Caution - strong language

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I am really screwing up this weekend.

He came out again this morning and again ... we hung out for a couple of hours - since my last post here until about 3 minutes ago.

He has made a point of asking me if I was interested in the steak he is defrosting for dinner (I was noncommittal and managed to change the subject without answering) ... but we shared a game on his new iPhone and  ... well ... talked and hung out ... .he even went back to stories with sexual content (not aimed at me, but stuff that men/women don't share unless they have 'been there' ... .

What in the f&cking f&ck of f&chtonia am I doing?

He even told me he was off to help his father by the new TV he had asked my advice re last night ... .when he was leaving, he said "OK dear ... back soon" ... .'dear' was one of the nicknames/terms of endearment that he used to use ... I hadn't heard since our split ... m'dear, my love, lover and dear ... .talk about triggers for me ... .

I think we both just took a step back when that slipped out ... .

I am floundering here ... I don't think he knows that ... I can behave in a detached manner when I need to ... but, seriously ... What the heck?

[damage control]

I am really screwing up this weekend.

He came out again this morning and again ... we hung out for a couple of hours - since my last post here until about 3 minutes ago.

He has made a point of asking me if I was interested in the steak he is defrosting for dinner (I was noncommittal and managed to change the subject without answering) ... but we shared a game on his new iPhone and  ... well ... talked and hung out ... .he even went back to stories with sexual content (not aimed at me, but stuff that men/women don't share unless they have 'been there' ... .

What in the f&cking f&ck of f&chtonia am I doing?

He even told me he was off to help his father by the new TV he had asked my advice re last night ... .when he was leaving, he said "OK dear ... back soon" ... .'dear' was one of the nicknames/terms of endearment that he used to use ... I hadn't heard since our split ... m'dear, my love, lover and dear ... .talk about triggers for me ... .

I think we both just took a step back when that slipped out ... .

I am floundering here ... I don't think he knows that ... I can behave in a detached manner when I need to ... but, seriously ... What the heck?

[santa]

Sounds like your relationship is back on to me. Better get control of things fast or you'll have to start posting on the staying forum... .Lol

[maxen]

the f&cking f&ck of f&chtonia

you win bpdfamily for today.

[damage control]

Sounds like your relationship is back on to me. Better get control of things fast or you'll have to start posting on the staying forum... .Lol

Santa: This 'hanging out' dynamic has plagued me for the past 5/6 weeks - since he dumped me - it was something that confused me then and continues to do so today ... so, I don't imagine it's more than that to him ... .

I had put a stop to it for a few short days ... f&ck!

[damage control]

the f&cking f&ck of f&chtonia

you win bpdfamily for today.

I do? That is so cool ... I never win anything ...  

[patientandclear]

I'd say what is happening is that you are, completely understandably, choosing the comfort of momentary validation and something that seems similar to a time when you were happy ... .over a bitter, cold-feeling reality.

There's almost no one on here who hasn't made that choice.

There's a great quote in The Road Less Traveled, however, about how mental health is the choice of reality over comfort.  The problem is that the momentary comfort you're allowing yourself comes with a downside, whenever he chooses to turn off the road that leads back to the r/s you were expecting when you moved there.  Whether that's when he goes to his room & gets on the dating site, or goes to some other woman's house, or does all kinds of things with you that go with a r/s except for the part where you say you have a r/s, oh, and where you have sex and aren't dating others or trying to date others ... .

Practically the only non-hurtful activity you've reported him engaged in the past week or so has been the project of buying the TV.  The rest of it: all at odds with that feeling your comfort-seeking impulse is trying to regain for you.

I've spent a ton of time building a post-sexual friendship with my ex, so I'm not saying it can't have value, but this soon after the split, it is overwhelmingly likely that you will be looking to it to restore what was taken away from you.  It's highly unlikely he is prepared to do that, and highly likely that he's overjoyed that you'll spend time with him in this ambiguous, no expectations, undefined way, and haven't written him off.  He is getting to keep most of what he feared he lost, this way.

There's nothing per se wrong with that in my opinion -- again, I've intentionally constructed an intimate friendship with my ex, so I'm not denouncing the concept -- unless you allow malignant hope to creep in & get you to hoping that this will ripen into what you wanted & thought you had.    But how can you not, at this stage?  Frankly, it's been a huge challenge for me to keep malignant hope at bay, even after that long period of NC.  Things are really good, deep and sweet with us, and I can't imagine that that won't lead to more, but in fact, it leads him to fall apart.  It's taken me a lot of experience to deeply believe that that is the pattern and that's the best we can hope for.  I offer this only as a cautionary tale in case your mind starts back on the loop you were caught in when you posted your "brainwashed" thread -- thinking "what's so bad about him being this way? maybe I should just accommodate it all?"

Bottom line: you're feeling the pull of not hurting for a moment, or an hour -- the validation of feeling wanted and chosen.  No doubt, the validation of him not heading to the other woman's place.  To deal with it, if you want to, I think it's useful to ask yourself, OK, with everything I now know about how he's operated in the past: what's next if I carry on with this course?

[Waifed]

Sounds like your relationship is back on to me. Better get control of things fast or you'll have to start posting on the staying forum... .Lol

Santa: This 'hanging out' dynamic has plagued me for the past 5/6 weeks - since he dumped me - it was something that confused me then and continues to do so today ... so, I don't imagine it's more than that to him ... .

I had put a stop to it for a few short days ... f&ck!

As long as you are there he thinks he controls you. If he "thought" you were seeing someone he would turn it up a notch to test his control. (Probably rage too). You said you wanted to mess with him. LOL

[Lady31]

DC,

I'm sorry. I know it's tough.  I lived with my exh for a period after he decided (for the last time as I made it stick!) that he wanted a divorce.  It was NOT pretty.  You don't heal while still being engaged with the on this level.  It is not even possible in my opinion.

Simple answer is - this is not surprising to me at all (what you are going through with the back and forth).  I will point to what I have in the past:  I would be putting all energies into finding another house share or situation.

Until you do that - this is your life and will continue to be your life. 

[GreenMango]

DC you cracked me up.  It's real easy to get swirled up in this. 

He probably doesn't have a good bead on what hes doing either.  It sounds like he's doing what feels better at the time. 

Can you make yourself scarce for the weekend.  The steak is date.

[damage control]

I'd say what is happening is that you are, completely understandably, choosing the comfort of momentary validation and something that seems similar to a time when you were happy ... .over a bitter, cold-feeling reality.

There's almost no one on here who hasn't made that choice.

There's a great quote in The Road Less Traveled, however, about how mental health is the choice of reality over comfort.  The problem is that the momentary comfort you're allowing yourself comes with a downside, whenever he chooses to turn off the road that leads back to the r/s you were expecting when you moved there.  Whether that's when he goes to his room & gets on the dating site, or goes to some other woman's house, or does all kinds of things with you that go with a r/s except for the part where you say you have a r/s, oh, and where you have sex and aren't dating others or trying to date others ... .

Practically the only non-hurtful activity you've reported him engaged in the past week or so has been the project of buying the TV.  The rest of it: all at odds with that feeling your comfort-seeking impulse is trying to regain for you.

I've spent a ton of time building a post-sexual friendship with my ex, so I'm not saying it can't have value, but this soon after the split, it is overwhelmingly likely that you will be looking to it to restore what was taken away from you.  It's highly unlikely he is prepared to do that, and highly likely that he's overjoyed that you'll spend time with him in this ambiguous, no expectations, undefined way, and haven't written him off.  He is getting to keep most of what he feared he lost, this way.

There's nothing per se wrong with that in my opinion -- again, I've intentionally constructed an intimate friendship with my ex, so I'm not denouncing the concept -- unless you allow malignant hope to creep in & get you to hoping that this will ripen into what you wanted & thought you had.    But how can you not, at this stage?  Frankly, it's been a huge challenge for me to keep malignant hope at bay, even after that long period of NC.  Things are really good, deep and sweet with us, and I can't imagine that that won't lead to more, but in fact, it leads him to fall apart.  It's taken me a lot of experience to deeply believe that that is the pattern and that's the best we can hope for.  I offer this only as a cautionary tale in case your mind starts back on the loop you were caught in when you posted your "brainwashed" thread -- thinking "what's so bad about him being this way? maybe I should just accommodate it all?"

Bottom line: you're feeling the pull of not hurting for a moment, or an hour -- the validation of feeling wanted and chosen.  No doubt, the validation of him not heading to the other woman's place.  To deal with it, if you want to, I think it's useful to ask yourself, OK, with everything I now know about how he's operated in the past: what's next if I carry on with this course?

P+C:

read this yesterday while he was out with his father helping choose the new TV. I didn't know how to respond and I still don't really because I know you are right. But I have spent hours considering what you wrote ... and I will do my best to articulate the emotional soup that are my thoughts right now.

I know I am vulnerable on weekends and will continue to be. I guess I have figured that it would get easier to see him go off to the replacement's house - but that is never going to happen, ever. That is not because of his new relationship 'as such' (which is what I thought it was at the start) ... it's because my abandonment kicks in every single time he does it ... conversely, my abandonment is kept at bay when he doesn't ... it's an instinctual response. It's why, I think weekdays are good ... .I know he will be here and whether I see him or not is irrelevant ... I don't need or necessarily want to - my adult mind doesn't even really crave his company anymore but my abandoned child feels soothed knowing 'someone' is at home.

I don't know if I have posted this anywhere else, but I had an unusual upbringing. MY 2 brothers and sister were/are all 9,10, 11 years older than me and my mother worked 2-3 jobs always. This meant that my sister (initially) was left to raise me, however she left when I was about 6. Another brother soon followed and I was left with just one brother who resented me and who did not have the emotional capacity to look after a small child. He abused me in that he mocked me and would never allow me to touch him or hug him ... he complained that he was 'stuck' looking after me or, he would take me out at night and then leave me while he went off with his friends - and then tell me never to tell our mother where we had been, and as I adored him, I never did. I never saw my father, who left when I was 2. My brothers and sister had a different father to me, from a different marriage. When my mother married my father it was bad for my siblings: he was an alcoholic and used to hit my mother and my brother - I never really saw this as he was gone by the time I was 2 but my brother resented me due to my dad ... he still does I think.

I rarely saw my mother as she worked late nights and early mornings and would sleep while I was at school. She had Sundays off work but would spent the day cooking and cleaning ... .she was a lovely woman but I never knew or saw her ever.

When i was 8 or 9, my brother also left. Dramatically and for a very long time and so, I had nobody.

I have vivid memories of lying in bed late at night and crying/calling out for my mother ... I couldn't tell you what I used to be so upset about but I can tell you that she never heard me ... never came to my room.

My father died when I was 19, my mother when I was 24 ... .so I never go tthe chance to heal those wounds with either of them. MY brothers and sister are virtually strangers, they have a relationship but I am the odd duck - because of the age difference and the fact that they grew up together ... I never feel like I belong with or to them.

So, when I say that my abandonment issues kick in, and that knowing 'he' is in the house soothes me ... .you can probably see what I am talking about ... it is no small thing. Alternatively, 'him' going away to stay with my replacement brings this stuff up all over again.  

Last night, he cooked me dinner (this again is linked to mother/father issues ... he has always cooked for me and when he does, I feel cared about/for ... dumb but true). We talked for an hour or so and then he said he was completely bombed and going to bed ... .that was the whole night ...

My adult, well ... .she recognises that without the intimacy of sex (and sex is a huge part of our dynamic ... or it was) ... I quite 'like' this man, we get alog 'quite' well ... but there is nothing special about him or our friendship ... I have other 'friends' like him ... it was the sex that set him apart, the sex that fulfilled what was missing ... the seduction of the caregiver so they won't leave I guess ... .my own twisted little trauma ... .

And I DO have a malignant hope that the sex will be reinstated - I know that it won't - but the longing for physical comfort is just overwhelming at times.

If I continue with this? That is the pattern ... he will sit close to me,  feign intimacy, joke and laugh with me ... cook for me and do everything but have sex with me (except, he didn't invite me to his room to 'watch something' like he has previously ... so perhaps he is detaching even more as well ... in his room we used to touch, hug, hold hands even after the split ... .it appears that this is also past-tense).

This morning, I am at war with myself ... this malignant hope that you speak of ... it has me in its grasp.

[damage control]

As long as you are there he thinks he controls you. If he "thought" you were seeing someone he would turn it up a notch to test his control. (Probably rage too). You said you wanted to mess with him. LOL

Waifed ... he thinks that he 'has' me anyway ... and he isn't wrong.

He honestly wouldn't be that fussed if he thought I 'had' someone I don't think ... .well, not in the sense that you or I would be fussed - he identifies as polyamorous ... yeah ... I know ... but he doesn't feel, or completely shuts down sexual jealousy ... actually, I think it's just one of the many emotions that he has completely submerged ... he claims to feel anger, lust and fear ... and that is is ... not even love ... .but he cal really, REALLY like someone  ... ugh ... .I think it is more potent for me to ignore him ... that is what throws him ... it's the only thing that throws him.

As for playing with him ... well now, didn't that come back to bite on the proverbial? ... . 

[damage control]

DC you cracked me up.  It's real easy to get swirled up in this.  

He probably doesn't have a good bead on what hes doing either.  It sounds like he's doing what feels better at the time.  

Can you make yourself scarce for the weekend.  The steak is date.

Hey GM ... thanks for chiming in

I was doing so well and have been in a great mood all week AND able to look at the situation with detachment and irony ... and I LIKE being that me ... .too bad she quit and went on the date-from-hell right? ... .

"the steak is date"? ... that sounds prophetic ... . ... .what a ludicrous situation huh? ... .seriously, only I could manage to land in a spider's web, get untangled and then jump into the mouth of a shark ... I'm a talented girl that way!

Perhaps he to doesn't know or understand what he is doing and is also self-soothing ... I know my not speaking to him really threw him this past week ... but, unlike him, I'm not also climbing into bed with somebody else on weekends nor do I trawl dating sites all day and night every day and night so ... I'm thinking my sympathies are with me rather than the aging man who needs a stranger to get sexual satisfaction and validation ... I'm just saying  

[damage control]

DC,

I'm sorry. I know it's tough.  I lived with my exh for a period after he decided (for the last time as I made it stick!) that he wanted a divorce.  It was NOT pretty.  You don't heal while still being engaged with the on this level.  It is not even possible in my opinion.

Simple answer is - this is not surprising to me at all (what you are going through with the back and forth).  I will point to what I have in the past:  I would be putting all energies into finding another house share or situation.

Until you do that - this is your life and will continue to be your life. 

Hiya Lady ... thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts.

You are right ... it is impossible to heal while still engaged ... I am better... .I am A LOT better than what I was ... and I cope with the weekdays exceptionally well ... while I am at work I am great ... but coming home to the tomb-from-hell is ... well, it's a hump ever single time. And, as posted above (and everywhere else) ... weekends have become a time of self-medication, recrimination and tears ... .

I don't know if you are aware of my situation, but getting a new place is complicated by money (I have only just started work and only had 2 paychecks) and getting my dog over from the other side of the country (money again) ... together with the fact that I don't know this massive city at all so, locating the right places to share is like navigating Mars ... I need to be close to work and home (for my dog). This has now been complicated further by work - they are currently training me for the new contract and my travelling time for the next week has been bumped from 30 minutes each way to about 2.5 each way ... as I am 'training', work is utterly draining, I am 'learning' all day every day, not just 'working' ... so to say that I am exhausted when I get home is a big understatement.

This contributes to the difficulty in finding alternative digs - it's a time thing as well as a money thing as well as needing to fly home for a couple of days for my doggie thing ... .my energy and mindset is geared toward just 'getting through' the workday and/or trying not to commit homicide on the weekends.

[patientandclear]

DC, that was such an honest, touching, gut wrenching story of your growing up. I applaud your self awareness that those factors are in play for you--of course they are, how could they not be?

I wish I could go back in time & come respond to you when you were in bed crying for your mom to come.  

I totally get what you mean about how your guy sits there all but touching you. Mine does the same. When we last saw each other, I swear you couldn't have slid a piece of paper btwn us, he was so wrapped around me, as we stood in an art gallery, as we sat on a train ... .but he never once touched me except for hugs hello & goodbye (which I hate BTW--such a strange substitute for how we ujsed to touch each other).

I understand the confusion & emotional soup. I understand how hard it is to forego the comfort of the moment in favor of emptiness. People say you need to step away from this & choose a healthier love in the future, but the truth for me is, that could be years in coming or never. Men choose younger women, I scare men with my actual & perceived professional power, etc. -- there are reasons it's not obvious to me that there will be someone else to provide this comfort if I let him go completely. I'm doubtful there will be someone else as compelling to me as he is. Maybe this is the best he can do? So go my thoughts, very similar to those you listed on your "brainwashed" thread--though what my ex & yours are willing/able to give is clearly not what they promised us & not what we ideally would want.

[damage control]

Thank you for the offered comfort to my rather desperate inner child P+C ...

I completely understand about the hugs making you feel bad ... .it's like a reminder of what you don't have ... sucks.

I don't know how you do and reading you say that you doubt you ever will step away just breaks my heart ... .for you and me both.

I don't want to be involved with mine anymore ... .I also don't want to be in pain anymore ... I wish, god how I wish, I had never, ever met him. I didn't want to know that there were people like him in the world - both the wonderfully good aspects of him and the utterly evil parts ... I could have done without experiencing either.