High Functioning Borderline mothers

[StarStruck]

Hi,

Elsewhere on the web I hear a lot about low functioning BPD but hardly anything about high functioning. ie: When they are more like Narcissists.

I have also come to the understanding that Personality Disordered people don't just fit neatly into one brief. They score on other elements of P.disordered scales? eg some NPD are more sociopathic than others

I would be really interested and I'm sure a whole load of us on this forum, in hearing from people that have any ideas on this.

How different is a high functioning to a low? Is your parent a high?

I'm reaching out for some like minds who have been through what I have and do you think they are a rarer breed of BORDERLINE?

Lots of hugs as always  

[MovingOnInMyLife]

I don't know if high functioning is more rare or not. I do agree there is some overlap of personality disorders.

My mother is BPD and NPD, for sure. She is high functioning. Other than being fired from some jobs and calling in sick a lot to work, she has always held down employment. (She has lied about being fired and tried to cover it up.) She owns a home. She seems mostly financially stable although she does clearly have money problems. (And there have been many lies around money over the years.) Also, very few people are aware that she is dis-ordered. She has had many friends and co-workers over the years who think she is wonderful. But she also doesn't maintain these relationships for very long. Those who have known her well and for many years are usually the only ones who are aware of her personality disorders. She hides it well. I would say that is a good definition of a high-functioning BPD.

I'm thinking a low functioning can't hold down a job or is usually unemployed, and someone who is often homeless... .can't function in society very well without a lot of assistance. There are many of those!

[Up In the Air]

Hi there!

My MIL is a high-functioning unBPD. She does have some traits of NPD, but doesn't quite fit the full deal. I, too, find it kind of fascinating how some personality disorders overlap.

I don't know about a percentage of people with high versus low. My guess is that the high functioning have an easier time hiding it and it's not obvious to others (diagnosed or otherwise), so often times they are not so obvious to the public.

In my experience and from what I've read, high functioning can hold jobs, appear to be 'normal'. Most of the people in my MIL's life have no idea she has mental health issues, those that are relatively close do sense something is 'off'. She would continually change jobs and rarely has friends who she 'trusts'. She's highly manipulative and able to convince people into agreeing with her, or coercing for whatever reason she needs. My therapist said a huge giveaway was her voice - how it changes pitches as she's speaking, depending on the topic. I was fascinated by that, as I had never read about it.

From what else I've read, low functioning, like MovingOnInMyLife said,they have trouble holding jobs, have a hard time functioning in society or at social events, can be suicidal, many of them 'waifs', and also often are more willing to accept help for their disorder.

[GeekyGirl]

How different is a high functioning to a low? Is your parent a high?

Good question! I agree with you and MovingOnInMyLife that there is a good amount of overlap between NPD and BPD. I've heard that many high-functioning people with BPD can have some NPD traits. There's an interesting line here:What is the relationship between BPD and narcissism (NPD)?

There are NPD tendencies in all of us. It is when it it affects someones ability to function in life that it would seem to be NPD.

Most BPD's have a touch of narcissism in them, since they have such immature emotional ways of thinking and responding, and we know that children are notoriously self centered. I guess the difference is that someone who is BPD is capable of showing some compassion or real caring, without the undertones of buttering you up or manipulating you like a pwNPD might.

This makes sense... .someone with BPD who may be self-aware enough to know that he/she is upsetting others may also have NPD traits that help them keep up the disruptive behavior.

There might not be a solid line between high functioning and low functioning. My mother, like MovingOn's, wouldn't appear any different to most people--maybe she'd come across as a little overly outgoing or quirky, but most people don't see how she is behind closed doors.

Do you think that it's more difficult having a parent who is high functioning than one who is low functioning?

[petridish]

Thanks for bringing this up!

I think my mother (uBPD) is high-functioning. What that means to me is that she can be pretty normal seeming, albeit overly out-going/quirky like Geekygirl's mother, in many situations with most people. Despite probably ADHD, she has never been impulsive in dangerous ways. She took her children's physical and intellectual needs very seriously and I'd say did quite a good job meeting those for us overall. She can even be a really empathetic listener and often has random strangers open up to her (I think it's partially tied up in needing to be liked).

BUT. She also relied very heavily on us to meet her emotional needs at times and certainly found it incredibly difficult/impossible to parent with consistency and with emotional sensitivity. She lashes out most often at us WHEN we are hurting and express it (I should note that, for me in particular, perhaps 1/4 of the time I'd reach out, I'd get exactly the kind of empathetic, loving, reassuring, supportive mother I so deeply wanted, which was just enough to keep me trying). She is extremely defensive much of the time. She takes anything that isn't praise as criticism and takes any criticism as condemnation and then becomes a martyr. She seems to pick fights with those whom she thinks should take care of her as a way of resolving some sort of psychic distress. She very very rarely apologizes, and THAT is a significant improvement from my childhood, when she would NEVER apologize, but she still doesn't seem to always get what an apology is (hint: it isn't just to make the topic go away). She tends to be paranoid about other people's motives and assume they don't like her. She is very generous to individuals, but also has an incredible sense of entitlement along with exceptionalism when talking about society. She tends to be very self-centered when interacting with those she knows love her. She thinks she has all the answers.

Does this mean she's more likely to seek help? I don't think so. For one thing, she is able to keep from lashing out and showing her pain to those who might call her on it and whose opinion she wants. She certainly does a lot of self-help and new-agey type reading from time to time, but most of it seems to be for the validation, rather than as part of any critical self-reflection. Nothing is ever her fault.

She and I tried counseling together after my father started losing his memory, because we were interacting more and it wasn't going well (part of it was that I lost my support for reassuring me that my mother loved me despite the painful things she said to me and that she just wasn't able to show it like a mother should, part of it was her response to my father's decline was to create significantly more chaos and start picking fights with him and antagonizing him, which I now see is her feeling of being abandoned -- in her mind, it was just that I was weak and disturbed and she loved me enough to try), but it just escalated and increased our fights. It was really absolutely awful for me as the counselor seemed to be focused on me meeting her needs and me being held accountable while giving her a pass -- i.e. a repeat of my childhood, minus the mitigating presence of my father. Many of the stories of couples counseling on this board ring very true to my experience.

My mother has always wanted to be friends with my friends. I do not discourage that, though I have told her I don't like to hang out together because I would prefer to spend time with her one-on-one and I won't arrange play-dates. At this point in my life, I feel confident in my friendships and I know that my mother can be really fun.

I would say I'm still lucky to have my mother being high-functioning rather than low-functioning. The hard part is sorting out her really hurtful and emotionally abusive behaviors from the rest of it, especially when they aren't always super-clear, and trying to understand what's going on enough to protect myself when I can't predict which mother I'll get at any given point. But I also really lucked out in my father who, while an enabler, really did mitigate and try to mitigate a lot of her lashing out and instability.

[WiseMind]

I think my uBPD mom is a little of both.

She does have some narcissistic traits which I believe she gets from her father. She can shield the fact that something is 'wrong' from most people. She has a daily routine and life. However, she has not had a job since she was in her 30s (she is 63). I am not entirely certain but I think she likely was fired from a job or two. In my opinion she just does not want to work. She can't follow instruction or take direction from people that are superiors. She hardly ever finishes anything she starts - examples being college, learning Braille and translating books, volunteering. Commitment issues? She doesn't have many friends at all except for her two sisters and my endad. She cannot function emotionally without my dad's support. She would completely fall apart. I can also remember as a teenager or kid my mom always had food issues and was a very aggressive driver.

So extrapolate from that what you will. To me it seems like she is high functioning but she displays many of the low functioning characteristics. She refuses therapy of any kind because 'I'm 60 years old and this is who I am. I'm not going to change myself now.' <---- direct quote. I am not sure she thinks she has any issues, which may go back to the narcissism. It is everyone else who has the problems and has never apologized for anything she's done wrong because she doesn't think she HAS done anything wrong.  

-WM

[MovingOnInMyLife]

It was really absolutely awful for me as the counselor seemed to be focused on me meeting her needs and me being held accountable while giving her a pass -- i.e. a repeat of my childhood... .

YES! YES! I can relate. This is more than awful. It can be very damaging to those of us who have suffered through this relationship with a BPD mother.

Unless a counselor truly understands BPD and knows your mom has it, s/he CANNOT help in these situations.

I am so sorry you went through that because it is adding insult to injury... .or salt to a gaping wound. AWFUL.

Hugs.

[StarStruck]

Hi everyone - I am bowled over by all this knowledge, understanding and sharing of your experiences. When I logged on to read the replies I couldn't believe what I was reading and how it mirrors my experience. It's gut twisting to realize all the heart ache these people cause. All this knowledge that has sprang up is a strange mixture of feelings for my personal situation of both tragic and interesting.

Hi MovingOnInMyLife - Interesting how clear cut you are about the BPD and npd mix and the fact that nobody knows apart from people close to her, they can even think she's wonderful.   It's just incredible isn't it, I've found my experience with this odd and must have found it isolating growing up. The inconsistency of being charming to others but really you know how nasty she can be. I remember thinking how strange it was to see my mum laughing out loud at something someone had said - just to see her laughing - sort of made me feel cross. Like how dare she just flow with it because that's what she tries to inhibit in me, type of thing. It's really rotten.

UpIntheAir - Hi! I am so struck by what you have said;

My MIL is a high-functioning unBPD. She does have some traits of NPD, but doesn't quite fit the full deal.

So much like how I would describe mine.

My guess is that the high functioning have an easier time hiding it and it's not obvious to others (diagnosed or otherwise), so often times they are not so obvious to the public.

I agree, it's just not obvious in anyway especially to anyone that doesn't know what to look for. They have the skills to hide it well. Actually even when you know what to look for it's tough.

... those that are relatively close do sense something is 'off'.

I like how you've described that 'off' - & that 'off' hiding a manner of turbulence.

coercing for whatever reason she needs.

I didn't even really think about this for years and years. Then it struck me; she does it all the time, to the point that it didn't stick out of the norm.

My therapist said a huge giveaway was her voice - how it changes pitches as she's speaking, depending on the topic. I was fascinated by that, as I had never read about it.

This has blown me away - I first noticed that she used to do this when I was speaking to her on the phone. Her voice would change for her need. This is the first time I have heard anyone mention this - it's truly insightful. (& scary they do it at all)

are more willing to accept help for their disorder.

So true for the Low's, with High's not even admitting to themselves let alone to some else and be labelled.

(Hope you & your family are well & you're winning!)


Hi HarmKrakow-

Put it IQ wise. It's that simple.

Really interesting. Makes sense. and yes the big fat question mark we're left with.

I did know a 'clever' low functioning borderline at college but she unfortunately had serious dependency issues. Therefore maybe therefore she was a high with dependency issues but then again dependency would make her a low functioning... umm.

Like GeekyGirl mentioned perhaps sometimes no 'clear' definition or line with some and maybe this girl was on the overlap between.

Interesting question GeekyGirl;

Do you think that it's more difficult having a parent who is high functioning than one who is low functioning?

I've had a good think about this and think the best answer I can give is that. The experience to be brought up by a High Functioning or a Low Functioning is just as awful but different. The difference in impact each one would have is hard to imagine or quantify. The dynamics of your whole family play such a huge role. If these variables were accounted for in a scientific study. ie: Relationship with the fathers whether they live at home or not etc. I think this could be found out. I should imagine the results would be very insightful and would offer up solutions of how to prevent damage limitation to the children.

Hey with more and more knowledge and understanding and brains on this; someone somewhere might do a study on this.

I have read interesting stats on the likelyhood that a child born of one parent with BPD will go on to have BPD themselves and the numbers are a very low percentage. The child will always naturally side towards the good parent (or other good caregivers - they act as a good bench mark). God that makes me well up. Higher stats for those born to a NPD. Maybe because NPD and BPD parents make a pair some of the time. Apparently a bit of a usual combo.

also

If our parents are high functioning, we might be more inclined to see ourselves as flawed or "bad."

Really interesting point. Totally agree. childs perspective-"well they seem to be telling me and everyone else they are getting it right, so it must be me that's wrong"

Hi petridish -

Thanks for bringing this up!

Thanks for your post!

There's a lot of things I can emphasize with here; bits in particular:

She lashes out most often at us WHEN we are hurting and express it

She is extremely defensive much of the time. She takes anything that isn't praise as criticism and takes any criticism as condemnation and then becomes a martyr.

She very very rarely apologizes, and THAT is a significant improvement from my childhood, when she would NEVER apologize, but she still doesn't seem to always get what an apology is.

She thinks she has all the answers.

Nothing is ever her fault.

It was really absolutely awful for me as the counselor seemed to be focused on me meeting her needs and me being held accountable while giving her a pass.

Must have been awful for you, thank goodness you're past that.

The hard part is sorting out her really hurtful and emotionally abusive behaviors from the rest of it, especially when they aren't always super-clear, and trying to understand what's going on enough to protect myself when I can't predict which mother I'll get at any given point.

That's the thing with High's it's so cranial... .trying to understand what's going on while you're conversing with them is like a quiet battle in your head. That for me sometimes doesn't make clear sense until I'm driving on up the road. We aren't like them are we - we think logically.

Hi WiseMind - Thanks for sharing this, really interesting, describing the mix of characteristics your Mom has. It lends more understanding how this high/low is perceived and the boundary or foggy patch in the middle. I'm beginning to think some people can rest in the middle. Maybe due to the degree of narcissism involved. Obviously mixed together with all the other traits they/we all have.

has never apologized for anything she's done wrong because she doesn't think she HAS done anything wrong.  

Blimey this comes up all the time doesn't it. Exactly like mine. It's incredible. something that has always been apparent and shocking given how hot she was on manners with me and doing the right thing (the nerve of it). Denial to them must be a huge thing.

RIGHT THERE'S ONLY ONE THING FOR IT - I HAVE MADE YOU ALL MY FIRM BUDDIES I HOPE YOU'RE ALRIGHT WITH THAT :D x  THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR A GREAT CHAT!

[isshebpd]

I think socialization can make BPDs high-functioning. My BPDmom is the daughter of a decorated WW2 veteran officer (was on the front-lines). She spent a lot of her childhood at military ceremonies and was generally aware how she needed to maintain a presentable image in the community. After their father died, my BPDmom and her sisters all ran into trouble in their lives.

[StarStruck]

Hi - Yes agree issheBPD, must be a factor, interesting.

My family: My grandad was uNPD (im sure of it) and I know put alot of pressure on her to be, do and say the right thing. Keeping up appearances and how she reflected on him was highly important. There's not a proper boundary with them, they see their children as an extensive of themselves.

[nomom4me]

My mom has NPD traits, she lacks the instability of the typical BPD.  She maintains a lovely home and was always very Martha Steward when I was growing up.  Until recently there was much more in print about BPD but my mom is high functioning.  Most of what I read about NPD focuses on high functioning individuals in traditionally male-dominated jobs (like attorneys, CEO's etc) but there have been a couple articles on Nmoms recently on psychologytoday.com;

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-intelligent-divorce/201311/the-narcissistic-mother

This one has some interesting examples and info on how to break the pattern as a parent

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/compassion-matters/201304/the-dangers-narcissistic-parents

What I have not seen in print is info on how a BPD or NPD parent can condition her kids to date or marry someone with those traits, I have a good relationship now but certainly dated some N-holes in my younger years.

[StarStruck]

Hi nomom4me -

Thanks for adding article links!

What I have not seen in print is info on how a BPD or NPD parent can condition her kids to date or marry someone with those traits, I have a good relationship now but certainly dated some N-holes in my younger years.

I have read some stuff on this: apparently its because a child of a disordered person gets accustomed to that behavior so allows it to become an acceptable part of their adult relationship. The Child sort of feels 'at home' with this partner but without realizing walked into the lions den. The adult child may feel they can save them, to make them right. Deep down maybe trying to fullfill what was wrong with the relationship with the disordered parent.   

[GeekyGirl]

All this knowledge that has sprang up is a strange mixture of feelings for my personal situation of both tragic and interesting.

Oh yes, missful! Mourning is a huge part of the healing process, and for many of us, learning about BPD stirs up some conflicting emotions.

RIGHT THERE'S ONLY ONE THING FOR IT - I HAVE MADE YOU ALL MY FIRM BUDDIES I HOPE YOU'RE ALRIGHT WITH THAT :D x  THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR A GREAT CHAT!

LOL! Yes, we're all in this together.  

Do you think that high functioning BPD parents are most likely to have NPD traits? There's some interesting perspective between BPD and NPD here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=90388.0.

[MovingOnInMyLife]

I remember being 14 or 15 years old and still living at home with my BPD mom. She controlled almost everything about me, including who I dated (or couldn't date). At one point, she made me go out on a date with one of her co-worker's sons. After being his "girlfriend" for a short period of time and attending a formal dance with him, I broke up with him. I had never liked him in the first place. She gave me the silent treatment for about 3 weeks. And this was while living with her full time - which was extremely awful. It consisted of evenings at home where she acted as if I wasn't in the room with her, wouldn't make eye contact (or would glare at me), and ignored me if I tried to talk to her or ask her questions. It was a very long and painful 3 weeks. Nobody else in the house got that sort of treatment, and nobody stood up for me or tried to intervene (including my step-dad). I think my sister was always just grateful that she didn't get the brunt of my mom's rage and hatred. I remember thinking at the time that the feelings of that boy were more important to my mom than the feelings of me (her own daughter). I was trained over and over and over again that my needs, wants, desires, and feelings didn't matter. I was expected to date who she wanted me to date - regardless of who I liked. I remember her telling me when I was about 13 and going to my first afterschool dance with boys that if a boy asked me to dance, I HAD TO say YES, even if I didn't want to, because it takes boys a lot of courage to ask a girl to dance.

It is no wonder that at the age of 18, I allowed boys to have sex with me if they wanted to, regardless of whether I wanted to or not. I remember lying there allowing boys to violate me and never daring to say NO.

So, yeah, 3 weeks. As an adult, she's given me the silent treatment for months on end, but it was different because I lived across the country and had my own life.

[GeekyGirl]

My mother pushes people away and gives them the silent treatment as a way of punishing them. She hasn't spoken to any of her 4 siblings in years, and she has gone months without talking to me (and ignored any calls/e-mails). She simply cannot deal with conflict and that's her way of avoiding it. It's a way of telling someone "You don't matter, so you can't hurt me." It's a coping method that is unproductive and doesn't resolve any conflict, but it makes the person giving the silent treatment feel like he/she has the upper hand.

Some of you may have already seen this, but I think it's worth taking another look at: BPD BEHAVIORS: Silent treatment - verbal abuse..

[Changingman]

My xW (s14, d15) is very high functioning, very NPD/BPD, when I realised had a while trying work out which. I think they wander all over the cluster B disorders. I hate you don't leave me' describes her completely. When she'd act outrageously and said get out I'd leave and within 2 weeks the text/phone calls would start... .You've ruined my life, I'm having to move back in with my parents, why don't you fight for me... .even though it was her actions that split us.

Years later she is doing this today with her new SO. Really strong NPD traits mixed with terrible fear of abandonment. No friends left, her SO  disappears every few months to keep his sanity. The kids are sick of her selfishness.

But earns great money, high flyer, manipulating people is the mainstay of her job (weird huh!) really good at it.

If I engage with her even for 2 texts it turns dark and controlling.

I have kept it LLLContact for 8 years and she screamed at me last week... .' When the youngest is 18 I won't have to see you ever again!'

I have talked to her maybe 4 times a year, for 6 years . Amazing

[StarStruck]

The adult child may feel they can save them, to make them right.

Me too! a couple of uBPD and last bad relationship ended with a uNPD. The NPD stood out as being very different from the BPD ones... .maybe why I thought at the time that 'he had it together.'

(Just had a thought though about the low and high BPD thing... .both my ex uBPD's had drink probs though but both high functioning also in professional jobs. Binge probs; evenings etc. So dependency issues alone clearly don't define a low or high. IQ could be a determiner.)

LOL! Yes, we're all in this together.  

back at ya  


Hi Changingman

My xW (s14, d15) is very high functioning, very NPD/BPD, when I realised had a while trying work out which.

Me too on this, I started looking into just NPD for my mom because I was familiar because of my ex (a uNPD) but it didn't fit quite right. The High Functioning BPD, seems the best fit of all.

I think they wander all over the cluster B disorders.

Totally agree - their personality being spread over the cluster b disorders.

It's such an eye opener when you realise it's an actual 'thing' isn't it but blimin scary too.

Sorry to hear you ever had the pleasure off bumping into one off these loons.

[StarStruck]

TYPO! Changingman -

Sorry to hear you ever had the pleasure of bumping into one of these loons.

Make sense girl! ha.

[nutshell]

I don't have a High Functioning BPD mom, but I do have one heck of a high functioning BPD dad.  He is considered within his specific industry an innovator, leader, game changer, etc.  He is extremely successful, and for the most part well liked, and if not liked, at least respected for his knowledge.  However, he is an alcoholic, had dependency issues with prescription meds, problems with money and debt (he likes to spend), but keeps all of this carefully concealed from his acquaintances.  He can be charismatic when needed, charming almost, and empathetic to his advantage.  The few times I tried to reach out to an adult as a child about what was going on in my home they flat out did not believe me, and thought I had issues and was a liar. Very damaging.  He is very good at hiding his true nature around others he doesn't know or doesn't want to see how unstable he is.  He is a totally different person with his family than he is with others.  It boggles my mind.  He gets extra kudos because my brother and I are adopted and HE LOVES to tell people all the time that he adopted us to get extra pats on the back, then tells my brother and I we should be grateful to him since he adopted us and he didn't have to.  It's all so bizarre sometimes I have a hard time distinguishing truth from lies.

[StarStruck]

Hi nutshell,

Your Dad certainly sounds like he has got a heavy dose of narc traits. How did you come about to realizing he was a BPD? Have you completely discounted that he could be a NPD?

Few things about narc's;

Does he get frustrated easily? Is he controlling? A closed book?... .not happy to share his OWN opinions in front of others, almost like you are left thinking, who is HE exactly. Does he show any weakness in front of others... ever? Is he aspirational and very judgmental. Does he lack creativity? Does he feel shame easily? Does he go along with the majority in the room? Has he always got to be on the winning side? Does he like to delegate? Find small jobs below him to do? Lazy but first to say how much effort he's made? Likes to be praised for the smallest effort? Cold? Insincere? Rather run over a cat then let it make him late for work? Will not put himself out, unless he benefits?... .& possibly even looks down upon people that do, thinking it's a weakness to be kind. Have true empathy of any kind?

BPD are sensitive about things that effect them (at first it look like they are sensitive people but closer inspection only sensitive to their own needs and requirements). Whereas the Narc's don't show sensitivity, they keep a 'still' front. You might see that lost child inside him for a split second but very rarely compared to a BPD.

There are different types of Narc's just like borderlines. A lot of them don't wear their 'vanity' on the outside. Even the difference of whether they are introverts, extroverts, right brain, left brain can make a huge difference.

I'm sorry if you have thought about all this before. I just didn't want to not mention in case something new in there for you. I know it's a tough ride having a family member like that.

(Welcome to the club nutshell!... .there's a lot of lovely people on here, we all muck in to help one another.  

[MovingOnInMyLife]

Your Dad certainly sounds like he has got a heavy dose of narc traits. ... .Have you completely discounted that he could be a NPD?

After reading nutshell's post, I thought the same thing. He sounds totally NPD.

Nutshell, if your mom is BPD, there is a good chance your dad is NPD. They tend to choose each other.

[sophiegirl]

I really only discovered the term BPD this year. Previously  I described my mother as depressed with a persecution complex. she would be described as high functioning, she had a good job, good with money and had a very ordered life with an odd obsession with maps. However she is negative, insulting, demands attention for everything and emotionally abusive to me - her 'love' for me as a kid was totally conditional and of course I never met the grade, didn't matter how hard I worked or tried to please her it was never good enough, she never came to sports day even though I won everything to make her happy, I went to university and got a good job after but all she could say was that I hadn't met and settled down with a doctor?. as for BPD relationships, I frequently say I've married my mother. Of course now I realise I've married someone with some very similar traits as I recognised those traits as love. However since we had kids and my mother now lives next door he has improved immensely and when I say 'yes mother' to him he'll see the funny side.  Friends and relatives will tell me what a wonderful job mother did bringing me up on her own and having to go to work too, I have done so well, the credit goes to her. She will say that yes it wasn't easy and I will keep my mouth shut

[StarStruck]

Hi sophiegirl

Friends and relatives will tell me what a wonderful job mother did bringing me up on her own and having to go to work too, I have done so well, the credit goes to her. She will say that yes it wasn't easy and I will keep my mouth shut

That's rubbish it takes away everything what you are in one sentence doesn't it, like she's trying to own it... .own you... .When YOU are YOURS.

They do not have clear boundaries do they. While they are trying to boost they're own self esteem they take away from yours. Nice to hear that even though there was a bit of worry about similar traits with your Mom that you and your husband relationship works though. Great.

[nutshell]

Hi nutshell,

Your Dad certainly sounds like he has got a heavy dose of narc traits. How did you come about to realizing he was a BPD? Have you completely discounted that he could be a NPD?

you know I never honestly considered he could be NPD, but it does fit better.  I'm just now understanding he has a mental illness of some sort, and BPD was the closest I could get to it.  It's an ongoing thing.  The rages, the tantrums, the hate you/love you mentality of it all.  Thanks for the food for thought!

[StarStruck]

Hi nutshell

It's a real job finding the best fit isn't it. I had an uNPD partner. I made a point of reading as much as I could, from then on he came up with text book examples of it time and time again.

I knew he had issues but didn't realize what before. It was through learning about my Mom uBPD that I found out about him (at first I thinking NPD for my Mom).

Good luck with all the info you find. Found it tough reading but when you're driven to find answers you just get on with it don't you.

[whitemouse]

Hi nutshell and everyone,

I know I'm a bit slow off the mark replying to this post, but I really appreciated reading all your posts about your high functioning uBPD parents. I have one too (mom).

Like many of you, I didn't realise that my mom had a problem until I was an adult. My uBPDm got a lot worse as she hit her seventies. She was a model mom, kept the home spotless, cooked for us every night, and had many friends. As a kid, I was protected from a lot of her worst excesses. It was my nonBPD dad who copped most of her verbal abuse, name calling and belittling, and her outbursts were daily. But always behind closed doors.

I find one of the hardest things now is the reassessment I'm having to make about my family, my upbringing and my childhood. I always assumed they were pretty much normal. Suddenly, I realise now they're not, and that's a bit frightening. Now I'm looking at my negative qualities in a different light. My low confidence, negative self view  - are they due to her domineering influence? Its a bit scary thinking of yourself in that harsh objective light.

Has anyone else had that experience?

[StarStruck]

Hi whitemouse -

Sorry to hear you've had your eyes open to this recently.

I remember I found it very shocking too. How my life was going until I found out made perfect sense when I realized about 'this'.

You feel angry, confused and maybe alone when you first learn. I found the best way was to learn as much as I could about it.

I think that growing up with a uBPD Mom your self esteem takes regular knocks.

If you feel this is still having an effect at how you view yourself now because of this experience, I would think one to one with a therapist to help you help yourself in being the person you want to be and ACTUALLY are would be great.

Or you may feel that you can resolve this yourself and that thinking you've found the reason why you feel lacking in confidence may help you rise above. Do whatever you feel is best for you.

It was horrible realizing but a complete eye opener to me, so glad I pieced it together. I remember thinking, there is actually a word for this - it explains everything. I haven't looked back.

Very very best of luck with your journey whitelion  

[PrettyPlease]

How incredibly frustrating. I've experienced this with a SO uBPD and a friend uBPD, on numerous occasions. Logic isn't used in any kind of rigorous way -- instead they create a reality that satisfies their own inner fears and needs. It's stunning when it happens like this, back to back, in a way that would make any 'normal' person shake their head and say, 'uh, do you realize that you're contradicting yourself'?  But of course doing that with a BPD just leads to further logical leaps and/or emotional dysregulation.

We have to learn how to tolerate what they feel/think is true. Or go NC. (Or get them into therapy; but not a lot of chance of that).

PP

[StarStruck]

Hi PP,

I really like how you've described it. This is just what it feels like when you are talking to one.

Talking of a friends girlfriend;

The conversation is a strain; a mixture of made up logic to support her own insecurities, changing the goal posts in the conversation, then that mixed with direct inappropriate questions where you have you boundary setting tested.

They act desperate in company, the hurt is very obvious and sad to all in the know but like you say unlikely to get help. It would seem they sink the boat with everyone in it.

[PrettyPlease]

Hi StarStruck,

I'm glad you like it, and it's completely accidental because my reply doesn't belong in this thread. I don't know how it got here. I checked through and I haven't read this thread before.   

I tried to find the thread that I actually thought I was replying to on Dec 22, but can't. It had something to do with how pwBPD talk in loops, change the subject, tell lies, forget things... .     Oh well. 

PP