidelity on her part? if things don't work out in the long term this will be one more burden you will have to take on.

[lonelyh1]

iT doesn't mean they don't know that they cheated. it's just that they don't really care, b/c you deserved to be cheated on which is why they did it, b/c in that moment they either hated or loathed you or both and you got what you deserved. in fact in their eyes you don't deserve to know the truth

This is exactly what I think.  But the no proof is tearing me up.

[Changingman]

My BPDxgf would say clues, like she was on her own not there, think she enjoyed it. odd things that that didn't really mean anything until i discovered she had been having an affair for 6 months, then they all made sense. They are doing what they want and enjoying it. They have no remorse, only reasons why you deserve it. It's not cheating it's revenge.

[hurtbyboderline]

My exBPDGF could look me straight in the eye & lie without giving one clue whatsoever that she was lying. Cool, calm & collected! They are excellent liars! BUT, I have caught her lying by asking mutiple questions & confussing her. One time after I broke up with her I told her that someone told me about her being unfaithful. I mentioned her affair was with a guy who I thought would be her 1st choice. She said; "I would never cheat on you again". I said; "AGAIN? Well, at least your being honest". She said; "what do you mean'? I said; "you said again!" She said; "NO I didn't"! Anyway, also Google; about catching someone who's lying. One thing I read was; If someone says; "I would never". There are other words that are 'key' lier words... .Oh, one time she was talking to me on the phone while telling me she was pulling into a gas station. Well, I was sitting down the street watching her. She was pulling into her Ex BF's driveway! She got out & with the coolest voice I've ever heard said; "Talk to you later sweetheart, I'm going to fill up my tank & then head back to work. I love you"... .She went in his house for 18 minutes, they came walking out hand in hand, kissed & she drove off... .I could NEVER lie like that without giving it away by the sound of my voice! Oh, she'd also accuse me of cheating all the time. And I never did, even though I had opportunities... .  good luck