Does it really boil down to "You got played, deal with it"

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Folks, I am struggling with this utter violation. Some of the last words were "I do not want your e-mail associated with my (our) pregnancy test". It's such a stupid petty little insult. But at the same time it destroys years together in such a few words. It's been two months and I am burning in anger, so crippled it's amusing. I wake up at nights in rage and go punch things. But I cannot, arthritis in my hands hurts too much for that. Suits this just fine, helpless while it lasted, helpless later. Well, to the point:

"Understand that this is 50% your fault"

I am doing my homeworks dilligently. And for the heck of it I cannot trace this disaster to own mommy/daddy issues or similar previous relationships. Yes, childhood was tough but it tought me self-sufficiency. Previous codependencies? On the contrary, I was probably too careless with some girls' hearts and probably broke some in the process. So, where are my faults? Compassion that made me enter? Or stupidity borne out of ignorance that made me stay? Ok, guess I was stupid.

"You will come out of this a better person/have a better life"

Job lost. Social influence lost. Salary lost. Social network lost. I'll be getting that back and more? I would not bet on it. May happen, just as it may not. But I liked most of my past life that is now gone forever. I am really sorry people do not come back to this board many years out to tell us if bliss really happened, or they spent rest of their lives repairing the damage. Anyway, I'll be in my 40-es by the time I get back on my feet and no matter what happens, nothing will bring back some of the most important years of my life.

"But these people are miserable"

In case of high-functioning ones? When exactly? During these 5 minutes before bedtime when there is no validation/company? Let me do some math... .past 2 months x 24/7 pain equals approximately 10 years of being down 5 minutes per day (if). And it will be many more months for me. Oh, sure, she might never happily marry, experience "true" love, have deep friendships... .but where are guarantees that this will happen in my "rebuilt" life? Perfectly normal people spend their lives lacking some or all of this, and I am positive I had much better perspective years before. *I* would not be with me the way I am now.

What I am saying is that never in my 39 years of life was I ever so angry or hateful of anyone. And trust me, I went through some big punches. Helplesness is killing me. Let's be realistic. I will not act on my anger. Life will not "punish" her. There is no atonement to be had.

I (we) got played. Tough luck. Boo-hoo. Deal with it.

Does it really boil down to this?

[Numbers]

Folks, I am struggling with this utter violation. Some of the last words were "I do not want your e-mail associated with my (our) pregnancy test". It's such a stupid petty little insult. But at the same time it destroys years together in such a few words. It's been two months and I am burning in anger, so crippled it's amusing. I wake up at nights in rage and go punch things. But I cannot, arthritis in my hands hurts too much for that. Suits this just fine, helpless while it lasted, helpless later. Well, to the point:

"Understand that this is 50% your fault"

I am doing my homeworks dilligently. And for the heck of it I cannot trace this disaster to own mommy/daddy issues or similar previous relationships. Yes, childhood was tough but it tought me self-sufficiency. Previous codependencies? On the contrary, I was probably too careless with some girls' hearts and probably broke some in the process. So, where are my faults? Compassion that made me enter? Or stupidity borne out of ignorance that made me stay? Ok, guess I was stupid.

"You will come out of this a better person/have a better life"

Job lost. Social influence lost. Salary lost. Social network lost. I'll be getting that back and more? I would not bet on it. May happen, just as it may not. But I liked most of my past life that is now gone forever. I am really sorry people do not come back to this board many years out to tell us if bliss really happened, or they spent rest of their lives repairing the damage. Anyway, I'll be in my 40-es by the time I get back on my feet and no matter what happens, nothing will bring back some of the most important years of my life.

"But these people are miserable"

In case of high-functioning ones? When exactly? During these 5 minutes before bedtime when there is no validation/company? Let me do some math... .past 2 months x 24/7 pain equals approximately 10 years of being down 5 minutes per day (if). And it will be many more months for me. Oh, sure, she might never happily marry, experience "true" love, have deep friendships... .but where are guarantees that this will happen in my "rebuilt" life? Perfectly normal people spend their lives lacking some or all of this, and I am positive I had much better perspective years before. *I* would not be with me the way I am now.

What I am saying is that never in my 39 years of life was I ever so angry or hateful of anyone. And trust me, I went through some big punches. Helplesness is killing me. Let's be realistic. I will not act on my anger. Life will not "punish" her. There is no atonement to be had.

I (we) got played. Tough luck. Boo-hoo. Deal with it.

Does it really boil down to this?

[mitchell16]

as bad as I hate to say, Thats the way I feel. I got played by a master player and now I just have to deal with the best way I can. The scars do run deep. Maybe she really did love me in her own way but still it hard not relize the hurt that you cause people. BUt at the same time im not mentally ill so maybe I cant understand it.

[Changingman]

I'm 4 months nearly, still raging but much less. So much hit, such betrayal its frightening. The worse person I have ever met, by 1000.

I almost died when we split, fevers, shaking, sweating, 2 panic attacks (I've never had one before), shame, confussion and lied to from the moment I met her. One dog put down, the other adopted, no feeling, responsibility or thought for the past, she hit reset and started the whole hit again with someone else, portraying me as the one responsible. Everyone will see later on when she repeats the process. But who cares. Helplesness is killing me too. I'm exercising, eating better, have lost 2-3 stone in weight, look really good, am treating myself to loving care.

I have no idea what's going to happen to me now, it all feels a bit late. BUT I have promised myself to take care of me, like I took care of the Demon. I will not hang around with crAzy people again.

It will get better when you are further out of the FOG, I'm still finding memories and incidents that have shocked me. Check about you Mum and Dad, sometimes I think we have been programmed to deny our feelings.

We got played. Dealing with it is for our own good. I'm so angry at times still.

Good Luck Author

[Waifed]

I'm 4 months nearly, still raging but much less. So much , such betrayal its frightening. The worse person I have ever met, by 1000.

I almost died when we split, fevers, shaking, sweating, 2 panic attacks (I've never had one before), shame, confussion and lied to from the moment I met her. One dog put down, the other adopted, no feeling, responsibility or thought for the past, she hit reset and started the whole  again with someone else, portraying me as the one responsible. Everyone will see later on when she repeats the process. But who cares. Helplesness is killing me too. I'm exercising, eating better, have lost 2-3 stone in weight, look really good, am treating myself to loving care.

I have no idea what's going to happen to me now, it all feels a bit late. BUT I have promised myself to take care of me, like I took care of the Demon. I will not hang around with crAzy people again.

It will get better when you are further out of the FOG, I'm still finding memories and incidents that have shocked me. Check about you Mum and Dad, sometimes I think we have been programmed to deny our feelings.

We got played. Dealing with it is for our own good. I'm so angry at times still.

Good Luck Author

bold

It is amazing some of the things they said and did.  It is even more amazing some of the things we let them say and do!  Never again will I let anyone get away with this treatment.  I have faced my demons and I am improving myself daily.  It is scary and awesome at the same time!  This is the best thing that has ever happened to me.

[ShadowDancer]

For me nobody EVER said life would be fair! This THING(aftermath) I now deal with... .I jumped in willingly and right over my head. I got played in a big way. By her and by my own self. Deal with it? What other choice is there?

Over a year out for me. Am I "better" for the lesson. YES! Has my life improved? It has been a snails pace, but again YES!

39! That is young. Look around you. Every day and I mean EVERY DAY I see examples... ."for the grace of God there go I".

My ride is a car NOT pushing a shopping cart.

My roof is a house and NOT a bridge.

My dinner came out of the refrigerator NOT out of a liquor bottle.

My refuge is in those whom love me and NOT a jail cell.

My challenge is psychic and spiritual and NOT physical.

Infinite possibilities and combinations... .it "COULD"... .BE WORSE!

Today... .I am grateful for second chances.

 

[Conundrum]

The suffering expressed is overwhelming, but it is not a competition to see who fares worse. Calamity strikes, bewilderment, anger and rage clouds the soul. Because it is unfathomable, beyond the range of ordinary relational experiences. To experience the lightening metamorphosis of what appears to be sincere affection and love turn into detest, blame and hatred--is traumatic. To feel as your existence, conjoined with another, which mattered beyond all else to you personally--is being erased. Your imprint, undone, the futility of it all. This is trauma. And we have experienced it. And we will survive.

We cannot succumb, because if we do, we affirm that our identities are based upon an attachment. Our circumstances may be entwined with a particular attachment, but never our identities, never our beings, never our souls. Recovering from the circumstances of an attachment to a pwBPD may be complicated, convoluted and painful--but a meaningful life is a diverse process, filled with curiosity and an abiding joy for being alive. When it is dark, the pleasantness of being an individual being on this planet seems remote. All seems lost. All seems hopeless. The work to rebuild appears immense. At those times, look within and love yourself. We were all beautiful children at one time, and we remain beautiful adults. This life is still for us. It is ours, and no individual can ever take that away. All things change.             

[Turkish]

Folks, I am struggling with this utter violation.

"Understand that this is 50% your fault"

I am doing my homeworks dilligently. And for the heck of it I cannot trace this disaster to own mommy/daddy issues or similar previous relationships. Yes, childhood was tough but it tought me self-sufficiency. Previous codependencies? On the contrary, I was probably too careless with some girls' hearts and probably broke some in the process. So, where are my faults? Compassion that made me enter? Or stupidity borne out of ignorance that made me stay? Ok, guess I was stupid.

Stupid? I was hard on myself that way, too, but be gentle with yourself. I realize that I had my own idealizations of how to make a relationship work (with a disordered person). Being the single child of a single mother, I was also self-sufficient at a young age (I moved out literally on my 18th bday and could sign a lease!). Perhaps your parents aren't disordered. Maybe this might shed some light for you (I don't know, I am just tossing it out):

Lonely Child-Abandoned Child Dynamic

"You will come out of this a better person/have a better life"

Job lost. Social influence lost. Salary lost. Social network lost. I'll be getting that back and more? I would not bet on it. May happen, just as it may not. But I liked most of my past life that is now gone forever. I am really sorry people do not come back to this board many years out to tell us if bliss really happened, or they spent rest of their lives repairing the damage. Anyway, I'll be in my 40-es by the time I get back on my feet and no matter what happens, nothing will bring back some of the most important years of my life.

That is horrible. I am still in my separating process (though my X doesn't sound as disordered as yours... .yet), and I don't know what is going to happen down the road. We have two small children to deal with. My retirement's going away, that's all I know at this point. And going on the Top Ramen diet soon... .

"But these people are miserable"

In case of high-functioning ones? When exactly? During these 5 minutes before bedtime when there is no validation/company? Let me do some math... .past 2 months x 24/7 pain equals approximately 10 years of being down 5 minutes per day (if). And it will be many more months for me. Oh, sure, she might never happily marry, experience "true" love, have deep friendships... .but where are guarantees that this will happen in my "rebuilt" life? Perfectly normal people spend their lives lacking some or all of this, and I am positive I had much better perspective years before. *I* would not be with me the way I am now.

I can only speak for my high functioning X, but I have enough insight to know that yes, she is miserable most of the time. I know that now. I used to feel like Young Goodman Brown (a short story worth a read) who descended into misery while the "evil-doers" around him prospered. My X puts on a happy face for the world, and her family, even posting to FB idiotic validations making herself out to be something like the abused wife struggling to escape a horrible life (she's completely reversed this!). I don't care what she thinks. In rare moments of clarity, she knows on some level the disorder is within her. My personal view of her is a bunch of identities (waif, Queen, hermit, Career woman, daughter, sister, mother), none of which is integrated, surrounding a swirling mass of pain, centered around a black hole of emptiness. BPDs have various levels of functioning. Those of us with "high" functioning ones often get destroyed the worst. I am still trying to process mine and my situation... .

What I am saying is that never in my 39 years of life was I ever so angry or hateful of anyone. And trust me, I went through some big punches. Helplesness is killing me. Let's be realistic. I will not act on my anger. Life will not "punish" her. There is no atonement to be had.

I (we) got played. Tough luck. Boo-hoo. Deal with it.

Does it really boil down to this?

That's like boiling down life to death and taxes. What a nihilistic and cynical viewpoint. Your anger and hate consume you now, and those are natural and justified feelings... .for now. My X changed for the worse (worse than the usual BPD traits I put up with and enabled for the previous 5 years) after our second child. What a freaking waste. I felt like I was playing God having not one, but two children with a person I know on some level was disordered. My X still has no idea of the impact of her choices by breaking up our family, on our kids, us, even her family. She may not be capable of it, just medicating into a new relationship(s) and repeating the same pattern she did with partners before me (I was by far the longest... .not sure if I should pat myself on the back, or slap myself). Yes, this p*sses me off!

I didn't look for any other posts by you, but you mentioned a pregnancy test, can you elaborate?

[Learning_curve74]

Hey 4815162342, sorry to hear how you're struggling. I think most of us are too, otherwise we wouldn't be here. Three months out from ending my relationship, I still have good days and bad days.

I think as a kind, caring, and compassionate person, it probably did make us more vulnerable to our BPDexes. And it's ok to feel like you got played, that you feel stupid. Get angry! A senior member here (sorry I forget exactly who) said they got a baseball bat and hit the crap out of pillows, I think that is a great idea! Why deny your feelings? We get to choose how to react to them though, and in doing so we help rewire the neural patterns in our brains so our feelings may be different over time. This is our "work".

While I don't want to concentrate on the BPDex too much, realize that she really is probably very unhappy and in pain. Her happiness is a facade. If somebody was happy, why would they need to cheat and lie and hook up with other people? They wouldn't! They are like an addict who is truly miserable and the only thing that takes away their pain is their drug of choice. And even then it is no happy story because they are only ever chasing that feeling of bliss and nirvana that they experienced the first time. But they never can go back and feel that again. I believe this applies to pwBPD and quite often us too who get into these relationships. How many of us wish we could get that initial feeling back?

If you had to do it all over again knowing what you know now, would you do things differently? I know I would. I would acknowledge my feelings more and deny them less. I am NOT going to let this make me any less caring and compassionate a person! I love who I am and only desire to be the best me I can be. But it wouldn't have meant I was any less caring or less compassionate if I hadn't ignored my feelings when she was trying to hook up and throw other guys in my face while totally denying and lying about it!

We can never go back into the past whether it was positive or negative. What good is a happy past if today we are miserable? The past is just a story. And like many stories we can choose to learn something from it, feel happy or sad about it, but it doesn't have to stop us from looking around at where we are today and figuring out what direction we want to start moving in.

Hang in there. 

[EdR]

Hi Turkish,


"I can only speak for my high functioning X, but I have enough insight to know that yes, she is miserable most of the time. I know that now. I used to feel like Young Goodman Brown (a short story worth a read) who descended into misery while the "evil-doers" around him prospered. My X puts on a happy face for the world, and her family, even posting to FB idiotic validations making herself out to be something like the abused wife struggling to escape a horrible life (she's completely reversed this!). I don't care what she thinks. In rare moments of clarity, she knows on some level the disorder is within her. My personal view of her is a bunch of identities (waif, Queen, hermit, Career woman, daughter, sister, mother), none of which is integrated, surrounding a swirling mass of pain, centered around a black hole of emptiness. BPDs have various levels of functioning. Those of us with "high" functioning ones often get destroyed the worst. I am still trying to process mine and my situation... ."

Can I ask you a question about the bold part? Do you mean: she knows/understands at times that she was correctly diagnosed with BPD. Or do you mean: she sometimes knows deep inside that something is wrong with her (undiagnosed).

I am really curious. I somewhat hope you meant the second option. Because that would indicate that there maybe is a little hint of some sort of self-analysis/self-awareness amongst pwBPD.

P.S. sorry for somewhat hijacking this thread... just really curious

[Learning_curve74]

Hey EdR, I saw your post just after mine and wanted to give you another "data point". My exBPDgf is "high functioning", knows she's been diagnosed with BPD, and knows that she is different from most people. She's told me that she is the common link in all her failed relationships, and she says she knows it's her. Obviously, this is only when she is semi-lucid and not in the throes of denial. She has also complained post-break up to mutual friends why can't she ever find a nice guy.      One of our mutual friends ripped her a new one over that -- because yes, I was and am pretty damn awesome  -- needless to say they aren't that chummy anymore. 

However, this is not to say all pwBPD can own up to their issues, most do not and even if they do, that is different from doing anything constructive about it.

[winston72]

Great thread!  Thanks to all for the contributions.

Numbers, I suspect your sentiments are shared by many, many people on this board... .many!  Count me in.

50% your fault?  Nope.  Fault is a bad choice of words as it implies culpability.  Are you responsible for your role?  Yes.  I liken my situation to walking down a dark alley... .with $20 bills taped to my jacket.  Big surprise that I got mugged!  I had no ill intent and was not there to rob anyone, but I am responsible for what I did and for my lack of understanding of what was going on.  So, fault is not an issue, but responsibility is.  And, after reading some of your earlier posts, I am sure you would handle the whole relationship differently... .right from the very first meeting. 

ChangingMan wrote: "I'm still finding memories and incidents that have shocked me." Man, me too!  Just over the past few days I have been reflecting on some early stuff... .I got fried!  But, why didn't I react then?  And, really, I knew something was off in the moment, but I did not react to it.  That reorientation is what is happening for me now.  Slowly, but underway.

She treated you horribly.  Not sure that constitutes being played as it does not seem to be a plan on her part.  But, you most certainly let yourself be treated horribly.  Remember the pumpkin streudel?  What is up with you that such things were allowed between you?  Her behavior broke you down (as it did all of us here... .not by her, but by ours!... .just being clear as she seemed to merit suspicions!) rather than alerted you to split.  That is what you need to own.

I wish I could allow my anger to manifest more distinctly.  I struggle with feeling it... .I want to deny it and that denial maintains some of the unreal thinking about my ex... .so, I am working on feeling the anger.

[maxen]

"Understand that this is 50% your fault"

no, it isn't. this assumes that we on the receiving end are or ought to have superior emotional understanding and that being ignorant or even kept ignorant of another's emotional composition is somehow acceptable. we all have emotional quirks, but some of those quirks don't victimize other people.

"You will come out of this a better person/have a better life"

this sort of talk is patronizing. i certainly hope i recover and and making very intentional efforts to do so, but nobody knows what the outcome will be. some of the ones who won't be posting here are the ones who could not stand the violation and degradation and ended it.

"But these people are miserable"

in their way they are, but they've made you that way too, by objectifying you. and objectifying isn't ok.

I (we) got played. Tough luck. Boo-hoo. Deal with it.

Does it really boil down to this?

for them, yes, because they don;t want to/can't face their responsibility to others. (after my r/s with the narcissist ended (not the current situation) she said in a rage, "it's done now, can't you get over it?" and often (but not always) for their friends and family. you must reach out, because anyone who hears your story honestly told will understand the moral aspect. on this site, for example. can you get in therapy?

one thing you can control: don't let this happen again. 

[Turkish]

Hi Turkish,


"I can only speak for my high functioning X, but I have enough insight to know that yes, she is miserable most of the time. I know that now. I used to feel like Young Goodman Brown (a short story worth a read) who descended into misery while the "evil-doers" around him prospered. My X puts on a happy face for the world, and her family, even posting to FB idiotic validations making herself out to be something like the abused wife struggling to escape a horrible life (she's completely reversed this!). I don't care what she thinks. In rare moments of clarity, she knows on some level the disorder is within her. My personal view of her is a bunch of identities (waif, Queen, hermit, Career woman, daughter, sister, mother), none of which is integrated, surrounding a swirling mass of pain, centered around a black hole of emptiness. BPDs have various levels of functioning. Those of us with "high" functioning ones often get destroyed the worst. I am still trying to process mine and my situation... ."

Can I ask you a question about the bold part? Do you mean: she knows/understands at times that she was correctly diagnosed with BPD. Or do you mean: she sometimes knows deep inside that something is wrong with her (undiagnosed).

I am really curious. I somewhat hope you meant the second option. Because that would indicate that there maybe is a little hint of some sort of self-analysis/self-awareness amongst pwBPD.

P.S. sorry for somewhat hijacking this thread... just really curious

Hi EdR. She has stated,

"I can't control my emotions, I hate this!"

"I feel so empty... .what is the source of my emptiness?" (found this in her journal)

"Why do I think everyone cheats? Why do I think this about everybody?" (journal entry... .in this, she became the embodiment of her own worst fears)

From an actual conversation... .she stated she knew she became just like her dad (cheater/abandoner) and she hated herself for that, but she can't process the "why."

She is constantly searching online for terms to define what is going on with her. The other night, I saw she pulled out one of her old survey course psych books, looking and searching. I flipped through it and the reference to BPD was less than a paragraph. It's an old book... .and from a survey course. She won't find answers there. She stated to me a month ago that she thinks she has an attachment disorder (partially correct). I found later, however, that she was looking up "foster care personality disorders". I had told her that her paramour probably had one or more based on what she had told me, and that she told me he had been in foster care. In a twisted way, she was doing this to mirror/attach to him, Weird!

I really don't know what I can do other than drop some hints here and there. She is still in my home, at least for another month. She may swing into a deep depression, which in a way may offer her a moment of clarity. Everything I've come to learn, however, is that it is NOT the right thing to do to throw out the BPD to them. I did once two months ago (before we/I tried to work it out and then ended it when I caught her pathologically lying to me about the paramour).

I am taking this one day at a time. Unfortunately, I observe her youngest S going down a depressive spiral. Since I am pretty sure her older S is affected, and one of her younger S has some BPD traits, this is a HUGE thing that is affecting the entire family. Like IMF says, I f**king HATE this disorder!

[Johan]

I could deal with being 'played' if that was all it was...

It's the hurtful things and smear campaign which is why I do not see it as a simple 'got played' and the fact being the bigger person, the humiliation, lies, and people not knowing the truth...

I personally keep telling myself, I am a good person... .I don't need to get revenge and tell people truth, and I'm slowly convincing myself that I'm proving to myself how big of a personI am... although sometimes I get angry and want revenge... .

But I know if i told people about her mental illness it would destroy her, she has said it of me to people that im a skitzo / bipolar... .many months ago I was a lot worse than now...

Like EdR mine is high functioning, and knows she has being diagnosed but does not know label and I ended up bring it up after breaking up trying understand my own withdrawal and attacked... .this is where I was labeled it by her too people. It's easier accept people think you are mentally ill when you have confidence to know your not... my ex when finally being rational via email, then said there is no stigma about mental health... .that's when I realized as great as she looks and getting on... she's n denial... .

You can't talk someone in denial... so I heard... I noticed my ex minimizes her anger towards me when brought it up... .think she's too ashamed talk, and admit so I'm painted black... still need be bigger person...  I seen her for first time in months and it was alone in place we both know... she look traumatized, never seen her face like it... it scared me... .she then walked passed me with a man then... but alone she looked like such scared little girl...  

Have to be the bigger person... its more than being played... or maybe I'm too soft.

[zkirtz]

What I am saying is that never in my 39 years of life was I ever so angry or hateful of anyone. And trust me, I went through some big punches. Helplesness is killing me. Let's be realistic. I will not act on my anger. Life will not "punish" her. There is no atonement to be had.

I (we) got played. Tough luck. Boo-hoo. Deal with it.

Does it really boil down to this?

That's like boiling down life to death and taxes. What a nihilistic and cynical viewpoint. Your anger and hate consume you now, and those are natural and justified feelings... .for now. My X changed for the worse (worse than the usual BPD traits I put up with and enabled for the previous 5 years) after our second child. What a freaking waste.

Very interesting topic and understandable points of view... .


To me it sounds nihilistic to expect some justice/vengeance, here or in the afterlife. Equally it doesn't sound helpful to me to think about how "(s)he will get wat (s)he will deserve". I must say I recognize the emotion strongheartedly. But I feel this is not the right way to look at it.

Actually I'm in the middle of leaving right now. I left in April but every month I´m being haunted by death threats and abuse. I had a beg-mail again, that usually precedes an death-threat-mailbomb. I am SO frightened he'll trespass and look me up, though this is almost impossible. Yet somewhere I can't help thinking it is partially me and my inability to say no and choose for me, that is equally to blame. Please remember this as well, if I am found in a pool of blood tomorrow morning (I guess Im frightened for nothing as always). Somewhere below, I know this is the disease (the symptoms) that I am frightened for.

Neither do I think that it is helps, to keep a stiff upper lip in the show of violence. Although I recognize it so much! It is a wrong thought to think things like Tough luck. Boohoo. It is unforgiving to the self, while this self is absolutely not to blame for strong reactions to all this suffering. Where is the end to such harshness? "So you just died today, tough luck. Boohoo."? The only way to escape this self-inflicted evil is to transcede yourself and think what you would think in the 3rd person. What if it did not happen to you but to your favourite grandmother? Of course you would forgive and comfort her!

And lastly I do not think it is nihilistic to conclude that life just sucks. Mainly because it just does! I guess this is exactly what should make us stronger... .We now should be more able to respect that precious life and the few decennia that we have left in this earthly place. We are all in thesame boat here. We die in the end and in the meantime, its nothing special either, if it isn't particularly gruesome. So the only thing left to do is to help each other make life at least slightly less unfair and less horrible.

[Waifed]

Al anon... .

You didn't cause it

You can't control it

You cant cure it.

IT DOESN'T MATTER.

We must all change ourselves and move on.  :)etach, Surrender, Forgive... .Move on.

Another interesting thing I heard from a book I am reading was "We (codependent types) all must admit we need help".  I found this a pretty profound statement because most of us (including myself) state that pwBPD should be blamed for their actions because they know something is wrong with them and they refuse to get help.  Funny thing is we would not have stayed with these people if we were healthy.  We are just as much to blame for the brutal relationships that we have been through... .even if you don't consider yourself codependent.

[Turkish]

Al anon... .

You didn't cause it

You can't control it

You cant cure it.

IT DOESN'T MATTER.

We must all change ourselves and move on.  :)etach, Surrender, Forgive... .Move on.

Another interesting thing I heard from a book I am reading was "We (codependent types) all must admit we need help".  I found this a pretty profound statement because most of us (including myself) state that pwBPD should be blamed for their actions because they know something is wrong with them and they refuse to get help.  Funny thing is we would not have stayed with these people if we were healthy.  We are just as much to blame for the brutal relationships that we have been through... .even if you don't consider yourself codependent.

totally agreed, Waifed. Good stuff. I may try to find some Al Anon meetings myself soon after mine moves out and things get settled (yeah, right... .I know they will get worse!).

The trouble I see here, and I am not there yet (and hope to never be) is from parents with BPD children. You can't just abandon your child. But you certainly can enable him or her. Those, I think, are the toughest situations of all. We can grow out of our BPD parents (at least on the outside ;^). We can leave our pwBPD ), but our kids?

[Waifed]

I don't know if we are supposed to mention books but two really helpful ones for me were: Codependent No More by Melody Beattie and The Power of Vulnerability by Brene Brown. 

[Waifed]

Al anon... .

You didn't cause it

You can't control it

You cant cure it.

IT DOESN'T MATTER.

We must all change ourselves and move on.  :)etach, Surrender, Forgive... .Move on.

Another interesting thing I heard from a book I am reading was "We (codependent types) all must admit we need help".  I found this a pretty profound statement because most of us (including myself) state that pwBPD should be blamed for their actions because they know something is wrong with them and they refuse to get help.  Funny thing is we would not have stayed with these people if we were healthy.  We are just as much to blame for the brutal relationships that we have been through... .even if you don't consider yourself codependent.

totally agreed, Waifed. Good stuff. I may try to find some Al Anon meetings myself soon after mine moves out and things get settled (yeah, right... .I know they will get worse!).

The trouble I see here, and I am not there yet (and hope to never be) is from parents with BPD children. You can't just abandon your child. But you certainly can enable him or her. Those, I think, are the toughest situations of all. We can grow out of our BPD parents (at least on the outside ;^). We can leave our pwBPD ), but our kids?

I completely agree.  I think all you can do is love them with all your heart, maybe somehow try to explain to them mom's situation and have them talk with a therapist while they are still in their developmental years.  In a way you are a bit lucky in a sense that you know she is mentally ill and are alert to the fact that it may affect your kids.  Hopefully genetics doesn't play any part and your love alone will get them through. 

[Turkish]

I don't know if we are supposed to mention books but two really helpful ones for me were: Codependent No More by Melody Beattie and The Power of Vulnerability by Brene Brown. 

we can as far as I  can see. I started reading  Stop  Caretaking The BPD/NPD.  It was released this year,  and she breaks down the BPD  criteria in more detail that makes  my " diagnosis"  even more sure.  I'm taking a  short break reading some fiction currently... .  reality is just too much for me right now 

[bpdspell]

4815162342,

You got some pretty good responses but if it helps try not to be so hard on yourself! You are abusing yourself with a disempowering script and you don't deserve that. I understand your feeling unfairly victimized, and I understand your rage but know that these feelings once validated will pass.

So no. You did not get "played." I think that perspective is a bit dismissive to the complexities of engaging with someone who's adept at hiding a mental illness.

I know that it's difficult to see the bright side in all of this but you will get through this if you can find it within yourself to shift towards healing. Stop treating your BPD ex like she's the period at the end of your life's sentence. She's not the beginning and the end of life and she certainly is not the giver of life. There is a tomorrow without them in it.

As for their suffering... .anyone who treats people the way our ex's do are internally miserable! The evidence is in how they treated and discarded us like an old soup can (thanks Fiddlestix!) High functioning or not... .how you treat others is indicative to the amount of compassion, love and joy that lives inside of you and with oue BPD ex's that amounts to very little.

But when we're consumed with our own pain it is difficult to process how all is not well with them either.

I understand the need to want validation and evidence of their internal suffering but having a mental illness is no picnic. No one gets you, your communication skills are off, your relationships are broken and damaged, your shame is intense, you feel faulty, broken, unacceptable, deformed and immensely flawed as if you were born with some kind of incurable curse. Jumping from person to person is not fun; it's escapism and repression that only returns to haunt your thoughts whenever there isn't a moment occupied with distraction.  I would say that our ex's are suffering pretty damn badly but the good news is that it's not your problem.

My question to you is what do you want from here?

You have the opportunity to re-gain yourself in a new way by leaving the past where it belongs; in the past.

Spell

[zkirtz]

Thank you so much for the vulnerability share. That is an awesome tip, i found this TED lecture of that power of vulnerability and indeed... .

www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCvmsMzlF7o

So actually our codependency is something we can take pride in... .

[LaSuede]

[quote author=Conundrum link=topic=212971.msg12339007#msg12339007 date=

We cannot succumb, because if we do, we affirm that our identities are based upon an attachment. Our circumstances may be entwined with a particular attachment, but never our identities, never our beings, never our souls. Recovering from the circumstances of an attachment to a pwBPD may be complicated, convoluted and painful--but a meaningful life is a diverse process, filled with curiosity and an abiding joy for being alive. When it is dark, the pleasantness of being an individual being on this planet seems remote. All seems lost. All seems hopeless. The work to rebuild appears immense. At those times, look within and love yourself. We were all beautiful children at one time, and we remain beautiful adults. This life is still for us. It is ours, and no individual can ever take that away. All things change.              [/quote]
Yes. Thank you. That is needed to be repeated to me.

[Ironmanrises]

Does it really boil down to "you got played, deal with it... .?"

Yes... .

If the other person was not disordered... .

And had feelings for you... .

That were continuous... .

And just decides... .

To screw you over... .

Because that person is an a$$hole... .

Or just likes their cake... .

And eats it too.

The real answer is... .

No.

We fell in love... .

With a pwBPD.

An insidious disorder... .

That destroys those... .

Whom get closest to them.

Us.

You.

Me.

Getting played... .

And deal with it... .

Would be heaven... .

Right now... .

In comparison to the aftermath... .

Of being with a pwBPD.

Someone that played you... .

Isn't going to all of a sudden... .

Have intense loving feelings for you... .

Only to annihilate you again... .

Only to... .

Do that over and over... .

Again.

It doesn't lessen the hurt... .

But we didn't get played... .

In my opinion.

[PhoenixRising15]

I've only got a few things to add to the above. 

First off, my ex used to tell me in our times of fights, about how she used to be so miserable before she found me, with the emptiness of casual hookups, make outs, and then the lonely cab ride back home.  She told me the only thing that mattered to her was love.

Looking back at her instances of cheating, she actually told me, I thought I was never going to talk to you agian, I thought I'd never have you again, I thought you were gone.

Now, that doesn't excuse it, but my ex is young, just developing these things, and yet her pattern is emerging.  These are the experiences you may not have heard about from her.

It doesn't make it right, it just makes it reality.  She's got a life script that says everybody leaves, and she makes sure it happens.

The other point, on being played.

I tried to be a player in college.  Not something I'm proud of.  I hurt many people in the process.  I thought it was cool, what everyone cool was doing, how to "be a man".  I told myself I was in it for the casual sex, but what I really wanted was a relationship that I didn't know how to have.

So, did we get played?

No, I don't think so.  I think we got hurt.  Really bad. 

To get played, the other person has to actually get what they want and move on. 

Unfortunately, I don't think my ex, or any of our exes truly played us, because they didn't get what they really wanted, long standing unconditional love.

Not by any fault of ours.   God knows, we've all read this board and know the sacrifices we've tried to make to give them that unconditional love.

But somehow our exes manage to self-sabotage to prevent them from getting what it is they really want.

All in all, it seems they only played themselves.

[fromheeltoheal]

The suicide rate for borderlines is 6 times the average; more confirmation the disorder is no walk in the park, although they are fond of sharing their pain.

[Conundrum]

The suicide rate for borderlines is 6 times the average; more confirmation the disorder is no walk in the park, although they are fond of sharing their pain.

So true. Empirically they are the most troubled of souls. Often our suffering disabuses compassion. Rising above our base nature is the way... .

[Numbers]

Wow. Just... .WOW. Thank you all for gracing this thread with some of the most constructive input I ever received.

I am much better today. No need to worry, this too shall pass , and depression or anger will return. Dealing with this anger is a new thing for me. In past life, my "normal" reactions to attack or harm would be passive-aggressiveness, or I'd become cynical or mean for a period of time. I was essentially avoidant of conflict. This free flowing anger is... .strange. But liberating. Then again, I feel shame after anger passes (does this sound normal?). I did not and will not act on it, but when I recall all the evil i wished upon her e.g. yesterday, I cringe.

You reinforced what I felt already. That our recovery cannot be facilitated or accelerated by hoping for cosmic justice or balance. This is a bit different from everyday life, where if abuse comes to you, you DO have options to pay back. At least to "put the offender in place" (For example, if someone vandalizes your car, you can get justice and reimbursement through legal system. Not the same, but illustrative of mechanic). It is especially hard for me now, after so many recycles, when previous soothing tools somehow do not work anymore. And on top of it she parades around at her lifetime best while I look at million little broken fragments not knowing where to begin mending.

I'm exercising, eating better, have lost 2-3 stone in weight, look really good, am treating myself to loving care. I have no idea what's going to happen to me now, it all feels a bit late.

Yeah, me too, lost 20 pounds (seriously), never looked or dressed better. But I feel ugly and unattractive. And this feeling of lateness is killing me. 36 vs 40 might not sound like a big deal, but there are some purely mathematical realities. I will never be a dad in my 30-es. Big deal? Maybe not, but another one of my dreams got shattered.

39! That is young. Look around you. Every day and I mean EVERY DAY I see examples... ."for the grace of God there go I".

I appreciate, even encourage such thinking. But the truth is, you can rationalize anything in this way. "I might have ended like Travis Alexander. Yipeee! Lucky me". If you generally live a good life, is expecting good things to come really such a sin of pride?

To experience the lightening metamorphosis of what appears to be sincere affection and love turn into detest, blame and hatred--is traumatic. To feel as your existence, conjoined with another, which mattered beyond all else to you personally--is being erased. Your imprint, undone, the futility of it all.

Conundrum, I love your writing style. my expertise is advertising/market communications, so from educated POV, you might look into finding ways to capitalize on it!

I didn't look for any other posts by you, but you mentioned a pregnancy test, can you elaborate?

Yeah, that's a new one. This last recycle started to fall apart. Then I sit her down and finally tell her about borderline traits. She is receptive but rationalizes that, well, if I am so educated about her psyche, how come I cannot handle her better (LOL). Then she wanted to separate (but remain friends) because "whatever she does, I will just see it as disorder". Bad idea, yeah, I know.

A few days later, her period is late. She was not faking it, I was in charge of tracking her dates (hilarious). What followed is an exercise in cruelty. She understood it was over, understood that she is most probably not pregnant (medical in nature on both sides), understood that until the time it's confirmed she is not, she has me cornered. And went in for maximum possible harm. We can rationalize till kingdom come that it was unintentional, not premeditated, disordered, but net effect is nuclear devastation. She played every devaluation, push-pull, gaslight and pure abuse imaginable, and then some. Want some best-ofs?

-":)ear, let's talk. This is important for me, you, both."

-"It's not my first time"

-":)ear, we agreed to do HPT today after work, I bought one, is it ok for me to come over?"

-"I have an appointment with hairdresser"

-(to nurse) "Please send the bloodwork to both our e-mails"

-"NO! I DO NOT WANT YOU ASSOCIATED WITH ME"

A week later she gets it, wants to meet and "exchange feelings". I could not. NC with few hiccups since.

I can only speak for my high functioning X, but I have enough insight to know that yes, she is miserable most of the time.

... .realize that she really is probably very unhappy and in pain. Her happiness is a facade.

... .anyone who treats people the way our ex's do are internally miserable!

... .

I understand the need to want validation and evidence of their internal suffering... .

I do not find myself hoping that she suffers now as much as I am. The feeling is more a desire, borne out of cognitive dissonance, that we can be happy together.

But for the sake of argument... how do we know they suffer so horribly? Is it professionally established truth or just an amalgam of our wishful thinking (self-validation), their statements (which should be taken with grain of salt - she is a professional victim - of course she will claim to be perpetually suffering) and application of low-functioning profile to high-functioning. What if she is actually happy having no obligations and unending supply of validation and enjoys making others suffer. Mine for sure had some pretty sociopath attitudes.

To get played, the other person has to actually get what they want and move on.

... .

All in all, it seems they only played themselves.

Thank you for this angle. It does ring true on so many levels, no matter how hard it is to see it this way at this point in time.

I will keep trying to get out of this with love. After hate subsides, at least I will have this love to keep me warm and to give to somebody new. I will fall many many times on this path, and I will be coming back crying or raging. Perhaps this makes me an ultimate fool, perhaps not. I'd have had no doubts a few years back, but this disaster taught me that road to hell truly is paved with good intentions.

But I promise that when all is said and done, I will return here and tell you if there really was light at the end of tunnel.

Love, D.

[Learning_curve74]

I'm glad to see you are feeling better today, 4815162342. 

how do we know they suffer so horribly? Is it professionally established truth or just an amalgam of our wishful thinking (self-validation), their statements (which should be taken with grain of salt - she is a professional victim - of course she will claim to be perpetually suffering) and application of low-functioning profile to high-functioning.

On this one point there is a lot of evidence if you search for writings by pwBPD, people who've recovered from BPD, and medical/scientific journal articles about BPD. And I've seen it close up and in person from my exBPDgf when she was drunk and her emotions were coming out full force without the barrier of being self conscious. She is a very tortured person.

Keep your chin up, 4815162342. When we spend all our time staring at our feet, we miss the beauty of the world and all it's opportunities. 

[bpdspell]

But for the sake of argument... how do we know they suffer so horribly?  What if she is actually happy having no obligations and unending supply of validation and enjoys making others suffer. Mine for sure had some pretty sociopath attitudes.

I myself once wasn't so sure that my ex suffered in misery but when my rage subsided slowly I was able to see how embittered and black my ex's heart really is.

If there's one thing I learned from this experience is that everyday people hide their misery well; almost expertly because there's a shame and social stigma to admitting that we're emotionally struggling and that no: we don't have it all together.

If all of us on here were to walk through a crowd could people easily point out who suffers from who's not suffering? No. Because most of us are suffering internally.

But with our ex's the proof in their suffering is how they treat others and how they treat themselves. That's your proof because people who are happy and love themselves simply do not operate in consistent toxic dsyfunction.

The rages, the caged heart, the old grudges, the "you owe me" entitlement, their unstable sense of themselves, their damaged narrative of feeling unlovable, their low self-respect (sleeping with anything under the sun), and not to mention the DEEP SHAME that comes with covering up a mental disorder and pretending to feel normal. All of that faking, all the time is super PAINFUL. No one "gets" them. They are essentially spinning their wheels deeper into the abyss of their own insanity digger a deeper ditch of self-hate along the way.

They're imbalanced and lost and no one or no material thing can fix it.

Need more proof?

Spell