The family court system just chewed me up and spit me out...

[kepp81]

I'm having a pity party these last two days. Trial was Tuesday, judgment was in by Friday. She was awarded primary physical care, I get every other weekend and a couple extra weeks for Christmas and over the summer. I owe her my soul in child support plus half her attorney's fees, plus extra money for health care even though they're on state aid, and I get to do all the transportation for child exchanges. Somehow the judge found her more credible. I don't get it. On cross examination she says she doesn't think I'm even emotionally bonded to our oldest child. She alleges I shoved her twice last year (no proof of it because it didn't happen).

I think my attorney missed a golden opportunity when he held back the nasty emails she sent me ("I'm sick of you demanding time with the kids... ." for example). And all the emails in which she chose not to even answer me. In fact, since Friday she hasn't responded to a single email I've sent asking about kids. I was taking DD10 to band practice and volleyball on Tuesdays (one of my informal days leading up to trial), and now she won't even answer as to what's going to happen. The judge instead accused me of not being forthcoming about the kids. What emails was he reading?

He also says I wasn't the primary caregiver in spite of the fact I was home with the kids all day, 7 days a week, even during the separation. He says she was the primary caretaker in addition to holding a full time job. In fact, he goes as far as to call me "lazy and self-centered" because I "refused to get a full time job" and this is the lifestyle I chose to live. What the ever loving hell does that mean? Who was home taking care of kids, then? Casper the Friendly Ghost?

I haven't slept in 36 hours, I can't believe this.

[kepp81]

Oh, and she says DD10 cries when gets home after visiting me (when I asked her she looked confused and said no. In fact she's with me now, building a fort with my girlfriend's kids), and she says DS2 clings to her the whole time. This was considered credible testimony?

[ForeverDad]

Well, have you considered an appeal?  If so, be aware you have a limited time frame to file, usually two to four weeks. You might need to use a different lawyer to file an appeal, not sure.  While courts are allowed 'discretion' in decisions, if she worked full time outside the home and you stayed home (working too?) it's hard to imagine a realistic basis why Mother was deemed to be the historical "primary caregiver".  However, mothers often get unwritten or default preference in family court.  You just might have basis to contest it.  Not sure what to think about the 'bonding' aspect.  Was that testified to by a custody evaluator or similar professional?

Be aware that an appeal can only mention information presented to the court.  For example, you can't add those emails that were held back.

Oh, is this a temporary order or a final decree?  If temporary, don't be lulled by ":)on't worry, we'll fix it later."  It may be an uphill struggle to undo what just happened because the judge just set a new 'normal' and courts may be reluctant to change it too much or very often over time.  In my case, I've often complained to my lawyer that my court always takes itty bitty baby steps to correct the first orders.

Take care of yourself.  If you're not in reasonable shape, it'll be that much harder for you to parent well.  Remember the airplane instructions, "When the oxygen masks drop, put your own mask on first before helping others."  It's not selfish, it's practical.

[marbleloser]

Who filed for divorce? I would appeal barring any "real" reason she was awarded primary custody. You not working should have NO bearing. What about stay at home moms? They get custody often BECAUSE they don't work.

Did you have any documentation showing how involved you are with the kids? Was it presented? Any reason mom shouldn't have primary custody? What are the reasons you should have primary? Did you move out prior to the divorce being final?

[ForeverDad]

Oh, and she says DD10 cries when gets home after visiting me... .

Expect blaming and the twisted lies that go with it.  Whether it is posturing, trying to make you feel hurt or both, who knows?  I don't know what happened out of my presence, but when we first separated and during the divorce when our son was 3 to 5 years old I know what happened during the exchanges.

Back in our early years, when I picked up our then-preschooler, he would come running to me.  When I brought him back he would often be crying and refuse to go to her or stay with her as I left.  Her slanted question?  "What did you do to him?"

[DreamGirl]

Do you work now?

[slimmiller]

Sounds like a raw deal... .:'( Sorry to hear the outcome was the way it was

The others here have given you some good advice I think. One thing that kind of sticks out from another angle reading the posts is your reference to DD10. I sounds to me like she is already a 'pawn' to your ex. The fact she looked confused is suspiscious. 

I found the book "The Power of Validation" invaluable with this respect. She (dd10) already sees things somewhat for what they are and this is an opportunity for you to show her the contrast in you and her mother. Im not suggesting creating strife but rather communicate on a level that will prove things in the long run. Not her mothers short term mud slinging fest.

I m convinced in the end with the BPDs and their disfunction and difficulties they can cause, it all comes out in the wash. What I mean is if we are true to our values and dont allow them do 'disregulate' us so to speak the kids will see things for what they are. In the short term they challenge the Hell out of us at times though.

The kids are whats really important, not who wins. Money and all their fuss is fleeting, the love of the kids is forever.

[momtara]

That's awful.  If you were home with the kids, you were the primary caretaker.  I'm sorry to hear this. 

("I'm sick of you demanding time with the kids... ." for example)

That doesn't sound too bad in terms of the kinds of emails some people get.  I don't know if that would have been convincing.

Hang in there.

[DontPanic]

I am really sorry to hear that you are going through this. My experience is this.

1) document everything

2) Don't fight with the ex (I know this one is hard, but in the end I got custody because I quit fighting with her and was able to document all the crazy stuff she did (and a great deal of it was crazy , substance abuse, hitting the kids in public etc)

3 Read, Read Read!, so that you understand how someone with a PD works. in the end for me, my ex while crazy as hell was HIGHLY predictable

Suggested readings:

1) Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder

2) Child Custody A to Z: Winning with Evidence by Guy White

Good Luck

[david]

My ex ran away in 2007 and that is when the chaos began. I had our two boys eow and two weeks in the summer. Today The summer is week on / week off. The boys are with me eow, every monday, and after school on thursday. Document everything you can and learn what is imoirtant to the courts. I have over 3,000 emails from ex. I used to get around 40 to 60 a month. That went down to 20 to 30 a month in the last year. I communucate through email only. I only reply to emails that pertain to our boys and only if I need to reply. Learning what to reply to and how takes patience and practice.

Our boys were 4.5 and 8.5 when she ran away. I was very concerned about their wellbeing and future. Today, thanks to ex's behaviors, the boys and I have a much better relationship than I could have imagined back then. I stay focused on their needs and what is important for them to grow and develop. Ex does not / can not. That worked out to be a huge advantage for me. It took a while but the kids figured it out. It's more work than I imagined but it is worth it for the kids. My ex is highly predictable too. She only has a few ways of dealing with things. Once they became apparent to me I was much better at helping the boys and also distancing myself from the craziness.

[slimmiller]

3. Read, Read Read!, so that you understand how someone with a PD works. in the end for me, my ex while crazy as hell was HIGHLY predictable

Very true. Read and learn and watch. The more knowledge you glean, the more you will realize how predictable they really are in the bigger scheme of things. They count on getting you all scatter brained in the moment (its their greatest control asset and control mechanisms) but in the end their path is really predictable with their past behaviour.

Stay the course and be the rock for the kids. The kids will see it. My S11 made the comment recently that "we dont need to make mom look bad, she does that herself"

[livednlearned]

I think my attorney missed a golden opportunity when he held back the nasty emails she sent me ("I'm sick of you demanding time with the kids... ." for example).

What is this about? How does your attorney justify not including these emails?

He also says I wasn't the primary caregiver in spite of the fact I was home with the kids all day, 7 days a week, even during the separation. He says she was the primary caretaker in addition to holding a full time job. In fact, he goes as far as to call me "lazy and self-centered" because I "refused to get a full time job" and this is the lifestyle I chose to live. What the ever loving hell does that mean? Who was home taking care of kids, then? Casper the Friendly Ghost?

If you appeal this, will you get the same judge? What evidence did she present to give him the idea that she was primary caretaker?

[marbleloser]

If he appeals,no new evidence can be brought to trial.He'll have to only present the evidence already seen,so he won't be able to include all those nasty emails. His atty dropped the ball on that one. That's why you need to present EVERYTHING you can and have at your disposal at trial.

[momtara]

Are you sure he can't bring new evidence?

Anyway, maybe there is a group in your state that's like this one?  www.facenj.org/

[marbleloser]

I'm positive.It's because he'll be appealing the decision based on the evidence presented. He can't appeal what hasn't been looked at.

[marbleloser]

kepp81, Consider this round 1. You lost,but if you've been primary parent then there is no way she'll be able to take care of kiddo. You need to keep documenting and try to have the kiddo as much as possible. When she tires,be there to take up her slack. Document,document,document! If she slips up,have it documented. Keep recording!

After a year,if you've had the child more than half the time,you can file a motion to evaluate custody again. You can't bring in old evidence,but you can any new evidence. It isn't over,so don't give up!

Did you get a right of first refusal included in the papers?

[livednlearned]

I'm positive.It's because he'll be appealing the decision based on the evidence presented. He can't appeal what hasn't been looked at.

Same in my case, except it was N/BPDx trying to introduce new evidence. He kept trying to introduce it through sneaky means like testimony, and even in his own questions for me. My L just kept saying "objection" and the judge kept sustaining. Each hearing, a door closes, and it's hard to go back through those doors in subsequent hearings.

That's why lots of people here wait to file new motions based on "substantial change in circumstance" to justify modifying parenting or custody time.

[kepp81]

After calling nearly every other attorney in town, I was informed I had been "out-lawyered" by their side (whatever that means). The trial judge practically ignored everything I said, ignored the evidence I submitted, ignored her cross-exam answers, and just based everything on what she said on her direct exam. Hell, she confirmed 99% of the things I had said, and so did their witnesses. Plus, she couldn't come up with a coherent reason for why she thought I wasn't bonded with DD10. I winced several times during the cross-exam because it was about to go very bad for her (fumbling over words, contradicting herself, back peddling so fast I was afraid she'd trip) before my attorney cut it short. It was such a lopsided victory for their side that I hope this sets off alarm bells as it works its way through the system. A quick look through the trial transcripts and evidence should be more than enough to convince even the dullest judge that the decision was wrong.

The Motion to Reconsider/Retrial has been filed. It's now a waiting game. To complicate things, the judge who presided at trial has retired, so this should be interesting to see how the court handles it. In any case I'm expecting this to be denied. I'm then planning on appealing (with a new, much more aggressive attorney). I'm told I have "solid footing" for an appeal, but the odds for success are very, very low. The new attorney raised his eyebrows when I showed him the Police Incidence Report and told him it was in the testimony. It's not even mentioned in the decree. Neither is the second incidence with the police when she called them to my girlfriend's house. I honestly am dumbfounded how this guy came to this conclusion.

In the meantime she's changing schools without telling me, taking DD10 to the activities I historically have done, and is denying telephone contact. Yes, the majority of it is documented. If the appeal fails, there's always a Motion to Modify. This fight is far from over. I'll keep this thread updated when I find out more.

[ForeverDad]

While family court judges are allowed latitude ("judicial discretion" in their decisions, there are limits.  However, an appeal typically must be filed within a strictly limited time period and can reference only what has been put on the record (testimony, exhibits, etc).  I presume that filing window doesn't start until the Reconsideration portion is over.

She gave you a triple whammy creating your uphill struggle.  First is her gender, on paper the courts are gender neutral but so much of the unwritten/unstated default preference as well as the policies, procedures and past precedence and case law subtly and not so subtly favors mothers.  Second, for some reason many judges seem to dance around the more troubled parents, perhaps since they don't want to trigger an overreaction, perhaps a feeling like "it's your mess, you're the one who had children with this person", perhaps a feeling that if the person is coddled then the issues will subside or even go away.  Third is the past history, if she's had majority time for years, it's hard to get that changed, as my custody evaluator told me, history is just about half the weighting of a decision - yet months later the CE wrote that mother's temp custody should be terminated immediately.  Court ignored it, but it assured me I had a good CE.

All three happened with me.

• Our separation was marked by my ex's arrest for threatening my life - found not guilty almost 5 months later because the judge decided they weren't "imminent" threats per case law.  So when family court pondered temp custody during our mutual temporary protection orders (TPO) the judge decided based on work schedules.  I worked a regular schedule, was not of the unstated female gender and so despite my protection order she got temp custody for the next two years.  Our preschooler was not covered by any protection order.



• My ex always got minimal consequences and progress felt like a series of baby steps.  When I managed to secure custody over five years after we separated - our child's lawyer (GAL - Guardian ad Litem) refused to consider also advocating majority time for me, the GAL felt mother getting child support would make her more stable.  It has been remarked here... .The parent behaving poorly seldom gets consequences and the parent behaving well seldom gets credit.



• Late 2005 to early 2008 - separation & divorce process - mother had temp custody and majority time.
  
  Early 2008 to early 2011 - Settlement - Shared Parenting and equal time.
  
  Early 2011 to now - Settlement brokered by GAL - I have temporary custody but equal time not changed.
  
  Over a month ago we spent two entire days in family court for my supposedly simple Motion to Modify Parenting Time.  Still waiting for a decision.  (By comparison the divorce trial was scheduled for just one day and the last minute settlement only took about 3-4 hours.)

[ogopogodude]

It is a topic like this that I have to say to all victims of BPD relatives... .document, document and oh, yeah, ... document. Create a diary. Sounds corny, ... .but just do. And hide it well. I actually video taped covertly and openly all really weird behaviour. Then backed it up onto USB memory sticks and gave them to close relatives as insurance. Trust me, ... it is theeeee best thing to have.  Call it black mail, call it extortion, call it whatever you want, ... but if one ever needs convincing who the "bad" person really is, ... .nothing like an audio tape or video tape.

[kepp81]

It is a topic like this that I have to say to all victims of BPD relatives... .document, document and oh, yeah, ... document. Create a diary. Sounds corny, ... .but just do. And hide it well. I actually video taped covertly and openly all really weird behaviour. Then backed it up onto USB memory sticks and gave them to close relatives as insurance. Trust me, ... it is theeeee best thing to have.  Call it black mail, call it extortion, call it whatever you want, ... but if one ever needs convincing who the "bad" person really is, ... .nothing like an audio tape or video tape.

We haven't spoken in person since 11/11... .the night before the trial. I asked her why she wouldn't go for joint physical care and she said "because that's how it has to be". Before that, it had been almost two months since I'd heard her voice. Since August 99% of our communication is through email, save a couple text messages a month ago when I needed to relay information to her quickly. At this point, there are hundreds of emails between us. They're all saved to my hard drive, backed up on the cloud, and saved in folders in my email account. I stopped printing them since paper and ink is so expensive, .

[kepp81]

Who filed for divorce? I would appeal barring any "real" reason she was awarded primary custody. You not working should have NO bearing. What about stay at home moms? They get custody often BECAUSE they don't work.

Did you have any documentation showing how involved you are with the kids? Was it presented? Any reason mom shouldn't have primary custody? What are the reasons you should have primary? Did you move out prior to the divorce being final?

I filed for divorce in November '12. I submitted DD10's school planner I signed on days I had her (initialled by her teacher), a parent/teacher conference reminder (which I attended in person), a late slip (from a day her mom had her in the morning), pictures from my cell phone of both kids, and lots of receipts from clothes and grocery shopping. I knew the names of the games they play with each other, DS2's favorite food, what homework DD10 was responsible for every night, and that she was suppose to be getting math flash cards sent home from her teacher. There are over 200 emails between us that clearly show I was home with DD10 (DS2 was at a babysitter). We both moved out of the marital home at the same time and into our respective places. The kids did go with her, however I went to her house 7 days a weeks (again, 200 emails) to watch the kids while she worked and went to school. I spent 12+ hours a day there. I got DD10 off to school, and was there for her after school. I took her to orthodontist appointments, and I took DS2 to the doctor when he had the flu, and I stayed home with him that week (god he was sick... .it was torture to see how miserable he was). I guess as far as what roof did they sleep under, technically it was hers. Does that mean I was just an unpaid babysitter? There's also testimony that we had a shared care arrangement in place for 2 months leading up to trial. I'm telling you, this decision made my jaw hit the floor.

[broken3]

Just my two cents. It seems like everyone is under that if they have a great lawyer. They will be better off.

Truth is. They can only summarize your case. It is up to you to keep track of and document everything.

You are responsible to make your case and give it to your attorney. They do not live your life. It is only you who can prove the truth.

Make a list of every doctor appointment and who attended.And who scheduled.

make a list of every activity and who attended.

Make a list oif every school meeting or function.

Make a list of every visitation and who exceeded the expectations.

Then give a summary of the list to your attorney showing " father has done 90% of school meetings"

" father has done 90% of doctor schedules". "father has done 90% of activities". " father has exceeded the courts visitation by 130%".ETC. ETC. You get my point.

That shows the judge in a nutshell who the real parent is. Not just hearsay. Talk is cheap... .Take action.

If they challenge it. Which they will do. You then break out your itemized list with the dates and times etc.

Thats when the fireworks will begin.

[kepp81]

Just my two cents. It seems like everyone is under that if they have a great lawyer. They will be better off.

Truth is. They can only summarize your case. It is up to you to keep track of and document everything.

You are responsible to make your case and give it to your attorney. They do not live your life. It is only you who can prove the truth.

Make a list of every doctor appointment and who attended.And who scheduled.

make a list of every activity and who attended.

Make a list oif every school meeting or function.

Make a list of every visitation and who exceeded the expectations.

Then give a summary of the list to your attorney showing " father has done 90% of school meetings"

" father has done 90% of doctor schedules". "father has done 90% of activities". " father has exceeded the courts visitation by 130%".ETC. ETC. You get my point.

That shows the judge in a nutshell who the real parent is. Not just hearsay. Talk is cheap... .Take action.

If they challenge it. Which they will do. You then break out your itemized list with the dates and times etc.

Thats when the fireworks will begin.

I couldn't agree more. However, a better lawyer will be much better at presenting the case you provide them, and will be much better at rebuffing the opposing parties argument. My previous attorney left out loads of evidence I brought to him including pictures, text messages, school attendance report (which would have directly supported my testimony), 6 weeks worth of emails, doctors appointment printouts. My advice: be very careful of who you choose as a lawyer. If your lawyer is throwing red flags all over the place (as mine did) RUN and RUN FAST.

[momtara]

I had a very experienced, well recommended lawyer, but she made lots of mistakes and simply forgot things that were of major importance to me.  And I switched to her from a less experienced lawyer.  Also interviewed about 10 others.  This one said all the right things.  She was good in court, but outside of court, sent letters I didn't approve of, gave away our strategy and sometimes contradicted herself.  I have come to realize that lawyers, like other professionals, are just as human as we are and you have to ask questions and advocate for yourself no matter how good your lawyer is.  It's the same with doctors and everyone else.  You can get the world's best lawyer and she doesn't return your phone calls because you're not high priority (that happened to a friend of mine).  So try not to beat yourself up if you think your lawyer was bad.  The best we can do is hope to get one that will work with us well and not be a complete goofup.  If you can get one who is familiar with BPD, that's good, but not all are.