Hi, I Just Flew in From L3 & Boy Are My Arms Tired :0

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

well, i knew this board existed since i first came to BPDfam 3 months ago but i was pretty uncomfortable with the concept of what you do here.  i surfed this site like a lunatic, drinking it all in, and in my first days of exploration, i read this here:

Who Should Post Here? "This is not a discussion about the borderline in your life; not about what they have done, not about what you need to do to manage them.  This is about you, your interface with yourself and the rest of the world."  i really couldn't understand it ~ deer in the headlights, vacant stare... ."who would want to do that?  and WHY?"  hehe

so i made myself at home, very warm and cozy, on L3 ~ and bashing my xBPDgf (as well as  everybody else's!) was a wonderful way to pass the time and distract my mind and well, feel vindicated!  until it wasn't.  which happened a couple weeks ago when i bashed her so bad that i got a nice letter from a Mod telling me my post had been removed.  in retrospect, THANK YOU.  and whoever else had to read it, i apologize.  i'm embarrassed by what i wrote.

so then i was pissed () so i took a break from the site.  and in this last week have had a paradigm shift and i no longer want to focus on bashing my xBPDgf, let alone someone else's!  i became aware that the things i've been posting in the last couple days, things i guess i was trying to convince other people of, are actually things i either have or need to come to terms with myself.  things like, i wasn't a victim i was a volunteer, or... .it's not fair to portray all pwBPD as someone who cannot and will not get better... .or, how about getting invested in debating whether or not there is a "cure" for BPD vs "recovery" vs if they are [and will always be] just evil monsters... .and best of all, just what part did i play in the r/s, why did i stay, why did i love someone who was incapable of love?  in other words i'm no longer interested in helping keep myself or anyone else in L3 delusional about the situation.

so here i am, on a board that initially scared me... .and frankly still does a bit, to delve deeper, look inside, be more vulnerable... .but i'm ready for the next phase of my development.

namaste

icu2

[ucmeicu2]

well, i knew this board existed since i first came to BPDfam 3 months ago but i was pretty uncomfortable with the concept of what you do here.  i surfed this site like a lunatic, drinking it all in, and in my first days of exploration, i read this here:

Who Should Post Here? "This is not a discussion about the borderline in your life; not about what they have done, not about what you need to do to manage them.  This is about you, your interface with yourself and the rest of the world."  i really couldn't understand it ~ deer in the headlights, vacant stare... ."who would want to do that?  and WHY?"  hehe

so i made myself at home, very warm and cozy, on L3 ~ and bashing my xBPDgf (as well as  everybody else's!) was a wonderful way to pass the time and distract my mind and well, feel vindicated!  until it wasn't.  which happened a couple weeks ago when i bashed her so bad that i got a nice letter from a Mod telling me my post had been removed.  in retrospect, THANK YOU.  and whoever else had to read it, i apologize.  i'm embarrassed by what i wrote.

so then i was pissed () so i took a break from the site.  and in this last week have had a paradigm shift and i no longer want to focus on bashing my xBPDgf, let alone someone else's!  i became aware that the things i've been posting in the last couple days, things i guess i was trying to convince other people of, are actually things i either have or need to come to terms with myself.  things like, i wasn't a victim i was a volunteer, or... .it's not fair to portray all pwBPD as someone who cannot and will not get better... .or, how about getting invested in debating whether or not there is a "cure" for BPD vs "recovery" vs if they are [and will always be] just evil monsters... .and best of all, just what part did i play in the r/s, why did i stay, why did i love someone who was incapable of love?  in other words i'm no longer interested in helping keep myself or anyone else in L3 delusional about the situation.

so here i am, on a board that initially scared me... .and frankly still does a bit, to delve deeper, look inside, be more vulnerable... .but i'm ready for the next phase of my development.

namaste

icu2

[fromheeltoheal]

Yep, I'm with you icu.  It's a progression, and my borderline spends virtually no time in my consciousness anymore, and we're survivors, just like they are.  Seems like everything has changed for me, my priorities have shifted, developing real relationships with people where I can get the validation, empathy, support and compassion I was missing and longing for from my borderline has become job 1, and of course giving those things to myself needs to come first.  Before I met her I was pretty content to work hard, play hard, go 100 miles and hour all the time, fun and somewhat fulfilling, but I also have a long history of outrunning my feelings, and getting my a$s kicked and being forced to slow down and feel has been a godsend, though difficult.  One foot in front of the other initially, but it feels like my new life is gathering momentum, and doesn't feel so new anymore, oh, and I feel like I've got better direction than I've had in a long time.  Moving forward... .

[heartandwhole]

Congrats ucmeicu2!     You've now entered the tiger's mouth  

I'm glad that something has shifted for you.  So many of us come here and end up on L3 in anger, despair, and disbelief at what just happened, and it really helps to understand that we're not alone and that the behavior, however painful, was due to a disorder and maladaptive coping mechanisms, and not because we are inherently defective.

So, in the spirit of Personal Inventory... .what issues do you think need attention in you, in order to avoid a relationship like that in the future?

You're are among friends here, ucmeicu2!  

 

[Learning_curve74]

in this last week have had a paradigm shift and i no longer want to focus on bashing my xBPDgf, let alone someone else's!  i became aware that the things i've been posting in the last couple days, things i guess i was trying to convince other people of, are actually things i either have or need to come to terms with myself.  things like, i wasn't a victim i was a volunteer, or... .it's not fair to portray all pwBPD as someone who cannot and will not get better... .or, how about getting invested in debating whether or not there is a "cure" for BPD vs "recovery" vs if they are [and will always be] just evil monsters... .and best of all, just what part did i play in the r/s, why did i stay, why did i love someone who was incapable of love?  in other words i'm no longer interested in helping keep myself or anyone else in L3 delusional about the situation.

so here i am, on a board that initially scared me... .and frankly still does a bit, to delve deeper, look inside, be more vulnerable... .but i'm ready for the next phase of my development.

Welcome icu2!    Good to see you here!

It's funny, sometimes the things we see in other people are the things we should look at more carefully in ourselves. There's a saying that the world we see is a mirror. The flaws we point out in others can often be flaws we don't like about ourselves. And on the positive side, the good things we see in others are probably good things within ourselves too!

I'm going to gang up with heartandwhole and ask what things do YOU feel like YOU want to work on for YOURSELF? 

[DreamGirl]

Welcome to the hard part. 

things like, i wasn't a victim i was a volunteer

I really love this terminology. Such a difficult one to come to terms with.

[laelle]

I just had to say 

[Suzn]

Welcome to PI 

just what part did i play in the r/s, why did i stay?

These are great questions. Have you had a chance to explored them?

[ucmeicu2]

These are great questions. Have you had a chance to explored them?

hi, thanx to you and everyone for the warm welcome!

yes, i am exploring these questions, and more.  it's slow and painful.  my mind (superego?) keeps derailing me, to keep me from more pain.  facing my feelings and emotions and examining my r/s w/BPDx is so so difficult.  i won't let that stop me... .but... .uh... .when i push too hard, it feels like i'll shatter or implode or honestly, 100% honest?  sometimes i just wanna die.  i hate when that feeling comes over me, from being overwhelmed by The Truth of my experience and of who I Am.  so, slow and easy it is.

on the bright side, i have not contacted her for 8 months.  and she wrote me a long letter 2.5 months ago and even tho i've thought abt it [exhaustively at times!] i have not responded to her at all.  and for that i am so proud of myself.  a year ago i'd never have thought i could do this.

thanx again and hey probably once i crack it open you'll wish you'd never asked b/c i won't be able to shut up, 

[livednlearned]

when i push too hard, it feels like i'll shatter or implode or honestly, 100% honest?  sometimes i just wanna die.

I love the title of your thread, ucmeicu2

Just being so honest with yourself, that's going to take you far 

I felt shattered after N/BPDx. I think, looking back, the shattering is the beginning of it all getting better. Lean right into that implosion. Those feelings are intense, and they aren't easy, and stuff is going to hurt.

But then you lean into it, and start feeling that stuff, and then... .you get through it. You come out the other side and it's like, Hey. That feeling passed. Sometimes it even feels good to get it out there. Feels even better to face it.

You belong. You really, really do. You matter. You're worth it.

That's what happens when you take your mind off your BPD. Don't tell too many people how good it feels to heal otherwise it'll get super crowded over here. 

[ucmeicu2]

i can't figure out why i feel the way i do.  my xBPDgf initiated the r/s but i ended it.  so why do i feel so horrible?  why, do i feel as if i've been abandoned?  that's so twisted!

why did i stay so long?  i held onto hope for us for so long b/c i was not sure how much of the behaviors were mental illness and how much were alcoholism.  when she came home from alcoholism treatment #1, got off the plane and had been drinking on the plane, i felt completely deflated.  i knew right at that moment that i had to get away from her ~ i cannot/willnot be with an active alcoholic.  so in the morning i packed and left while she slept... .so hard, i cried almost the whole time BUT i felt strong, convicted, knew i was doing what was best for ME for the first time in a long time.  that was 2 years ago, almost to the day.  so, i was trying to break the chains of co-dependency, but i feel i've made very little progress in those 2 yrs.  so that's probably #1 thing i need to explore/work on.

i played with fire for the next year, seeing her occasionally, texting, phone, putting up with the push/pull/etc.  always hopeful that she'd stop drinking. i even drove her to alc treatment #2, just 5 wks after she got out of #1.  she said she was trying so hard, doing it for "us".  i believed her.  why do i believe people so easily?  why am i so gullible and naive?  that is something else i need to work on.

and i'm not so sure how important labels are but it's becoming increasingly, glaringly, obvious to me that i am as sick as my xBPDgf.  there is something really wrong with me... .what is it?  can i identify it?  can i fix it?  i feel like she ruined me.  she broke me.  i am not the same person i was before her.  you might say i'm just depressed, just in transition, and that may be true <shrug> but i'm afraid, really afraid, that it's something way worse than that.  that being w/her broke me and it's irrepairable.

in my most optimistic moments about the best i can say abt myself is hoorah i ignored her letter 2.5 months ago and have not talked/written/etc her in NINE months.  but good god i cannot stop thinking about her.  i honestly i just started crying now.  i feel so ashamed that i can't just "get over it... ."move on"  why do i cling to this illusion of a person, or r/s, that may not have ever existed except in my mind? 

my situation may be especially different than others here... .  i am married.  have been for 25 yrs.  my husband knows i'm bi-sexual, and that i was 100% monogamous and true to him until xBPDgf came along.  and honestly he is willing (b/c he knows i miss female companionship) and able (b/c he knew how much she meant to me and b/c he is so strong in who he is and in our marriage bond) to let me see her , have something with her, but i, i, i can't.  i KNOW she's bad for me.  i know she was good for me too, in many ways.  but i couldn't handle the energy of it all.

i guess my biggest concundrum is that i still entertaining ideas of her getting better and being able to have something with her AND without me being consumed by it (as i was and apparently still am?).  i just wish i could [consistently] adopt the attitude of "well, maybe in the future we will both be healthy enough to establish something again and see where it goes but in the meantime ucmeicu2 YOU have got to take care of yourself, love yourself, explore your inner workings and find out why she has such a grip on you; become a better you, eat well, exercise, enjoy life, be happy, etc b/c if you don't do that stuff then you're no good to anybody, not even yourself".  what is it about my inner workings that is preventing me, stopping me, from doing that?

why am i spinning my wheels?  i am i still spending almost all my time here over at L3, distracting myself with all the dramatrauma.  i have real drama, trauma, and pain in ME that needs tending to!

wow think i'm rambling and completely forgot my point, sorry.  but uh... .i think i feel better!     does it sound to any of you that i'm wallowing, ruminating, or moving in the right direction?

thank you so much!

icu2

[livednlearned]

Not sure if this helps, but I just had a big breakthrough realizing that... .

1. Loving myself

2. Being perfect

3. Being lovable

4. Being able to love someone else

... .are all different.

You might be deeply broken, but you can still love who you are, broken and all, while being giant flawed ucmeicu2. Once you understand that #1 (loving yourself) and #2 (being perfect) are different, then something very awesome happens with #3 (being lovable) and #4 (loving someone else).

I'm kinda skipping over the part where you're trying to figure out why you pursued her, wanted to stay with her, still think about her. Partly because right in your post you're explaining how rotten you are, and then right after that, trying to figure out why you are picking someone who can't pick you. You're conflating all the different parts, as though being broken is somehow this bad thing. Says who?

I'm a giant ball of flaws and finally realized what it means to love myself. Ta-dah! Not perfect. Ta-dah! Now, after figuring that out, I feel like it's a much different story about what it means to love someone. I had to do the "not perfect/loving myself anyway" stuff first. It also means I don't feel at all like picking someone who can't pick me. I want my love to match.

Anyway, maybe there is someone very, very significant in your upbringing who is super tricky? Me, I idealized my dad until I went through the dark tunnels of hell trying to leave N/BPDx. Down there in hell, I started to realize who taught me the dark art of loving an alcoholic abusive, frightened, manipulative man.

In therapy, I realized that the person who made this all so hard to figure out is my dad. It's like he did all this pre-emptive striking, telling me this or that about how people think, filling my head with dead ends about what it means to love someone. He told me he loved me, but that was one crappy definition of love. Took me leaving N/BPDx to figure out where I learned who taught me such a low baloney standard for love.

I don't know if that makes sense. I guess I'm trying to say that it took a lot of therapy to figure out that my whole model for love was a house of mirrors. So hard to find my way because my dad taught me that men who love you lie to you. And the way to get them to love you back was to pretend they weren't lying. Oh, and if they abused you, make apologies. That's the deal, don't deviate or you're out on your @ss.

Is there someone like that in your life? Someone super tricky?

[Suzn]

i played with fire for the next year, seeing her occasionally, texting, phone, putting up with the push/pull/etc.  always hopeful that she'd stop drinking. i even drove her to alc treatment #2, just 5 wks after she got out of #1.  she said she was trying so hard, doing it for "us".  i believed her.  why do i believe people so easily?  why am i so gullible and naive?  that is something else i need to work on.

Because we all wanted that fantasy relationship and letting go of what was good, really good, is going to hurt real bad and we know it. You know it.

and i'm not so sure how important labels are but it's becoming increasingly, glaringly, obvious to me that i am as sick as my xBPDgf.  there is something really wrong with me... .what is it?  can i identify it?  can i fix it?  i feel like she ruined me.  she broke me.  i am not the same person i was before her.  you might say i'm just depressed, just in transition, and that may be true <shrug> but i'm afraid, really afraid, that it's something way worse than that.  that being w/her broke me and it's irrepairable.

It can be very scary to let go and feel deeply, especially with grief. It is not sick to grieve a relationship, it is in fact the opposite and is a state of repair. It doesn't feel good at all though, to morn a loss and this was a loss. You cried while writing this... that's the depth of your loss trying to come to the surface. Allow that emotion to come, try not to turn it off. 

You say you are not the same person now as before you met her, when was the last time prior to this r/s that you allowed yourself to feel things deeply?

[ucmeicu2]

and i'm not so sure how important labels are but it's becoming increasingly, glaringly, obvious to me that i am as sick as my xBPDgf.  there is something really wrong with me... .what is it?  can i identify it?  can i fix it?  i feel like she ruined me.  she broke me.  i am not the same person i was before her.  you might say i'm just depressed, just in transition, and that may be true <shrug> but i'm afraid, really afraid, that it's something way worse than that.  that being w/her broke me and it's irrepairable.

It can be very scary to let go and feel deeply, especially with grief. It is not sick to grieve a relationship, it is in fact the opposite and is a state of repair. It doesn't feel good at all though, to morn a loss and this was a loss. You cried while writing this... that's the depth of your loss trying to come to the surface. Allow that emotion to come, try not to turn it off. 

You say you are not the same person now as before you met her, when was the last time prior to this r/s that you allowed yourself to feel things deeply?

suzn thank you for your reply.  i've been thinking abt your question and my brain keeps saying 'what does she mean?".   i think i've always felt things deeply.  

or do you mean in the way i felt things deeply for her (like love/connection/commitment/arousal/etc), for another person in a romantic r/s?  never.  absolutely never.

or do you mean something else?

[Suzn]

This...

i think i've always felt things deeply.

does not line up with this... .

 

the way i felt things deeply for her (like love/connection/commitment/arousal/etc), for another person in a romantic r/s?  never.  absolutely never.

This sounds like the first time you have been in love, or better said, completely vulnerable with someone. I could be very wrong here however if not, the first time we fall in love and get our heart broken it can feel like a death. And that is very normal. There is a grieving process that follows for everyone and this can be with any relationship that ends, though the first seems to be the most difficult. Does this seem to fit? 

[ucmeicu2]

This...

i think i've always felt things deeply.

does not line up with this... .

 

the way i felt things deeply for her (like love/connection/commitment/arousal/etc), for another person in a romantic r/s?  never.  absolutely never.

This sounds like the first time you have been in love, or better said, completely vulnerable with someone. I could be very wrong here however if not, the first time we fall in love and get our heart broken it can feel like a death. And that is very normal. There is a grieving process that follows for everyone and this can be with any relationship that ends, though the first seems to be the most difficult. Does this seem to fit? 

no i'm pretty sure i've been in love before.  i'm in my 50's so i've been around the block many times, running the gambit from casual encounters to infatuations to light dating to LTRs to being engaged twice/married once.

the thing is, i never felt the depth, breadth, intensity, total commitment, etc for any of my other love interests.  no one else has ever sparked my interest and 'hooked' me the way she did.  ending those other r/s's ranged from "bleh" to "moderately painful" but i got over them without the long term heart scorching pain i felt (and am still feeling at times) of losing my xBPDgf.

now as to vulnerability... .yeah absolutely i never felt so vulnerable with another romantic interest i guess b/c i never felt as close to them as i did to her; and never had so much ivested or riding on the outcome (ie thought she was gonna be my life partner).  she actually encouraged my vulnerability and i did feel safer w/her than anyone else, besides my FOO. (well, in the beginning and middle.  by the time the end was coming i felt she was untrustworthy and dangerous, which caused more heart scorching pain.

umm, did i answer your question?   

[Suzn]

My questions are simply to help you explore your answers to your questions.  The answers are inside you since your situation is unique to you and your history.  I think you did answer my question. You have never been truly vulnerable with someone.

Where do you think this came from? The not being deeply connected as you were here with your ex? In the end she was untrustworthy and dangerous, has there been someone in your life that was this aside from your ex ever? Someone from your FOO?

[ucmeicu2]

You have never been truly vulnerable with someone. Where do you think this came from? The not being deeply connected as you were here with your ex? In the end she was untrustworthy and dangerous, has there been someone in your life that was this aside from your ex ever? Someone from your FOO?

yes i've never been as vulnerable with anyone else before.  vulnerable?  yes.  but the absolutely 'roll-over-expose-my-belly' kind of vulnerable? no, not to that extent. 

my FOO... .hmmm... .  well, i always felt like i grew up in a normal happy family!  but, uh, when examined more closely over the years, found a lot of cracks in my story.  my xBPDgf initially came across as so honest, so loving, kind generous safe.  she even would say "it's ok, you're safe here with me... .let it out... i understand... " stuff like that... .encourage me to expose more and more of myself.  it felt groovy in the beginning.    so, my FOO... .hmmm... .my parents did some things that might classify them as 'untrustworthy and dangerous' in the eyes of a child.  as an adult i can rationalize it all... .  but that little girl inside me can't.

my mother was an incest survivor, who's 1st husband beat her and  impregnated her against her will w/child #2, her 2nd was found to be an injecting heroin addict after she married him - so she left him, the 3rd (my father) was a pretty normal, happy guy, hardworker, good provider, smart, funny.  everyone liked him!  no problems with him except that my parents split up when i was abt 13 yrs old and he remarried when i was 17. i was crushed by the split and remarry.

back to my mother... .apparently when i was abt 5 or 6 she became  a heavy drinker... .well what they call a maintenance drinker, rarely saw her drunk drunk, but she sipped it, what i recall as all day everyday my whole childhood and most of my adult life... .tried to kill herself around the same time, i found her, when i was abt 5-6-7 yrs old, not sure.  then, she did it again when i was a teenager (the day b4 my brother's funeral!) and once again, i found her.  pill OD both times.  horrifying to me.  abusive.  oh my god i'm crying how abusive.  i f4eel so sorry for her i understand her hard life was and it affected her but damn it... .it affected me, in turn... in ways i probably still don';t understand wholly now even tho i'm 52.

initially with my xBPDgf it was all good, just a new fantastic love interest... .  at some point tho my rescuer kicked in and i had the sense that i could save her from all her problems, not the least of which morphed into an alcoholism problem that resulted in DT's/hallucinations/etc if she didn't drink round the clock.  at that point i took her to a detox/treatment.  she came home, drinking on the plane.  2 months later took her to another detox/tx, but she came back more lost than ever.  (god i actually thought to myself "i liked her better drunk!"

looking back, i think on some level i may have been trying to rewrite history?  i could not save my mother but if i could save my ex, then in a roundabout twisted way i was saving my mother... .  or , waait, was i saving myself?  i dont really understand the psychology of it all.

[heartandwhole]

Ucmeicu2,

I'm sorry you had to go through that as a child and teenager, those are very painful events you describe.   

looking back, i think on some level i may have been trying to rewrite history?  i could not save my mother but if i could save my ex, then in a roundabout twisted way i was saving my mother... .  or , waait, was i saving myself?  i dont really understand the psychology of it all.

I think you are on to something here.  I know I thought if I were an amazing partner, that my pwBPD would love me and not leave, like my father did (physically and emotionally).  I think this is called "repetition compulsion," when we try to "make right" the situation from our childhoods that was so painful.  It's the 'this time, the ending will be the way I want it/need it to be, and that means I'm okay' syndrome.  Sadly, it usually ends up reawakening the original hurt.