She says she gives up.

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I hit a point where I just didn't have it in me to try to SET and DEARMAN anymore.  It all felt like walking on egg shells in one way or another.  I just wanted out.  I didn't want to constantly be analyzing whether I was going to set off the BPD reactions anymore.  I wanted to be with someone that I could just be me with, without having to worry about repercussions.  When I hit that point, I stopped caring what my BPD's reactions where, and stopped listening to the dysregulated reactions.  She'd dysregulate and I'd instantly withdraw and just tell her "deal with your emotions yourself, leave me out of this craziness" and leave.  I actually got kind of callous to my BPD.   

Am I sensing the same sort of thing in you?

Ditto here Waddams and Bulgakov.   After many years, I just feel worn out.  I have spend a year and half in therapy to realize that I am a decent guy and pretty good father.  I am no longer willing sacrifice my own health or my children to the crazy making.  Thank god I have a  good family support system that tolerates my calls asking them to verify that I am okay.

And yes, importantly you need to make time to do things that you enjoy doing.

[ugghh]

I hit a point where I just didn't have it in me to try to SET and DEARMAN anymore.  It all felt like walking on egg shells in one way or another.  I just wanted out.  I didn't want to constantly be analyzing whether I was going to set off the BPD reactions anymore.  I wanted to be with someone that I could just be me with, without having to worry about repercussions.  When I hit that point, I stopped caring what my BPD's reactions where, and stopped listening to the dysregulated reactions.  She'd dysregulate and I'd instantly withdraw and just tell her "deal with your emotions yourself, leave me out of this craziness" and leave.  I actually got kind of callous to my BPD.   

Am I sensing the same sort of thing in you?

Ditto here Waddams and Bulgakov.   After many years, I just feel worn out.  I have spend a year and half in therapy to realize that I am a decent guy and pretty good father.  I am no longer willing sacrifice my own health or my children to the crazy making.  Thank god I have a  good family support system that tolerates my calls asking them to verify that I am okay.

And yes, importantly you need to make time to do things that you enjoy doing.

[ugghh]

Cipher,

Do you ever wonder how they can type and text faster then you can even think?

I see that your SO and mine share a common trait in their communications - a copious use of the word "you" and its derivatives.  They insist on telling you how you feel, why you act the way you do, how you let them down, why your intentions were lacking... .

You get the idea.  I have recently began drawing a boundary of asking my uBPDw to please refrain from telling me how I feel or why I act or say what I do.

As expected, that boundary goes over like a lead balloon because projecting is a core symptom with many BPD.  Her response is that now I am reacting negatively to everything she says and treating it as a criticism and she cannot be responsible for my low self esteem and unwillingness to accept her "feelings" which all start with "you."  The first few times I continued to fall into the vortex and continue the circular argument.  Lately, I have begun to be better at just ending the discussion.

[eyvindr]

Do you ever wonder how they can type and text faster then you can even think?

Ditto!

You get the idea.  I have recently began drawing a boundary of asking my uBPDw to please refrain from telling me how I feel or why I act or say what I do.

As expected, that boundary goes over like a lead balloon because projecting is a core symptom with many BPD.  Her response is that now I am reacting negatively to everything she says and treating it as a criticism and she cannot be responsible for my low self esteem and unwillingness to accept her "feelings" which all start with "you."  The first few times I continued to fall into the vortex and continue the circular argument.  Lately, I have begun to be better at just ending the discussion.

Yep. I so sadly can relate. Each time, I got "better" at simply detaching from her -- which is kind of the exact opposite of what one wants to be doing with their partner, right? Oh, wait -- when you're in a healthy r-ship, that strategy works... .funny how I still keep forgetting that this r-ship wasn't just me and my ex.

It was me, my ex, and BPD.

[eyvindr]

allibaba --

Thank you for your feedback.

It sounds like you did absolutely EVERYTHING possible to make the relationship work. 

I have good, good, good news.  Since you actually took the steps you took with her... .you are more likely to break this cycle of dysfunction in your own life (not go out and find another sick one in the next relationship... .or if you do find one... .you'll recognize the red flags sooner and get less enmeshed. 

I tried. I really did -- and I strove to do it with compassion and understanding. I'm old enough to know that one thing I don't want to carry around are unnecessary regrets -- and if I hadn't tried to give my ex every opportunity to get it, I would have them. I never forgot that she was disordered, and suffering -- even though she'd never admit to it. Which did and still does cause me anger. Because it caused both of us to lose something precious.

But it helped to hear someone validate that I didn't just quit. I didn't just give up -- I didn't abandon her. There's a difference. I tried, I tried very hard, over a substantial period of time. I expressed to her what I was doing, how I was approaching it, I told her it wouldn't work without her cooperation. When it didn't work, I expressed that it wasn't working, and wouldn't work unless she decided to start taking steps. Nothing changed appreciably. As others have said, I was worn out, exhausted, sick of trying. That's why I left. It wouldn't be fair for either of us to have stuck around.

Thank you.

[Cipher13]

Just a quick update. She came with me on my business trip. The first night was hell and she had a huge fit. Wanted to leave. If I didn't hide the keys she would have left me here. Besides its arental car and company supplied. That would not have looked good. Then night 2 she wanted me to drive her hafl way and have family pick her up. Almost did that. Talked her out finally. She is still very sensative to everything i say. If I give a time frame she doesn't like that it can very more than a couple mins.

We are back to the high level good feelings right after the lowest of low feelings. My mental copasity can not handle that anymore. I had huge migrane after dealing with day 1. Its better now that she isn't doing that and is calmer.

How is it that I pointed out to her that her behavior on the first night was childish when it indeed was exactly that and maybe an understatement. She said it was inapropriate to point out the fault of a spouse. I said if I acted like a jerk then I'd want to know. 

[eyvindr]

Cipher13 --

It's hard, especially when you're in the throes of an emotional conflict, but try to remember -- one of the characteristics of BPD is shame. And the person suffering from BPD is incapable of dealing with the painful feelings associated with shame. On one hand, they can't "contain" the feelings themselves -- they haven't developed self-soothing skills, remember -- so they must project their bad feelings onto someone else. It's almost like a survival skill for them, or more accurately, maybe, for their psyche.

Also, they struggle horribly with boundaries. I often felt with my ex that she truly didn't understand that, as much as we loved each other and as close as we were, we were still fundamentally two separate people and organisms, both with our own separate thoughts and feelings. Your ex may be struggling with that, too -- if you criticize her in any way, it gets run through the BPD filter, and she may interpret it like this: "If you can criticize me, then you must be able to see my flaws, and if you can see my flaws, then you can't love me, because if you loved me, you would accept everything about me, including my flaws, so there must be something very wrong with you if you find it so easy to mistreat me like this, this is emotional abuse, you are an abuser!" -- and then they rage.

I think a lot of pwBPD also experienced pretty severe time distortion. I'm certain that my ex did. What else can explain why anyone would send a txt msg or email, and then freak out because they didn't get a response... .in two minutes? Or, if we'd plan to do something in the future -- the "future" to my ex was very literal -- like, tomorrow, or next week. A month was pushing it, and anything longer than 2 months was an eternity. It reminded me of how children tend to experience everything as being so much larger or longer than it is -- first impressions tend to have the biggest impact, and most things are first impressions to children. And, if pwBPD have some degree of arrested emotional development from childhood, it makes sense that they'd continue to struggle with this.

Also -- you said that, if you'd acted like a jerk, you'd want to know. This is one of those things that is different for pwBPD. You'd want to know b/c you don't see yourself as someone who would intentionally be a jerk -- so, if you were being a jerk, you'd want to know about it, so you could correct your behavior. Because you know that you are in control of your behavior, and you are accountable for your actions. In pwBPD, everything happens to them, or is done to them -- they kind of often just see themselves as extras, I think -- yet they hate it, so they go out of their way to prove to the world that they matter -- when, of course, they already do, because the rest of the world sees them as real people, with just as much value as everyone else.

If only they could see it, too. It's sad.

e.

[Cipher13]

How can a stop or control or end the arguments that tend to be about my "bad attitude" or "meanness". When I am called those things I am only defending myself against untruths.

[Waddams]

Just my humble opinion, but what she's doing is ultimately trying to break down your boundaries.  It's like this:

-She gets dysregulated and wants to lash out at you.

-She feels entitled to do so, leading her to feel that you deserve it.

-You are enacting boundaries and are not letting her do what she wants to do to you because it is abusive and hurtful.  You are right to protect yourself.

-She runs up against the boundary.  The operative phrase from the prior sentence and all she cares about is "... .not letter do what she wants to do... .".  Since she feels entitled to what she wants to do regardless of who it hurts, she then progresses to "he won't let me do what i want to do, that is controlling and therefore mean, abusive, etc.". 

-However, we all know that the part about should be able to do what you want always has a caveat attached to it - you can do what you want as long as you don't hurt others. 

-She's conveniently forgetting that caveat.

-Therefore, in her mind, you are controlling her because you won't let her do what she wants to do to you.

We all know that last line is not true because you have a right to protect yourself from being hurt.  However, she doesn't know that.  She believes you don't have the right to protect yourself, hence her behavior.  This is not rational, or reasonable.  Therefore she is not a rational, reasonable person at this moment. 

So in answer to this:

How can a stop or control or end the arguments that tend to be about my "bad attitude" or "meanness". When I am called those things I am only defending myself against untruths.

Really the only thing you can do is remove yourself from the situation in the heat of the moment, which I realize is easier than it sounds with BPD's, but it can be done.  You just have to be willing to do it while they are chasing you, yelling, screaming, and making a public scene. 

Trying to reason with her won't work.  It's like trying to reason with a drunk.  It's pointless.  You can't reason with a person that is unreasonable.  The best solution is not to play and just leave the situation when she's acting out.

As always, that's all just my humble opinion.  Doesn't mean break up right now.  Means she's got to learn that her current behavior won't get her what she wants from you anymore (which is ultimately to feel safe and secure), so she's got to learn new behaviors to replace old ones.  However, she won't as long as the current behaviors keep working for her and getting her what she wants.

[Surnia]

Cipher,

Did you want her to come with you to the business trip?

[Cipher13]

Cipher,

Did you want her to come with you to the business trip?

No. I did not want her to.

[allibaba]

Cipher,

Did you want her to come with you to the business trip?

No. I did not want her to.

But instead of telling her that it was a work trip and she couldn't go... .he told her that if she could move her schedule then she could come (knowing that it would be tough to move her schedule)... .and she managed to move her schedule.

[Cipher13]

Yes thats exactly what happened. Then a fight before and she said she wasn't going then she was a"all better" and she came with me. Then a huge fight the day we got here and she wanted to drive the rental  car back and leave me here.