Irritated on waking?

[monqui]

Has anyone noticed the BPDs in their life being easily irritated on first waking up? Giving waking up on the wrong side of the bed a whole new meaning. Also, do people with this tend to sleep longer than most people?

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[2pts]

My dBPDexgf was some days, yet other days, just after waking was the best time to talk to her without rage.

I read on here of a pwBPD that awoke angry at their partner for something they did in the pwBPD dream. That happened to me once.

[123Phoebe]

Has anyone noticed the BPDs in their life being easily irritated on first waking up? Giving waking up on the wrong side of the bed a whole new meaning. Also, do people with this tend to sleep longer than most people?

Hi monqui

It sounds like mornings aren't so fun around your place?  First thought that came to mind... ."Monqui could be talking about me some mornings."    

I think once we're aware of BPD it kind of becomes a go-to place for all negative behaviors; it's because of the BPD!  When some of it is simply individual issues cropping up that many people experience from time to time.

I live alone so most mornings can be eased into with some quiet time and a good cup of coffee.  People close to me know that it takes a little while to wake up and become civil; don't be asking me a bunch of questions or else... .   

Sorry if I got off on a tangent, hey, it's the morning here!

I guess what I'm trying to say is to be careful about applying BPD to things that make us feel uncomfortable because it's not always the case.  Be mindful of our uncomfortable feelings and where to go with them from here... .   

[Love Is Not Enough]

I believe it could all be biologically connected somehow. Unfortunately we do tend to get so enmeshed with all of this that we see BPD everywhere. So it is hard to determine what is or is not connected. Maybe my next career I will be get my degree in psychology and conduct research on this. I do find the biological and environmental factors fascinating and I have many theories about how it all comes about.

My experience has been that my pwBPD, and a few others I suspect have similar issues, tend to sleep very hard and have vivid dreams. My gf and her daughter can sleep 20 hours straight. They are definitely not morning people and my gf has warned me on several occasions to give her some time to get going. I have also gotten into to trouble for things I have done in her dreams. I think my favorite was for having sex with her pregnant friend from high school that I have never even met. She was really upset that she had to witness that and she was very rude to me for several hours after. All I could do was chuckle to myself.

I think as more research is done they will find more connections between biological factors and BPD. My theory is that people are biologically more emotionally sensitive and things (or choices they make) happen to them to "activate" the worst of it. And this is more likely to happen earlier if they grow up with people who also have it. My gf did not grow up with her mother (who I also believe is a pwBPD) and she did not "activate" until her late teens when she got involved with her NPDex. Her younger sister (also pwBPD) did grow up with their mother and is a total dumpster fire (thank you Waddams for my new saying). She did everything she could to have a baby and is now homeless. She rages at and uses everyone in her life. My gf has not had contact with her for months now and is upset she does not know how her nephew is doing.

[Mono No Aware]

Yes. My uBPDw being woken up during deep sleep = instant rage, black-painting, abuse, etc.

Not fun when the baby starts crying and she has to breast-feed him. Then she splits him black too.

I read on here of a pwBPD that awoke angry at their partner for something they did in the pwBPD dream. That happened to me once.

I once got woken up with a hard kick in the side based on one of her dreams. That was a new low. Now it's a boundary.

[monqui]

Thanks so much everyone! I hope the comments keep coming because I find this really interesting. 123Phoebe (might have your tag wrong) I very much appreciate your perspective, but I honestly don't think I'm trying to catch a negative behavior here & explain it away by a diagnosis- it's just something I noticed a clear pattern with and it got me to wonder if it's pervasive across people with BPD. I'm curious about the brain & how we process things- and living with & loving someone who has BPD served to make me even more so. Let me first state that I'm no neurologist so I may have terminology &/or function wrong, but it I've read there's a link between BPD & malfunction in the amygdala. Any areas where there's clear cut patterns can serve as clues in how that differing functionality plays out. If sleep and waking behavior are markedly different in a BPD individual than the average Joe, there may be clues in the waking state of someone w/BPD tendencies. Perhaps on waking the thoughts/emotions are even more likely to get stuck in this area of the brain (emotional) and never make it to the analytical & rational part of the brain? My ex not only got easily angered in the morning but also told me of a tendency to get stuck in negative thoughts of distant past & shame/guilt and repeat this again & again as soon as she woke up, and so would sometimes choose to just sleep, sleep, and sleep some more. If this isn't an isolated thing, and the brain does in fact have plasticity, it seems to me that the waking hours then might serve as an ideal time for people with BPD type tendencies (who are actively trying to change) to expose themselves to words/thoughts/meditations that work to soothe or heal themselves. Or maybe it's actually the very worst time- not sure, but the brain does learn patterns, so if you can work to open it up to jumping out of the learned patterns & into new areas, maybe it actually can alter a person's tendencies. At any rate, it seems to me worth looking at as a window to understand what's going on with a BPD mind.

I'm relatively new to this BPD diagnosis, and am shocked that if it is indeed so common, why isn't it more in the common knowledge/vernacular, and studied more? Maybe it is and I've missed it, but I consider myself a pretty well read and curious person & I didn't know what it *really* meant until recently.  Thanks all for any insight regarding the people you love and their sleep patterns... .I just keep trying & trying to understand. I guess that's sorta my own personal therapy.

[123Phoebe]

Hi again monqui,

I'm curious about the brain & how we process things- and living with & loving someone who has BPD served to make me even more so. Let me first state that I'm no neurologist so I may have terminology &/or function wrong, but it I've read there's a link between BPD & malfunction in the amygdala. Any areas where there's clear cut patterns can serve as clues in how that differing functionality plays out. If sleep and waking behavior are markedly different in a BPD individual than the average Joe, there may be clues in the waking state of someone w/BPD tendencies. Perhaps on waking the thoughts/emotions are even more likely to get stuck in this area of the brain (emotional) and never make it to the analytical & rational part of the brain?

Has your partner been diagnosed?

Your perspective is appreciated too, as well as your interest in trying to understand the disorder better.  There are a lot of common traits among people with BPD that you'll read about on all of the pages here.

Personally speaking, coming from someone who grew up with an undiagnosed mom, the sleep patterns and waking moments that you're describing don't apply to her.  She was and still is a very light sleeper, an early riser and is quite cheerful in the morning!

Is she the exception?  I doubt it.

Here is an overview:

BPD: What is it? How can I tell?

This next link has been very helpful in understanding our own part, how our behaviors/reactions can contribute to the dysfunction:

Before You Can Make Things Better, You have To Stop Making Things Worse

I apologize for not knowing all your relationship history, but looked at your intro post and you are no longer a couple?  I'm sorry for that and would imagine you're experiencing all kinds of thoughts and feelings right now.

It's a very complicated disorder.

Please try to take very good care of yourself and keep reaching out for support.  We're here for you  

[HowCouldYou]

My BPDW has awaken angry at me for something that I "did" in a dream on several occasions over the years. She will know that it is illogical but can't shake the feelings for hours.

She also sleeps way more than what is considered normal. Wakes up in a great mood or bad mood depending on how much sleep she has had. The more sleep the better, up until a point, then too much sleep can affect her mood.

[connect]

My uBPDbf is awful in the mornings. I have also asked the same question as you before:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=196225.0

I am sure I have read somewhere that seratonin levels are lower in the morning? Dont quote me on that as it's just something I thought I read somewhere.

Anyhow I have seen some awful moods from my bf as soon as he wakes up when he was happy as larry before he went to bed. I try not to talk to him for about half an hour.

[Changingman]

Yes, don't talk to me in the morning was the cry of my x. Thought it was hang over from the booze. Not true just a stinky personality disorder. I think they are much more aware than anyone will admit, fiends!

[AnitaL]

Mornings at first wakeup are often the worst for my uBPDH as well.  Usually it is due either to anxiety-ridden dreams, or the reverse -- the letdown after a good dream with the sudden realization that he has to face (his) reality and is just too tired/angry/sad to deal with it.  Either way there is kind of a looming sense of doom about the day that is tough for him to break out of.  Exercise or getting the kids to school are the two things that seem to help him get past it, and poor weather (esp on dark grey winter days) makes it much worse.  I'd guess it's quite possible that this is an issue with his brain chemistry.

[Seashells]

Just chiming in here.  I'm an adamant believer that it's brain chemistry at play in many of these disorders.

The whole history of treating mental illness leaves it behind many other physical disease in progress.  The brain is the least understood organs of the body even today.

The progression of science is coming around.  Do some research on the brain scans of those who have been diagnosed with some of the most severe mental illnesses and it's not hard to see there is a connection.  However, the "chicken or the egg" coming first theory still abounds.

And I will readily admit, just like Phoebe, people in my life know that it's better to let me have my coffee before having a meaningful conversation.  I'm not a morning person in general. 

[waverider]

My partner is the reverse of this. In the morning all the woes of yesterday are forgotten,. Each new day is  a whole batch of new ideas, big plans and big talk. Also 8-10 hours of not taking pills.

As the day progresses and plans dont come to fruition, new reasons to be peed off with people, and more meds, means that by evening hypochondria has set in with a multitude of ailments, excuses for not doing this or that. Sense of failure and just all round just moaning and being a pain. Not to mention my failing patience.

I'm happy when she heads off for bed, and its my time to come here and unwind

[connect]

Waverider - you sound as though you have had a long day with her today! Am I right? 

[briefcase]

My wife is a very light sleeper and doesn't sleep in very late. Mornings are generally better than evenings in my house, but not always.

Things like sleeping in and staying in bed late may indicate depression, which can also afflict people with BPD. 

We have a lot of members who report difficult mornings with their partners . . . and a lot of members who report difficult nights with their partners.  I think the commonality is more in the consistent difficulty with our partners, and not so much the time of day the difficulty occurs.  Sleep patterns in people with BPD might be an interesting thing for the pros to research, and maybe they have.  I'll see what I can find. 

[an0ught]

Yeah, I'm with briefcase on that one. We can always search for patterns and try to explain the unexplainable. Our mind is made for learning new stuff. Then based on these patterns we adjust our behavior and we have done one more step into crazy land. Keeping things simple is important for our own sanity.

What can be a useful strategy is to raise some awareness in the pattern. It is a fine line however not to blame the partner that "you are ALWAYS grumpy in the morning" but telling her that "well, you tend to be grumpy in the morning but you still love you for being you".

1) it is a balanced and to some degree validating message

2) it build some self awareness

3) the self awareness may help in the future to avoid you getting blamed for her feeling bad. This may happen when she has internalize that feeling bad in the morning is normal for her. No reason to worry and search for the innocent culprit in form of the next best non.

[bpbreakout]

Monqui, my BPDw is exactly like this and also tends to get irritable in the early evenings. She also has bad dreams (often about me abandoning her) and it's so real for her she spends a long time "de-briefing" about what I have done in the dream and whilts there isn't any raging she is clearly dissappointed when I don't apologise to her for things that I have done in the dream. She also will sleep for a long time if she doesn't need to go to work and on the weekends and sees this as a virtue and gets very frustrated with me as I am a morning person. We have learned to give each other space in the mornings while I get the children going and ready for school. My take on it is that it's an anxiety thing somehow related to transitions during the day. I think the process of getting up and getting ready for work which is making her anxious and irritable. In the evenings she gets very irritable around meal times so unless I have orgnanised the meal its a big issue and a lot of arguments happen around this time. Similarly bed time can be difficult. I'm not sure there is any rhyme or reason other than a hyper sensitive person reacting to everyday transitions over the course of the day.

[123Phoebe]

Here's a true funny story that happened today.

Had a repairman to the house, he was very open and talkative, an all around nice guy.  He apologized for being so talkative and hyper, stating that he wakes up all energized.  And it drives his 7yr old son NUTS!

His son will say, ":)addy, can we have some quiet time, please?"

I started cracking up, thinking about this discussion. 

The repairman said laughingly, "He is not a morning person.  I get him back though... .  Around 8pm I say to him, "Son, can we have some quiet time, please?"  He gets it!  We get each other!"

It's a joke between them.  They've worked out their differences in a kind, loving and lighthearted way

I just thought, man oh man, what we can learn from children

[waverider]

Waverider - you sound as though you have had a long day with her today! Am I right? 

It's always a long day. Doesn't mean its a bad day, just a full day at times and it is good to unwind at the end of it.

[Grey Kitty]

I think that everybody has a daily cycle... .some part of the day you are at your best, energized, etc. Other times of day, you are lower energy, and more likely to do something bone-headed.

I also think that somebody suffering from BPD is likely to turn their bone-headed moments up to 11 

In my household, I'm the night person who is slow to become functional in the morning, and my wife (both when she was suffering from BPD and now) tends to bounce out of bed with great energy, and lose it more as the day winds down.

[waverider]

In my household, I'm the night person who is slow to become functional in the morning, and my wife (both when she was suffering from BPD and now) tends to bounce out of bed with great energy, and lose it more as the day winds down.

Thats pretty much me

My teenage daughter is   before 8am then  for the rest of the day