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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: You don't want me Yes, I do…I really, really do  (Read 569 times)
winston72
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« on: October 31, 2013, 11:46:52 AM »

This one drove me crazy.  My ex would tell me this about me and I would respond by trying to convince her otherwise…that I wanted her in every way imaginable, that I never wanted anyone so much as I wanted her, that I would do anything for her.  AArrgh!  Than I would wonder what was wrong with me that I could not communicate to someone the amount of love and commitment I felt for her.  Surely I was defective because she could not feel what was in my heart. 

Oh, my.  Down and down the rabbit hole I went…no, not went, flew!  I was determined to prove myself to her, to show her what was really in my heart.  That was the key task!  If only that could happen than we would be happy!

Well, you all know how this was going to play out.  Toward the end I started to see that what she was really saying was, "I don't feel wanted.  I do not feel lovable.  No one can love me."  It was expressed as, "You don't want me.  You don't love me."  She didn't feel lovable, or worthy of love.

I took her words at face value and went into action, driven by my self doubt about my worthiness as a partner and in an effort to prove that I could love her and make her happy.  I was, of course, fighting the wrong battle.  The "right battle" is not one I could "win" with her.  I was not going to change her self-image in this regard.  And, the right battle was really my neediness and insecurity about myself. 

This sounds so simple and clear as I type it, but it was months, nay two years, of confusion, effort, anxiety, frustration, anguish, heartbreak.
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EdR
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« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2013, 12:34:06 PM »

This one drove me crazy.  My ex would tell me this about me and I would respond by trying to convince her otherwise…that I wanted her in every way imaginable, that I never wanted anyone so much as I wanted her, that I would do anything for her.  AArrgh!  Than I would wonder what was wrong with me that I could not communicate to someone the amount of love and commitment I felt for her.  Surely I was defective because she could not feel what was in my heart. 

Oh, my.  Down and down the rabbit hole I went…no, not went, flew!  I was determined to prove myself to her, to show her what was really in my heart.  That was the key task!  If only that could happen than we would be happy!

Well, you all know how this was going to play out.  Toward the end I started to see that what she was really saying was, "I don't feel wanted.  I do not feel lovable.  No one can love me."  It was expressed as, "You don't want me.  You don't love me."  She didn't feel lovable, or worthy of love.

I took her words at face value and went into action, driven by my self doubt about my worthiness as a partner and in an effort to prove that I could love her and make her happy.  I was, of course, fighting the wrong battle.  The "right battle" is not one I could "win" with her.  I was not going to change her self-image in this regard.  And, the right battle was really my neediness and insecurity about myself. 

This sounds so simple and clear as I type it, but it was months, nay two years, of confusion, effort, anxiety, frustration, anguish, heartbreak.

Although my situation is/was completely different, I really think the part in bold is my issue as well.

But I wonder... .is it really neediness if you just genuinely care about someone and really want them to be happy?

Is it really an abnormal level of insecurity if you are confronted with someone who -at first inexplicably- acts the way they do and confuse the crap out of you... .

I totally agree that WE are the ones to change... .that we are the ones who should work on our inner selves.

But do we really need to magnify some of our good traits and suddenly put a 'this is bad' sticker on them... ?
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houseofswans
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« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2013, 12:46:03 PM »

But I wonder... .is it really neediness if you just genuinely care about someone and really want them to be happy?

Now that's a very interesting question and one I've been struggling with  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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eyvindr
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: NC
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« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2013, 12:51:56 PM »

Guys,

Can we say "Care-taker"? Sure we can... .Or codependent.

EdR -- good question. I do think it comes down to what works for each of us as individuals -- we all have different comfort levels with various r-ship dynamics and needs (affection, communication, anger, drama, romance, etc.).

I'd agree that it's just as unproductive to exaggerate our "good" traits as it is to blow their "bad" traits out of proportion. But there does come a point at which, even though we know a disease is calling (some of) the shots behind the curtain -- everyone is responsible for their own behavior. Yes, even if they can't (or choose not to) control it. The person may not be bad, but the behavior can still absolutely suck.

Good thread!
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"Being deceived in effect takes away your right to make accurate life choices based on truth." -- waverider

"Don't try the impossible, as you're sure to become well and truly stuck and require recovery." -- Vintage Land Rover 4X4 driving instructional video
winston72
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« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2013, 02:26:11 PM »

Well said, EdR.  I agree that I/we can go too far in blaming ourselves for the excesses of our partners.  Had my behaviors and approaches been applied to a relationship with a healthier person, they could have been appreciated, nurtured and in many instances adjusted to be a bit healthier for me.  Hmmm... .so I am proposing that my caretaker dimensions (you got this one right Evvindr!) would have "succeeded" if my partner was healthier.  I do feel this way... .and I think I am incorrect!  The problem with that approach is that I would not be injecting my needs and desires into the relationship.  So, it would fail eventually, just with less drama and tumult.

The theme that is hitting me a lot lately is "facing the facts."  I need to see my ex for who she is, and see myself for who I am.  Not the extremes of good or bad in either person, but pursue the facts as best as I can.  Overstating my neediness can diminish her accountability for her own behavior, and my willingness to do that is typical of a codependent approach!  It is a kind of denial of how she behaved and a projection onto her of what I think she really meant.  That obviously does not help.  So it is a blend of seeing appropriate levels of responsibility in both people... .facing the facts!

Of course... .she is more responsible, but that is my fault.  Ha!  My codependency speaks!
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eyvindr
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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2013, 09:03:39 PM »

 
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"Being deceived in effect takes away your right to make accurate life choices based on truth." -- waverider

"Don't try the impossible, as you're sure to become well and truly stuck and require recovery." -- Vintage Land Rover 4X4 driving instructional video
DragoN
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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2013, 09:18:39 PM »

Really enjoy your posts, albeit they give me a twisty head ache.

Excerpt
But I wonder... .is it really neediness if you just genuinely care about someone and really want them to be happy?

Is it really an abnormal level of insecurity if you are confronted with someone who -at first inexplicably- acts the way they do and confuse the crap out of you... .

I totally agree that WE are the ones to change... .that we are the ones who should work on our inner selves.

But do we really need to magnify some of our good traits and suddenly put a 'this is bad' sticker on them... ?

It's all we can do, look at ourselves. How we react to BPD behaviors or any exchange between humans. I cannot control how a person receives a message nor how they may choose to interpret it. I can only control the manner of the delivery. This stream of consciousness will no longer be flowing down the rabbit hole. Feelings do not = Facts. My Feelings Do Not = Facts. Facts = Facts. And holding onto logic and reason is probably one of the few reasons I have not gone completely insane dealing with the PD Matrix.

You don't want me!  Yes, I do…I really, really do!

Can turn that around. I want my husband without the PD. But that's not going to happen. As such, my options are limited. I can no longer tolerate the PD enhanced version. Therefore, I don't want him.

How callous is that? Under Reason is a weeping soul locked in a fortress. Empathy for my stbx only opens the doors to being emotionally raped.
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Ironmanrises
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« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2013, 11:49:00 PM »

This one drove me crazy.  My ex would tell me this about me and I would respond by trying to convince her otherwise…that I wanted her in every way imaginable, that I never wanted anyone so much as I wanted her, that I would do anything for her.  AArrgh!  Than I would wonder what was wrong with me that I could not communicate to someone the amount of love and commitment I felt for her.  Surely I was defective because she could not feel what was in my heart. 

Oh, my.  Down and down the rabbit hole I went…no, not went, flew!  I was determined to prove myself to her, to show her what was really in my heart.  That was the key task!  If only that could happen than we would be happy!


Well, you all know how this was going to play out.  Toward the end I started to see that what she was really saying was, "I don't feel wanted.  I do not feel lovable.  No one can love me."  It was expressed as, "You don't want me.  You don't love me."  She didn't feel lovable, or worthy of love.

I took her words at face value and went into action, driven by my self doubt about my worthiness as a partner and in an effort to prove that I could love her and make her happy.  I was, of course, fighting the wrong battle.  The "right battle" is not one I could "win" with her.  I was not going to change her self-image in this regard.  And, the right battle was really my neediness and insecurity about myself. 

This sounds so simple and clear as I type it, but it was months, nay two years, of confusion, effort, anxiety, frustration, anguish, heartbreak.

In bold.

That is how it was... .

For me too.

Even when my exUBPDgf... .

Came back to me for Round 2... .

She asked me... .

"Ironmanfalls... .

Why do you love me... .?

Why do you want to be with me... .?"

I already knew of her disorder... .

By then... .

Yet... .

She came back to me... .

And was asking me that.

And here I was... .

Having allowed her back in... .

Into my world... .

Accepted her... .

For who she is... .

Disorder and all... .

And here she was... .

Questioning... .

My love for her.

Why would I love her... .

Why would I want to be with her... .

And I thought... .

I had proved it... .

By allowing her back in... .

And that rabbit hole... .

Descends... .

Far down... .

Without end.

Saddening... .

Maddening... .

Chaotic... .

Destructive... .

Beyond words.

I tried.

I tried incredibly hard.

To show her.

Made no difference.

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