How can you love me/are you going to leave me?

[earthgirl]

How do you respond to those questions?

I love my uBPDH, very much.  I want to make this relationship work.  We've been married 5 months and I am, already, feeling exhausted and fragile.  I want to reassure him that I don't take my commitment lightly -- I want to stay married for life -- but I also want to convey that my commitment isn't a blank check for him to behave however he wants.  He keeps saying, "I need to know you're going to see this through -- if you are going to leave, do it now."  (I've never even remotely threatened to leave him.)

I know he fears abandonment, and I don't want to fuel that.  But when he's just acted like an ___, I am at a loss for how to answer.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[an0ught]

Hi earthgirl,

his need for re-assurance is a bottomless pit. You can't throw enough "I love you" or "I'm committed" sandbags into it to close it. Sometimes it may even be the case the more you throw in the deeper the bottom of the hole moves. Frustrating to say the least.

1) Read up on boundaries/limits. It is his job anyways to deal with his fears and it is ok not to constantly pet him. And it won't be liked at first. But then he has to learn to trust your old commitments and how can he when he is constantly asking for new commitments?

2) Read up on validation. When he is faced with fear it may be best to focus communication on exactly that even when we struggle to express unpleasant feelings. It is best not resort to too much reassurance. In fact too much reassurance can be invalidating and prevent him to regulate his fear.

You find some pointers to relevant workshops in the LESSONS

[earthgirl]

Ah, an0ought, that is very good stuff.  What a totally different perspective than the one I had... .and much appreciated.  So I need to think about acknowledging his fear/hearing it... .focus on the emotion he's feeling, which, as I have read here, is not wrong, it's just an emotion.  I've been looking at it from the standpoint of *me* and my plans, which I see isn't the point.  He is feeling this emotion (fear) that I can acknowledge and maybe ask him to explore further with me.

*lightbulb moment*

Thank you 

[earthgirl]

And, thinking further about your answer... .doing so will take the focus off me (attempts to reassure -- futile anyway, from what you're saying) and that can be a boundary.  I can refuse to make unconditional promises.

I feel better. 

[an0ught]

I can refuse to make unconditional promises.

I feel better. 

Excellent point with the boundary. By having what you say and what you believe aligned you

- get it across more credibly

- feel less stressed

- build self esteem as you are able to walk the talk

[hergestridge]

I tell my bid wife over and over that I can't love her unconditionally (the subject comes up apropos her demanding I make unconditional promises of course - "How do I know that you you're not leaving me tomorrow?".

However, she's not having any of it.

The only love she accepts is the uncoditional type. All other love is false. This is one of the things that goes round and around her head when her darkest and most destructive thoughts begin and she becomes suicidal. If there is no unconditional love then she's out of here. Out of this world, out of this life.

My take on this, and what I tell her, is that unconditional love is what a parent gives to a child. A grown up can't have it from another grown up. And since she's a christian (or at least sometimes she claims to be) I also use the religious metaphor - that god will allways love and forgive, but you can't expect forgiveness and love from other people.

My advice is to keep telling the truth. Everyone, including a BPD person, has to know that you can wear out your welcome.

I was young naive once and promise I'd love forever, not knowing what I was in for. Not that she remember me ever saying that mind you... .

[briefcase]

My advice is to keep telling the truth. Everyone, including a BPD person, has to know that you can wear out your welcome.

I was young naive once and promise I'd love forever, not knowing what I was in for. Not that she remember me ever saying that mind you... .

I have a slightly different take.  It's wise to know this truth and never forget it - we all have boundaries, including "deal breaker" boundaries that have the potential to end the relationship.  I think the problem though isn't so much that our partners forget this, it's actually what they spend too much time worrying about.  I think the problem is that we forget this truth and don't always honor our own limits in things both large and small. From my perspective, it's much more important to remember to remind yourself of this truth, rather than reminding your partner (which only reinforces their anxiety and fear). 

[hergestridge]

My advice is to keep telling the truth. Everyone, including a BPD person, has to know that you can wear out your welcome.

I was young naive once and promise I'd love forever, not knowing what I was in for. Not that she remember me ever saying that mind you... .

I have a slightly different take.  It's wise to know this truth and never forget it - we all have boundaries, including "deal breaker" boundaries that have the potential to end the relationship.  I think the problem though isn't so much that our partners forget this, it's actually what they spend too much time worrying about.  I think the problem is that we forget this truth and don't always honor our own limits in things both large and small. From my perspective, it's much more important to remember to remind yourself of this truth, rather than reminding your partner (which only reinforces their anxiety and fear). 

But that leaves us with another question: What to do they cross our boundaries? If you do it my way you tell the BPD to back off. If you do it your way you leave. Did I get it right?

If someone crosses your boundaries all the time, how can you maintain tour boundaries without reminding the BPD of the boundary and/ot crossing of boundary? It becomes conflict.

[briefcase]

earthgirl wanted to know how to respond when her husband asks her how she can love him or if she is going to leave him.  There is no good way to answer these questions directly if her goal is to lessen his anxiety and improve the relationship (which we can assume is the goal since we're on the Staying Board).

In response to his question - Are you going to leave me? - she can answer this directly with some form of yes, no, or I don't know/maybe.  

The problem is that none of these response will actually help improve the relationship.  Telling him she won't leave him does not really reassure him because he asks this over and over again - to the point it's become exhausting, and maybe even to the point where she's not 100% sure herself anymore.  His anxiety is coming from inside of him, and no amount of external reassurance from her can fix that for him.

Let's look at how a completely honest response - You know, I might have to end this if you keep this up - might be received by him.  So, if he asks her everyday for a week if she's going to leave him and she gives this response, do you suppose he will get the message and back off?  Or is he likely to become even more anxious and needy?  Even if he stops asking the question, will the relationship be improved?  Maybe temporarily, but his anxiety and insecurity will quickly come out some other way.  So the "honest" response will probably not improve the relationship.

A better day-to-day response is to simply validate what he's feeling - the emotion driving the confounding question in the first place.  

Are you going to leave me?

You sound worried.  What's wrong?

Yeah!  I'm worried you are going to leave me.

That must feel terrible.  Why do you think that?

Now, at some point, this may become a boundary issue, and fairness probably requires some hard truth (in SET format, of course!):

I love you.  I know you're worried about our relationship and feeling anxious.  Asking me everyday if I'm going to leave you is damaging our relationship and wearing me out.

There is a place for honesty and leveling.  But, for the day to day interactions its probably better to stick with validation.  

If it becomes a boundary that needs enforced, asking, or telling, a BPD to do something is an ineffective way to get the result you want.  Because they don't back off when you ask.  They don't respect boundaries.  So, you have to enforce your boundary and protect yourself.

Walking away is one way to do that.  But, in this example, a better way may be to simply endlessly repeat a stock response, like a broken record.  I love you, and as we discussed, I'm not answering that question anymore. - repeated each time he asks, over and over.  

[earthgirl]

Thank you all for your imput.  And Briefcase, that's wonderful.  Cutting and pasting (into a safe file). 

[waverider]

A pwBPD lives in the here and now, what they, or you feel now, defines how things will always be. The fact that life and situations are always in a state of flux does not register with them, even though they are classic case of this happening.

Hence if you start allowing for conditions to change, then they will assume that change is now. If they believe there is a remote possibility you may leave them anytime in the future then that may as well be tomorrow. So its pointless to go on in their eyes... Hence they demand unconditional responses.

You need to put yourself in the same mindset in order to communicate effectively and block what may or may not happen down the track.

You need not repeat yourself other than say your feelings have not changed.