Help me - She wants to try again, but her strange actions terrify me

[Hurtbad]

Hello All,

God help me.  I wrote last week how my ex wants me back after she moved out of state to be with another guy.  Thier relationship lasted only 10 days of living together.  She, you will recall, is the exBPDgf who flew out to be with him only days after we agreed to separate for awhile.  She found out that this guys is a serial player who keeps files and secret videos of his conquests, and was cheating on her the entire three months before she moved out to be with him.  Where it gets a little sticky is that this guy was a member of a swinger type group that practices what is now called palyamory or some such term. it is a group of friends that party often and hook up with each other... .married or not... .every which way.  To keep her new guy happy, my ex agreed to participate in one such event where she slept with her guy , plus two others in one night.  She was preparing to do the same with him and two women when they parted.  Now her answer as to why is that she loved the guy and since she had an open mind she wanted to try it.  She now says it was and is not for her. My conflict is that on one hand, what she did when we were broken up is her business.  On the other, it raises questions about her judgment, stability and ability to be faithful, I fear.  the real issue though is that I cant get my head around what she did, or that she has continued to date men form this group, however monogamously.  I mentioned last week, that she slept with one guy two days before meeting me for a reconciliation meeting.  Anyway, my head is not clear at all.  God help me, I love this women so.  But her actions seem so off the wall, and downright scary.  She acts like they are no big deal. Try and imagine someone you love with three men or women on the same night. I am no prude, but I just can't get my head around it.  Help me see this more clearly, if you can.

[fromheeltoheal]

I recommend you ask yourself the questions that matter:

Was this gal meeting your needs when you were together?

Do you trust her?

Does she treat you with respect?

Does she care about you, not just what you can do for her?

Has anything changed since it was bad enough to break up last time?

It's hard to think objectively when you are emotionally enmeshed, but think hard on those questions and don't soften the answers.

My BPD ex used her sexuality to manipulate, and it worked for a while, but after a while cut the crap and be with me girl.  Or not.  She couldn't, wasn't capable, so she had to rely on her tricks and mind games.  I, and you, deserve better.

[Learning_curve74]

To me it simply boils down to what I want and value in a relationship. And this has to match up with what my partner wants and values in a relationship. If there is a big rift, then that is a problem.

It is perfectly fine by me if other people want to be polyamorous, but I only want to be in a dedicated monogamous relationship without any infidelity. I can care about her and she can care about me, but we are never going to be partners if she wants to be with other guys too. This is non-negotiable. That is my personal desire, and I'm not going to change that for anybody.

Now you may feel differently, but whatever you do, be honest with yourself because the man in the mirror is the only person you live with 24/7 and always have to answer to.

[catnap]

She, IMO, is showing you a pattern, one guy, several people, and "it's no big deal".

But her actions seem so off the wall, and downright scary.

If you do find out that you want to try the r/s again you should insist that she be fully tested for STDs and show you the lab results. 

As learning_curve74 said: "Now you may feel differently, but whatever you do, be honest with yourself because the man in the mirror is the only person you live with 24/7 and always have to answer to." 

[winston72]

Hey HurtBad... .so sorry for your pain.  Such behavior by a partner/former partner would be really painful for me... .quite crippling, actually.  Having been through infidelity with a partner, well, it is almost intolerable.  So, I am feeling for you.

The posts in response to your post are full of wisdom.  I would like to echo and affirm each of them.  May I also suggest that you take time, a lot of time, to sort out your feelings and make any decision.  The sense of violation from her being with other men, even if it was while you were not a couple, reverberates through us for some time.  In my case, I yearned to be back in her company as a way to soothe the pain I was feeling.  Time is your friend here.

And, of course, the answers to your questions are within you more than in the analysis of her behavior.  As the others have pointed out, the essential questions are the ones you ask about yourself and of yourself.  Those answers are the ones that will guide you to a sound decision.

[Lady31]

Hurtbad,

I'm sorry your heart is aching through all this.  I don't know anything specific about what my exh is doing THANK GOD, but he is quite the man w***e so I can imagine.

First off - the other posts are very good.

Secondly - you don't need anyone to help you think clearly - you ARE thinking clearly.  You are CORRECT - there is something seriously wrong with her behavior and that points to major issues underneath to allow such behavior.

The reason you are feeling uneasy is because you are trying to find a way to make it ok and reconcile this woman and WHO SHE IS/her moral character in a way that will fit and make it ok to be with her when she DOES NOT fit with WHO YOU ARE/your moral character.

You know that she is contrary to the type of person you want to be involved with, it scares you AND IT SHOULD.  You are not confused or not seeing clearly.  You are SEEING PERFECTLY CLEAR and hurting because you know she is not right for you, but you are having difficultly accepting that and are trying to make a way for it not to be the case.

I hope you are strong enough to protect yourself from this woman.  It will be more of the same until she is out of your life.

[winston72]

Ooh!  Well said, Lady31: 

"The reason you are feeling uneasy is because you are trying to find a way to make it ok and reconcile this woman and WHO SHE IS/her moral character in a way that will fit and make it ok to be with her when she DOES NOT fit with WHO YOU ARE/your moral character."

You know that she is contrary to the type of person you want to be involved with, it scares you AND IT SHOULD.  You are not confused or not seeing clearly.  You are SEEING PERFECTLY CLEAR and hurting because you know she is not right for you, but you are having difficultly accepting that and are trying to make a way for it not to be the case.

I have done this over and over.  This is such a good insight.  There is something in me that is Gumby-like... .I feel the need to adapt myself to a troubled soul... .probably in my attempt to avoid the pain of being alone, or without the connection to that person.  The internal contortions to make it all fit, when it really doesn't, is the crazy-making behavior.  It is not really what the other person is doing or who they are, it is how I react to it all.  Oh, my!  Much to think about today... .and it will be enlightening and liberating.

Thank you.

[Hurtbad]

Follow up.  Great posts, thank you!  Lady31, I think you hit it close to on the head.  One follow up to all:  My concern is not that she will want a polyamorous relationship with me; it is that her need to mirror brought her to it even  this one episode.  As well, I can tell she does not connect to my horror at it. 

BTW, thank you all again.

[Clearmind]

HB, if you are concerned - listen to your gut - its not wrong its trying to tell you something.

[fromheeltoheal]

Follow up.  Great posts, thank you!  Lady31, I think you hit it close to on the head.  One follow up to all:  My concern is not that she will want a polyamorous relationship with me; it is that her need to mirror brought her to it even  this one episode.  As well, I can tell she does not connect to my horror at it.  

BTW, thank you all again.

One clarification: it was her need to attach, mirroring is an attachment tool.

Clearmind is right: listen to your gut.

[Lady31]

Hurtbad,

I hear you - I did not think your concern was that she would want that type of relationship with YOU - but that she is capable of that and seems to have no issue with it within her own heart.

Exactly why you should be concerned.  I made a decision a long time ago to not date men that thought going to a strip club was okay.  I have had many MANY men make the comment in brief dating when this came up that if that was something I felt strongly about, that they would not do it.

Was that good enough for me?  NO.  Why?  Because I want a person who does things because it is THEIR moral conviction, not because it is mine.  When you are with someone who does or doesn't do certain behaviors simply because YOU have a problem with it - then when the newness wears off their "conviction" to honor those things is not always the same.  THEY don't see a problem with it, and their lifestyle and life choices have to come from a place of their OWN DESIRES AND CONVICTIONS.

It's kind of like - I don't cheat or not cheat based on you, what you do or don't do for me.  I don't cheat based on WHO I AM.

So - yep, answer still the same.  Run like all get out.

[Turkish]

Hurtbad,

I hear you - I did not think your concern was that she would want that type of relationship with YOU - but that she is capable of that and seems to have no issue with it within her own heart.

Exactly why you should be concerned.  I made a decision a long time ago to not date men that thought going to a strip club was okay.  I have had many MANY men make the comment in brief dating when this came up that if that was something I felt strongly about, that they would not do it.

Was that good enough for me?  NO.  Why?  Because I want a person who does things because it is THEIR moral conviction, not because it is mine.  When you are with someone who does or doesn't do certain behaviors simply because YOU have a problem with it - then when the newness wears off their "conviction" to honor those things is not always the same.  THEY don't see a problem with it, and their lifestyle and life choices have to come from a place of their OWN DESIRES AND CONVICTIONS.

It's kind of like - I don't cheat or not cheat based on you, what you do or don't do for me.  I don't cheat based on WHO I AM.

So - yep, answer still the same.  Run like all get out.

Yep. My pwBPDex and I were at the pumpkin patch with the kids the other day. We sat there waiting in line with two very small pumpkins and my ex said, "we could sit here, or just walk out... ." We probably could have gotten away with it, given the crowd. I looked at her and said, "get real, I'm NOT going to teach my children that it's ok to steal!"

After that, she found a smaller line, and I paid the measly $2 for the pumpkins. Unbelievable... .

As for the cheating comment, yep. Despite all of her accusations, I'd never do that to her. In the end, she did it to me. It's who she is. And now that she's "got a taste for it" will likely do it to another. Though it was obvious how it progressed in retrospect, and I could probably see her need coming on, I don't know if I could trust her again. She might turn like her father next time and be even more secretive and deceptive. This time, it was like her internally screaming for my attention. Next time, it might be different.

[Octoberfest]

Hurtbad,

I'm sorry your heart is aching through all this.  I don't know anything specific about what my exh is doing THANK GOD, but he is quite the man w***e so I can imagine.

First off - the other posts are very good.

Secondly - you don't need anyone to help you think clearly - you ARE thinking clearly.  You are CORRECT - there is something seriously wrong with her behavior and that points to major issues underneath to allow such behavior.

The reason you are feeling uneasy is because you are trying to find a way to make it ok and reconcile this woman and WHO SHE IS/her moral character in a way that will fit and make it ok to be with her when she DOES NOT fit with WHO YOU ARE/your moral character.

You know that she is contrary to the type of person you want to be involved with, it scares you AND IT SHOULD.  You are not confused or not seeing clearly.  You are SEEING PERFECTLY CLEAR and hurting because you know she is not right for you, but you are having difficultly accepting that and are trying to make a way for it not to be the case.

I hope you are strong enough to protect yourself from this woman.  It will be more of the same until she is out of your life.

One of the best and most educated posts I have seen in my time on this forum... .and it explains so much of the anguish I felt for so long, and also the reason that I recycled so many times.  Cognitive dissonance is an extremely powerful and in this case painful thing.  

[123Phoebe]

Yep. My pwBPDex and I were at the pumpkin patch with the kids the other day. We sat there waiting in line with two very small pumpkins and my ex said, "we could sit here, or just walk out... ." We probably could have gotten away with it, given the crowd. I looked at her and said, "get real, I'm NOT going to teach my children that it's ok to steal!"

After that, she found a smaller line, and I paid the measly $2 for the pumpkins. Unbelievable... .

Totally out of context of this thread, but I can totally see myself saying what your BPDex said as a joke, and it being my BPDmom who would reply with the "get real" comment, while I would shake my head thinking, does she not understand my sense of humor after all these years?

Not saying that that's what happened in your case Turkish, it just gave me pause for a moment, because I really would say something like that and I am no more a thief than the man on the moon.

Hurtbad, hope you're feeling better today!

[DragoN]

Just going to second Lady31 here. Excellent posts.

Her way of being is not in alignment with yours. When you fight that to keep her in your life, you betray yourself. She is who she is and has shown you that. You know who you are. She doesn't and will only mirror. But her mirror is broken, and that which she reflects is the mask you saw in the beginning. When it falls away the lack of Self will do whatever it needs to validate her existence which more often than not includes cheating. It will only break your heart and destroy your sense of self esteem.

[Turkish]

Yep. My pwBPDex and I were at the pumpkin patch with the kids the other day. We sat there waiting in line with two very small pumpkins and my ex said, "we could sit here, or just walk out... ." We probably could have gotten away with it, given the crowd. I looked at her and said, "get real, I'm NOT going to teach my children that it's ok to steal!"

After that, she found a smaller line, and I paid the measly $2 for the pumpkins. Unbelievable... .

Totally out of context of this thread, but I can totally see myself saying what your BPDex said as a joke, and it being my BPDmom who would reply with the "get real" comment, while I would shake my head thinking, does she not understand my sense of humor after all these years?

Not saying that that's what happened in your case Turkish, it just gave me pause for a moment, because I really would say something like that and I am no more a thief than the man on the moon.

You are right in a sense... .though her sense of humor was never "smooth." I am by nature often irreverent, and this drove her nuts in the beginning (sometimes it still does), though she warmed to it somewhat (my kids have it, love that about them).

Due to mirroring and her lack of moral center (solid identity, or whatever), if I had agreed and walked out, she would have followed my lead and thought nothing of it. There have been other instances like this, too... .as if she looked to me for a moral lead. As much as two years ago, I remember resenting her parents for never teaching her right from wrong. On the surface, she is, and she isn't an axe murderer or anything, but it's the little things... .and offhand comments she would make sometimes. No real conscience.