Did WE truly love them...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

... .Or was it the simple fact that they filled a void in our lives that was so desperately needing filled?

Something I am currently debating in my head right now.

My own feeling is that WE needed them and that is why most of us put up with the nightmare.

How could anyone love someone that throws so much abuse at you?

They made us feel like we had met our soulmate from the very moment we met. The intimacy that we all needed and was missing?

[strikeforce]

... .Or was it the simple fact that they filled a void in our lives that was so desperately needing filled?

Something I am currently debating in my head right now.

My own feeling is that WE needed them and that is why most of us put up with the nightmare.

How could anyone love someone that throws so much abuse at you?

They made us feel like we had met our soulmate from the very moment we met. The intimacy that we all needed and was missing?

[samthewiss]

Dear Strikeforce

I am sending you a link to an earlier post that might help you understand the dynamics of your relationship.

read the post that begins with

"

Pees, I copied and pasted an old post i got from someone on the board. I needed to read it several times to "get it".

It really helped me understand why my heart hurt so much. "

[waver]

Hello Strikeforce,

Short after my beloved Mum's medical diagnosis I fell in love with my uBPDbf. I’m not proud of it, I’m married.  The r/s started 1 week before my Mum’s death. 

Although I feel that I am or was desperatly in love, I’ve been pondering how could love evolve under such circumstances.

Yes, I think in this case he „filled a void in my life that was so desperately needing filled”.

[strikeforce]

Dear Strikeforce

I am sending you a link to an earlier post that might help you understand the dynamics of your relationship.

read the post that begins with

"

Pees, I copied and pasted an old post i got from someone on the board. I needed to read it several times to "get it".

It really helped me understand why my heart hurt so much. "

Thank you 

[strikeforce]

Hello Strikeforce,

Short after my beloved Mum's medical diagnosis I fell in love with my uBPDbf. I’m not proud of it, I’m married.  The r/s started 1 week before my Mum’s death. 

Although I feel that I am or was desperatly in love, I’ve been pondering how could love evolve under such circumstances.

Yes, I think in this case he „filled a void in my life that was so desperately needing filled”.

Hi Waver   Welcome to BPD Family 

I was in the same place. I was desperate for love or at least some female attention.

She gave me more than I could have wished for. Its the lack of self love that got me into the BPD relationship.

[waver]

Strikeforce,

thanks for welcoming me. I'm quite diffident in posting...  

[strikeforce]

Strikeforce,

thanks for welcoming me. I'm quite diffident in posting...  

No problem 

How do you mean different?

[Ironmanrises]

For me, i loved my exUBPDgf more then i loved myself. That has had disastrous consequences on me. 

[waver]

Diffident, not different   

I mean shy, fearful... .  English is not my mother language.

[strikeforce]

Diffident, not different   

I mean shy, fearful... .  English is not my mother language.

Ah sorry, my mistake. Your English is very good

[bpdspell]

Love is a funny word to me because it can be a noun, a verb or an adjective. Love is a feeling, an action, an experience or all three so therefore love cannot be "defined" one way. And on these boards some of us aren't' comfortable with the fact that love wears many faces.

The face of love that I shared with my ex was carnal deep lust, amazing sexual chemistry, fantasy based, erotic, sweet and salty, sensual, all consuming, addictive…in many ways I had to have him in spite of the evidence that unraveled before my eyes. In spite of the lies, the abuse, the gas lighting, the cheating and the recycles there was something in it for me that I didn't want to let go of.

There are many on here who (understandably so) are righteous and indignant in their anger and allow those angry feelings to color how BPD's are incapable of love. In truth, Love boils down to the two people in the room who shared feelings and no one outside of that experience can define that. My ex told me he needed me, saw me as a mommy replacement, showed acts of desperation, clinginess, envy, jealousy so I believe that we loved each other.

What we both lacked was capacity because we both had unrealistic expectations of each other. His capacity was disordered and mine was fantasy based.

Outside of copious amounts of sex my ex and a similar childhood background of abandonment and neglect (it's what made him feel like my soul mate)... .my ex and I had very little in common. We argued all the time, had different interests and we both tried to control each other.

I've loved three men in my life and the love that I felt for them were expressed in three distinctive experiences.

So did I love my ex? Yes. We bonded in an intense way. And I will never forget him.

Spell

[RecycledNoMore]

Hello Strikeforce,

Short after my beloved Mum's medical diagnosis I fell in love with my uBPDbf. I’m not proud of it, I’m married.  The r/s started 1 week before my Mum’s death. 

Although I feel that I am or was desperatly in love, I’ve been pondering how could love evolve under such circumstances.

Yes, I think in this case he „filled a void in my life that was so desperately needing filled”.

I got together with my uBPDx, on xmas eve 8 yrs ago, I found out that day, my dad was diagnosed with cancer, I too have been pondering the question, did I really love him? Or was he just in the right place at the right time?... .

[strikeforce]

Right place at the right time.

Unlike me who was in the wrong place at the wrong time to meet her.

But we cant turn back time.

She was what I needed at that moment, someone to have in my life. I was so desperate to have love.

[BuildingFromScratch]

For me, i loved my exUBPDgf more then i loved myself. That has had disastrous consequences on me. 

Same... .but it was a sick, misguided love. You lose your ability to be a person, when you do this, even to friends or non-BPD girlfriends. Your identity becomes a partial identity or a non-identity. I was a slave, much the way the BPD person is a slave. It's just the BPD lashes out at everything for the slavery that they feel. And people like us submit to it.

[waver]

Right place at the right time.

Wrong place at the wrong time.

Today morning I’ve caught a text message from his girlfriend no. 3.

The girl’s father (suffering from cancer) was taken to the hospital yesterday, because of some sudden sickness.

She’s writing she is happy that her father is getting better and is taken  home. And she is very grateful, and says many thanks to her? my? uBPDbf to be with her yesterday…

The same, my God.

God bless the bpdfamily. Without you I think I would have been mad today morning. 

[RecycledNoMore]

Right place at the right time.

Wrong place at the wrong time.

Today morning I’ve caught a text message from his girlfriend no. 3.

The girl’s father (suffering from cancer) was taken to the hospital yesterday, because of some sudden sickness.

She’s writing she is happy that her father is getting better and is taken  home. And she is very grateful, and says many thanks to her? my? uBPDbf to be with her yesterday…

The same, my God.

God bless the bpdfamily. Without you I think I would have been mad today morning. 

 

And the cycle begins again,the world is their stage, and we are merely players.welcome waver

[waver]

Thank you  recycledNOmore

[bb12]

It wasn't love

They completely filled a void

But upon closer analysis, this void was so big that you've actually NEVER been in love

BPD or not. Because all of our past relationships were used to fill that void

Only when we love ourselves do we stop trying to fill that void

IMHO the pwBPD was a long overdue wake-up call

Gratitude replaces resentment more every day

BB12

[necchi]

B12 !

  Real,cognitive statement. Can't be contested .  That is mature ruminating material .

.                              MERCI

[Lao Tzu]

BB12, you totally nailed it.  This is a recurring theme on this site and the last time I stated this point (far less succinctly) the thread was deluged with people saying there was no question they were in love, regardless of what someone else experienced.  I imagine the same response from posters and lurkers to this, as getting to the point of understanding this is a huge challenge.  The truth is, however, that it's what we have to accept if we want to ever fully recover from the toxicity of the r/s with a pwBPD.  Thanks for the clarity.

LT

[alliance]

I was not in love with my ex. She came along at a low point in my life. I loved the attention. In some ways I liked the bizarre drama that kept things interesting while keeping me sheltered from seeing the reality.

Honesty be told, she was not the kind of person I would normally be attracted to under normal circumstances. Much too needy, too inconsistent, too critical, kind of shallow, etc.

Sometimes I feel like it was a wake up call. I felt many good things with her, even if they had no basis in reality. But, I did prove to myself I was capable of feeling them.

Finding the right person to share this with is my goal now.  It is there, now I just need to find someone worthy of what I have to offer.

[Turkish]

Reading through these responses, there is much tossing about of the terms "love" and "in love." Thus, it is more confusing than ever until we define our terms.

My X admitted, in a fairly honest and lucid conversation that I did show her unconditional love (I would say this is a bit of an idealization and an overstatement)--- even if there was dysfunction in there in my opinion, not hers. Her definition and need is the fairy-tale, Hollywood, teen-romance "being in love" type of love. As for being "in love" by her definition. Sure, there was at times... .On my side, it was more of a co-dependant love. And this "worked" for a while. When I brought it to the next level, more 3-D, adding kids and responsibility, commitment, etc... .is when she exhibited more BPD abandonment and anger behaviors, and ultimately bolted back to the safe, hollywood love. Intellectually, she is torn between the two. Emotionally, she is wrapped up in the fairy-tale version.

The child like version where mommy or daddy will always be there for them (white)... .or not (black, like our S3 says sometimes, "I don't love you" and then reverses it a few hours later. He has no idea what love is. No gray areas. How can a child be made to understand that mommy or daddy has to go to work? Has to split time taking care of other siblings or family members? Has responsibilities to others besides that child (including to themselves)?

Sorry, probably went off on a tangent there.

[caughtnreleased]

It wasn't love

They completely filled a void

But upon closer analysis, this void was so big that you've actually NEVER been in love

BPD or not. Because all of our past relationships were used to fill that void

Only when we love ourselves do we stop trying to fill that void

IMHO the pwBPD was a long overdue wake-up call

Gratitude replaces resentment more every day

BB12

I totally agree. "Love" has always been a power struggle for me, mixed in with ego and pride.  I lost a war a few years ago, and as I was picking up the pieces and licking my wounds, I met my BPD ex... .I saw him start to position himself for the same battle, and when I read about BPD, I had a bit of a breakdown as I recognized that "normal" for me was actually abuse.

Just a question though... .Does this make us all a bunch of high functioning pwBPD?  (ie: maybe some strong traits of it)  

I felt like I'd known my BPDex since childhood... .even though it had only been a few weeks.  Regardless of the definition of love, these relationships are not ones in which we grow, flourish and are able to pursue our life dreams with a life partner who challenges and supports us.  In fact, it is the opposite, if we stay in them.

[Waifed]

My relationship was dysfunctional for sure. I don't know if it was love. It was a feeling that I long for. I will say that whatever it was I dream of feeling the same way with a "normal" person.  As bad as the relationship was, the feeling when it was good was intoxicating. I remember reading somewhere that they become a projection of the void of love in our lives. Great thread. I would to hear more if anyone can provide links that answer this question "professionally"

[HarmKrakow]

BB12, you totally nailed it.  This is a recurring theme on this site and the last time I stated this point (far less succinctly) the thread was deluged with people saying there was no question they were in love, regardless of what someone else experienced.  I imagine the same response from posters and lurkers to this, as getting to the point of understanding this is a huge challenge.  The truth is, however, that it's what we have to accept if we want to ever fully recover from the toxicity of the r/s with a pwBPD.  Thanks for the clarity.

LT

It makes sense. It's not easy to admit to yourself that you were not in love, because every single one of us, at some point, in the relationship with pwBPD thought it was love. But in reality it wasn't. Far from. But mentioning that, full frontal, can of course kick a few ladies and gents in their bollocks.

Admitting you did something different than what you thought you did takes a lot of courage of oneself.

I wasn't in love with my ex BPD. I did feel at the time however that I did love her.

[bb12]

Just a question though... .Does this make us all a bunch of high functioning pwBPD?  (ie: maybe some strong traits of it)  

And that's the $64,000 question!

My relationship with "love" has been a precarious one my whole life

My issues were coming to a head. I could feel it. Then they exploded when I met my match in my xBPD. And it WAS a match. That symbiotic soulmate feeling I believe is a meeting of the minds. Both damaged but in different ways. 2 sides of the same broken coin: one selfish the other selfless but both wrestling for control and both full of shame and fear.

Codependency is sometimes called inverted narcissism or vulnerable narcissism. I absolutely believe my issues were as severe and ingrained as my ex's

Thankfully, with real effort, accountability and time, we can change. They can't. And so I come to forgiveness and a genuine wish that they will not suffer too much

Bb12

[BuildingFromScratch]

I believe the BPD and co-dependent love each other the only way they know how! It's just not a healthy, sustainable, warm love. It's a needy, desperate, sick, twisted love. But that's all we both had to offer.

[Lao Tzu]

... .[b]Does this make us all a bunch of high functioning pwBPD? [/b]

     Great question, and one we all face at some time if we're honest with ourselves. I considered whether I could just delete someone and move on because someone else got too close. No, everything else they do is a 'maybe', perhaps, but that just isn't something I could ever do. This isn't a value judgement, just an honest observation.

     To me, this is just too aberrant for me to indentify with.  I think that's why many of us are here, too.  We kind of 'get' a lot of the craziness as we've seen it before  --  maybe even in ourselves.  The deletion and it's logical conclusion of moving on instantly to the next r/s is the thing we don't understand.  For me, it was that inability to even understand it that, at its core, meant that wasn't me.

LT

[waver]

I've found an article, it could be interesting for most of us:

Non-BP is a non-clinical term originally coined by Kreger & Mason in the book Stop Walking on Eggshells. The term has since come into popular usage and describes individuals who are in a consistent, and sometimes significant, relationship with a person exhibiting a Borderline character, aspects of Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (C-PTSD), or a formally diagnosed Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). These people can be friends, spouses, lovers, offspring, co-workers, and extended family members, among others.

While Non-BP is a colloquial expression, and not a clinically defined condition or syndrome, the idea parallels that of the roles that people often take on in alcoholic families, or abusive relationships. It is also consistent with the idea of roles described in co-dependent relationships, such as enabler, counter-dependent, and/or agent. Part of the value of this type of informal terminology is that it helps describe the manner in which others potentially behave when in relationship to a person whose social skills are inadequate, in what ever manner that presents.

When talking about the Borderline relationship, the Non-reactive Non-BP is considered to be a person who interacts with the Borderline character, while not being drawn into, or engaging, the chaos of the disorder. The Reactive Non-BP, however, both interacts with the Borderline character, and engages the Borderline behavior. This often throws the person off-center, and promotes a kind of parallel emotional dysregulation within them. The Reactive relationship style breaks down into two distinct sub-styles; transpersonal, or the trans-Borderline, and counter-personal, or the counter-Borderline.

The trans-Borderline is an individual who engages the Borderline character, and is drawn only to the chaos of the disorder itself. Rather, than being directly affected, s/he is more apt to stay focused on "cleaning up" after the Borderline personality. This is something akin to the "caretaker/enabler" role found in alcoholic relationships. In both cases, this person is characteristically co-dependent, or set up to be co-dependent in that relationship. S/he acts as enabler, or agent, or both.

The counter-Borderline, on the other hand, not only reacts to and integrates the Borderline style, but "reflects" it, as well. This individual is the most negatively affected by his/her relationship to the Borderline personality. Very often, this person will begin to behave in a manner very similar to a person with a Borderline personality. This type of relationship is very treacherous and, when talking about chaotic relationships with Borderline personalities, this is the sort of situation to which most people are referring. This type of relationship often leaves the Non-BP questioning his/her own sanity, and the "emotional hangover" of such a relationship can take a considerable amount of time from which to recover.


www.psychologytoday.com/blog/enlightened-living/200804/perspective-borderline-relationships

[snappafcw]

Thinking about this again months on... .Yes we did truly love them. Was it healthy no. I think its good to be selfless and put others first sometimes but not at the expense of losing yourself I do understand that now. We are all kind hearted people here the love for them I think was 100% real.

I think getting out of the fog is probably realising that they didn't love us. It isn't possible the proof was in the behaviour. I think once I came to terms with the fact that people with BPD can never truly love anyone It helped me see things different and have compassion for my ex. No matter what she has and is still trying to put me through with her behind the scenes stalking etc I can't think of a worse punishment than living in selfish sorrow for the rest of your life. I really hope she gets help I still pray for her.