Got some answers by breaking NC - Need help sorting through them please

[Supernova9star]

I know it wasn't the best choice to do this but I felt compelled to contact him.  It has been 1 month of NC and 2 months since he left.  I guess I felt like if I could get him to respond to my questions and give me answers, it would somehow validate to me that he does have BPD and I'm not just using it as an excuse for the failure of our relationship.  Also, I think I was hoping it would push me into the angry phase and out of denial/withdrawl.  I can't stand crying myself to sleep anymore.  I am not sure how I feel about this as I have yet to process it.  But I will recreate the conversation for you all since it was all done by text.  Keep in mind we were together for 8 years. He raised my daughter with me since she was 5 years old. We were a family.

Me: Will you please talk to me?

ExBPD: I don't know what you want.  I told you I have moved on.  We are OVER.

Me: What does that mean? That you have moved on? Are you telling me you have a girlfriend?

Ex: Yes.

Me: I don't understand how you could move on so quickly. Was it someone you were cheating on me with?

Ex: No. It was someone I knew from high school. We already knew each other pretty well.

Me: I thought you wanted to be alone. I thought you wanted to figure things out.

Ex: I am doing what I see fit for me. I am figuring things out.  I haven't had any problems since I left. So I think it was you that was the problem.

Me: I don't think that is fair. I know there was a lot of things done on your part as well. It takes 2.

Me: Were your feelings for me ever real?

Ex: I will let you be the judge of what was real or fake.

Me: You said you would never leave me.

Ex: S*** happens

Ex: It just wasn't meant to be

Me: So are you happy? Do you love her? I can't even imagine being with someone else so soon. My heart is still bleeding.

Ex: You are such a drama queen.

Ex: My feelings are none of your business.

Me: I am sad that you are giving her what you weren't willing to give to me. I am sad that you gave up on us. I am sad that you are gone.

Ex: Not sure why you are sharing your feelings. I am not interested in sharing mine. Go cry to someone else.

Ex: What I give to her is none of your concern.

Me: I still don't understand why you left me.

Ex: I left because I was tired of dealing with your s***. So I moved on. Period. Accept and carry on.

Me: So are you saying it is my fault the relationship ended?

Ex: You think whatever you want to think. We were over a long time ago.

Me: I didn't realize we were over a long time ago. I have been trying all along to make things work. Why didn't you leave then? Why did you lead me on?

Ex: I was on auto pilot going through the motions.

Ex: Is this conversation over yet?

Me: L**** misses you. She cries because she misses her daddy. You walked out on her too.

Ex: I miss L**** too. I don't miss our dysfunctional relationship. So that is why I am not with you or her anymore. I wish the kid could still have me as her daddy. That is honestly what kept me around so long. I have a soft spot for the kid...

Me: Do you miss me?

Ex: I don't miss you. You cause me heartache.

Ex: So is there anything else?

Ex: I want to go and not be contacted anymore

Me: When you contacted me last month saying you loved me and missed me, was that a lie?

Ex: It was chemistry not feelings. Feelings hurt.

Ex: We had something and I can't deny that so that was what I was feeling. But that was all that was left.

Me: So you didn't have love for who I am?

Ex: Love for what was left. That's it.

Me: So I am nothing to you now? You have no feelings for me?

Ex: You are my ex. We didn't work out. It is what it is.

Ex: Don't contact me anymore. I will just change my number if you do. Stop contacting me and be an adult. We are over. 

Ex: Bye

It seems like he doesn't even feel like he has any problems or issues to deal with.  He was so abusive and violent. So depressed and all over the place.  And he is blaming all that behavior on me. How can he just turn off his feelings? I don't understand how that works. I am not sitting here saying I want him back. I know it isn't good for me to be with him. I just can't seem to get past this incessant need to understand how deep this rabbit hole actually goes. I mean, was there ever any truth to anything I thought we had? I just feel like I can only accept if I truly understand as much as I can about this.  Then there is the issue of my "core trauma" that caused me to allow this to continue to be the life I lived for so long.  I don't know how to go about discovering what that is exactly.  I know therapy is what most people would say will help, but I am the type of person who needs to find answers for myself. The searching is my healing process.   I think I am a good person. I have a big heart. I am loving and kind. I am attractive. I don't get it. I mean, I tried SO HARD. And so many people used to comment on how in love he looked when he was with me. What the f*** happened? I feel like I am spinning in circles.  This truly hurts.

[winston72]

Supernova9staf... the account of your conversation is really helpful for me to read.  He is obviuls viewing all of the actions between the on just a transactional basis.  There is not much consideration for oth fators.  I ass hal;;kn vdruy directly...

[Emelie Emelie]

Oh Supernova I am so sorry you are going through this.  Of course it hurts.  That was a very painful conversation.  I totally understand how you feel, how you tried so hard, you dealt with his behaviors, and he left you anyway.  I felt the same way.  I just didn't get it.  I felt so hurt and rejected.  (Still do.)  It's crushing.  And I know how desperate you are to make sense of what just happened to you.  BPD happened to you.  It wasn't about you.  It was about his disorder.  Knowing that doesn't lessen the hurt but I hope it can help you to depersonalize it a bit. 

[PrettyPlease]

I just feel like I can only accept if I truly understand as much as I can about this.  Then there is the issue of my "core trauma" that caused me to allow this to continue to be the life I lived for so long.

These two things might be the same, according to some of the threads I've read on this site (like 2010's posts). I believe I share this need to understand with you, and I believe it's part of a lack that comes from our own upbringing. 2010 called this our "covert narcissism" (she identified it in herself also), that comes from a particular type of deficient childhood. We believe we need to understand the motives and strategy, the thinking, of the SO (originally the parent), and by doing so will be able to mould ourselves into the correct pretzel-shape to get them to give us the unconditional love that they don't seem to be providing. In other words, we grew up in inconsistent and conditional love. It's like sh-t to a fly for us, when we can't figure out what's going on. We'll stay to the bitter end, past the bitter end, until we figure it out. This is doomed, and addictive.

I don't know how to go about discovering what that is exactly.  I know therapy is what most people would say will help, but I am the type of person who needs to find answers for myself. The searching is my healing process.

Me too, again. So, next, I spent quite a lot of time on the Personal Development boards, and following up recommended books. I took some tests in both places. I learned a lot about what failings I have that stemmed from my early years. To me it's clear how these failings feed into being with BPD people and wanting to fix, please, and/or understand them. Three outstanding books that gave me a great deal of help were "Understanding The Borderline Mother" (Lawson), "The Narcissistic Family" (Pressman and Donaldson-Pressman), and "Reinventing Your Life" (Young and Klosko). I believe all three are reviewed/summarized on the Books board.

I don't get it. I mean, I tried SO HARD. And so many people used to comment on how in love he looked when he was with me. What the f*** happened? I feel like I am spinning in circles.  This truly hurts.

I feel very sorry for your pain. I know what it is like. But it will have a silver lining. You will learn more about your own boundaries, and about what you can and what you can't control in this world (Supernova or not). Your ex has a mental disorder. In BPD, you can't expect rationality. You can't expect empathy. It's not a balanced relationship. Truth and trust are not available on shared rules. The rules themselves seem to be completely thrown out the window by the other party. But only because there are other rules, at other levels. This is the silver lining: what is truth and trust to someone who didn't individuate properly at 3 years old, and who has no separate identity? If that person is afraid -- literally, emotionally terrified -- of not existing (being abandoned), they will feel justified in warping the rules and the truth however they must in order to get that fear to calm. These people cannot self-soothe, except by reducing the abandonment fear. And they can't talk about it, so you never get a straight story about what's happening. Both of you spin in circles. This will be hard to accept maybe, but I predict that someday your main feeling will be to be thankful that it's over, Supernova9star. When you realize that it's almost always insoluble and not everyone gets let out.  

PP

[blissful_camper]

This is really helpful to me to read as well.  Thank you for sharing it. 

I think we've all been at the receiving end of this.  In my experience, the more that I pressed for answers, the more abusive he became.  It was unconscionable.  It doesn't take much effort to create goodwill, but that doesn't seem to be within the realm of a pwBPD's thinking -- unless they stand to gain something from creating goodwill. 

I heard similar statements at the end of my relationship too - continued interest in me, then back peddling, and ultimately, deliberate callousness.  He's blaming you because he wants to make you feel badly.  Don't give him that power. 

I think that it's helpful to a point to understand the mechanics of BPD, and to sort through what you can.  You'll find answers to some of your questions, but if you can't, cry, get angry, go through the healing process, and then let it go.  I've come to a place where I accept that there are some things that I will never understand about what happened.  That acceptance gives way to letting go, and moving forward.

I asked the same question that you are: "was there ever any truth to anything I thought we had?"

I felt that it was safe to tell myself that at that moment there was 'truth'.  The problem is that one moment doesn't seem to carry over to the next in the mind of a pwBPD. That is currently how I view every event with my ex and everything he said to me -- good or bad. 

My ex was abusive as well.  He needed a face for his anger/rage, someone to direct blame at, someone to project at, and that just happened to be me during my relationship with him.  Before me there were others.  There will be others after me.  When you remove yourself from the equation, and go NC, they will find another face to direct all that anger at.  I'm very glad that won't be me anymore. 

[Ironmanrises]

I know it wasn't the best choice to do this but I felt compelled to contact him.  It has been 1 month of NC and 2 months since he left.  I guess I felt like if I could get him to respond to my questions and give me answers, it would somehow validate to me that he does have BPD and I'm not just using it as an excuse for the failure of our relationship.  Also, I think I was hoping it would push me into the angry phase and out of denial/withdrawl.  I can't stand crying myself to sleep anymore.  I am not sure how I feel about this as I have yet to process it.  But I will recreate the conversation for you all since it was all done by text.  Keep in mind we were together for 8 years. He raised my daughter with me since she was 5 years old. We were a family.

Me: Will you please talk to me?

ExBPD: I don't know what you want.  I told you I have moved on.  We are OVER.

Me: What does that mean? That you have moved on? Are you telling me you have a girlfriend?

Ex: Yes.

Me: I don't understand how you could move on so quickly. Was it someone you were cheating on me with?

Ex: No. It was someone I knew from high school. We already knew each other pretty well.

Me: I thought you wanted to be alone. I thought you wanted to figure things out.

Ex: I am doing what I see fit for me. I am figuring things out.  I haven't had any problems since I left. So I think it was you that was the problem.

Me: I don't think that is fair. I know there was a lot of things done on your part as well. It takes 2.

Me: Were your feelings for me ever real?

Ex: I will let you be the judge of what was real or fake.

Me: You said you would never leave me.

Ex: S*** happens

Ex: It just wasn't meant to be

Me: So are you happy? Do you love her? I can't even imagine being with someone else so soon. My heart is still bleeding.

Ex: You are such a drama queen.

Ex: My feelings are none of your business.

Me: I am sad that you are giving her what you weren't willing to give to me. I am sad that you gave up on us. I am sad that you are gone.

Ex: Not sure why you are sharing your feelings. I am not interested in sharing mine. Go cry to someone else.

Ex: What I give to her is none of your concern.

Me: I still don't understand why you left me.

Ex: I left because I was tired of dealing with your s***. So I moved on. Period. Accept and carry on.

Me: So are you saying it is my fault the relationship ended?

Ex: You think whatever you want to think. We were over a long time ago.

Me: I didn't realize we were over a long time ago. I have been trying all along to make things work. Why didn't you leave then? Why did you lead me on?

Ex: I was on auto pilot going through the motions.

Ex: Is this conversation over yet?

Me: L**** misses you. She cries because she misses her daddy. You walked out on her too.

Ex: I miss L**** too. I don't miss our dysfunctional relationship. So that is why I am not with you or her anymore. I wish the kid could still have me as her daddy. That is honestly what kept me around so long. I have a soft spot for the kid...

Me: Do you miss me?

Ex: I don't miss you. You cause me heartache.

Ex: So is there anything else?

Ex: I want to go and not be contacted anymore

Me: When you contacted me last month saying you loved me and missed me, was that a lie?

Ex: It was chemistry not feelings. Feelings hurt.

Ex: We had something and I can't deny that so that was what I was feeling. But that was all that was left.

Me: So you didn't have love for who I am?

Ex: Love for what was left. That's it.

Me: So I am nothing to you now? You have no feelings for me?

Ex: You are my ex. We didn't work out. It is what it is.

Ex: Don't contact me anymore. I will just change my number if you do. Stop contacting me and be an adult. We are over. 

Ex: Bye

It seems like he doesn't even feel like he has any problems or issues to deal with.  He was so abusive and violent. So depressed and all over the place.  And he is blaming all that behavior on me. How can he just turn off his feelings? I don't understand how that works. I am not sitting here saying I want him back. I know it isn't good for me to be with him. I just can't seem to get past this incessant need to understand how deep this rabbit hole actually goes. I mean, was there ever any truth to anything I thought we had? I just feel like I can only accept if I truly understand as much as I can about this.  Then there is the issue of my "core trauma" that caused me to allow this to continue to be the life I lived for so long.  I don't know how to go about discovering what that is exactly.  I know therapy is what most people would say will help, but I am the type of person who needs to find answers for myself. The searching is my healing process.   I think I am a good person. I have a big heart. I am loving and kind. I am attractive. I don't get it. I mean, I tried SO HARD. And so many people used to comment on how in love he looked when he was with me. What the f*** happened? I feel like I am spinning in circles.  This truly hurts.

In bold.

To answer your question... .

BPD happened.

Hell on earth.

I am so sorry you went through that.

You fell in love with a pwBPD.

A person that can only love you... .

In transitory moments... .

From... .

Point A... .

To... .

Point B.

And then the pwBPD... .

Gets triggered.

Devaluation begins.

The start of the... .

Rain of fire.

Discard follows.

The point... .

When Hell on earth begins.

That has an end point... .

When/if the pwBPD returns to you... .

To try and restart... .

The above... .

Which will end... .

Exactly... .

The same way... .

Again... .

And again.

That is what happened.

Hang in there.

We know it hurts.

You are not alone.

[patientandclear]

SN9S:

Wow, that must have been rough to sit through.  I have a few thoughts, though, that I hope might help to neutralize the impact somewhat.

First, the quest for answers from them is futile because they themselves are almost always lacking in insight into what happened, or if they have insight, it is so deeply buried under layers of defenses & rationalizations that you will never see but the faintest traces of it, which themselves will be quickly resented and denied.

They don't know why this happens.  Here they are going along having good feelings with someone, and then all of a sudden being with that person makes them feel awful.  The awful feelings are really there.  But they don't understand the mechanism, and it must indeed seem like there's a problem with that person.  Right?  It's not that illogical.  Until the pattern becomes overwhelming.

But even if the pattern is overwhelming, most people don't have the fortitude to go through life thinking there is something profoundly wrong with them that they cannot fix.  Instead, they prefer to explain their own actions in ways that make sense.  This is very human, not unique to BPD -- pwBPD just have harder things to explain.

Because they are trying to explain something that doesn't make sense, the explanation is going to be crude and hurtful and vague.  "It didn't work."  "Our time passed."  Or far worse -- devaluation that involves detailed descriptions of how deficient we were.

Also, they need you not to be upset because it causes great guilt and is an implied criticism of all that they are.

They have to make sense to themselves of what happened.  It is very hard to do that while acknowledging that there was a great deal of value in the r/s.

Writing this is making me feel compassionate toward my ex.  He has such a hard time with this topic, which we rarely touch on (I never ask him to explain why because I don't think it would shed light, but sometimes we do skirt the question of the value of our former r/s).  He gets all tight and tense, and so far, he has done nothing but validate that I'm great and he agrees there was a lot that was good, and he doesn't know why he had to end it.  I can see now what it costs him not to engage in overt devaluation.  Of course, the lack of explanation is hell in its own way.

The point is they don't know why and yet their feelings are so overwhelming it doesn't seem like they have a choice.  It's a terrible predicament for them & is going to result in some very painful storytelling.  It isn't reliable, you don't need to take it on board.  They just cannot process this on the same terms you do because if they did, it would be far too painful.

[wrigley52]

So sorry for your pain. I read the post and felt like it was my own conversation to some extent. I too try to sit here and figure it all out and I must resign myself to it wont ever be figured out they are too messed up. Guess its time to pick ourselves up dust ourselves off and start on us... .they are missing out on some wonderful people. We are the lucky ones we don't have to deal with their crap anymore.

Wrigley 52

[Accepting]

Thank you for openly sharing your experience about contacting them. If nothing more please know that it has helped a few of us on here. Reading your experience struck right to the heart for me. I could sense the pain in that conversation, I'd say most of us know a similar pain. Yet again my resolve is firm. I miss him no less but my resolve must stay strong. The amazing times are incredible but the pain ever so slightly outweighs the love unfortunately. One day I lay next to him thinking I could go through any pain or silence in order to simply have that moment/moments like those with him - but the reality is I can't. Repetition of that pain is crazy making in itself... .so deeply sad. The pain it makes me feel is like that you feel listening to 'Skinny Love' by Birdy... .haunting. The whole experience is to me, what I would describe as the definition of Bitter Sweet.

I hope you're healing a little since that interaction. My heart goes out to you 

[connect]

P&C,

Wow that is such a good post from you. Really does clarify a lot for me. This part:

They don't know why this happens.  Here they are going along having good feelings with someone, and then all of a sudden being with that person makes them feel awful.  The awful feelings are really there.  But they don't understand the mechanism, and it must indeed seem like there's a problem with that person.  Right?  It's not that illogical.  Until the pattern becomes overwhelming.

^^^^ yes. We are often understanding driven individuals - perhaps a coping mechanism from our childhood - where to understand meant it was a puzzle to solve, a distraction, a problem we had the power to fix when in reality we felt helpless in childhood.

This understanding drive we bring to our BPD r/s but of course as you say if the pwBPD's experience is "all of a sudden being with that person makes them feel awful" and they don't have the same "understanding" drive that we do... well they are two different frameworks. I find I am much more interested in trying to understand someone else then trying to understand myself - and that of course is not ideal for me and what I need to resolve.

Thanks

Supernova9star - so sorry for that text exchange you had. How twisted to hear those things not long after he was saying how much he missed you. Of course the "I miss you"'s will be back - as they frequently are. I have done a similar thing before as you with that conversation with my bf with BPD - I almost need to see just how bad the situation is (when he is periodically dumping me) - or try to push myself to hear so much that my brain will stop being in love with him somehow and it will make me stop caring. The problem is that my tolerances are so high for bad behaviour that I would have to push pretty hard to get to that point.

[maxen]

supernova, it was very brave of you to persist in that conversation, and to relate it here again. as with all above, i have experienced the texture of a conversation like that, and some of the very words too. truly you are not alone.

[findingmyselfagain]

Supernova,

My break-up was also very confusing. "I'm sorry everything turned out this way" was the absolute best I was able to get. Then it was, "You need to MOVE ON... .seriously." I could understand things not working out, but to be so vindictive? She allowed her baby daughter to call me "daddy." It seemed to be the family I always wanted.

As far as their feelings, I do believe it is real in the moment, and that they are far too hopeful and give us far too much power over their happiness. I guess we do the same for them. I'd also say I'm the understanding type, and these relationships don't make any sense at all. You can twist yourself in circles trying to find a signal here or a signal there, but it's really just dealing with someone with a severely dysfunctional relationship dynamic.  We deserve someone healthier, but many times we aren't attracted to healthy due to our own history. Lots of great posts here!

[happylogist]

Even reading the conversation was painful... .  The other motto of BPD people "you love me, I run from you", in addition to "I hate you, don't leave me".

[strikeforce]

I had very similar text convo's with my BPD ex in June when we split for the second time and then again this month when we split for the third and final time.

She told me that it was over, she was gone forever, that she was deleting my number and that I should delete hers.

This I did, only to be re-engaged a week later with her texting me, wanting to be friends etc.

You really cant take anything they say at face value.

[Waifed]

He asks you to leave him alone yet carries on a lengthy text conversation.  Nuts I tell you.  Not that it really matters but he now thinks he can have you back whenever he wants.  Don't give him the satisfaction.  This is not going to be the last you have heard from him.  Heal so next time you won't care.

[fakename]

@supernova,

1 - thanks for sharing that. i always enjoy seeing conversations cause its so easy to relate and every time it's pretty much how convo's went between me and my ex, and i guess its comforting to know that maybe i'm not just branding her as someone with BPD for whatever reason

2- took a lot of courage for you to post that here.  my ex would be just as cold and do the same 180 spins on a moment's notice, it was incredible. fortunately i'm at a point where i not only understand why, but knowing that it was because she was getting her fix from someone else doesnt bother me... .i just overall think its a sad disorder... .

to me personally, i dont know how to classify if there was any truth to anything i had with my ex. i know i was no different than any other guy giving her fix, and she said the same nice things to them that she said to me. i now would rather appreciate having someone who actually knows who i am and likes me for what i am, rather than just the nice things she would say to her object (the way i look at it is i was just an object to her - to fill her voids and needs and so easily replaceable and she could take whatever emotions she had and just transpose them onto someone else)...

i guess how i feel now is that i just feel bad for any new guys that do fall in love with her. cause they dont know what theyre getting into, and i know they are no more special than i was, and that no matter how hard they try (as i tried extremely hard), i'm sure she will meet a couple that will also try very hard, but no matter - it is fruitless and neverending.

regardless of BPD and regardless of my ex, i feel its important for me to look at things in perspective... .i am so grateful that while i go through pains in my life, they can be finite as dictated by me and are not infinite or never-ending or as overwhelming as what someone with BPD or any other disorder goes through.  i am grateful that i have my mental health and can make logical decisions and don't fluctuate with extreme opposite emotions on a day to day basis.  i also feel grateful i have the capability to improve my mental health on a much quicker and healthier basis than someone with BPD does.

it was sad things didnt work out with my ex. whom she presented herself as during idealization was like a fairy tale. but it was fake, nothing she said was real, and none of the moments we shared were real or unique or special.  i am grateful that maybe some day, i will meet someone whom i can have a meaningful and healthy relationship with - when the time is right... .until then being on my own is great because i learn more about myself and i appreciate being independent...

i didn't go to therapy, i found the answers on my own just as you said you're inclined to do. i came to these boards, i forced myself to get back into shape and i sought out hobbies and activities and friends that brought me joy and recognized me for me (unlike my ex, who i am sure doesnt even know who i actually i)... .those kinds of relationships just feel fuller and healthier to me.

thanks again for sharing that convo. i think i've posted a couple on here between my ex and i and it always does help to hear words from another BPD cause it helps with the understanding thing... .

unfortunately i deleted all mail i had from my ex otherwise i would've included a snippet. but yeah, after fights, she always throws all the blame on me even if its not deserved...

i dont know... .hope you just take it one step at a time with forward progress and eventually you find peace of mind.

[heartandwhole]

Supernova,

I'm so sorry that you had to go through that conversation, how painful.    I remember how incredibly hurt I felt during the last conversation with my pwBPD, it was like talking to a different person.

I realize now that it is part of the disorder, he couldn't act differently, mine even knew that he was dysregulated and that he was kind of "gone."

One thing that really helped me was reading about the beliefs that keep us stuck in the merry-go-round of trying to understand:

"Unknown to you, there were likely significant   periods of   shame, fear, disappointment, resentment, and anger rising from below the surface during the entire relationship. What you have seen lately is not new - rather it’s a culmination of feelings that have been brewing in the relationship."

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.msg1331264#msg1331264

Keep posting, we are here for you. 

[Bit Lost]

Hi Supernova

I have so many conversations like this myself I understand completely where you are coming from... .here is a part of my text conversation from Friday night and how he goes from one extreme to another... .

Ex: I'm sorry

(I ignored this one as I've heard sorry too many times to count!)

Five minutes later... .

Ex: I'm sorry

Me: Why?

Me: I guess you've been drinking?

Ex: I'm sorry for being ___ to you

Me: Don't know what I can say really

Ex: I've had a couple

Me: It's for the best we aren't in each other's lives anymore. I won't get over the things you said to me last week.

Me: You said you had a couple last week and you were steaming!

Ex: I'm ok I understand I said horrible stuff I didn't mean it I'm not heartless.

Me: You will never understand your words are destroying I've been in your life for almost three years and you don't even take that into account and then you said that to me last week I just think to myself there's no point in me whatsoever even trying anymore. I've definitely given up now.

Ex: Youre so unforgiving human that's why it hasn't worked because you just never let things go.

Me: I've let everything go it's you! You bring it up!

Ex: If you seriously wanted this to work you would've asked me to move in ages ago I've wasted my time and I've been used.

Me: Ok

Me: Leave me alone ok?

Ex: All you wanted is to punish me and you have made me suffer for ages.

Me: Please leave me alone

Ex: I'm convinced you just want me dead

Me: No I want you to go away and be happy

Ex: thanks for trying to kill my soul but I won't let you

Me: I'm not trying to

Ex: You are twisted take a look at your actions I don't deserve your hell

Me: Night (name)

Ex: so evil wish you were human

Ex: All I wanted was someone with a exit heart but I go you who is bitter and thinks I'm the bad one

Me: Ok

Ex: You could have been nice

Me: after the things you said last week that's not happening you meant what you said

Me: Leave me alone I want you to be happy you need that too.

Ex: Why are you so vile?

Ex: You didn't know I got arrested did you?

Me: (name) you hide so much it doesn't surprise me

Ex: Call me?

Did I call him? Did I hell! This is him all over he goes from one extreme to another. These texts were tame to what I usually get. I've not heard much from him since then either I asked him why he was arrested and he told me he made it up but I'm not too sure he can be extremely destructive.

[fakename]

@bitlost,

hahah... .your convo is def. similar to ones i've had as well...

there are the cries for help, the attempts for attention, the mis-placing of blame... .i've had it all...

i also know how you feel in their words destroying me... .my ex's words scarred me for a while and i think there are still some remnants there... .eventually i'll work past that as well... .

it also really annoyed me how my ex would always say i bring up the past and never let things go when that just wasn't the case at all and it was always her or her actions that brought up the past... .

i also remember many suicide threats or the time she grabbed a whole bunch of tylenol and was running away to swallow them all or whatever... .its like just trying to go to the extreme in manipulation to get what she wanted... .and then when she got it, its like she didnt want it any more after a day or so... .

on the other side, i should be fair to myself and i can recall a convo or 2 in which i was a mess and i was telling her to stay away and then the next day asking to work it out with her... .i dont know if i caught some fleas or if i have some degree of BPD myself, or maybe it was just being trained into a new type of normal... .but i should probably re-visit why i was so desperate or chaotic... .

anyway, thanks for sharing that bit lost

[DownandOut]

SN9S:

Wow, that must have been rough to sit through.  I have a few thoughts, though, that I hope might help to neutralize the impact somewhat.

First, the quest for answers from them is futile because they themselves are almost always lacking in insight into what happened, or if they have insight, it is so deeply buried under layers of defenses & rationalizations that you will never see but the faintest traces of it, which themselves will be quickly resented and denied.

They don't know why this happens.  Here they are going along having good feelings with someone, and then all of a sudden being with that person makes them feel awful.  The awful feelings are really there.  But they don't understand the mechanism, and it must indeed seem like there's a problem with that person.   Right?  It's not that illogical.  Until the pattern becomes overwhelming.

But even if the pattern is overwhelming, most people don't have the fortitude to go through life thinking there is something profoundly wrong with them that they cannot fix.  Instead, they prefer to explain their own actions in ways that make sense.  This is very human, not unique to BPD -- pwBPD just have harder things to explain.

Because they are trying to explain something that doesn't make sense, the explanation is going to be crude and hurtful and vague.  "It didn't work."  "Our time passed."  Or far worse -- devaluation that involves detailed descriptions of how deficient we were.

Also, they need you not to be upset because it causes great guilt and is an implied criticism of all that they are.

They have to make sense to themselves of what happened.  It is very hard to do that while acknowledging that there was a great deal of value in the r/s.

Writing this is making me feel compassionate toward my ex.  He has such a hard time with this topic, which we rarely touch on (I never ask him to explain why because I don't think it would shed light, but sometimes we do skirt the question of the value of our former r/s).  He gets all tight and tense, and so far, he has done nothing but validate that I'm great and he agrees there was a lot that was good, and he doesn't know why he had to end it.  I can see now what it costs him not to engage in overt devaluation.  Of course, the lack of explanation is hell in its own way.

The point is they don't know why and yet their feelings are so overwhelming it doesn't seem like they have a choice.  It's a terrible predicament for them & is going to result in some very painful storytelling.  It isn't reliable, you don't need to take it on board.  They just cannot process this on the same terms you do because if they did, it would be far too painful.

I believe this is spot on! In bold: One of the things that made me feel so crazy about the relationship with my uBPDexgf was that we seemed to be like two children in love and we were so perfect for each other (honeymoon/idealization), but something would change so drastically that it threw me for the biggest loop of my life. In devaluation, my uBPDexgf literally treated me like I repulsed her - even before I knew about BPD I asked her so many times what turned her off so much about me and she would respond "nothing." At one point we were sitting on a balcony in one of the most romantic cities in Europe and I tried to hold her hand and she basically pulled away from me as if I was the most disgusting creature ever to walk the earth. It's an extremely brutal feeling.

It's true she didn't understand the mechanism that would make her feel this way. I take a lot of what she said with a grain of salt, but every time I would press for answers she would respond that she didn't understand why she felt that way and she hated herself for feeling that way - I believed and believe her, one of the few truths she told. This is why closure is so difficult for all of us in these types of relationships, it's like trying to get answers from a brick wall.

[Bit Lost]

Thanks Fakename... .I have 100s of conversations like that believe me as I don't doubt many of the members here do too.

The conversation I was referring to as in "last week" was much worse much more nasty names and it's always when I stick up for myself too... .it's like they don't like you calling them out on their bullhit and I guess this is when they start to panic that they will be abandoned.

You'll love this... And this is just part of it... .

Ex: why are you being a complete c**t to me?

Me: I'm not

Ex: Were you born that way? Just natural to you?

Me:I told you the other day I've had enough and I have (name ). I refuse to let you do this to me anymore

Ex: Do what? You're the one that starts it all

Ex: Speak the truth to you about who you are?

Me: How I am?

Me: not doing this anymore ok?

Ex: Yea

Ex :Good just ___ off and die then leave me the ___ alone

Ex: Never email me again I hate your guts

Ex: Never have liked you

Me: Thanks. Then why feel the need to be in my life then if you've never liked me and you hate my guts?

Ex: Dont know must have been desperate

Ex: And stupid

Ha! I sit and wonder why the hell I let him get away with that. I didn't even know until a few days ago that this illness even existed I just thought he suffered from anxiety and depression! But I am learning right now just what he is... .I'm not having this for myself anymore, just like Supanova I'm a good woman with a good heart, ok I have flaws, I have never made out to anyone that I am perfect but who is?

[fakename]

@bit lost,

thats some rough stuff and i can relate... .

its terrible that you allowed him to call you such things, and its terrible i allowed my ex to do the same... .my mind was just so clouded... .

i really wish i had some convos to share but i deleted them all... kinda wish i didnt now... .

i think part of it for me was thinking that it was just a bad passing moment and it wasnt the real her... .i thought the real her was the mask she'd put on to reel me in... .

the oddest thing of it is when i went on other dates, i would feel so amazed at how other girls would treat me, or how they wouldnt get upset if i had to reschedule something, and also i wouldnt feel like i did something devastatingly wrong if i was tired and wanted to reschedule (i remember always feeling like i let my ex down or abandoned her when that happened)

but going back to your convo, it seems like all the things he's yelling at you, he's yelling at himself... .which i def. got from my ex... .i remember after she was cheating on my with one guy, she all of a sudden started yelling at me that i was material and so superficial - and pretty much everyone that knows me that is not the case at all... .i was just be so amazed at how this person can think of me this way, what am i doing wrong? i dont know... .my mind was just so clouded and hazed and i didnt look at things clearly or rationally... .i think i disguised and ignored a lot of things cause of this idea of love i adapted from her... .

i'm def. not perfect either, but its funny how my ex expected them from me... .she would always say i accept you for who you are and youre perfect the way you are, and then just say and do things to prove to the contrary... .i remember thinking during my recovery how i could never take her words to mean anything... .actions always prove it all... .

[goldylamont]

thank you guys for sharing the messages. i never had any text wars with the ex but basically had the same things said in phone conversations.

it's my belief that once the r/s is over, really really over, then the only reason the ex has to contact you is to shift the power dynamic back in their favor. this is natural i believe for anyone, BPD or not. even with a breakup between two healthy people, both parties naturally want to appear as if they are happy ever after, and there is some posturing involved. having a BPDx though i feel takes this to the extreme. rather than some posturing they may likely start a whole new r/s with the rebound, do this much faster than normal and will do everything in their power to punish you, devalue you both privately and publicly. "Winning" for them isn't complete unless you are completely destroyed in the process.

problems start to arise when it dawns on them that they are still unhappy even though you are not in the equation anymore. so this is when they start reaching out to you with the sweet talk, so that they can feel the pleasure of your attention, and the pleasure of devaluing you further. as time goes on and they have someone else to devalue then there's less of a need to do it to you...

[fakename]

alright so i'm sorry i'm seemingly hogging this thread... .i'll make this one of my last posts... .

@goldylamont... .nice to see you again, wonder if you remember me... .


i think there may be some differences in BPD's with what you mentioned... .

my ex would try to pretty hard to try to improve herself (while not entertaining the idea of BPD), but she would meditate a lot and venture into spiritual growth) so i think improvement came in that she wouldnt sleep with someone else while we were 'together' any more... .she would just break up with me and run back to her other ex, or try to contact him while we were 'together' ... .haha... .maybe i'm making an excuse for her... .

but i know for the past year or 1.5 years, she would only contact me when she was broken up with someone... .i think in reality i was really just a rebound all those years... .and she never contacted me to brag or pretend like she was doing great... .on 2nd thought i do remember she would pretend like she was doing great and improving and then after we got to talking she lets on that she's still heartbroken over an ex or something... .i dont know... hard to make sense of it all...

i do kinda believe in the do everything in their power to punish me... .i noticed my ex was all about the eye for an eye mentality, and i think it makes her feel better to hop into a relationship and tell herself whatever she's doing is because she really like the guy or is in love... .

i dont know if she wanted me to be completely destroyed... .sometimes it seems like that in how she left me off with me either asking to try again or just pleading for her to not pop up as she always does after a period of time... .she would promise and assure me that she wouldnt, but it never failed that down the road she'd pop up... .i really believe i was nothing more than a rebound guy for her to use... .thats probably why she never contacted me while she was actually with someone else... so i guess thats why i say BPD's can vary with that... .i also think i kinda believe when she finds a guy who had what she actually wanted (big muscles, well off financially, -both of which are understandable), then she would try not to make the same mistakes as in the past... .i dont think i ever got that good treatment - if we had an argument, the same night or day after she'd be on her dating site trying to find my replacement... .thats why i never understood how she could say she really wanted to make it work...

kinda stopped trying to figure it out as obsessively as i did in the beginning, but it sometimes still does spark my curiosity... .just an interesting relationship we had (not in a good way), and also an interesting disorder and also just fascinating the directions the mind can go in... .

again, sorry to sorta hog this thread...

[Bit Lost]

I just wish I knew about this illness months and months ago and found this message board because I would have been long gone. I thought I could make him happy again as I knew he had been through a lot with his anxiety and depression but we have been going through the same cycle for well over a year now and I know it's not healthy myself. I can't ever save him. He has too many problems. Would you believe I've not even seen him in well over a year. We had a long distance relationship you see we did spend a lot of time together beforehand but he got a job which meant we really couldn't spend time together (the job didn't last long) and this was when the cycle started happening. He would put off coming to see me because of a million and one excuses, he was ashamed, he couldn't face me, he was too depressed to get on the train, he was ill... .the list is endless. Even up until two weeks ago I was asking him to come and spend time with me but it's hopeless I know that now. I won't see him again yet I've been here all this time for him to support him because I loved him and he just throws absolutely everything in my face. Time for me to move on, heal and be me again... .

[fakename]

@bit lost,

i hear that. wish i knew about it years ago, might have helped me from sinking as far as i did and prevented a lot of bad things... .but i'm closer to getting everything back on track and all in all its been a great journey and a really great year full of backpacking the adirondacks, mud runs, triathlons, cycling, rock climbing, and this winter ice climbing and skiing... .all things i never would have indulged in or gotten interested in if i was still living my life around my ex... .or even if i didnt work out my own issues and sought to refine myself and grow internally. i think i do have to thank her for helping me sink and bottoming out, and more importantly have to thank myself for having the courage to get up and these boards for supporting me.  all in all 2013 has been great even though it started out with our breakup in february and a hellish 2 months of recyling prior to that... .i just think if i continue on, 2014 will be even greater.

i hear you on trying to make them happy... .i think it felt nice to me to have to always console her and worry about her issues because that gave me a 'valid' excuse to ignore my own issues. i think ive learned from that observation of myself and even her - it's a good chance that people who are so eager to help others are usually running from their own problems... .

i also get how it seems like they threw everything in our faces... .i could write a very long list of what i put up with and all the things - small and grand i would do for my ex... .to no avail, and it sucks not being appreciated... .i'd rather save all that effort for someone who knows how to appreciate and reciprocate instead of constantly trying to fill a bottomless pit... i think it was a big step for me to recognize that i deserve that, and i know i want that, otherwise i'll build up resentment... .i believe things should be equal. and they weren't with her. 

i think it also bothered or bothers me that this girl that i thought i loved, is a slut and goes and tries to be with what seems like an endless amount of guys. i just feel tainted myself in that i dont want people to know i really liked a girl who ended up being a whore... .but maybe that's an issue i need to work out. or maybe thats just the way things are nowadays... go around and sleep with like 10 people a year... .i dont think that lifestyle is for me... .

i'm really glad you seem set on moving on. i hope you keep at it... .healing took time for me but i'm in a pretty good place right now, though sometimes i get some sort of feeling i'm not sure how to explain over it all... .either way i think in my case it wasn't just a matter of being me again, but also developing into a new me

again, sorry to hog this, but i enjoyed these chats... .

i wonder how supernova's doing... .haven't seen her post back yet... .

[Supernova9star]

He asks you to leave him alone yet carries on a lengthy text conversation.  Nuts I tell you.  Not that it really matters but he now thinks he can have you back whenever he wants.  Don't give him the satisfaction.  This is not going to be the last you have heard from him.  Heal so next time you won't care.

Yes I found it strange how he was giving me so much of his time yet made it sound as though he was thoroughly annoyed about it.  I was actually hoping someone would point out the inconsistencies in his behavior.  I obviously am not used to doing so and have been in denial for so long.  I need a little coaching on cracking his code so to speak.  Thank you for validating me. 

You say he thinks he can have me back whenever he wants... .I'm wondering why you say that.  I am not disputing it, just needing to learn more about that.  Thanks for all you are willing to help me with.  I truly appreciate it.

[Supernova9star]

@supernova,

1 - thanks for sharing that. i always enjoy seeing conversations cause its so easy to relate and every time it's pretty much how convo's went between me and my ex, and i guess its comforting to know that maybe i'm not just branding her as someone with BPD for whatever reason

2- took a lot of courage for you to post that here.  my ex would be just as cold and do the same 180 spins on a moment's notice, it was incredible. fortunately i'm at a point where i not only understand why, but knowing that it was because she was getting her fix from someone else doesnt bother me... .i just overall think its a sad disorder... .

to me personally, i dont know how to classify if there was any truth to anything i had with my ex. i know i was no different than any other guy giving her fix, and she said the same nice things to them that she said to me. i now would rather appreciate having someone who actually knows who i am and likes me for what i am, rather than just the nice things she would say to her object (the way i look at it is i was just an object to her - to fill her voids and needs and so easily replaceable and she could take whatever emotions she had and just transpose them onto someone else)...

i guess how i feel now is that i just feel bad for any new guys that do fall in love with her. cause they dont know what theyre getting into, and i know they are no more special than i was, and that no matter how hard they try (as i tried extremely hard), i'm sure she will meet a couple that will also try very hard, but no matter - it is fruitless and neverending.

regardless of BPD and regardless of my ex, i feel its important for me to look at things in perspective... .i am so grateful that while i go through pains in my life, they can be finite as dictated by me and are not infinite or never-ending or as overwhelming as what someone with BPD or any other disorder goes through.  i am grateful that i have my mental health and can make logical decisions and don't fluctuate with extreme opposite emotions on a day to day basis.  i also feel grateful i have the capability to improve my mental health on a much quicker and healthier basis than someone with BPD does.

it was sad things didnt work out with my ex. whom she presented herself as during idealization was like a fairy tale. but it was fake, nothing she said was real, and none of the moments we shared were real or unique or special.  i am grateful that maybe some day, i will meet someone whom i can have a meaningful and healthy relationship with - when the time is right... .until then being on my own is great because i learn more about myself and i appreciate being independent...

i didn't go to therapy, i found the answers on my own just as you said you're inclined to do. i came to these boards, i forced myself to get back into shape and i sought out hobbies and activities and friends that brought me joy and recognized me for me (unlike my ex, who i am sure doesnt even know who i actually i)... .those kinds of relationships just feel fuller and healthier to me.

thanks again for sharing that convo. i think i've posted a couple on here between my ex and i and it always does help to hear words from another BPD cause it helps with the understanding thing... .

unfortunately i deleted all mail i had from my ex otherwise i would've included a snippet. but yeah, after fights, she always throws all the blame on me even if its not deserved...

i dont know... .hope you just take it one step at a time with forward progress and eventually you find peace of mind.

Thank you. Your post helped me more than you know.

[Supernova9star]

Supernova,

I'm so sorry that you had to go through that conversation, how painful.    I remember how incredibly hurt I felt during the last conversation with my pwBPD, it was like talking to a different person.

I realize now that it is part of the disorder, he couldn't act differently, mine even knew that he was dysregulated and that he was kind of "gone."

One thing that really helped me was reading about the beliefs that keep us stuck in the merry-go-round of trying to understand:

"Unknown to you, there were likely significant   periods of   shame, fear, disappointment, resentment, and anger rising from below the surface during the entire relationship. What you have seen lately is not new - rather it’s a culmination of feelings that have been brewing in the relationship."

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.msg1331264#msg1331264

Keep posting, we are here for you. 

Thank you. Your kind words and advice are gracious and a blessing.

[Octoberfest]

spooky... .I heard "its none of your business" and "it is what it is" countless times from my BPDex inbetween recycles.  The "none of your business" part makes me laugh because my BPDex made her relationships MANY people business because she was involved with so many people at one time.  And the "it is what it is" part sheds an amazing amount of light on the disorder IMO.  It removes the pwBPD from any responsibility- things just "happen", not as a result of their own actions or behavior.  They are forever the victim in life. My BPDex, at the ripe old age of 22, has been married before and engaged several other times.  She left home at 18 to move halfway across the country to live with her father who she had never met, and then moved across the other half of the country all the way to the east coast before failing there and coming back home.  She has been to 3 different colleges in 3 years of school.  But all along, the reason her marriage and engagements failed were because her husband and fiances and boyfriends were "cheating" or "abusive".  I found out a few weeks back that she told a girlfriend of hers (one who happens to be a lesbian, who my BPDex cheated on me with while we were together) that I was abusive.  Lies and lies and lies... . but she will keep running, because it is what she knows how to do.  But God be damned if anything that has ever happened to her is her fault.

Reading the conversation that you posted I was strongly reminded of conversations that my BPDex and I had following breakups (both those that led to recycles and the final one that didn't)... .It was me (and you) contacting them looking for answers... .and finding only a cold stone wall.  Our hearts were bleeding, and we went looking for comfort from someone who we assumed must also be hurting as well.  What we found instead were people who refused to let the wound drain, and instead just slapped a cheap bandaid over top of it. 

It is funny... .we see our BPDex's off all happy with the new partner while we mope and grieve, and for as much as we are told that WE are the healthy ones, THEY are sick, I at least have a hard time believing it sometimes.  I look and say, "Look, they seem so happy and better off while I sit here miserable... .".  I have envied my BPDex at times after the breakup... .A lot of times I still don't totally believe that I am better off, that she is doomed to a life of pain and suffering like the one she has lived, even though I know it to be true. 

It is odd when your own mind is your worst enemy.