Just need to talk

[Stamp]

At this point I feel so lost and defeated that I don't even know how to go on.  My partner is angry all the time, I'm afraid to say anything in case it's the wrong thing.  I know all the 'correct' things to do, I've read the books and posts and of course all that is helpful, but sometimes I still want to Just crawl into a hole and disappear.  She has such a way of making everything seem bad and then making it'll be my fault and I feel like I'm at the end of my rope because I'm really scared that she's going to leave me. 

We can't even go 3 days without me upsetting her in some way.  I try to stay out of her way when she says she's in a bad mood, and when we are together itry not to say anything, but that's no way to live.  We both work from home, although we are not in the same space most of the day. Today she told me she was in a bad mood so I had a heads up and stayed out of her way.  She went out and came home with hundreds of dollars worth of stuff from home depot including a dremel and a chainsaw, both things that she had recently told me she would buy me as gifts.  When I saw what she had done I told her thank you and let her know how happy I was at this thoughtful gesture.  She immediately got angry with me and informed me that she had not bought either thing for me, they were for her and she really could not afford to buy me anything.  She frequently goes on buying binges for herself when she is dis regulated.

I'm not looking for answers, I just needed to vent.  I am so sad at this point I don't even want to go on.  I love her so much and I feel like she can't stand me.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[froggy]

It's hard to do but you need to not take what they say to heart... just like if a 3 year old when angry says hurtful things and has a tantrum... .Unfortunately we can't send them to their room to think about what they have said and done... .I've had easier conversations with 3 year olds after tantrums!

She is an emotional 3 year old... .you can't have a rational conversation when they are in melt down... .I think because they are adults we expect them to think rationally... to have compassion and empathy... .if your waiting for that to appear. ... it's gonna be a long wait.

[Changingman]

She will up the damage, everyday until you are broken neally beyond repair, I don't know why. Look back at who you are and why this is ok/ not ok... .push/pull... .these ideas take a while to process, seem ridiculous. They are real ... .Re read the symptoms, wake up realise what you are dealing with. Good luck !

[allibaba]

Hi Stamp



You're in the right place and we are so glad that you are here.

I remember very clearly wanting so badly to make my husband happy and feeling so helpless.

If there anything that you can do to take a break today?  What can you do to take care of yourself?

Have you checked out the lessons on the right?  ------>

Thanks for sharing.  Your situation isnt hopeless!  You can make it better.

There is a good video called -- before you make things better ... .you have to stop making them worse.  Check it out.   

[Stamp]

Thanks for the kind words.  I really do manage to take care of myself most of the time and not make things worse.  It's just that every once in a while I can't do it, I just feel lost.

Today wasn't as bad as it might have been.  I managed to have a lot of work that took me away from the house when she was home, and I spent some time with a friend this evening.  I just got done working now and already she's at me.  We have nine dogs (we're professional dog sport coaches and competitors) and usually whoever gets done working first puts the dogs out to potty.  Tonight she put her dogs out but not mine.  They all live together with us and usually all go out together.  I didn't say anything, I just put my guys out.

[allibaba]

I didn't say anything, I just put my guys out.

Perfect!  and excellent that you found ways to escape!

FYI I have 4 dogs (just pets) - 165 lbs, 95 lbs, 85 lbs and 20 lbs - can't imagine how you do 9!

[Stamp]

I didn't say anything, I just put my guys out.

Perfect!  and excellent that you found ways to escape!

FYI I have 4 dogs (just pets) - 165 lbs, 95 lbs, 85 lbs and 20 lbs - can't imagine how you do 9!

I think all of our together weigh less than your four :-). We have seven border collies, a whippet and a Pyrenean shepherd.  The biggest male weighs 40 lbs.

So far a relatively calm day.  This morning she was still in a bad mood and snapped at me about the printer not working properly.  I had told her I needed to replace the cartridges and she had told me not to so of course there wasnt enough ink to print what she wanted and she got frustrated.  I did not say anything in response to her snapping at me. Just replaced the cartridges and printed what she needed. 

I am again working away from home today so I was able to get out before she could find anything else to argue about.  Phew!

[Stamp]

So much for calm.  I got home late, 11 PM, and she was still awake.  At first all was calm, but then she brought up the dremel again and how, according to her, I was fixated on her buying me gifts, so the only way to solve this problem of mine was for her to buy me a dremel.  The next thing I knew, we were arguing, or, more precisely, she was arguing and I was too tired to use the skills I have to avoid being sucked into it.  Total JADE moment. 

Her tactic is to constantly tell me that there's no hope for the relationship and that she's given up, that she doesn't care anymore because no matter how hard she tries, I'm impossible to please, I always want more, more, more, and I'm never happy with what she is able to give emotionally.  Tonight I totally blew it and tried to talk sense instead of not talking at all.  I told her that I could see she was frustrated with me and at the end of her rope, and that it was not my intention to upset her.  I told her that it seemed like many of our problems stemmed from each of us misinterpreting what the other one thought, meant, etc. and that maybe when we were both calm at a later date we could talk about this.  There really wasn't any point to me saying any of this because she was too upset to hear it, I should have kept my mouth shut.  I did not raise my voice or say anything in anger, I'm not angry, just sad. 

I told her that she was the most important thing in my life, and working things out with her was my number one priority.  She told me that she had much more important priorities like paying the mortgage and getting all kinds of things around the house fixed before winter so we'd have a roof over our heads.  She repeatedly told me that she was done with 'all this' and it didn't matter to her how I felt or whether or not I understood what she meant, because the relationship was beyond saving and she had pretty much given up, that she was just trying to survive.  That I was a hormonal mess, a freak and a monster and that she just couldn't devote energy to the relationship anymore.  She asked me if I had anything else to say and I started crying and said that I was really sorry that she felt the relationship was over, that I loved her and that I would really miss her. 

She got really angry and told me to shut up and stop my melodramatic theatrics, that I was just being self-indulgent and taking her along for a ride on an emotional roller coaster, that obviously she had not given up on the relationship, because if she had, I would no longer be there, she would have thrown me out.  I stopped talking and she rolled over and turned her back to me, at which point she added, 'and don't you dare wake me up during the night because you're sobbing against my shoulder or crying into your pillow.'  I told her I wouldn't, and she said I had woken her up the past two nights sobbing.  I told her I must have been asleep, since I don't remember sobbing either night.  She told me that if I sobbed in my sleep she would elbow me awake because she was not going to put up with that hit anymore.

So here I am in the living room.  I don't want to risk making any sound in my sleep that will set her off again.

I know I should not have tried to talk to her, I was just too tired from work to think it through. 

[froggy]

And a little more of you dies... .I have been where you are soo many times in the last 33 years.

I'm so sorry you have to go through this... .I really feel your pain.

something came to me today... the times I stood up for myself... he backed off... .I also remember that the real abuse started when I took him back after he cheated and gave me an std... .he got physical. .more angry... untill I stood up and set a boundary. ... but I never really set a boundary on the verbal and emotional abuse. ... finally started now... after all this time.

Seems the more you try... the more you apologize. .the harder they try to break you.

Don't take as long as I did to work on yourself... .someone actually had to TELL me I have worth... and it was more of a problem that "I" couldn't see it than that he couldn't see it.

Sending you a hug... just remember her reality of you isn't what's real.

[connect]

Hi Stamp,

I am sorry you are going through this.

As I read your description of the conversation you had my jaw fell to the floor. Some of it was word for word what I have heard from my BPDbf - the giving up, the fact that I always want more, his saying I am the rollercoaster, if I cry the accusation I am faking the tears, the hints at the r/s being over, him saying he needs to look after himself now and he cant think about my feelings anymore. Yep pure dysregulation.

Had a bout of it myself last night too and am annoyed I also engaged with the convo. I know better then to do this! Sometimes though - we aren't perfect and we have to forgive ourselves. I was very tired and vulnerable and on the back of a week and a half of withdrawal from him so I can see how I did engage. Forgive yourself for it.

One of the ways my bf tries to get me to engage is to tell me that I dont open up or speak to him and THAT is ANOTHER reason that he is so unhappy and its my fault. Usually this is on the back of a request for "space" from him (do you get this "space" stuff?) I am often paniked by then so this one I fall for a lot.

[Stamp]

Froggy, thanks for the perspective.  I am really having a hard time right now because she is like this almost 24/7 but with these short bouts of being her old charming self that hook me in and keep me from throwing in the towel.  It's just a huge manipulation.

I know her reality is not mine, but it's really hard to listen to.

[Stamp]

Connect, yes she asks for space all the time, but she does not complain about me not opening up because she thinks I open up and talk too much.  I feel like I've slipped down the rabbit hole with Alice... .

[HopefulDad]

Been in this boat too many times as well.

Sometimes it's best to simplify things and just set a boundary.  I tell my BPDw, "I don't want to talk to you about this right now.  It's late.  I'm going to sleep on the couch."  In the past, she used to continue to push, turn my reluctance to discuss into "quitting on our relationship", "control the conversation" or other guilt trips to pull me back in.  At times it got to the point I would have to leave the house in the middle of the night.  One time she even got into the back seat to berate me further, only to hear me respond calmly with, "I have a right to leave this house alone.  You are preventing me from doing that.  If you continue to prevent me from doing that, I am calling the police." so she got out of the car.

I can worry about validation, avoiding JADE and other techniques another time when I'm mentally ready.

Consistent reinforcement of these boundaries has eliminated the late-night nonsense and given me peace of mind when I need it most.

[allibaba]

Sometimes it's best to simplify things and just set a boundary.  I tell my BPDw, "I don't want to talk to you about this right now.  It's late.  I'm going to sleep on the couch."  In the past, she used to continue to push, turn my reluctance to discuss into "quitting on our relationship", "control the conversation" or other guilt trips to pull me back in.  At times it got to the point I would have to leave the house in the middle of the night.  One time she even got into the back seat to berate me further, only to hear me respond calmly with, "I have a right to leave this house alone.  You are preventing me from doing that.  If you continue to prevent me from doing that, I am calling the police." so she got out of the car.

I can worry about validation, avoiding JADE and other techniques another time when I'm mentally ready.

Consistent reinforcement of these boundaries has eliminated the late-night nonsense and given me peace of mind when I need it most.

Hopeful dad - thanks for posting this.  I was going to say something similar but things are INSANE for me at work at the moment.

The other thing Stamp is that ignoring her isn't always the answer.  I found that my silence was sometimes perceived as acceptance.  Its a gentle balance between biting your tongue when necessary, validating the feelings that need to be validated and then

boundaries for abuse

disengaging from demands.

Does this make sense?

[Stamp]

I can worry about validation, avoiding JADE and other techniques another time when I'm mentally ready.

Consistent reinforcement of these boundaries has eliminated the late-night nonsense and given me peace of mind when I need it most.

Hopeful dad - thanks for posting this.  I was going to say something similar but things are INSANE for me at work at the moment.

The other thing Stamp is that ignoring her isn't always the answer.  I found that my silence was sometimes perceived as acceptance.  Its a gentle balance between biting your tongue when necessary, validating the feelings that need to be validated and then

boundaries for abuse

disengaging from demands.

Does this make sense?

Thanks, it all makes sense, it's even stuff that I know when I'm not totally exhausted.  Sometimes it's hard to put what I know into action, even though I know it's important to do that.  I try not to get sucked in but... . 

I guess right now I'm too tired to think straight anymore.  She used to disregulate every few weeks or months, lately it's been a constant.  We will have one or two 'good' days for every six or seven difficult ones.  I know she loves me and is completely devoted to me, that's what keeps me here.  She's aware there's an issue with her behavior, but obviously she's not aware of it when she disregulates.  She's had some really hard situations to deal with in the last year and that has just made her worse and worse. 

[HopefulDad]

My idea of simplifing things and focusing on setting a boundary rather than using the other tools is acknowledgement that I'm just not in a mental state to do too much.  Even late at night exhausted, I can remember one thing: Under no circumstances will we argue at this hour.  If I can enforce just that and worry about the rest later, I can live with that.  I need to take care of myself first.  My needs need to be met, too.  And if there's one thing I *don't* need it's bullfeces late at night.

Are you seeking therapy for yourself to at least get a better handle on how all this is affecting you?  My T helped with this.

[Stamp]

Hopeful dad, yes, I think I can manage to do that much even when I'm exhausted.  I'll certainly give it more of a try. 

I saw a therapist who was very helpful, right now I have not been going as regularly as I should because work has been hectic.  I realize that it's important to take care of myself and that seeing the therapist should be a priority, but I can't always work it out.

Thanks for all the encouragement!

[Linlu53]

Reading the posts in this thread sounds so familiar. The late night arguments when neither of us are in any shape to argue. He wouldn't stop until I gave in and agreed with whatever the conflict of the day/hour was. I feel I was literally emotionally tortured for years. He would let me fall asleep then yell and wake me up, again and again. He would go in to the other room and call our number and make the phone ring until I picked up from the bedroom. He would put a pillow over my head and lay on it. Kick me out of bed on the floor. Then laugh and try to make jokes about it. He of course doesn't remember any of this. I struggle with guilt as to why I put up with it all. He is doing much better these days but I'm still not good at boundaries. If we are arguing and getting nowhere if I try to leave the room he says I can't and follows me. I've never had the guts to leave the house during an argument. I long for someone mature and well balanced to share my life with. But on the other hand I feel I just want to be left alone. It's just too much work. We get along so much better when we're not around each other! 

[allibaba]

Hopeful dad, yes, I think I can manage to do that much even when I'm exhausted.  I'll certainly give it more of a try. 

I saw a therapist who was very helpful, right now I have not been going as regularly as I should because work has been hectic.  I realize that it's important to take care of myself and that seeing the therapist should be a priority, but I can't always work it out.

Thanks for all the encouragement!

If you are too busy for the therapist right now then find other ways to take care of yourself!  You are correct that its tough to manage these situations when we are exhausted.  Grey Kitty always tells me and others -- its like an airplane.  Put your own oxygen mask on first before assisting others

You mentioned that you are both going through stress right now and that her dyregulations are increasing in frequency.  Its important to note that THIS IS NORMAL.  My husband is going through a short period of unemployment because his seasonal job just ended.  Being unemployed is the ultimate stress for him so things are wobbly at best at home right now.  Sometimes I have to realize that ITS NOT ALL ABOUT ME.  Sometimes things won't be smooth and there is NOTHING that I can do about it.  I can only control my reactions and take care of myself.

Take care!