I feel this has opened an old old wound.

[Moonbeam77]

About 2 weeks ago I posted regarding my ?NPD Father and unBPD fiancée inviting my siblings and me and my family over for Christmas "for a fresh start".   I tried using the S.E.T. skill that I had just reviewed.  

":)ad I don't want you to be alone, I want someone to be in your life that makes you happy"

":)ad I won't be coming for Christmas, I don't believe I am capable on not offending you or your girlfriend"

":)ad in the past 2 years there has only been 1 visit where I did not receive an angry phone call afterwards"

I also told him I felt his fiancée's abandonment issues is what makes her possessive of him and that she perceives negative things from me because she feels threatened by me (because I am his daughter a woman in his life he may love also).  I said that is why I think I can not offend her.  My Dad said his girlfriend doesn't feel that I accept her.  I told him I don't have control over how she feels or how she perceives my intent.

My Father also stated he was going to mail my sister a letter to invite her for Christmas (My sister got a new phone number and intentionally never gave him the number and they haven't talked on the phone for almost a year).  Over the past 2 years he has brought up multiple times getting rid of negative people in his life and then mentions my sister's name.  In one conversation he talked about how some men "start their families over after they get divorced".   When he said that I felt that he was threatening to dump me and my siblings even though we are from his first divorce over 30 years previously.

My brother told me that my Father thinks my sister and I are mad at him and that is why we are not planning on coming for Christmas.  Is this an example of gas lighting?

I really want a Dad in my life but I feel the threats are so painful.  I used to be the golden child before this latest relationship (even though he seemed to think too highly of me he never was a great Dad).  My sister was the black kid.  She told me he has not acknowledged her birthday or sent anything for Christmas for several years.  I told her it must be harder on her because I seen more as the golden child and she was painted black.  She told me it was hard for both of us and that I wasn't the black kid because I was not as vulnerable to him as she was.

When I was a kid a longed to have a Dad.  He would call once every couple of months and we saw him for the occasional holiday.  As an adult in my 20s his second wife accepted me and my siblings as family and I actually felt I had a father for about 10 years.  Since his divorce to his last wife (3 years ago) everything has changed.  I feel this has opened an old old wound.  Any advice or feedback?  

[MovingOnInMyLife]

Do you want to spend time with your dad? Or are you trying to please him and avoid guilt and his outbursts?

Is there an option to spend some time with him away from the house and his girlfriend? Maybe just lunch between the two of you?

I know with my BPD mom, we get along best when it is just the two of us. Her crazy BPD behavior really comes out when it is large family gatherings, it seems. The more people and the bigger the occasion, the greater chance for big drama.

[Moonbeam77]

Do you want to spend time with your dad? Or are you trying to please him and avoid guilt and his outbursts?

Is there an option to spend some time with him away from the house and his girlfriend? Maybe just lunch between the two of you?

I know with my BPD mom, we get along best when it is just the two of us. Her crazy BPD behavior really comes out when it is large family gatherings, it seems. The more people and the bigger the occasion, the greater chance for big drama.

I have really mixed feelings.  I really want a ":)ad" and in a way I would love for us to spend time together and for him to develop a relationship with his grandchildren.  In the beginning of his relationship with his fiancée I believe he would ask her to not be present for part of my family's time at his home (we usually would spend the weekend about 4 times a year).  While she was not in his presence she would call his cell phone and home phone literally every 15 minutes until she was back in his presence.  When she was there she was constantly touching him and rubbing him sexually.  She also gets upset when the conversation does not directly apply to her.  When I would get home after my visit to his house he would then call me and tell me that his girlfriend thinks I don't like her and  I hate her.  In the beginning of their relationship it seems he didn't believe her allegations.  Then as time went on his post visit phone calls became more accusing and angrier.  After a while she stopped leaving at all when I came to visit and her kids and grandkids often would be there.  They did not live together but she would be there from 7:30am until everyone went to bed.  My Father indicated he felt pressure "to treat all the kids the same" and that it was exhausting.  Since her grandkids live only 15 minutes away and my kids live several hours away I asked if her kids and grandkids could please come another time.  This request did not go over very well.  I have asked my Father would it be possible to plan out my visit for my family to spend some time just with him and some time together all as a group.  He talked to his girlfriend and said she has abandonment issues and that it is hard for her not to be with him and she no longer will not be present when we come to visit.  His girlfriend said since I am so focused on him developing a relationship with his grand kids she was offering to drive several hours and pick up my kids and take care of them (without my husband and I present) for the weekend so my Father could spend some time with them.  I once asked directly when they were both present if it would be possible to have both 1 on 1 time with my Father and large group time all together.  She became very upset.  She could agree to my kids spending time with my father and my husband spending time with him but she could not agree to me spending time alone with him. 

This past year I have been invited to his home but only when it was supposed to be a family gathering e.g. 4th of July party and now we got invited for Christmas.  I have not gone to his home since last Christmas.  I have seen him about 5 times this year for family events not at his home.

I feel females in my father's life are triggering for his fiancée.  My sister and my sister-in-law have both been accused of cussing the fiancée out.  My aunt was accused of bruising the fiancée when my aunt didn't want to be hugged by her during my grandfather's funeral.  The fiancée says that I bully her. 

My father has told me before that she is possessive but he "I kind of likes it".  He seems to like the PDA even when it is so socially inappropriate such as my grandparents' funerals.  She has not had a steady job for years (she's 45) and he is a slum lord.  He likes it that she is available to mow the tenants lawns and work all day on his business.  He says she is wonderful.  He says his kids just don't accept that he is dating.  I think he has some NPD traits and I think she has BPD traits and her BPD is feeding his NPD. 

Does anyone else have experience with the BPD/NPD relationship? 

[MovingOnInMyLife]

Moonbeam77,

Wow. Reading your post, this part really struck me. Can you step back and read it again?

She could agree to my kids spending time with my father and my husband spending time with him but she could not agree to me spending time alone with him. 

This really struck me because the financee should not be calling the shots! It is your father! She decides what she can agree to? Your father is really deep into the FOG with this woman if she is the one who decides who gets to spend time with whom. I guess there is nothing you can do about that since your father is allowing it. Very sad situation. Personally, I would stay clear of them. It doesn't seem from your post that you are really, really wanting to spend time with your dad anyway. I would probably go VLC if I were in your shoes! That situation would drive me nuts.

I also found this part of your post interesting:

I feel females in my father's life are triggering for his fiancée.  My sister and my sister-in-law have both been accused of cussing the fiancée out.  My aunt was accused of bruising the fiancée when my aunt didn't want to be hugged by her during my grandfather's funeral.  The fiancée says that I bully her. 

Yep. She sure does sound BPD. It really is ALL ABOUT HER, isn't it? Here you are, looking to problem solve your relationship with your dad, and it seems it is more about the fiancee. Crazy. But BPD people have a way of making it all about them!

I'm sorry for your situation.

[Moonbeam77]

MovingOnInMyLife thank you so much for your post.  I long to have a ":)ad" in my life.  I have felt stuck because as an adult I can't allow someone to abuse me by yelling, blaming, accusing, and distorting reality and just go with the flow.  I feel that was the way it was when I was a kid.  I coped as a kid by never complaining, anticipating my Father's every need, taking care of my siblings, never having any needs of my own, ignoring his temper fits, ignoring the numerous time he didn't show up to my important events, and forgiving him when he beat my mother (he has also gotten into physical altercations with my ex-stepbrother and my biological brother).  Being the "perfect child" doesn't work anymore because the accusations are fabricated.  This relationship is so painful and has so little reward I have been thinking about going VLC only seeing him when there is a family event that we are both invited to that is not at his home.  Your suggestion going VLC was very validating, thank you for that.