but what is the solution?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

In general, I'm still feeling baffled by BPD... .because it is not actually an "individual" problem, as I see it... .it is a "social" problem in that it actually depends on other people in order to exist/manifest itself (ie: triggering/enabling).  I don't think this is the case with other mental illnesses... .bipolar, schizophrenia, OCD, etc.  The fact that enmeshment occurs and that others get pulled in, and start exhibiting signs of it, to me shows that it is bigger than an individual, and that it is a "communal" problem as it is about people relating with/to eachother. Perhaps it was dysfunctional social interactions which caused BPD in the first place, and therefore it continues to shape social interactions as the person with BPD continues the same dysfunctional dance they've been taught.  What I struggle with, is the fact that yes there is therapy where major improvements can be made and certain symptoms managed, but still the person, who desperately wants to be close to people, will forever have trouble with intimacy, from what I gather and have read on these boards.  I think everyone on these boards is doing the right thing, addressing their own dysfunction, and breaking their role in the cycle... .what I don't understand is how pwBPD can simply continue the same dysfunction, over and over and over... .  And continue to find others to continue the cycle with them... .almost like groundhog day... .but it seems like they'll never really get it right.  I mean at some point, these people MUST get tired of crashing and burning all the time.   Anyway, I feel like this "thing", BPD, is bigger than a single person... .because it requires others to partake., whereas I don't think there are Bipolar or schizophrenia enablers, and a lot of people with those illnesses end up on the streets... .  Is there not something sick about our society that tells us that a lot of BPD symptoms are in fact what we should strive towards? Superficiality, mirroring, idealization, drama, passion, crossing boundaries, instant connection, promiscuity, drug use, power struggles, etc... .  Anyway, just random thoughts that I'm struggling with as I try to wrap my head around this BPD beast.

[caughtnreleased]

In general, I'm still feeling baffled by BPD... .because it is not actually an "individual" problem, as I see it... .it is a "social" problem in that it actually depends on other people in order to exist/manifest itself (ie: triggering/enabling).  I don't think this is the case with other mental illnesses... .bipolar, schizophrenia, OCD, etc.  The fact that enmeshment occurs and that others get pulled in, and start exhibiting signs of it, to me shows that it is bigger than an individual, and that it is a "communal" problem as it is about people relating with/to eachother. Perhaps it was dysfunctional social interactions which caused BPD in the first place, and therefore it continues to shape social interactions as the person with BPD continues the same dysfunctional dance they've been taught.  What I struggle with, is the fact that yes there is therapy where major improvements can be made and certain symptoms managed, but still the person, who desperately wants to be close to people, will forever have trouble with intimacy, from what I gather and have read on these boards.  I think everyone on these boards is doing the right thing, addressing their own dysfunction, and breaking their role in the cycle... .what I don't understand is how pwBPD can simply continue the same dysfunction, over and over and over... .  And continue to find others to continue the cycle with them... .almost like groundhog day... .but it seems like they'll never really get it right.  I mean at some point, these people MUST get tired of crashing and burning all the time.   Anyway, I feel like this "thing", BPD, is bigger than a single person... .because it requires others to partake., whereas I don't think there are Bipolar or schizophrenia enablers, and a lot of people with those illnesses end up on the streets... .  Is there not something sick about our society that tells us that a lot of BPD symptoms are in fact what we should strive towards? Superficiality, mirroring, idealization, drama, passion, crossing boundaries, instant connection, promiscuity, drug use, power struggles, etc... .  Anyway, just random thoughts that I'm struggling with as I try to wrap my head around this BPD beast.

[Surnia]

I think the "solution" is in very short: Good boundaries. Very good boundaries. Good communications skills. Healthy self esteem.

Many of us don't learn these skills good enough - so we get easily in troubles.

Another thought about your comparison with eg. Bipolar: I grow up with Bipolar family members. You can be the caretaker as well, I was it.

[Changingman]

My thoughts are that people with BPD have primeval animal survival traits, not very evolved, doctors talk of them being in an emotional state of a 4 year old... .high functioning a 6 year old. This is an emotional state. The attraction is primeval, instinctive, about survival needs and impulses (BPD)... but with a sense of the entitled, spoiled child (NPD).

From reading these boards and other resources it doesn't feel too premeditated, more a lurching forward with whatever chance throws at them. A bald 40 year old co-worker, a same sex affair occasionally, a different sex affair occasionally, a married man, an emotional infidelity here, a triangulation there, a rich man, a poor man, a beggar, a thief. Throwing in with a new group dynamic, running, fencing, animal welfare, gas chamber operator. No authentic self, no moral compass, just pure living, moment to moment, intense sexual activity lost in the act with a complete stranger, eating until sick, loss of feeling for absent significant others (object orientated), flirting, crying, vivacious, elated, tired, depressed, hurt. The ones with good looks can survive by fulfilling any fantasy they can find in their victim (female BPD) the males tending to end up in prison.

We live with 2 tides a day, they live with many more, the on the brink feeling of these relationships is real.

They have realised how 'Non's' react to their crazy making activity and keep it as concealed as possible, leaving suddenly, spreading chaos wherever they go. leading to Lies and deception. Emotions in others seem to be alien and strange to them.

They feel victimised and use it to inflict any abuse they can. They cannot with these perimeters form any real longterm Relationships and feel alone, so they give what they can to form alliances, your sexual desires made flesh. They become a doll to perform with, and then hate you for being as shallow as them.

Why change when the supply of willing participants is endless for a while. With a 'i'll be dead soon', self abusive attitude to themselves. Therapy over years... .are you kidding? a day is a long time for them

[Octoberfest]

In general, I'm still feeling baffled by BPD... .because it is not actually an "individual" problem, as I see it... .it is a "social" problem in that it actually depends on other people in order to exist/manifest itself (ie: triggering/enabling).  I don't think this is the case with other mental illnesses... .bipolar, schizophrenia, OCD, etc.  The fact that enmeshment occurs and that others get pulled in, and start exhibiting signs of it, to me shows that it is bigger than an individual, and that it is a "communal" problem as it is about people relating with/to eachother. Perhaps it was dysfunctional social interactions which caused BPD in the first place, and therefore it continues to shape social interactions as the person with BPD continues the same dysfunctional dance they've been taught.  What I struggle with, is the fact that yes there is therapy where major improvements can be made and certain symptoms managed, but still the person, who desperately wants to be close to people, will forever have trouble with intimacy, from what I gather and have read on these boards.  I think everyone on these boards is doing the right thing, addressing their own dysfunction, and breaking their role in the cycle... .what I don't understand is how pwBPD can simply continue the same dysfunction, over and over and over... .  And continue to find others to continue the cycle with them... .almost like groundhog day... .but it seems like they'll never really get it right. I mean at some point, these people MUST get tired of crashing and burning all the time.   Anyway, I feel like this "thing", BPD, is bigger than a single person... .because it requires others to partake.,

Unhooking,

I will begin by telling you that I too, at one point, had similar thoughts.  I would be so frustrated because, "When it is just her and I, alone, behind a closed door, everything is perfect.  I couldn't be happier anywhere else.  It's when the outside world sticks its nose in, THAT'S when the problems start." In hindsight, I can see that I was yet again making excuses for her behavior.  All of the lies, and the cheating, and the hurt was someone/something ELSES' fault, not hers.

I would argue against it not being an "individual" problem.  The chronic feelings of emptiness, the lack of identity/sense of self, the often imagined fears of abandonment... .All those things can very well exist without other people doing anything. I think it is important to remember, because it can be easily forgotten, that pwBPD are the ones who are suffering the worst from this disorder.  It may not seem so at first glance, one might argue, "BS, they always seem to have someone interested in them or who will take care of them, they can manipulate people to do whatever, etc".  But think about what living that way really means.  It is a life devoid of true, genuine, honest loving connection.  People come and go from their lives all the time.  They are incapable of maintaining relationships, be it romantic, or friendships, or with family members.  It may not seem like it, but they are more alone than anyone.  All as a result of their own actions/behavior. We as Non's certainly suffer and feel pain because of BPD.  But our experience is second hand- a result of someone else with the disorder.  Our experience with BPD can be finite; theirs, infinite. I have delved into all this to make the point that, just because there are not people around interacting with the pwBPD, it does not mean that all is well and that they are emotionally healthy people.  They are suffering all of the time.  If you have found yourself on this board, I would wager you are familiar with that sense of dread/despair/depression that has a way of lingering, like a buzz when you are drunk, no matter what is going on around you.  I have it even now, 6 months out of my relationship.  It is emotional pain caused by past events, none of which have happened any time recently at all.  You had better believe pwBPD live with that each and every day too, even when there are no people around to trigger them.

To the next bolded statement, given what I have posted above, this is the really, truly sad part of the disorder. I can't honestly say that I know what is going on in a pwBPD's head concerning who's "fault" it is that things are the way they are in their lives.  I don't know if they are perfectly conscious and aware of how their actions directly lead to their results but choose to blame others, I don't know if they are in denial, I don't know if they are so far down the rabbit hole that they truly cannot understand how their actions/behaviors cause them and others so much grief and so many problems and and guess they must be because of other people.  Regardless, the outcome is the same; they keep repeating the same patterns over and over because they see OTHER people as having the problem.  It is simply far too painful to look within and examine their own issues, so they place the fault on others.  You aren't crazy to ask, ' why don't they realize things still aren't working after the umpteenth time".  But I think a pwBPD will go a lot longer before admitting they themselves are the problem than a more mentally healthier person.  Looking inwards and tackling ones problems involves confronting demons from their past; be sexual abuse, absent parents, physical abuse, traumatic experiences, etc, and oftentimes there is so much accumulated pain that it simply hurts less to use the maladaptive coping mechanisms that pwBPD develop like using other people, turning to certain behaviors in extremes such as drug use, promiscuity, self harm, and other destructive mechanisms.

It is terribly, terribly sad.  With a healthy person, you are right, you would think that they would see things are getting worse and worse and draw a correlation to their own actions, and then bring about change.  pwBPD see things are getting worse and worse and drive on through more of the same, determined to find the person/people who can make everything ok, when in fact the only such person that exists is themselves.