Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
January 18, 2022, 06:51:54 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Harri, Once Removed
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, I Am Redeemed, Mutt, Turkish
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Experts share their discoveries [video]
100
Caretaking - What is it all about?
Margalis Fjelstad, PhD
Blame - why we do it?
Brené Brown, PhD
Family dynamics matter.
Alan Fruzzetti, PhD
A perspective on BPD
Ivan Spielberg, PhD
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: I found this comment provocative  (Read 1938 times)
houseofswans
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 180



« on: November 01, 2013, 12:06:50 PM »

This comment was posted in another thread regarding whether or not it is acceptable to sleep with an ex:

They feel no emotional intimacy because their disorder renders them incapable of it

When I've read about BPD traits on other boards and websites, I've never stumbled upon this before.

This, to me, is a very provocative statement. Is there a solid basis to this 'fact'?

It makes me angry to think that when my ex and I were sexually physical, she felt no emotional intimacy.

Thoughts, please... .

Logged
DragoN
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 996


« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2013, 12:17:52 PM »

Sex= Intimacy for BPD.

Sex= Love for BPD.

Sex= Control for BPD
Logged
EdR
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Friend
Posts: 435


« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2013, 12:21:17 PM »

My thoughts: "the statement is wrong. But is close to a certain truth."


They do feel people coming emotionally close to them. They really do feel when they're really feeling deeply emotionally connected to someone.

It's just that, in that very instant, they're wiring short-circuits. They can't cope with emotional intimacy. That doesn't mean they can't feel it though.


This would be my analysis of the disorder... .


P.S. leaving sex out of the equation here (don't feel emotional intimacy is necessarily related to it)

Logged
EdR
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Friend
Posts: 435


« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2013, 12:22:07 PM »

* their wiring (still can't see the modification-button :-p )
Logged
houseofswans
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 180



« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2013, 12:26:04 PM »

* their wiring (still can't see the modification-button :-p )

It's at the top right of the window (next to the quote icon) when you post your thread  
Logged
EdR
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Friend
Posts: 435


« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2013, 12:28:18 PM »

* their wiring (still can't see the modification-button :-p )

It's at the top right of the window (next to the quote icon) when you post your thread  

It isn't there haha. Perhaps only after a certain time-frame. Or because I am a new member. Or I could just be blind ofc  Being cool (click to insert in post)
Logged
peterparker

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 28


« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2013, 12:30:09 PM »

The way I've come to view this statement is a little different.

I think they can feel what they consider to be emotional intimacy, but it's the emotional intimacy that a child feels. Having their needs met is as far as the emotional intimacy goes.

I don't want to speak for everyone, but part of emotional intimacy for me, is my ability to give selflessly to others and see that it is appreciated. I can do this because I have no core shame, and am not in constant emotional turmoil. When you are, thinking about other people before yourself becomes very difficult, so intimacy becomes reduced to feeling like another person can stop your own pain, not about what healthy adult intimacy and attachment actually is.

My ex was obsessed with always feeling lust and having a physical connection, so when I got the flu, and was stressed because of a new job, that's when she pulled away and found my replacement.

When I think about being physically intimate with my ex, I do believe she did feel love towards me, but it wasn't really love for who I was as a person, but the purpose that I served to relieve the pain of living in her own head. Sex was a way to feel secure that I would continue to fill that role, so when things happened in my life when sex wasn't something I could give her, that's when she found someone else.

So I wouldn't say they feel no emotional intimacy. It's just a different, more shallow, more egocentric form of emotional intimacy than a healthy adult should feel.
Logged
MammaMia
*******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1098



« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2013, 12:32:35 PM »

The "modify" button on the top right of your post does go away after 15 min.

Logged
winston72
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 688



« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2013, 12:38:32 PM »

They feel no emotional intimacy because their disorder renders them incapable of it.

This is a bit extreme, I think.  It isn't helpful to turn people into something less than fully human.  It might be more appropriate to say that there is an inability to sustain emotional intimacy.  We might have experienced behaviors that were cold and without empathy, but I think the presumption that what many on these boards have been injured by is a disordered personality of extreme, dysregulated emotion, not the absence of emotion.  The effect on many of us is intense pain from having periods of intimacy followed by periods of withdrawal without reason.  The experience is acute loss, but it is not from the absence of any emotional intimacy, it is the inability to sustain it.  Perhaps the "inability to sustain intimacy" does not constitute intimacy at all and that is what many of us feel, but again it is not from the absence of such emotions.

I imagine it is another disorder altogether than we have encountered where the person has no capacity for intimacy.  

Just read PeterParker as I was finishing this post... .nicely described!
Logged

EdR
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Friend
Posts: 435


« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2013, 12:43:09 PM »

They feel no emotional intimacy because their disorder renders them incapable of it.

This is a bit extreme, I think.  It isn't helpful to turn people into something less than fully human.  It might be more appropriate to say that there is an inability to sustain emotional intimacy.  We might have experienced behaviors that were cold and without empathy, but I think the presumption that what many on these boards have been injured by is a disordered personality of extreme, dysregulated emotion, not the absence of emotion.  The effect on many of us is intense pain from having periods of intimacy followed by periods of withdrawal without reason.  The experience is acute loss, but it is not from the absence of any emotional intimacy, it is the inability to sustain it.  Perhaps the "inability to sustain intimacy" does not constitute intimacy at all and that is what many of us feel, but again it is not from the absence of such emotions.

I imagine it is another disorder altogether than we have encountered where the person has no capacity for intimacy.  

Just read PeterParker as I was finishing this post... .nicely described!

Bold, italic part: soo true

Bold, underlined part: that's exactly what I meant
Logged
winston72
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 688



« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2013, 12:52:10 PM »

Indeed EdR!  I was just elaborating... .somehow the process of thoughts to fingers to keyboard to screen helps it all seem more real to me... .I am still in that phase of knowing it is all true, but having a hard time believing it really happened to me!  Aaarrggh!  When does the movie end so I can walk out of the theater and return to normal-world?
Logged

UmbrellaBoy
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Posts: 116


« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2013, 01:02:40 PM »

I think EDR hits the nail on the head.

They are "incapable" if intimacy, but that doesn't mean they don't "feel" it. They feel it, and it feels like engulfment and suffocation and the dread of being absorbed, and so they panic and freak out.

I think what this means for sex depends on the specific dynamics of the relationship and the significance they attribute to sex. Sex can have a variety of connotations or meanings. Lots of people on these boards report intense sexuality on the part of their pwBPD, but detached from emotion and sort of "meaningless" for the pwBPD, like they detach or compartmentalize. Mine, on the other hand, was not intense or passionate at all but rather seemed to associate sex with engulfment and so was reluctant and ambivalent about sexuality. So I think when it comes to sex I think it depends how they associate it with intimacy; if they can disconnect the two, then the sex may be intense but meaningless and compartmentalized for them. If sex is seen as a form of intimacy (always or in context) then their engulfment fears may be triggered.
Logged

nevaeh
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 244


« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2013, 01:08:38 PM »

Excerpt
When I think about being physically intimate with my ex, I do believe she did feel love towards me, but it wasn't really love for who I was as a person, but the purpose that I served to relieve the pain of living in her own head. Sex was a way to feel secure that I would continue to fill that role, so when things happened in my life when sex wasn't something I could give her, that's when she found someone else.

My H has deep need for sexual intimacy although is very bad at providing any level of emotional intimacy outside of the bedroom.  The only way he touches me is in a sexual way.  H gets very mad at me because I don't have a willingness to have sex with him on a frequent (sometimes even infrequent) basis.  I realize that a "normal" couple expresses intimacy through their sexual relationship.  We are not a normal couple.  To me, sex with my husband feels wrong, dirty and intrusive.  I think I understand that to my H, he is trying to show that he loves me by being sexually intimate with me.  I get that.  However, there is so much lacking outside of that it is really impossible for me to believe that he loves me for ME and not just for sex.  When I explain to him that I find it hard to have sex with someone I am not emotionally connected to, his response is that I should just focus on the sex part and the emotional part will follow.  That actually doesn't happen with me, but I'm guessing it does for him, since he said it?

So I would agree that it probably isn't fair to say that they are incapable of feeling emotional intimacy.  Their "idea" of emotional intimacy is probably different a non BPD... .as someone said, their idea of intimacy is maybe somewhat immature. 
Logged
DownandOut
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 260


« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2013, 01:20:30 PM »

I don't know what to think about this statement. My uBPDexgf would grab my hand and squeeze it tight and kiss it and rub her face with it in a sensual, loving way, but when I would try to hold her hand, or kiss her sometimes she would recoil and act as if I was repulsive. When I brought it to her attention that I just wanted to be romantic, she told me she's not romantic and that she doesn't really like to be touched. Funny comments because she always talked about how "our" wedding should be on a romantic beach and we should be in linen and barefoot so that our feet can feel the sand (very romantic in my opinion) - now she's not romantic. She also loved to cuddle and then we got to a point where she wouldn't even want our bodies to slightly touch in bed - again, it appeared that I had become repulsive to her. So I'm not sure if I agree with them not being capable of it, but more so that they cannot sustain it.

On a related side note, she made an odd comment to me that she would like to have sex with a very good looking guy but that she didn't want him to talk at all during it. FIrst of all, who says that to their bf? Second, why in the world would I accept that kind of comment from her when I'm one of the most assertive people in the world who would never accept a comment like that from any of my past gfs? I hate BPD!
Logged
winston72
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 688



« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2013, 02:45:22 PM »

DownandOut!  Man, your post brought back so many memories!  I am speechless…or typeless, I suppose.  The…what is the right adjective?  Volatility?  That emotional zig zag is volatile, although that word connotes more flair or edge.  But, the effect of these contradictory but otherwise normal comments is debilitating.  Being essentially romantic…and then not; essentially sensual…and then not.  It is crazy making, but in a gradual movement. 

I found myself more and more "passive"…not inactive, but continually stepping back a bit and observing, wanting to get my bearings, feeling that I was beginning to wobble and wanting to find a secure reference point.  It presented itself as a kind of passivity, certainly not assertiveness, but in retrospect I was "actively" retreating to a place to gain some perspective so I could be more "effective" in the relationship.  It was a walk into a hall of mirrors, without realizing it. 

It was, oddly, and with a twist of phrase, the journey of intimacy with her.  As I drew closer to her and she opened up more and more, I was exposed in an unguarded manner to her inner world.  As she allowed herself to me spontaneous, her internal conflicts, contradictions, extremes of emotion and thought, distortions and fears came into our relationship, and into my inner world.  And gradually swept me away from my moorings.  A riptide.  Swept out to sea without somehow realizing it fully until the coast was far away.

Long swim back.  And I find that I am still looking for reference points so I can find her and find myself.  Really though I just need to keep swimming back to shore on my own.  That metaphor isn't very tight, but so be it!
Logged

DownandOut
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 260


« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2013, 03:16:17 PM »

Winston, it's true, I also felt like I was observing the relationship from afar trying to figure out what was going on and, as a result, lost myself and my voice in the relationship. I almost felt like I was having an outer body experience. Everything I ever wanted was tied up in this person and I had absolutely no control over it which, in turn, made me lose control of myself. Since the day of my first b/u with my uBPDexgf two years ago, I have become a shell of who I once was. I am slowly getting back to that person, hopefully a new and improved version.
Logged
DownandOut
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 260


« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2013, 03:19:51 PM »

I'd like to add that I was truly in a FOG. My mind wasn't as sharp as it usually is, and my ex, who had once praised my intellect and wit, was now mocking my lack of focus. The sad part is that she was the cause of who I had become, a person that apparently did not meet her standards. It's amazing how I am sure I attracted her by being me, she made me someone else and then discarded me for who I'd become. Frightening when you think about it.
Logged
winston72
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 688



« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2013, 04:26:07 PM »

Yes, yes, yes, yes... .you describe it all so well. 

I had some episodes of major trauma, lying and infidelity. But these were not the most destructive features for me. The most corrosive were the dynamics that we have discussed on this thread... .the surrealistic, shifting of personality.  Very disorienting to my sense of self which in turn rendered me vulnerable to more confusion, self doubt and hurt.

And I am fully aware that the way forward is a stronger sense of self. 
Logged

Clearmind
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 5519



« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2013, 04:04:57 PM »



Certainly for me, dating a Borderline and chasing a fantasy relationship, beyond reasonable doubt meant that I had issues around emotional availability and fears of intimacy.

Logged

Jbt857
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 271


« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2013, 05:49:43 PM »

I do feel that emotional intimacy was lacking in my sex life. He was good at 'performing' but I always felt that 'connection' - that emotional intimacy was always absent. I thought it would happen with time, but it never did.

It became a real issue for us. I felt like I was just an object for him to perform with, and that made me withdraw and not want sex with him. For me, sex without intimacy has no meaning.

And - welcome back, House  Smiling (click to insert in post)
Logged
LaSuede
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Have been living together for almost 4 years. Living apart for half a year.
Posts: 52



WWW
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2013, 06:00:25 PM »

I see it as the black and white as within the rest of the relationship.

So yes, the statement is provocative to me too, since it's half the truth, on some occasions.

My ex got some help from a T in the matter and it changed his emotions having sex.

He started to really feel.

To be there.

To not get disgusted by himself, but reaching love, tenderness, contact.

Me too. Felt a huge difference at times.

Made the fall higher when back into the dance of his needs, how I should be and not be and how I destroyed him by not having sex when and the way he needed... .

Up and down.

The taste of beauty just to face hell again.

But I keep those moments if true tenderness in my heart.

Yes, there was true feelings, love and true caring.

Very sad it could not grow peacefully and more so, forever.

Logged
zsazsa

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 29



« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2013, 06:52:22 PM »

When Our Emotional Issues Affect Our True Availability.

Certainly for me, dating a Borderline and chasing a fantasy relationship, beyond reasonable doubt meant that I had issues around emotional availability and fears of intimacy.

This is a good read.  Thanks for putting it out there.
Logged
Perfidy
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Divorced/18 years Single/5 months that I know of.
Posts: 1594



« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2013, 07:30:24 PM »

Ha haha... Right! My BPDex could have the most mind blowing porno sex with me and be discussing how well I trimmed the grass or what her car needed. Lol... True no joke! When I called her on this she said... .Well... That's the only time that I have your complete attention... .Ha! I thought about her all the time. So... I already figured out sex was no more than a tool to her. No intimacy. A means to an end. A survival mechanism. A manipulative tool to get what she wanted. Could I tell her this? NO! Would she agree? I doubt it. Do I care anymore... Not much.
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2021?

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2021 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
Andi1956
Anondad
Cnvi
doghouse
drained1996
EyesUp
Harri
JD2028
lovenature
Mac5
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
old97
P.F.Change
Skip
snowglobe
Swimmy55
Teno
Turkish
wendydarling

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!