Daughter was Arrested

[Parents! Get help here!]

Panicking here! My DD's friend got charged with possession of 4 grams of marijuana and had her court date today. She got one year probation and her mother a $1,000 fine. My DD charges are WAY worse. One being an indictable. I'm freaking out over the inevitable fines we are going to have to pay! We live paycheck to paycheck as it is.

:'(

And she has the nerve to say to me that she hopes she doesn't have court until after New Year's Eve so she "can be herself" until she has to be on probation.

DH seems to think that we have a better chance than her friend's mother because we have a file about an inch thick showing diagnoses, our attempts at treatment, etc. But I'm so scared that it is not going to matter.

[raytamtay3]

Panicking here! My DD's friend got charged with possession of 4 grams of marijuana and had her court date today. She got one year probation and her mother a $1,000 fine. My DD charges are WAY worse. One being an indictable. I'm freaking out over the inevitable fines we are going to have to pay! We live paycheck to paycheck as it is.

:'(

And she has the nerve to say to me that she hopes she doesn't have court until after New Year's Eve so she "can be herself" until she has to be on probation.

DH seems to think that we have a better chance than her friend's mother because we have a file about an inch thick showing diagnoses, our attempts at treatment, etc. But I'm so scared that it is not going to matter.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Being Mindful]

Ray!

Do you think you could tell dd she could use fb when she is less erratic with her behaviour and less likely to get into trouble?

I just had to let you know as well that your dd's journal sounds just like the things my dd used to say to me!  It was ALL my fault she wanted to die!  I too used to cry and feel so hurt because all I had done was care for her, just like you!

She hated me for everything and anything and made things up to hate me for too!

Im only saying to hope to make you feel better because she loves me now (mostly!) and none of the things she said made much sense to me at the time or in retrospect, its just part of the fear and pain of the condition, they project feelings onto you, they fear abandonment so much they hate you before you have chance to hate/abandon them first, it is so complex but it has NOTHING to do with the reality of what you do mean to her which is EVERYTHING!

The agony they cause us is their pain projected onto us but no matter how it hurts us it is still a fraction of the pain they carry.  Please don't forget this and NEVER absorb their words as they are not real!  :)o not let the character assassinations define your self-esteem, you know who you are, also don't let the same character assassinations define them either as they are not real, they are just their pain played out.

If we don't/cant stand firm and tolerate these intolerable attacks who else will but we must never absorb the actual words they say about us, try to see the helpless girl in mental pain behind the words just lashing out to bring herself relief, its just another form of self-harm really, driving loved ones away!

xx

Thank you so much for this.    Yeah, get to use the santa smiley.

PS: I need to print this out and hang it somewhere to keep referring to.

Keep in mind too that she trusts you and feels safe enough to direct all her pain to you. When I received this same treatment from my BPD.d, I reframed it for me that she was still connected to me and trusted me enough to hold her pain for her. However, there is still a point where verbal abuse was not tolerated and I had to have strong boundaries to protect myself from her. Each and every time she verbally abused me my response was the same of exiting the conversation. Eventually she learned that she could not abuse me. Validation of her feelings as horrible as they seemed to me were also acknowledged... ."it must be so difficult to feel that you can't trust me", "You must be very sad to feel that I don't love you".

Regarding Facebook... .computer privileges were for when our d. was attending school, getting decent grades, showing responsible behaviors, being healthy within the family etc.

[Matt]

Wow - lots of good thoughts from everybody.  I won't repeat stuff but it's all really good ideas I think.

I'll talk about a different subject... .

I think the way this is going to get better is when you can get your daughter into residential treatment.  That won't work til she is ready, and from what you have said, I don't think she's ready.  But she's very young, and things can change very fast, especially when she goes to court, which it sounds like might be soon.

Here's how it worked for me:

My son had been to jail a number of times - 3 DUIs and 3 times for violating probation by drinking.  He was in jail and looking at a couple years in state prison.  I talked with his probation officer who recommended a residential treatment center, and said if my son and I both committed to that for 6 months the PO would propose that to the judge instead of jail.  I had to come up with the money - a lot - and my son had to sign a letter committing to complete the program or go to prison.

Also... .I had to take him from jail direct to rehab - no stops - not at home, or even for lunch - straight to rehab or the deal would be off.  The reason is, rehab works better when the person goes direct from jail - I learned that later from the rehab staff.

It worked.  He was committed and did well.  He relapsed a number of times, and came back to rehab for another six months - it wasn't easy - two steps forward and one step back - harder because he had been using for more than twelve years.

I think you should research residential treatment centers - talk to your daughters PO - talk to anybody else who has experience with treatment - find where she could go, and for how long, and if funding might be available somehow.  There may be funding available from the youth probation department, for example, or from some other government or private agency.

Figure out an option you think is best, and talk with her PO, and see if the PO might agree to that rather than jail.  Give your daughter only two options - a good one (rehab) or a really bad one (jail).  Don't focus on making the bad option better - a shorter sentence - that's not what you want.  Focus on making sure she has no other options - no friends she can stay with - no option to come home after court - no other options whatsoever, other than rehab or jail.

She'll choose rehab.  She might not be 100% committed - maybe not very committed at all - so it may not be effective.  But the rehab staff will probably be good at getting through to her, and just being in that environment 24/7 may help.

Or if not, at least you'll know you did your best.

[raytamtay3]

I already screwed up and didn’t stick to a couple of boundaries. I guess I do have to face the fact that while I may not be the cause of the problem, I’m not helping….

I truly believe at this point that my DD is beyond a manipulator.  That she knows exactly how to play me. And as my DH told me, run circles around me.  And he is right.

For instance, last night, the boundary is her phone gets turned off if her chores are not done. I get home and none of her chores are done. She asks for a ride to her friends and I say not until you do your chores. Chores consist of cleaning up after herself, straightening her room and running the vacuum twice a week.  I let her get away with only washing her dishes after you said she’d finish when she got home... .mistake #1

Another boundary is to be home by township curfew (10:00 during the week and 11 one weekends which is too generous to begin with because she is only 14) or the police will be called. That if she wants a ride home, she needs to call me by 10:00 or I will not be coming to get her.  I text her at 9:00 saying that if she wanted a ride, it would have to be then because I was going to have some wine and she knows I don’t drink and drive even if I only have a glass. No response. 10:30 rolls around and I text again reinstating the boundary and that now I would have to call the police. She responded to go ahead because she is getting a ride home anyway and the movie she was watching was almost over. I didn’t call them... .Mistake #2

And there is really no excuse, but last night I had a panick attack. Before all this, and what prompted me to have wine, was that everything hit me at once and like a ton of bricks. I literally thought I was having a nervous breakdown. Externally it wasn’t evident but inside I was a wreck! Again, no excuse though.  I went to bed around 12 with DD still not being home and shut off my cell phone like I always do…

Woke up this morning to two texts, one at 12:04 asking if I was still up (she knows I usually go to bed between 10 – 11 on a work night).  Then another at 12:45 saying that her friend’s mother fell asleep, that she didn’t have a ride home and so was sleeping over night (which has occurred before and she is running out of material). Another boundary I had was that if she stayed out all night without my knowledge or consent, the police would be called and she would be reported as a runaway. Mistake #3

I also woke up to three long text messages from my DH reaming me out DD still running circles around me. That this is exactly what her therapist was saying to me the other day. That in reviewing the tapes (we have cameras set up at home) that DD didn’t do any of her chores and that the phone should have been shut off right than and there when I got home. Saying how with her I cannot give in at all. That I should have never given her a ride to her friend’s house. That I need to treat DD as I would a co-worker  and would I allow a co-worker to treat me like that, etc.

I called DD at 6:30 am this morning when I got up. She answered. I told her that I would be over in a ½ hour to pick her up. She said no, she was sleeping. I told her how she broke the boundary of being out not only past curfew, but all night without my consent. She said but I knew where she was. I said it didn’t matter. I stopped playing ring around the rosey with her after about 3 more texts. She said in her last one how I can come there and she will come out to say hi, but that she’s going back in. I told her she will either be coming home with me or the police.  So I get to the house and beep the horn and she comes out in bare feet. I said get your stuff. She said why? I’m just coming right back here anyway, so I’m gonna stay. I said she had exactly 2 minutes to get her stuff. It got a bit heated.

She did end up going in to get her stuff and got in my car. The 3 minute drive home, yes  3 minute, I reinforced the boundaries and how she crossed them. She said as soon as she got home, she was grabbing some stuff and going right back out. I said well than your phone will be turned off because you are to do your chores before you leave the house. She said she didn’t care. Well I dropped her off and it started pouring. As of right now she is still home.

I called DD this morning on the way to work, as I do to wake him up and told him he was right. And he is. I suck as a parent. Everyone who has eluded to the fact is right.

I'm the one who needs to go away somplace.

[raytamtay3]

I am scared as hell I'm going to one day come home and she is dead.

[Rapt Reader]

raytamtay3 

I'm so sorry for all the turmoil you are going through... .It sounds like maybe things are getting ready for a shift in circumstances? It also sounds like there are some growing pains going on, with you and your daughter. You feel like you've made some terrible decisions--but realizations can also free us to make the changes we need to once we deal with the grief of them. You can now use your insights to do what you need to in order to make things better.

I know you've gotten some great advice and direction on this thread, and also on the one you've got going on the Legal Board. Maybe take a deep breath, have something soothing to sip, and reread both threads with new eyes, and an open mind. You can do this. You love your daughter, want to do what is best for her and your family, your heart is in the right place. You are the mother; you can help steady this rocking ship... .I have to leave right now, but will check in later. This whole site is here for you, raytamtay3, and we all want to help 

[Matt]

I am scared as hell I'm going to one day come home and she is dead.

Our fears keep us stuck in our old behaviors - enabling, co-dependent, dysfunctional.

"But if I do X, or don't do Y, she'll use drugs or hurt herself some other way, and I'll feel responsible.  And I'll have to live with that forever."

Your fears aren't crazy.  It happens.  No matter what you do, your worst fears could come true.  My son tried to kill himself - planned it and did it, and it almost worked.  Now he's in prison, and in some ways, that seemed even worse than if he had died.

Your fears aren't crazy.  It could happen.  You have to live with that knowledge, but not let it drive you to make mistakes - enabling - that will make things worse.

Al-Anon my friend!

[raytamtay3]

I am scared as hell I'm going to one day come home and she is dead.

Our fears keep us stuck in our old behaviors - enabling, co-dependent, dysfunctional.

"But if I do X, or don't do Y, she'll use drugs or hurt herself some other way, and I'll feel responsible.  And I'll have to live with that forever."

Your fears aren't crazy.  It happens.  No matter what you do, your worst fears could come true.  My son tried to kill himself - planned it and did it, and it almost worked.  Now he's in prison, and in some ways, that seemed even worse than if he had died.

Your fears aren't crazy.  It could happen.  You have to live with that knowledge, but not let it drive you to make mistakes - enabling - that will make things worse.

Al-Anon my friend!

I know. And that's the same crap that kept me in a controlling marriage for over 20 years too. I hate being me.

[Matt]

Can you get to an Al-Anon meeting today?

[raytamtay3]

On a lighter note. My mom has a chaplain that comes in as part of her hospice benefit and she asked that he come today to talk to DD.

Every time my DD comes out of a BHC, she talks about religion and in fact, showed me a ring she liked that she saw in a magazine at the place that had a cross on it with a little diamond and the words "You'll never walk alone" inscribed. I ordered it for her for Xmas.

I always say how we can start going to church, but she never wants to.

Both my sister and my brother turned to God when they hit their rock bottom in life. I'm hoping DD will too. I'm up for anything that would help.

[raytamtay3]

Can you get to an Al-Anon meeting today?

LOL. I don't know where to even begin.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[maxen]

after a long, wearying day yesterday i went to an AlAnon meeting. after the hour I was glad i did. it wasn't even the best meeting i'd attended and it was worth it. (i currently have mother issues as well as divorce-from-a-BPD issue.)

raytamtay if you really don't know where to begin, just go online to their site, where there is a list of meetings. of course i don't know if there's one in your area, but maybe there is! if it's your first, just sit and listen. they'll make you welcome.

[Matt]

Can you get to an Al-Anon meeting today?

LOL. I don't know where to even begin.

I'm serious.  Google "al-anon Memphis" or wherever you live. You'll find a list of meetings - where and when - and you just go.  Try a few different ones and see which one you like.  Go to a meeting a day if you can, for a while.  Get the materials they have - no cost I think - and work the steps.

It works.  And I guarantee you will meet people you'll be very glad you know.

We'll wait here while you do the googling and let us know what you find... .

[raytamtay3]

Can you get to an Al-Anon meeting today?

LOL. I don't know where to even begin.

I'm serious.  Google "al-anon Memphis" or wherever you live. You'll find a list of meetings - where and when - and you just go.  Try a few different ones and see which one you like.  Go to a meeting a day if you can, for a while.  Get the materials they have - no cost I think - and work the steps.

It works.  And I guarantee you will meet people you'll be very glad you know.

We'll wait here while you do the googling and let us know what you find... .

No, I know you are serious. It just made me chuckle how you asked if I could get one today for some reason.

I did look it up. There is one on Wednedays at 7:30. But it talks a lot about drinking. Will it really benefit me? I'm just asking. I'm seriously going to go. I promise. Even just told DH who wants to go too and said he'll even leave work early. It may help him too. He drinks often.

Crap. That's the night of my Company's holiday party!

[crazedncrazymom]

Hi Raytamtay,

I just reread this thread and I think the thing that strikes me most is that you may need to reevaluate your boundaries and rules.  How important are they and how far are you willing to go to protect the boundaries and enforce rules. 

It doesn't sound like you are willing to call the police when your dd does xyz.  That's ok. TBH, I tried that and it didn't do much good.  What are you willing to do?  I'd like to point out that everything your daughter has (phone, stereo, tv in room ... .just making stuff up, I only know about the phone) is a privilege.  These aren't things that she deserves just by being your dd.  It's hard to think that way.  I know, because that's the way I thought.  She deserves these things because she's here and she's my daughter, but really that's not true.  She deserves food.  Not even her favorite food, but food that fulfills her nourishment requirements.  She deserves a place to sleep, whether that's on a mattress or not is up to you.  She deserves clothes to wear.  I was advised to take everything but 5 sets of clothes.

I would suggest that you think about other ways to reach her and get her to care about acting in the family's best interests.

-crazed 

[raytamtay3]

Hi Raytamtay,

I just reread this thread and I think the thing that strikes me most is that you may need to reevaluate your boundaries and rules.  How important are they and how far are you willing to go to protect the boundaries and enforce rules. 

It doesn't sound like you are willing to call the police when your dd does xyz.  That's ok. TBH, I tried that and it didn't do much good.  What are you willing to do?  I'd like to point out that everything your daughter has (phone, stereo, tv in room ... .just making stuff up, I only know about the phone) is a privilege.  These aren't things that she deserves just by being your dd.  It's hard to think that way.  I know, because that's the way I thought.  She deserves these things because she's here and she's my daughter, but really that's not true.  She deserves food.  Not even her favorite food, but food that fulfills her nourishment requirements.  She deserves a place to sleep, whether that's on a mattress or not is up to you.  She deserves clothes to wear.  I was advised to take everything but 5 sets of clothes.

I would suggest that you think about other ways to reach her and get her to care about acting in the family's best interests.

-crazed 

She "works" for her phone in that if she does her chores, she keeps it turned on.

We've gotten into something we call "detention" mode where we took away cable tv, junk food, put up cameras, put deadbolts on door in hopes it would phase DD. Nope. It took months for her to start even trying to earn things back. And up until that point, made things worse i.e., she'd purposely leave the lights on, leave front door wide open, throw laundry around, leave cabinents open, dishes everywhere, etc.

[raytamtay3]

I really appreciate all of you and your advice and suggestions. I need to be told like it is on occassion to make me realize that I might be handling something wrong, etc. When you're in it, it's sometimes hard to see what's really going on. And I guess I'm a creature of habit from being with my exh from the time I was 15 until I was 38, who has similiar "traits" as DD.

My ex should have been a lawyer and my DD should be one too. They have this way of convincing you you are wrong. Will debate you until they win and you give up from pure exhaustion. Will make you question yourself non-stop.  I know it's wrong to compare. But I feel like I finally got myself out of an emotionally and verbally abusive controlling marriage, to only have to still deal with it with DD. I have gotten to the point these past few months where I walk away and go to my room where she can't follow me like my ex use to do too, but it's still hard. She stopped banging on the door and stopped walking out the back door on to our deck which connects to my bedroom to knock on that while whistling.

Just venting.

[raytamtay3]

Last post. I have something funny to share... .About four months ago I sent a letter to Dr. Phil explaining our struggles and asking for him to give us help with our daughter in hopes we'd be able to have her sent to one of those ranches they advocate. Of course I never received a response. But that's how desperate I am.

[Being Mindful]

Ray, My experience was that change had to begin with me. Not my ill daughter. How about looking up your local NAMI Office? They have some great supports and classes. Some posters have encouraged you to go back and re-read this thread. I encourage you to do that and keep an open mind to the suggestions given and ask yourself... .

1. Have I done any of these?

2. If not, when can I start? What is my plan?

3. Have I accessed the numerous resources and links here to begin learning how I can change and what impact I have in my relationship with my D.?

It is hard to do this. I know. Took me a long time to slow my rollercoaster and realize this. I was so caught up in the chaos and venting that it prevented me from the real work that had to be done. Know that we are with you on this road. Some are just starting their journey, some are part way through, some have crossed over into a place of acceptance and real change. We are pulling for you.

Being Mindful

P.S. Many of us also had the help of a therapist to help see us through. That might help too.

[Matt]

One thought... .what is a normal and healthy schedule for a 14-year-old?  And does it include being away from home on a school night?

My kids are S15, D17, SD25 and SS35.  My kids come home after school, or if they have after-school activities like sports, right after that.  Priority is homework.  Then help with dinner, set the table, take out the trash.  After dinner help with dishes, finish homework, and if there's time, TV in the living room, or computer time.  It is very rare that they even ask to go out on a weeknight, and even more rare that I say yes.  Why does a high-school student need to go out on a school night?

They're both very good students and very good kids.  No problem with alcohol or drugs (so far) - in sharp contrast with my older son - different story... .

So... .if you are routinely letting your 14-year-old daughter go out on school nights - not as a special treat because she has been doing super-well in school and with her behavior, but just as a normal thing - I wonder if there is a way to re-set that pattern - not to punish her but because it's not normal or healthy.

That won't fix all your problems, but at least the business about calling you at 10:00 or 11:00 to get a ride, or staying out all night, that goes away.  Her bedtime should be maybe 9:00 or so on a school night - in her room, in bed, lights out.

[Surnia]

This thread has reached the page limit and is now locked.  Feel free to pick one of the topics from the thread to start a new one.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders