Setting boundaries

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi everyone - I am new to the site and am trying to maintain a friendship with a close friend who I believe is living with BPD.

My question is about boundary setting. Having not had to do this in the past, I am struggling with how to word a boundary. I understand the philosophy about why to set them etc... .but am confused about actual examples of 'how' to communicate them.

I read the Boundary workshop and saw that some people don't support threats of leaving, yet others do... .perhaps if I give you an example of what I am thinking I would say, you could offer alternatives or suggestions.

"When you say you are going to steal something, it makes me feel uncomfortable. If you say that you are going to steal when I am with you, I will need to consider stopping what we are doing and heading off on my own for a while"

Second example

"When you make sexually suggestive comments, I feel like you are not respecting me as a friend... .and that makes me feel that I should make myself scarce for a while"

Bear in mind that I am a guy and my friend is also a guy (married) - but he has tried to initiate intimacy with me on a couple of occasions... .and I can see that cycle starting again.

Thanks for your help.

[Aussieguy]

Hi everyone - I am new to the site and am trying to maintain a friendship with a close friend who I believe is living with BPD.

My question is about boundary setting. Having not had to do this in the past, I am struggling with how to word a boundary. I understand the philosophy about why to set them etc... .but am confused about actual examples of 'how' to communicate them.

I read the Boundary workshop and saw that some people don't support threats of leaving, yet others do... .perhaps if I give you an example of what I am thinking I would say, you could offer alternatives or suggestions.

"When you say you are going to steal something, it makes me feel uncomfortable. If you say that you are going to steal when I am with you, I will need to consider stopping what we are doing and heading off on my own for a while"

Second example

"When you make sexually suggestive comments, I feel like you are not respecting me as a friend... .and that makes me feel that I should make myself scarce for a while"

Bear in mind that I am a guy and my friend is also a guy (married) - but he has tried to initiate intimacy with me on a couple of occasions... .and I can see that cycle starting again.

Thanks for your help.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[waverider]

"When you say you are going to steal something, it makes me feel uncomfortable. If you say that you are going to steal when I am with you, I will need to consider stopping what we are doing and heading off on my own for a while"

Second example

"When you make sexually suggestive comments, I feel like you are not respecting me as a friend... .and that makes me feel that I should make myself scarce for a while"

The bits bolded are your problem. They stop it being a boundary and simply make it a demand (in fact not even that, a request). What makes it a boundary is to do what you say, not consider it. A pwBPD will not respect a boundary until they hit it and are stopped by enacted consequences, telling them you are thinking about stopping it, and even telling them you have a limit makes no difference. In fact it can encourage them to test it.

The way you phrased it you have simply expressed how you feel, expect them to understand and respect it. In their minds how they feel is far more important than how you feel. Often they may care about your feelings in so far as how you feel about them.

eg

You feel bad (so what, indifference,maybe a chance to get some brownie points to make it look like they care... again to affect how you feel about them)

You feel bad about them (emotional alert, a reaction is essential, you need to be fought or turned around, it is not ok to feel bad about them)

[Aussieguy]

Thanks for the comment. So what you are saying is that I should just name the behaviour, say how it affects me and what I will do about it? Or all of the above, but carry out the consequence without having laid the ground rules in the first place?

Again - I appreciate any helpful suggestions.

[waverider]

You can state what you won't accept if you feel it is likely to be received. Though this in itself could trigger a drama, and you might get dragged into justifying, arguing, defending and explaining (JADE). This drags you off the moral ground often onto a tangent until you become less sure of yourself. Fair negotiations are not a BPD trait, they prefer the battering ram technique.

The important thing is you act on your boundary. Often that alone will be obvious. Think it through in advance, and stick to it each and every time without compromise. Initial reaction will be bad, but you have to be strong and weather that if you want real change, it is not a quick process.

[Theo41]

I'm certainly not an expert. Waverider is very knowledgable and my limited experience with boundries is consistent with what he says. It's not what you say so much as what you do. Verbally announcing a boundry while she is  not disregulated will disregulate her in my experience.

I was told: "BOUNDRIES ARE FOR YOU". She's gonna do what she's gonna do. You need to know when enough is enough for you and take appropriate action. In my case that is usually leaving the room or house. It usually goes better when I tell her how long I'll be gone. They have an extreme fear of abandonment and are more willing to let go if they know you'll be back at a certain time. 

In my case,for now, it's about taking care of myself by getting out or moving away from unhealthy, upsetting, inappropriate, or hurtful behavior. You can't change other people but you have some control over yourself and how you react to their behavior.

[Aussieguy]

Thanks again - this is new ground for me. I'm sorry, but I don't understand what is meant by disregulated. Can anyone help?

[waverider]

Dysregulated means when all logical thought and reasoning has gone and someone is reacting purely on emotion. 'Lost the plot" "irrational'. In this condition it is near impossible to debate or discuss issues, they are in full fight or fight mode.

Essentially they can no longer regulate or control their emotions.

[Aussieguy]

If I could ask one other question. The friend I have referred to in the post has developed a habit of making a plan to catch up (usually by text message) and then I hear nothing further as the time approaches. The 'plan' is sufficiently vague that he can say I misread the intention, but sufficiently direct to create an expectation.

This has happened again today. I would like to create some kind of boundary around this, as it is happening more regularly. Do you have any suggestions as to how I should respond to this in future? It is a difficult issue for me, as I believe in keeping a commitment when I make one, but realise this is not how he would probably see it.

Thanks for your help.

[waverider]

This is a difficult one as decisions are made on impulse, and once the impulse has waned then so does the planned action. They will not follow through simply on a basis of responsibility or consideration.

You could consider requesting confirmation closer to the time of the activity (this bit is not the boundary).

No confirmation = You not scheduling a space frame for activity.(This bit is the boundary)

Confirmation will overcome issues of vagueness, nor is it inconvenient if you are using txt

[Aussieguy]

Thanks - that has given me an idea of a way forward. I appreciate it.

[Chosen]

I think waverider has said it very well already, and I will add my two cents:

- I don't think you need to explain why you have that boundary.  They are doing something you don't accept, if I were you I wouldn't say "If you do hit I feel disrespected... ." because I am sure my pwBPD will then argue with me about how my feelings are wrong. 

- It is best to state the boundary in a short sentence, so you don't muddle it up, and that you can repeat it exactly the same way every time.  Sometimes it takes a pwBPD to repeatedly hear something for it to sink in.  I may say something like, "If you say you will steal things when I am with you, I will not hang out with you on that day." 

They will not like it, but you're doing it for you, not for them to like you. 

[Aussieguy]

Thank you - this is a steel learning curve for me... .your support is appreciated.

[zaqsert]

Hi Aussieguy,

Adding to what Waverider wrote about making plans... .  Many here have suggested having a backup plan (or two) of your own.  Don't bother telling your friend about it.  Just know that you have it.  Then if your friend never shows up at the vaguely committed time, you still have something to do that you will enjoy.

You are less likely to feel resentful, as you will not have wasted your time.  And if your friend happens to be doing any of this as a way to try to control you then it will no longer have a controlling effect on you.

[Aussieguy]

Yes - that is a good idea too... .I am glad I found this website - it is helping me order

My thoughts. Thanks again.

[Grey Kitty]

The key to boundaries is that they are actions you take to protect yourself.

We call this action "enforcing your boundary." The language is important, because YOU are the one doing the enforcement. The other party (pwBPD) has no choice (once they take the action you set a boundary around) as to whether you enforce the boundary or not. Consistency on your part will be most helpful in getting over the initial adjustment as cleanly as possible.

In both cases, talking about stealing, and suggestive comments, you don't like hearing that, and (I assume) really don't want to experience what is spoken of.

The best protection you can get from these is to leave his company for a while.

A strict approach would be to give him one warning at most: "If you do not stop speaking of X, I will (leave, go home, whatever fits the situation)."

Or simply "I am calling it a night."

[Aussieguy]

Thank you! Such simple wording but so effective with no room for misinterpreting. I really like the combination. I think I will go with the warning (the first time) ad follow it with the "I'll call it a night" comment. Thanks again.

[Kettlepot]

Zaqsert that's good advice.

From my own new experience of setting boundaries with my exSO with uBPD, having a backup plan works. Having plans cancelled at last minute made me feel resentful and usually started a pity party.

Having a back up plan allows me to say "her loss" and move quickly to focussing on something else and not let her 'rent space' in my head.

An obvious course of action when set out like this but was something I failed to see for quite some time.

[Aussieguy]

Thank you all for the comments. Having just been subjected to what I now know is a push pull cycle, I must confess I am feeling a bit flat about all of this. I think my emotional investment in trying to prove what a reliable friend I am is more about my own insecurity and perfectionism, than the behaviour of this particular friend.

Really lost at the moment about what to do - will keep reading in the meantime.

Thanks again.

[waverider]

I think my emotional investment in trying to prove what a reliable friend I am is more about my own insecurity and perfectionism, than the behaviour of this particular friend.

Very insightful.

We often try too hard to make someone else what we want them to be, and react their part in our own need for self validation and blind ourselves to reality.

pwBPD tend to do the extreme of this in the early idealization phase of a relationship, then there is greater backlash when this proves to be not so. We must make sure we don't do the same.

[zaqsert]

I think my emotional investment in trying to prove what a reliable friend I am is more about my own insecurity and perfectionism, than the behaviour of this particular friend.

Very insightful.

Very insightful indeed.

We often try too hard to make someone else what we want them to be, and react their part in our own need for self validation and blind ourselves to reality.

Well put too.

In case an example helps, for me it was that for many years I had a very strong need to have others see me the way I believed I was.  Say I truly had good intentions when I said something to my uBPDw.  I knew I had good intentions.  But if my wife felt that I had horrible intentions towards her, that bugged the living daylights out of me.  I just had to set it straight.

There were two important things that did not sink in until much later on for me.

1.  I can't make her feel anything.  I can't change her feelings.  I can tell her my truth (e.g., SET), but I cannot change her mind for her.  That's up to her and only her.  I had to learn to let go.

2.  I don't need others to validate who I am, what I believe, or what I feel.  I knew I had good intentions.  If she does not believe it, that does not change who I am or what I feel.  This one was a lot harder to learn.  I learned it gradually, after getting some of the other important lessons in place, and then trying out newer, more healthy approaches.  I have not entirely overcome this need for validation.  I still sometimes start with a bad feeling when someone who matters has a bad impression of me, but that bad feeling goes away much, much faster than it used to, and I move on.  And I tend to seek out other sources of validation that are more reliable, like a very close friend or bpdfamily.com.