High Functioning BPD and Therapy

[Depression = 72% of members]

I know that there won't be any "success stories" on the Leaving board but I wonder if there are ANY cases of Therapy success to the point that a BPD can fully engage in a normal relationship.  I have searched the internet and the vast majority of things that I have read from BPD people themselves is that therapy such as DBT helps to some degree or not really at all.  I wonder if the success stories are just whitewashed to give people with BPD hope?  Does anyone have any stories that involved improvement from their BPD partner in areas that were helpful to the nonBPD in the relationship such as eliminating cheating, actively engaging in the relationship, rage control, consistent empathy, etc. 

I know that many on here have had 20+ year relationships with a BPD.  I find this interesting especially since mine was openly terrified of commitment, loss of identity and fear of abandonment.  Did these relationships last because no boundaries were enforced or maybe because these particular BPD partners only suffered very mildly from the illness.  Thoughts?

[Waifed]

I know that there won't be any "success stories" on the Leaving board but I wonder if there are ANY cases of Therapy success to the point that a BPD can fully engage in a normal relationship.  I have searched the internet and the vast majority of things that I have read from BPD people themselves is that therapy such as DBT helps to some degree or not really at all.  I wonder if the success stories are just whitewashed to give people with BPD hope?  Does anyone have any stories that involved improvement from their BPD partner in areas that were helpful to the nonBPD in the relationship such as eliminating cheating, actively engaging in the relationship, rage control, consistent empathy, etc. 

I know that many on here have had 20+ year relationships with a BPD.  I find this interesting especially since mine was openly terrified of commitment, loss of identity and fear of abandonment.  Did these relationships last because no boundaries were enforced or maybe because these particular BPD partners only suffered very mildly from the illness.  Thoughts?

[bpdspell]

I know that there won't be any "success stories" on the Leaving board but I wonder if there are ANY cases of Therapy success to the point that a BPD can fully engage in a normal relationship.  I have searched the internet and the vast majority of things that I have read from BPD people themselves is that therapy such as DBT helps to some degree or not really at all.  I wonder if the success stories are just whitewashed to give people with BPD hope?  :)oes anyone have any stories that involved improvement from their BPD partner in areas that were helpful to the nonBPD in the relationship such as eliminating cheating, actively engaging in the relationship, rage control, consistent empathy, etc.  

I know that many on here have had 20+ year relationships with a BPD.  I find this interesting especially since mine was openly terrified of commitment, loss of identity and fear of abandonment.  :)id these relationships last because no boundaries were enforced or maybe because these particular BPD partners only suffered very mildly from the illness.  Thoughts?

Hey Waifed,

Are you holding out the hope that possibly your relationship can work in the long term if your ex commits to therapy?

I don't think there's anyone on here who hasn't had that hope. And I cant certainly attest to wishing that my story would be different from the others... .but I say this in tough love... .we have to be very careful about our motivations in wanting our ex's to be better. High functioning or not this is dangerous wishful thinking because we assume that we can live happily ever after with a person just as long as a person commits to therapy and takes their meds.

Not so easy.

There is this presumption that them "getting fixed" would give us the happy ending that we want but in reality many of us have internal work to do on our own. Idealization although real is the furthest thing from healthy but we often get caught up in the desperation craving of idealization.

BPD is a toxic dance that requires two partners. That means there's stuff on our end that needs fine tuning. We may not be mentally ill but many of us bring very damaging narratives to these ticking time bomb relationships... .and this requires introspective work on our ends as well.

There are success stories (even though I haven't read any) but they are few and far in between for a reason. Personally committing to pain and shame and toxic dysfunction requires years of introspective work and being in a romantic relationship will only complicate that healing process. Our BPD ex's need to do this work on their own without romantic interference.

Those 20+ year relationships we read about are full of self-sacrifice, walking on eggshells, and one sided unfufillment. Marriage length does not equal success or happiness.


It's very tough for me to write this because I understand the feeling of wanting what we believe was "the dream" and finding "the one." It's the feeling of deep loss and it hurts like hell. But delusion, denial, or what if scenario's will not ground us in the truth of the complexity of this mental illness. I loved my ex so much at one point that I'd run ten football fields if I knew there was a shot, pill or healing elixir that could brink back some of the most passionate, intense, lust filled, wild at heart lovemaking I've ever experienced... .then I'd do it... .hands down.

But accepting the facts about the dance on both ends... .is way more helpful in the long run.

Spell

[Turkish]

Waif- I could have typed your message myself. Our BPDex's sound very similar. But I have the same feelings you have (and probably a lot of us, or all of us have had at one point).

But Spell is right.

And I need to work on myself. As much as I crave intimacy, I don't think I know how to relate to a partner now... .at least being close to one, in a non-Caretaker role. Because looking back at even most of my platonic female friends, at least the ones where it approached the romantic line, I realize that I am fully wrapped up in that.

I am in my early 40s... .even thinking back to my one gf in high school... .I was like that back then! The Listener, The Empathizer to her slightly messed up family life, The Comforter. Of course, she dumped me after 6 months... .then wanted me back (at which point I moved on, so we hung out, but I just detached emotionally). Then a year later 50 miles away in school, hooked up with my roommate--- we all went to the same high school, though she was two years behind us. He was a big dork and nothing like me at all. Nice enough, but odd (at the end of three years we weren't really friends... .I grew out of it). So twisted, was she, though probably not BPD, just a little bit of a waif and immature.

That was 23 years ago. Here I am in middle age confronting the truth of myself. Due to our little kids and not wanting to jerk them around emotionally or give them attachment disorders, I realize that I may be truly alone for a long time, if not forever.

[KHC_33]

I agree with what both have spoken here. We do wish our ex (BPD) would get help and suddenly wake up being okay. They are most often the ones we fall hard for.  I remember my ex he just pushed all the right buttons to everything I wanted to hear. He was familiar to my past but yet seemed to be stable. He was going through a tough divorce at the time, and a child that wasn't his (wife cheated on him and got pregnant - he could not have kids) I pitied him. I figured I can put this man back together, he can give me what I had been wanting ALL my life. Love. Seemed like we were called by the stars to be together. I just lost my Grandmother (to cancer) She was my mother. It was a blow. We both got each other through some difficult if not heart breaking things... but then something changed after a few months. Once he knew I was his, the sensitivity wasn't as available, the priorities had changed, the manipulation had slowly crept in. SO many things were going on between that and having a new "person" I was like oh I am just being too sensitive. Within a year I had moved into a different city for the sake of my children (education. I realized how much responsibly was put on me. It was never equal or even all of him. It was ALWAYS me. Emotionally, physically, financially, everything. We went to one DR after another, I suggested counseling, he did AA meetings, I tried to be patience & gentle. Even though he was like a hammer and tear me right down and spit me out. The mirage of our relationship (I put a front on, lied to everyone how perfect it was, how wonderful he was... .I fought against the tears of my pain) Laid in bed asking God to take me home. I just couldn't do this anymore.

I even went to counseling to try and change myself to what he needed me to be. Really he didn't need me. I felt so loyal that I had to be there. If I left and he fell apart it was my fault.

Everything was my fault. I didn't cook dinner the way he wanted, the clothing was ironed, I didn't do this and that.

You have to accept the fact that the only way you will ever get from under is to go. You will always be the parent in the relationship. You cannot ask a 2 year old to give you the love you want. Same with BPD ... they aren't capable of it. Therapy or not. It will never fulfill or be balanced.

You can dream, scream, cry and wish and pray all you want. This is real and acceptance has to be given.

We have all been down that road. As much as it hurts... .have to see it for what it is.

[Waifed]

Logically I know it is wishful thinking but I went to a Halloween party this weekend that we both attended last year and it is breaking my heart.  I have been doing so well and I am all of the sudden empty and sad and I long for something that never really existed.  I am sad, angry all at the same time.  Setbacks suck.

[bpdspell]

You will always be the parent in the relationship. You cannot ask a 2 year old to give you the love you want. Same with BPD ... they aren't capable of it. Therapy or not. It will never fulfill or be balanced.

You can dream, scream, cry and wish and pray all you want. This is real and acceptance has to be given.

And this in essence is the painful process of acceptance. It's the road of resistance that many of us choose because waving the white flag is hard.

We are essentially desiring a "child" to love us; a kid and that's just not going to fly in the long run without some bitter resentment and deep feelings of injustice on our part.

I did everything for my ex accept wipe the crack of his butt. And if he could get me to do that he would.

Spell

[UmbrellaBoy]

Therapies like DBT tend to focus on the "dangerous"/violent symptoms of self-harm, suicidal ideation, compulsive thrill seeking, and raging. They try to teach better emotional regulation.

However, while these symptoms often receive the attention in BPD because they are more urgent... .they aren't really the essence of the condition, and indeed the heart of the matter is often overlooked in addressing the violent symptoms (which high functioning types don't have).

Really, the danger symptoms are just more like a reaction, in some pwBPD, to the pain and frustration of struggling with the condition. They aren't really it's essence, though; acting out like this goes along with many mental illnesses on account of the frustration of having them, it's not specific to BPD.

Borderline's real essential feature is a sort of attachment issue born of fragmented or unstable identity due to lacking the ability to sustain a coherent self narrative across time.

I'm sure there is some success, especially for motivated and self-aware types, but therapy does not tend to address this more subtle dynamic, the focus being on the violent symptoms.

[Waifed]

It seems to me like the only real way to treat the disease would be to teach the BPD mindfulness.  Kind of the concept that Eckart Tolle teaches in his book "The Power of Now" where the brain is basically trained to live in the present moment and not in the past or future.  It is basically meditation and self awareness.  I am obviously not an expert but that is what my logic tells me. 

[musicfan42]

It seems to me like the only real way to treat the disease would be to teach the BPD mindfulness. 

Borderlines tend to drop out of treatment so I question whether they would have the self-discipline to stick to a regular mindfulness practice.

[Turkish]

It seems to me like the only real way to treat the disease would be to teach the BPD mindfulness. 

Borderlines tend to drop out of treatment so I question whether they would have the self-discipline to stick to a regular mindfulness practice.

My ex is starting Tai Chi and meditation. What bugs me is that it took this blow up for her to start. If it helps her, then it will help the next guy. that hurts, but I have to let it go. The disorder will win in the end, because she will still be that tortured soul with the Big Empty at her core. Meditation isn't going to fill that.

[Waifed]

It seems to me like the only real way to treat the disease would be to teach the BPD mindfulness. 

Borderlines tend to drop out of treatment so I question whether they would have the self-discipline to stick to a regular mindfulness practice.

My ex is starting Tai Chi and meditation. What bugs me is that it took this blow up for her to start. If it helps her, then it will help the next guy. that hurts, but I have to let it go. The disorder will win in the end, because she will still be that tortured soul with the Big Empty at her core. Meditation isn't going to fill that.

That and the fact that she is unlikely to stick to it.

[KE151]

My BPDexgf was a high functioning waif type. She has been in therapy for 7+ years and has created some sort of awareness of her own issues. That hasn't helped her enough to be able be in so-called normal r/s's. She is still an outsider in her r/s's without being able to attach in an intimate fashion. She cannot cope when her two mega fears, of abandonment and of engulfment take hold of her. She has been learning for all those years but she still cannot control her emotions, they take control of her.

I have also toyed with thoughts similar to yours. I've come to realize that her lies and deception are so deeply ingrained in her psyche that I would be dishonest to myself if I'd believe in her recovering in my life time.

[musicfan42]

It seems to me like the only real way to treat the disease would be to teach the BPD mindfulness.

Borderlines tend to drop out of treatment so I question whether they would have the self-discipline to stick to a regular mindfulness practice.

My ex is starting Tai Chi and meditation. What bugs me is that it took this blow up for her to start. If it helps her, then it will help the next guy. that hurts, but I have to let it go. The disorder will win in the end, because she will still be that tortured soul with the Big Empty at her core. Meditation isn't going to fill that.

Oh my BPD ex had incidents in his life prior to meeting me which made him seek treatment finally... go to a psychiatrist and psychologist. I was "the next girl" so to speak and it didn't help me at all.

He didn't comply with treatment-he wouldn't take his medication as prescribed. He'd smoke cannabis instead at times because he felt that calmed him down and that his prescribed meds didn't. Personally, I think it was just an excuse not to comply with the psychiatrist's directions. My ex had a hatred of authority figures that stemmed back to his childhood which made treating him extremely challenging/impossible. He told me about how his parents abused their authority so I think he always had a fear that other authority figures would abuse their power and hurt him.

He only went to therapy when he felt like it-yet another way of defying authority only this time he was defying his psychologist. I knew that he hated his psychologist-I got the impression he felt she was uncaring/cold... that ok, she was doing her job but what he really wanted was a really maternal type of psychologist who would give him that unconditional love he never felt as a child.

He was incredibly demanding-seeking the perfect form of treatment instead of working with the great resources that were already in place for him.