Justice and retribution

[love4meNOTu]

I do believe that anyone who has been abused can recover.

I'm not there yet. I recently entered the "anger" stage of my recovery, and it has been helpful, but is so foreign of an emotion to me that it's a real challenge.

I'm not going to go into my revenge fantasies, because they are ridiculous... .but... .

I do not understand WHY things seem to be going so well for him, (engaged to soon to be wife #4, new job, new home), while I sit here struggling every single day to get through this pain and come out the other side.

This is not healthy, I'm sure...

but can some of you tell me what happened to your pwBPD's after you left?

Can you tell me that how they hurt people came back to haunt them?

Can you tell me that this disorder affects them for the rest of their life?

Can you tell me that this is NOT ME - that this is HIM... .and here is the evidence?

Where is the justice. Where is it.

[Learning_curve74]

I'm sorry you're feeling so angry right now, love4meNOTu. I'm not sure if I've passed that stage myself or if it's coming. I wish I was angrier though.

Anyhow, things seem like they're going well for him because he's running from the pain of messing everything up with you and needing to be soothed by the new woman. If he never works on his feelings, disordered thoughts, and dysfunctional coping strategies, there is little likelihood that he'll change a pattern of behavior that "works" for him. However, it only really works like a temporary bandaid which will never heal the true wound.

I just replied to a person on the introductions board who seems to have BPD. She is almost 60 but is depressed, unhappy, self-loathing, and lacking a feeling of self-worth and value. One telling remark she made was along the lines of she always got what she wanted but never got what she needed. Here is the link to her story. That doesn't sound much like the "happily ever after" you are worried your ex has gotten.

The rebound relationship is a common way for people to short circuit the healing process and mask the hurt after a failed relationship. Some pwBPD favor this type of dysfunctional coping strategy. But their inner wound is always there and will keep them in the cycle of pain if they do not address their issues. Same as if we do not address our issues.

The belief that you can recover is something to hang onto. You'll get through this. Hang in there. 

[Pearl55]

Unfortunately, it won't be any justice. Every individual who lives with psychosis hasn't got nomal feeling and emotions. They don't get hurt like us. They see everybody as objects. You should be greatful that you've done and won't waste the rest of your life. Feel sorry for his wife if she is not a borderline herslf because so many times they match to another one!

[love4meNOTu]

Ok, so I understand that they are mentally disordered.

Has anyone ever seen the long term affects it has on their lives?

Am I completely mental for asking this question... .ugh

Why is he able to draw someone in to his ugly world so quickly... get engaged not even two months after our divorce... less than six months since we've been apart... .why is this possible.

[bouchon226]

Yes I have seen the long term effects.  Unfulfilling romantic relationships, depression, destroyed friendships, always chasing the green grass, feeling empty and abandoned deep down.  Please don't let the outward appearance that everything is fine fool you.  He and the new wife will be miserable together, that is, unless she is also emotionally unstable and then he may have met his match for life…  Misery loves company.

[fromheeltoheal]

Ok, so I understand that they are mentally disordered.

Has anyone ever seen the long term affects it has on their lives?

Am I completely mental for asking this question... .ugh

Why is he able to draw someone in to his ugly world so quickly... get engaged not even two months after our divorce... less than six months since we've been apart... .why is this possible.

I was together with my borderline ex the first time 25 years ago, when she was young and cute.  She found me on Facebook a couple of years ago, and off we went for round two; she looks young for her age and is still cute, but there's a permanent hurt etched on her face now.  She's got 6 kids, because kids are humans who will always love her, although she did find out they will leave her.  She bounces from relationship to relationship, she told me she's been with 60 men, although it was probably double that because she's a pathological liar.  You might be thinking why did I sign up for that?  Please don't.

Anyway, she goes crazy when she's alone, in fact she was writing a book called July, which was the month each year that her youngest kids went to stay with their father, leaving her alone, so she went off the deep end, sex, drugs and rock n roll.  She's had more than one therapist tell her she needs to be by herself for an extended period of time, which is advice she never heeds.

So bottom line: she never takes the time to process or mourn the end of a relationship, and jumps into the next one to soothe the last one, just a distraction really as the emotions of the previous one are repressed.  Her rageful outbursts are random and unpredictable, but I pressed her on a few of them, and the gist was the unprocessed and repressed emotions from a previous relationship would bubble up randomly during quiet times, she had no idea how to deal and they were too strong, so her head would explode.  Happiness and contentment were short-lived breathers between emotional upheavals, regardless of what it looks like from the outside, regardless of the facade.  And a byproduct is she is capable of setting long term goals, but completely incapable of reaching them because the chaos is all-encompassing; she's started many careers but never stayed with them, so she's currently unemployed without marketable skillsets, living off child support and occasional prostitution.

A living hell.  Better her than me, but what we had was an undeniably loaded bond between us, me as complicit as her, and digging into that has been job one since the split.

[Ironmanrises]

There is no justice. My exUBPDgf left me twice. She initiated the relationship in round 1, and then discarded me. Not one of her friends/family reached out to me in NC period to ask what happened. An injustice. Not one of her friends/family questioned her on what happened. An injustice. She comes storming back into my life after 3 months NC, telling me "I want MY man back.", and discards me 5 months later(latter 3 months were devaluation/silent treatment). An injustice. Not one of her friends/family members in 5months NC to date, not one has reached out to me. An injustice. During the devaluation period in round 2, not one of those friends/family questioned her as she portrayed "personal development"  and reading that f¥cking book "The Secret" about attracting positive energy/people instead of negative while devaluing/destroying me concurrently in the process. An injustice. I was that positive person in her life who KNEW exactly how she really was(illness and all) and did not run away, and yet she banishes me. An injustice. She introduces me into the lives of her 2 sons, they begin to bond to me and vice versa, and then promptly rips that bond apart. An injustice. She has not returned any of my expensive cloths/shoes/cologne i left in her house. An injustice.

I have a mental illness too, called Major Depression. It isnt like her BPD. I have been held accountable for the consequences of my illness, 2 suicide attempts which landed me in 2 psych wards(7 days first time, 30 days 2nd time). I had to go through therapy, meds, apologize to my parents for putting them through hell. I still am held accountable years later(i live with my parents and cannot lock the door to my room because i tried to kill myself in my room), a consequence of my actions. My exUBPDgf is not held accountable for any of her actions and the subsequent consequences of said actions. She should be in a psych ward like i was. She should be in therapy like i had to go through. She should apologize to me and whoever else she hurt like i have with my parents. But no. No accountability. All of it, an injustice. Apologies for my rambling. 

[Lucky Jim]

Hi love4me, Try to consider, just for a moment, that everything is working out exactly the way it is supposed to.  You are out of an unhealthy marriage to a pwBPD, which is something to celebrate.  That your Ex may be jumping headlong into another drama is his problem, not yours.  It's painful, I know, but over the long haul you're going to be much happier.  Hang in there, Lucky Jim

[Waifed]

I'm sorry you're feeling so angry right now, love4meNOTu. I'm not sure if I've passed that stage myself or if it's coming. I wish I was angrier though.

Anyhow, things seem like they're going well for him because he's running from the pain of messing everything up with you and needing to be soothed by the new woman. If he never works on his feelings, disordered thoughts, and dysfunctional coping strategies, there is little likelihood that he'll change a pattern of behavior that "works" for him. However, it only really works like a temporary bandaid which will never heal the true wound.

I just replied to a person on the introductions board who seems to have BPD. She is almost 60 but is depressed, unhappy, self-loathing, and lacking a feeling of self-worth and value. One telling remark she made was along the lines of she always got what she wanted but never got what she needed. Here is the link to her story. That doesn't sound much like the "happily ever after" you are worried your ex has gotten.

The rebound relationship is a common way for people to short circuit the healing process and mask the hurt after a failed relationship. Some pwBPD favor this type of dysfunctional coping strategy. But their inner wound is always there and will keep them in the cycle of pain if they do not address their issues. Same as if we do not address our issues.

The belief that you can recover is something to hang onto. You'll get through this. Hang in there.  

Thanks for sharing this.  It is amazing that this woman describes all of her issues almost like a BPD article.  It makes you feel sorry for pwBPD.  

There is no justice for us right now.  I do feel that over time we will understand that our justice is the fact that we do not have to live our lives like a pwBPD.  That is justice enough for me.

[ScotisGone74]

I will second LuckyJim and Waifed... .there isn't direct justice for all the BS, lies, manipulation, and purposeful hurt that exBPD's have caused.   Indirectly there is justice though... .justice in that you don't have to put up with years of torment, lying, screwing other people behind your back, rages, tantrums, gaslighting, spending sprees, drug use, nuttiness, arguments, screwing up your children, etc, etc.   

The hurt you feel now will serve as a warning sign for you down the road. 

[Turkish]

I do believe that anyone who has been abused can recover.

I'm not there yet. I recently entered the "anger" stage of my recovery, and it has been helpful, but is so foreign of an emotion to me that it's a real challenge.

I'm not going to go into my revenge fantasies, because they are ridiculous... .but... .

I do not understand WHY things seem to be going so well for him, (engaged to soon to be wife #4, new job, new home), while I sit here struggling every single day to get through this pain and come out the other side.

This is not healthy, I'm sure...

but can some of you tell me what happened to your pwBPD's after you left?

Can you tell me that how they hurt people came back to haunt them?

Can you tell me that this disorder affects them for the rest of their life?

Can you tell me that this is NOT ME - that this is HIM... .and here is the evidence?

Where is the justice. Where is it.

Hi love4meNOTu,

Often times there is no justice for us, the betrayed. A good friend of mine went through this 15 years ago (abusive wife, cheating on him blatantly, etc... .). I talked to him last night and he offered again that for us, the victims of betrayal (and/or abuse, which is also a form of betrayal), there is no closure from the outside, and nothing we think of as "justice." He was able to move past it, but it took literally a few years. However hard and however long it takes, we need to find it within ourselves. Posting here is part of it, to vent and share. Therapy, supportive friends and family, and lastly time are also parts of it. I see your hurt, and share something similar. We look for "evidence" of what went wrong, but the evidence plays out in their lives: a pattern of unstable relationships with lovers, family, and even friends. A man who's on his 4th wife telegraphs something dysfunctional for the world to see. Those that see, see, and those that don't, don't. His hurting of others comes from the hurt place within himself. We might not see it come back, so to speak, but they live with it every day. That's the hell within, and the hell they cause others. Some realize it, while others don't. Anyone close to them can trigger the pain within them. If it wasn't you or me, it will be someone else, as it was someone else before us.

[love4meNOTu]

Oh man you guys... what would I do without you...

I have been, well, "angry" for four whole days now. Boy is it uncomfortable.

The pain I am feeling, I get so frustrated wondering when it will go away, BUT that being said... .I know the worst thing I can do is get into another relationship like my husband has.

A new relationship would be the novacaine to the emotional root canal I'm having right now.

When I met my husband I was at a good place in my life. I was lonely, but I was happy. I wasn't scared like I am now. Everyone says that they marry at their own level, or that he served my core needs in some way, but at the time I was just blissfully enjoying life. Ignoring red flags, having him move in, helping him pay his bills, loving him.

Damn blind idiot.

To say that I want him to hurt as I hurt? Well, that would not be an understatement.

[ScotisGone74]

For me personally, I know that regardless of who she is with, regardless of whatever new house/car/clothes she buys, regardless of any Facebook BS she posts, regardless of what she tells a past coworker/friend of ours, regardless of whatever... .she will be unhappy, unsatisfied, and trying to escape from herself and the pain she has caused others.    Is that justice?    not really, but without a judge and jury it will have to do.  

[bouchon226]

Totally agree Scotis,  This is along the lines of my reply.  He's putting on a front with his new engagement, and I'm sure he's telling FB how happy he is. I think 90% of what people post on fb is bs in general, especially those with mental issues who try to make it seem like it was the partner that was the issue.  I feel out of the norm here sometimes, as I'm not sad and I don't need justice, I just want to be happy and have a stable home again - this healing and moving on is all about me, nothing about him, I don't care to concern myself with what he chooses to do in his miserable future.

For me personally, I know that regardless of who she is with, regardless of whatever new house/car/clothes she buys, regardless of any Facebook BS she posts, regardless of what she tells a past coworker/friend of ours, regardless of whatever... .she will be unhappy, unsatisfied, and trying to escape from herself and the pain she has caused others.    Is that justice?    not really, but without a judge and jury it will have to do.  

[love4meNOTu]

bouchon - I want to feel as you do.

In the meantime - my therapist says I'm stuck in the idealization phase with my husband... sorry, EX husband. That I only want to remember when he was sweet and normal. Well, sort of normal, really intensely out there...

But I keep reminding myself... .it was not REAL.

Here is a guide to the REAL thing.

In order to recognize true love, you have to have a sense of what love looks like: you must learn to see through your spiritual eyes. Soul connection is tangible; there really is no guessing or wondering when the real thing comes along. There is usually a telltale sign that lets you know when true love has arrived--a deep sense of knowing, a “gut feeling," or even a still, small voice in your head that says this is someone special to you. 

[bouchon226]

Love4Me,

The stage you are going through is definitely normal… I have those moments too from time to time.  And farther into this process, I may play out more emotions and get stuck in a certain phase of healing.  When my H was nice, he could be the best husband but no way could those positive traits ever outweigh the h*ll I experienced in my house (and in the car and on trips and in restaurants and on planes, etc etc etc ). 

It is awful to think what we (spouses) experienced, when it was good, was not real.  Actually, the moment was real but the overall picture was a cluster of mixed behaviors and emotions - so much so that we have been left to unclutter our own minds!  I do not think BPD are capable of knowing what true love is, I think dealing with this forever would be like trying to swim against a rip current…...

[winston72]

Hey Love4meNOTu... .thanks for your post.

Betrayals are unjust, and being treated unjustly is wrong and it hurts us.  It leads to anger, and a righteous anger at that!  And this anger is justified and normal and appropriate as it helps us to reset our boundaries.

And, I wish this was the process for me.  It wasn't.  If I reacted in such a way then I would not have been sucked into the madness of my relationship.  I got the hurt part, but the righteous anger did not show up!  I wish it did.  I am very uncomfortable with my anger also.  I have come to learn that I think it is not appropriate, it makes me uncomfortable and I avoid it.  It is wrong thinking on my part driven by some ill formed parts of my inner self.  Ugh. 

You should be angry at him.  It is okay to not wish him well.  Of course we need to manage how this anger expresses itself so it is not inappropriate, but I suspect you, as I do, have more of a problem with not acknowledging it rather than allowing it to do crazy things.  Dare I say that we wish blessings upon our friends, but a pox on our enemies?  I am uncomfortable with this even as I type it.  I deny my own emotions in this regard and it is not healthy.  It has led me to ineffective internal warning systems about who is good for me and who is bad... .and I don't like to call people bad!  Oh, my I am learning about myself as I type!

And, as others have already stated so elegantly, this man's life will likely be a continuation of what it already is... .and four marriages and a broken union with you is a pattern of unstable relationships... .and that will continue.  How could it not?  He is the same person.

Idealizing? I am doing the same thing... .and doing it in the face of some outrageous behavior.  I think the maintenance of that unrealistic fantasy about the other person is tied to the inability to experience the full scope of the anger.  It is the emotion that would activate the negative aspects of that person.  Not doing so leaves us with a partial emotional experience of the other. 

I feel the need to be benevolent, to be bigger than it all... .and that is just not true or healthy. I am human.  I am limited.  She cheated on me and hurt me.  I hate it.  I hate her (oh, I don't like to type that!).  I won't lash out.  God will be her judge.  But I am hurt and I wish her to hurt as I do. 

Typing as therapy... .who would have thunk!

[Pearl55]

A three year old sees his/her world in a black or white sort of way. They think that you either love them or hate them, based on your facial expressions, tone of voice and behaviors. As they haven't yet developed the capacity for mood regulation, they'll react to the slightest frustration or disappointment, by hating you! As soon as their immediate upset passes, they revert to loving you again. this love you/hate you called 'splitting.'

So when they love us, is NOT about us and when they hate us is NOT about us neither.

[Turkish]

A three year old sees his/her world in a black or white sort of way. They think that you either love them or hate them, based on your facial expressions, tone of voice and behaviors. As they haven't yet developed the capacity for mood regulation, they'll react to the slightest frustration or disappointment, by hating you! As soon as their immediate upset passes, they revert to loving you again. this love you/hate you called 'splitting.'

So when they love us, is NOT about us and when they hate us is NOT about us neither.

Yep, I've compared mine to our S3... .I said it to her when she was sad when he said, "I don't love you... ." I told her she was like him, in that he painted us black when we weren't meeting his needs. Of course, two hours later, "I love you!" S3's tantrums are similar.

D1's tantrums are less (I think she gets more of her personality from me). I can hold and calm her pretty quickly when she acts up (like me not getting her candy in the store yesterday). Interestingly... .my X used to tell me that when she was angry, she sometimes wanted me to hold her and tell her it was ok. The comforting arms of a father (sounds sick, but that was our dynamic, as it probably was or is for a lot of us) were what she needed to feel safe. Frustrating!

[fromheeltoheal]

I have been, well, "angry" for four whole days now. Boy is it uncomfortable.

The pain I am feeling, I get so frustrated wondering when it will go away, BUT that being said... .I know the worst thing I can do is get into another relationship like my husband has.

And the best thing you can do is use that energy.  Anger is a phase, one full of energy, that you can use positively or negatively.  One thing that has helped me is to focus on the future of my dreams, obviously a future without her in it, and then get to work building it; anger is handy fuel for that.  I got into a relationship with my borderline ex in the first place because I wasn't in a good place and was susceptible, wanted a 'savior', which she was until the crazy showed up.  So using that anger to get back in shape, transform my house into a home, motivate myself to meet the types of people I want in my life, has been what I consider healthy.  And the anger is waning, I'm entering acceptance, hardly think of her at all, and all the work I did when I was pissed off is helping me now and I'm proud of it.  Use it.

Damn blind idiot.

Yep, there's an identity I can relate to, one fueled by that anger.  Going into a relationship open-hearted isn't a bad thing BTW, we just get to leave the naivety at home; a small percentage of the population is mentally ill, and a little caution will serve us.

Take care of you!

[apple]

I can tell you that they do in-fact continue their sad patterns. Mine was re-married 4 months after the divorce and 6 months after filing. It was her 4th marriage by 36 and it lasted like 45 days  

Just recently she had been bringing a "friend" around my kids because she has been diagnosed with a medical condition and needs help. ... .Decoder ring says = Im playing the waif!     Anyways, my son was acting up really bad and I found out about her "friend" being over at the house all the time. I more or less told her it was part of the problem with our sons behavior and so I got the whole spiel and how "she was so grateful to have her friends in her life" Whats really sad is that she doesn't even realize she has no long term close friends. It's really obvious that she uses people once you see the pattern.

After getting out of the fog, I realized that her parents have so many issues as well. Her father didn't talk to or have a relationship with both his brother and sister for years. Whenever people call them out on their bullhit they just blame.  The dysfunction is there also and they just enable their daughter. 

Fast forward a 2 weeks and my s7 tells me "BTW mom is no longer friends with so&so and that she said he was crazy"  This is the same guy she was so grateful to have in her life 2 weeks prior.

So no, they don't change one iota. It's just sad and hurts when you have kids and have to watch them suffer and be so confused.