Project identification--making you the jerk

[triangleheart]

My therapist talked to me about BPDs and Projective Identification yesterday. She said that BPDs use PI to offload their bad feelings about themselves and also to turn you, the Non, into the "bad parent" or whoever else they need to fight against. It's a very creepy thing whereby the Non truly gets their "self" erased and replaced by the projection of the BPD.

This is what happened to me. By the end of the relationship, I was an anxious mess, a shadow of my former self, and someone I no longer recognized. I don't think I even had a "self" anymore. I was accused by the BPD of being so many things that I'd NEVER been in any other relationship.

What was projected onto me? I was: needy, controlling, dependent, had no life, resentful, envious, unsupportive, angry, suspicious, etc.

And the reality is... .I really did become all of those things to some degree in the relationship with the BPD.


And now, I have the massive task of shedding all of the ugly traits that the BPD offloaded onto me. Yet I am grateful and increasingly happy. Because this healing and learning experience is excruciatingly painful, but once I get through it, I will be a changed person who will NEVER allow another person to project onto me again.

[Johan]

I was just going to post how much I hate my ex's mother.

Months ago I brought up mental health to my ex and let's talk in person, not email. I got told "I DON'T KNOW WHETHER TO SHOUT R CRY, UR A BULLY"

It's why I can have compassion for her in someway. As much as smear campaign and hurt... .

At 1st i thought she was manipulating me to feel sorry for her... I don't think she was...


I lost my identity at end of relationship, and in fact i felt like her parent... .I enabled such child like behaviour without knowing... found it cute.

Does this carry on into the next relationship, even after few years of therapy... .  or would people think it was just with me... .the relationship ended with constant texting where are you, tears, paranoia... .would I have been just the 'bad parent' and everyone else she dates be ok and healthy relationship?

Also like triangle heart... .

I will not let this happen again. EVER

[heartandwhole]

triangleheart,

Sounds like you have a good therapist.    I can relate to losing yourself in the relationship (projections), it was really painful for me.  

Today I feel great and like an even better version of myself, if that's possible.

Keep up the great work, thanks for sharing your experiences.

[winston72]

Becoming aware of projective identification was eye-opening and incredibly helpful to me.  I took much of her projections to heart, sub-consciously and consciously, and wondered if they were true.  It was so very, very destabilizing.  It wiped me out. It all created a constant level of anxiety.  Amazing. 

I find that I still do not have a clear grasp of the psychological dynamics between her and me on this topic.  My emotions seem to slow down my ability to absorb the truths in all of this.  It is just hard for me to grasp that it was all happening.  So, I have been concentrating on insights about it all from my "inside out" perspective.  In other words, how did I feel?  How do I feel now?  Who am I really?  What do I want?  That path leads me to seeing some of the dynamics more clearly.  When I try to understand what she was doing, I get quite lost…because she was quite lost!

Thank you for your post.

[Turkish]

I took on her eating disorder, even though I only gained about 10 pounds since we had met. Stress and not eating... .I lost almost 25 pounds in a little over two months. The thing is, I like the lighter me. I will shed another 10 lbs, using now as a baseline, but do it in a more healthy manner. I had told her she had a borderline (no pun intended) eating disorder. She shot back with "YOU have an eating disorder!" *sigh*

[Ironmanrises]

Project identification... .

One of the most hurtful aspects... .

That I have dealt with.

I began to feel... .

Exactly... .

How my exUBPDgf... .

Must have felt inside.

Her projections... .

Were powerful.

She hates herself.

I began to hate myself.

That was the ever present... .

Feeling.

There are many times... .

I try and block those memories... .

Out of my mind.

[thisyoungdad]

So funny I was talking to a guy today about this very subject. About how crazy my ex has become, like really crazy. Like actually not in her correct frame of mind crazy, where I can see in her eyes she is someplace else. She then projects all her issues with her mom and dad on to me and takes them out on me, and justifies her behaviors because I did X,Y or Z which I in fact never did. And if I did still doesn't justify that treatment. I feel like it has gotten worse recently. We are in the divorce process but as far as I am concerned divorced yet this is the one thing that still just hurts the most. That other areas I am making good progress but to have this just get worse is so hard, and stressful for me.

We share custody 50/50 and yet it seems like I still interact with her too damn much despite my attempts to limit it. Now of course she contacts me and I engage more than I should, although making progress. Yet 85% of the time that engagement leads to projections and being treated badly. It is hard to remember that all these negative feelings are about herself, or someone else. I can barely live sometimes as the object of her rage. So if she feels that way about herself at all no wonder she needs a new target, it would be unbearable to keep living I would think. Still sucks, isn't right and hurts though.

[DragoN]

She then projects all her issues with her mom and dad on to me and takes them out on me, and justifies her behaviors because I did X,Y or Z which I in fact never did. And if I did still doesn't justify that treatment.

Same experience. But I no longer care. Dump it all on me. I am fine with it.  Satan's twin sister is strong enough to carry the load and leave.

I can barely live sometimes as the object of her rage.

Don't live with it. Leave it. Let her enjoy the chaos alone.

[thisyoungdad]

H20... .that's my question, how the heck do I do that when I have to interact with the chaos?

[DragoN]

Good shields and strong belief in yourself.

PD's like to zero you out, make you nothing. Which is fine as long as they leave you alone. But if not? Shields and remove yourself from the blast zone. Maintain your own internal equilibrium.

[houseofswans]

She then projects all her issues with her mom and dad on to me and takes them out on me, and justifies her behaviors because I did X,Y or Z which I in fact never did.

The worst rage I ever experienced from my ex was 'because' I hadn't intuited the issues she has with her parents.

It was horrible, and I think back to that episode when I try an erase her from my mind as part of the healing process

[necchi]

Different people, yet always the exact same paterns... .pfffff!

Been there done that,  yet i am still copping like you all, day by day. I'm thankful i found you guys otherwise i would still be in this paranoid innershell forgetting myself,my children and trying to fix her... .

I'm broken enough it need more than a screwdriver to fix my mess.   BTW, anyone seen my boundary's ?  I'm sure i let them down around here not to long ago!... .

take care my friends all my best wishes from getting chillier Quebec ! Xx

[DragoN]

I'm broken enough it need more than a screwdriver to fix my mess.   BTW, anyone seen my boundary's ?  I'm sure i let them down around here not to long ago!

The good news? It can be fixed.

The bad news? It  is hard to break habits. But is very worth it.

Boundaries  Start there.

Assertiveness

Lots of information there.

Mind Tools

[Johan]

I noticed only months after learning of BPD, my ex gave me compliments that her brother said about me, her aunt, her dad... .


but only out of FOG i realized these were things she hated about herself when she told me on tablets... .would this be PI? or projection or what? does this make sense?


I replied that it was nice of them but it was within 3weeks before we broke up... after being best friends 7 r 8 years? and together many of them too... but only off her meds 5months... .random compliments that now I don't feel were true... .

[myself]

It's one of the hardest parts, seeing yourself one way while someone who should know you well is seeing you as something else. Deflecting how they see themselves, which is filled with pain, into how they see and react to you. Many of us do this. There can be enough common truth in the projections to make us question ourselves, but those who can face it honestly and achieve real healing will have not taken on those projections permanently. What's yours? When you project yourself onto yourself, who are you?

[MrFox]

My exBPDgf has done her best to paint me as a liar, a cheater, and a manipulator.  I'm not those things but she has lied to me, manipulated me, and cheated on me.  It wasn't until after I called her on those things did she start accusing me of those things.

I think a lot of her anger comes from the fact that she projected her father issues onto me.  He was pretty absent from her life and by the end of it she had set me up (and I allowed it) in his place.  She wanted me to set boundaries for her, create rules, etc. Basically, be a father to her.  She often had very child-like behavior and, like Johan said, I found it cute.  Now that she has been throwing a three month tantrum it is far less cute.

One of the things she loved to do was make me a drink.  She said she loved the ritual of it.  I will admit that I enjoyed it too, until I realized how much both of us where drinking when we were around one another.  I brought it up shortly before the end.  She was drinking a fifth of vodka every two days and she is a small person.  Now, she is claiming that I am an alcoholic and need AA.  Before I was in a relationship with her, I drank one or two drinks a week, tops.  Since the break up I have gone back to that.  During it I was drinking almost every time I was with her.

[Johan]

My exBPDgf has done her best to paint me as a liar, a cheater, and a manipulator.  I'm not those things but she has lied to me, manipulated me, and cheated on me.  It wasn't until after I called her on those things did she start accusing me of those things.

I think a lot of her anger comes from the fact that she projected her father issues onto me.  He was pretty absent from her life and by the end of it she had set me up (and I allowed it) in his place.  She wanted me to set boundaries for her, create rules, etc. Basically, be a father to her.  She often had very child-like behavior and, like Johan said, I found it cute.  Now that she has been throwing a three month tantrum it is far less cute.

One of the things she loved to do was make me a drink.  She said she loved the ritual of it.  I will admit that I enjoyed it too, until I realized how much both of us where drinking when we were around one another.  I brought it up shortly before the end.  She was drinking a fifth of vodka every two days and she is a small person.  Now, she is claiming that I am an alcoholic and need AA.  Before I was in a relationship with her, I drank one or two drinks a week, tops.  Since the break up I have gone back to that.  During it I was drinking almost every time I was with her.

That is scary... .exactly the same, even down to making me the drink, she said she liked it... .I even ended up drinking vodka and her mix which I now realize I don't even like that much...

[Nicco]

Me i still have not figured out if I have assumed by myself the typical traits of her personality spending time with her ​​as I went deeper and deeper into the spiral of this toxic relationship or if she projected and hooked them on me in a way that I can not explain.

Is what i was tryng to explain isnide an another thread telling that i feel (and in part it's true) that she got my life and i got her life.

When we met she was alone,depressed,needing,cryng,desperate,feeling without hopes and without energies to face life under any aspect... .close to another suicide attempt... .while me i was pretty positive and peaceful,full of positive expectations for the future,with the desire to do things and have fun... .i can't say i was "happy" but was a very positive period for me.

After 18 months of BPD relationshiop the situation is absolutely the contrary... .i'm depressed,extremely needing,often cryng,painful,without energies or good expectations for the future... .while she's not depressed anymore,not cryng,not needing,with new friends,new job,new life and just full of good positive feelings and expectations.at least,it's what she shows.scaring.ANOTHER PERSON.and she showed no mercy for me or my feelings to get there.

And of course she said she done everything by herself,i have no part in this,i've done nothing for her or her child... .just a minimum... .i was the reason she didn't killed herself,now i'm nothing.

[Ironmanrises]

For me, my exUBPDgf initiated the relationship in round 1(after portraying in friendship that she liked me, didnt like me, liked me, didnt like me multiple times   ), and discarded me with the words "there is nothing i really like about you Ironmanfalls." as one of the main reasons for leaving me. Right.

Fast forward 3 months of NC, and my exUBPDgf returns, begging and crying(hysterically) with the words "i want MY man back." Round 2 commences, again, with her initiating it.

When she discarded me yet again in round 2, her words on the day she left me were " there is nothing i really like about you Ironmanfalls." You didnt misread that. She said the same exact f¥cking thing. As soon as she said that to me, i immediately said to her, "Morena, YOU started this relationship the first time(round 1). And then YOU left me. Then YOU came back to me, begging and crying. And i let YOU back in(round 2). And then YOU are leaving me again. YOU said that SAME exact thing to me both times. If there was nothing about me that YOU didnt really like, why the f¥ck did YOU do all of this? Why? Goddamn you."

Know how she replied?  With silence.

Of course with my self esteem being battered after 2 rounds of this, along with my major depression and its effects on me, of course now i feel like the entire time there really wasnt anything she really liked about me.

She really doesnt like anything about herself. And projected all of that onto me. Thank you Morena. YOU succeeded in YOUR attempt. I feel like a f¥cking worthless loser. Sorry just been having bad days. I hate this.

[MrFox]

That is scary... .exactly the same, even down to making me the drink, she said she liked it... .I even ended up drinking vodka and her mix which I now realize I don't even like that much...

One of the things I have noticed since coming to these boards is how scary a lot of the similarities in the behaviors that many of us have experienced.  I have even read quotes people have attributed to their BPDex and it is verbatim to what mine said.  It's like they have a script they are following.

Even scarier is how we have allowed our selves to be projected onto by them.  I happily allowed her to put her father issues onto me, I happily drank the drinks, and I happily blinded myself to all the red flags she was waving in my face.

[Turkish]

That is scary... .exactly the same, even down to making me the drink, she said she liked it... .I even ended up drinking vodka and her mix which I now realize I don't even like that much...

One of the things I have noticed since coming to these boards is how scary a lot of the similarities in the behaviors that many of us have experienced.  I have even read quotes people have attributed to their BPDex and it is verbatim to what mine said.  It's like they have a script they are following.

Even scarier is how we have allowed our selves to be projected onto by them.  I happily allowed her to put her father issues onto me, I happily drank the drinks, and I happily blinded myself to all the red flags she was waving in my face.

I used to tell mine during fights, " I'm not your father,  you know,"  to which she'd reply, "I know that!"  yet what did she say to me at the end? "I  felt abandoned,  it felt just like my father."

we did have that dynamic,  and a lot of that's on me.  when  started moving away from it,  that's when things started going downhill. a  no  win situation.

[MrFox]

I used to tell mine during fights, " I'm not your father,  you know,"  to which she'd reply, "I know that!"  yet what did she say to me at the end? "I  felt abandoned,  it felt just like my father."

we did have that dynamic,  and a lot of that's on me.  when  started moving away from it,  that's when things started going downhill. a  no  win situation.

Mine never did actually make references to her father accept in the end she did tell me that I was "just like every other man in her life has ever been".    My guess is they all have gotten her father issues dumped on them, which is one why none of us ever had a chance of making it work.  In the end she runs the second she perceives any kind of flaw in us.  Leaves her "father" before "he" leaves her again.

[maxen]

the script:

I happily allowed her to put her father issues onto me

I used to tell mine during fights, " I'm not your father,  you know," 

i used to think "i actually have to raise my wife."

Leaves her "father" before "he" leaves her again.

as she was announcing her infidelity and departure she said "i always thought you would be the one to leave. "

[Turkish]

I used to tell mine during fights, " I'm not your father,  you know,"  to which she'd reply, "I know that!"  yet what did she say to me at the end? "I  felt abandoned,  it felt just like my father."

we did have that dynamic,  and a lot of that's on me.  when  started moving away from it,  that's when things started going downhill. a  no  win situation.

Mine never did actually make references to her father accept in the end she did tell me that I was "just like every other man in her life has ever been".    My guess is they all have gotten her father issues dumped on them, which is one why none of us ever had a chance of making it work.  In the end she runs the second she perceives any kind of flaw in us.  Leaves her "father" before "he" leaves her again.

I  heard the " just like a  man!"  several times.  how she expects to raise an emotionally healthy son with an  attitude like that is beyond me,  especially since I've already seen signs of devaluation towards him,  despite being alternately very loving. I  told her  that I  already lived  this childhood.  without a  father  our other family members to balance it out.  She doesn't get it.

[MrFox]

To be fair, I probably put a ton of my mother issues on to her as well.  Part of the problem I'm having letting go is that I still want to understand her actions on a logical level, and even more so to have her understand me, see me for who I am, not the idol she put on a pedestal or the monster she views me as now.  I want her to see me as the real, complete person with good sides and bad sides.  I want a closure that is never going to happen.  Not with her, not with my mother.  Neither of them are capable of that so I have to somehow find it within myself.

[Turkish]

To be fair, I probably put a ton of my mother issues on to her as well.  Part of the problem I'm having letting go is that I still want to understand her actions on a logical level, and even more so to have her understand me, see me for who I am, not the idol she put on a pedestal or the monster she views me as now.  I want her to see me as the real, complete person with good sides and bad sides.  I want a closure that is never going to happen.  Not with her, not with my mother.  Neither of them are capable of that so I have to somehow find it within myself.

I forgave my mother about 17 years ago for my tumultuous childhood. Her silent crying and perceptible nod of the head was her acceptance of it. A few weeks after that, I left the state for three years. So I did my own version of running, though it turned out to be a brilliant career move and good experience after I came back. After months and weeks of ruminating and choosing my path, I left (partly in response to almost being with another troubled woman who messed with my head... .I finally ended that friendship myself because I was sick of beating up on myself). I did, however, realize that I had to confront my mother first. She still does not acknowledge half of it, due to her childhood being so much worse (much worse, and in that I have compassion), so I just don't bring it up. I don't know if any of that helps you, but that is me.

Despite that, I continued to be attracted to troubled women, and they to me. I did steer clear of it for years, but here I am 6 years after I found The Waif of my Life.

The behaviors which were my defense mechanisms as a youth still lay (or possibly lie) with me, like shutting down in the face of anger. As a child, it was either that, or get hit (which was usually getting hit anyway). No one can fix that except me, and it's good that we realize it. I worked on so much and worked through so much on my own, though it took many years, but this one thing, I don't know. Scared, in a way, that I'll do it again in some fashion.

[MrFox]

I am just now, in the past three months, coming to realize how abnormal my childhood was and how troubled my mother is.  In a way, I owe my my exBPDgf some gratitude for opening this door for me.  If it weren't for her, I don't know if I would be looking at myself this hard, would have never found out the family secret that my mother has BPD.  Plus, using my feelings and issues with her (the ex) has been a road map of a short to looking at the deeper issues that come from childhood.  Silver lining to the whole thing, I suppose.