Do they CAUSE insanity?

[amja77]

Just a question: do you think that having been in a serious relationship with a pwBPD can actually CAUSE you to become ill?

I'm asking this because I feel like I've actually used some of my "about to be" exBPDbf's tactics and manipulative ways on him! I feel I have resorted to acting this way due to self-preservation. I feel that we all come to a point where the abuse and erratic behavior becomes so overwhelming that in order to keep OUR sanity, we must use the same actions that they use against THEM.

I don't know if this is making sense... .so I'll give a personal example:

I had made an ultimatum with my BPDbf and stated to him that if he did not go into treatment, I would not be able to continue with our relationship (side note: he was formally dx'd with BPD. He is currently on Disability because of it. He is also an alcoholic. But, surprisingly, he is still attractive... .but I digress).

So, as he was leaving he said, "well, maybe we should break up then. I'm f***ed up." He then left.

I didn't speak to him for 2 days. On the 3rd day, he called me. He was  He preceded to say that he had been cheating on me. (side note: he had said this to me plenty of times. Then, sometimes, he said he was cheating and then deny it by saying "I should know him by now." My initial reaction, in the beginning, was to cry, ask why he would do that, I was hurt, etc. When this happened, he would actually say "I don't care how you feel... ." etc. ) So, back to the story... .after he said this to me on the phone, I then stated, "Oh, you've been cheating? That's OK. I've cheated on you too. No worries." (This was a lie, obviously) This set him off! He was not expecting this reaction. So he asked who it was with, that I didn't have the guts to do it, blah blah blah.

Another instance was when I had a nervous breakdown in front of him (which was a complete sign of weakness, on my part. Not a good thing to break down in front of a pwBPD). I just began to cry, started shaking... .this was all caused by my frustration with his silent treatment, his verbal abuse and all of the other countless actions he did. He then proceeded to say to me, "Look at you. Why are you crying? You're so stupid... .You're crazy. You need help." Mind you, I have never had a breakdown like this before in my life. I feel like by having been with him, I slowly began to go crazy myself!

I know I'm rambling, but if anyone understands, please post.

[damage control]

If you are acting,doing, thinking, behaving in ways that are different ot how you have in other relationships - and your own and his behaviour seem crazy and toxic to you ... then there is nothing wrong with you - it's him.

It's hard not get dragged into the crazy ... .and being manipulated, lied to and abused will make us behave in ways that make us doubt our own sanity ...

Short answer: the very fact that you are here asking this question means that you are not crazy - to the crazymakers - their behaviour seems perfectly reasonable/acceptable ... that's the difference between you and him.

[wishfulthinking]

I have changed a LOT being in this relationship.  I don't joke or play as much, don't feel I can be silly.  I have found that I yell back at times (working on this) when I never did in the past.  I have said very mean things when pushed to my limit (didn't do this before, either... .maybe a form of trying to push him away because he is hurting me emotionally so badly?)  I feel like I have to play detective and question everything because I've fallen for manipulation in the past.  These things are not me AT ALL.

[damage control]

Amja ... if you were walking down the street and somebody attacked you, you would try to attack back, to defend yourself right?

Would you, out of nowhere and without provocation attack somebody? No. The other person's behaviour levers you into doing things that you wouldn't normally do ... but it's temporary and in reaction to the distorted input you are getting.

We don't 'catch' crazy behaviour but, when we are mired in it, our usual way/s of acting responding don't work and so, we protect ourselves by changing/adapting ... it's temporary for us ...

[Perfidy]

A relationship is like a windfall ... .It will either bring out the best in you or the worst. It will make a good person better, a bad person worse. It is an opportunity to experience heaven or hell. It cannot remain static. The nature of life is dynamic.

[sirensong65]

I can completely understand where you are coming from because I am there.

This has been an absolute mind f_ _ k.  I was a  strong, independent, happy person who had here life together when we met.  I thought I had found the icing on the cake.  Things went fast but wonderful.  He seamlessly fit in my life.  We started living together and it just went fabulous... I thought I had found the one. So loving and affectionate, we were best friends.

Four months in he starts to get depressed.  Sexual dysfunction sets in.  I encourage getting checked, started supplements, watched his diet, babied him more.  He said he had battled depression before, so I encouraged we get him treated and I would stand beside him through this.

The story is way too long but the bottom line is I thought WE were fine, and he had a battle that I needed to stand strong beside and fight with him.  

Two months before the split, he moves out.  Then he gets distant, then he makes statements like, "You love me deeper than I love you... "  Then I hear, "I love you but I am not IN love with you."  Then he just drops off the planet for days, starts doing things without me more and then says he will just keep hurting me if he stays, he needs to go be alone.

Then I hear he was seeing someone before he split and he is taking her to his company Christmas party.  He is posting happy holiday stuff on his facebook and I have sunk into a deep depression and cant manage to work or keep up my house (SO, unlike the me I used to be.

In the end he said he could not be himself with me, that we could or would NEVER go back to the way things were in the beginning, and we were not compatible.  Hard to comprehend when we hardly exchanged a terse word.

I am so depressed I can't eat, sleep or function on any decent level.  I cry out of no where.

I never loved someone so completely.  I loved him for him.  Unconditionally.  It seemed the more I proved that, the more he moved away from it.

I now feel crazy.  I feel stupid.  I feel broken.  And I feel defeated.  48 and thought I had found the one I would grow old with.  My happiest place was being held by him.  We held hands when we fell asleep at night.  His smile was my light.

Where I am is a painful insanity.  As though he died and a part of me died with him.

[myself]

Trying to find and keep a balance, when things are so imbalanced, can lead to overcompensating and changing our regular routines. This can affect our dreams, our view of who who are, and our day to day, moment to moment actions and perspectives. We take in the good and the bad and the in between, and while caught up in such 'crazy' situations, we can lose our grip on things (which I agree is often only temporary). We've all done things we wouldn't ordinarily do, in these BPD/traits relationships. Are they just passing through, or settling in, these patterns? Look within. Find the best ways to heal yourself and do everything you can to do so. That would be the least crazy option.

[damage control]

SrenSong

Yours sounds like mine ... we never lived together - he cannot bear the thought of living with a woman ... but the best friends, never fighting, thinking you have found someone special.

The depression? Mine wasn't diagnosed clinically but he consistently claims that he is unhappy ... he has massive panic attacks all the time (he is on a large dose of Xanax every day and has been for about 15 years) ... he always looked and seemed OK ... still does ... so, I don't know if the 'depression/sadness' is a tool to use for sympathy and to prevent the person he is involved with from asking too much of him emotionally and to garner sympathy/manipulate or if it is real ... I honestly don't know.

But ... the sexual withdrawal ... yes ... I too have been there - and it cuts to the core. Especially when you are replaced and you have to ask yourself why/how you could be replaced if there is sexual dysfunction? ... .

Shattered, living in disbelief, unable to stop thinking about why/how/when ... .it's debilitating.

[Pretty Woman]

Siren,

   

Keep posting here and reading up all you can. It will get better. I am not out of the fog by far but slowly starting to function again.

We'll all get through this together.

[sirensong65]

Oh, I am reading up on this.  That is the pathetic part of it all.  He's gone, we are done, and I AM the one immersing myself in all the info which I THOUGHT would make the break up less painful... not happening and I feel obsessed.

I get the sexual dysfunction... sickens me but I get it.  He got a HIGH off the sex when it was new, the first 60 days for the  are heady.  Then, later, when I am feeling secure and stable, starting to feel comfortable because we are slipping into a steady and what I THOUGHT was a secure relationship, he starts to panic or get bored.  Frankly, and I know I have been drinking but this pisses me off.  Damn it; how freaking crazy is THAT?  We had NO ISSUES.  I provided a loving, secure, stable home where his partner was his best friend.  I looked after him, treated him like gold because I adored this guy.

What the hell?  I keep moving from sadness to just plain pissed off. We had a relationship that others saw and envied.  I work hard, I'm a good mom, independent, loving and affectionate, attractive, good company, good cook.  We had a like of blessings and he pisses it all away.  I'M MAD!

[Ironmanrises]

Yes. I have actually "cut off" one of my few close friends today in a way that comes across as BPD-like but based on behavior that after much pondering, I should have not been putting up with. I have few friends and closing off this friendship was not easy but I had to do it in the aftermath of dealing with my nightmare of having been with my exUBPDgf. I see the behavior all around me. Saddens me.

[amja77]

Every one of your posts are so amazing to me... .I'm not alone.

The most painful thing is watching yourself change for the worst in many ways. Ever since I had gotten back with him, I've been more isolated from my family and friends. My motivation has dwindled. I used to be such a determined person. I never wanted to sit all day at home. I always wanted to be productive, better myself and my career, etc.

But, now, I feel like I'm damaged, in a way.

This relationship has made me go insane and I know for a fact that I'm going to look back on this and want to punch myself in the face. It was a waste of time, energy, and "love."

I used to say I would never stoop to his level. But he has, in a way, forced me to become like him in some ways... .when dealing with him. I say this because how else am I supposed to react to his behavior if he's mentally ill? Nothing will ever make sense to him, even if I'm starting to do the same things HE does!

I'm full of resentment in some ways, which is a poisonous feeling to have. All it does is eat you alive.

[fromheeltoheal]

It is common for partners of borderlines to start exhibiting BPD traits in the relationship, in fact that happens in all relationships with people we're intimate with on any level, we start adopting each other's traits as we meet in the middle ground that is the relationship.  And the traits we attribute to borderline personality disorder are not absolute but on a continuum, and most people exhibit traits that could be considered to meet the criteria some of the time.  A diagnosis of the disorder requires several traits to be presented over a period of time; one-offs don't count.

So.  We were in relationships with people who have a serious mental illness, sobering and What the heck I realize, but nonetheless when we were caught up in it, it makes perfect sense that we started thinking and acting mentally ill too.  Lovely.  But also a glorious wake-up call as we detach and get our feet on the ground, and some things I'm gonna keep; her lack of ability to soothe her emotions resulted in frequent outbursts at people, which ain't a bad thing for a passive guy like me to adopt.  Inappropriate anger is, well, inappropriate, but sometimes getting angry when appropriate is the best course, a resentment will be the result if I don't, he said with experience.  So thanks sweetheart, I'll keep that one, but you can definitely keep the lying, mood swings, manipulation and suicidal ideation.

[santa]

Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster.

[careman]

Amja !

Been where you are, and it's hard. Really hard.

BPD traits rubs off, but it is temporary. You'll revert to the who you were before. Give yourself time.

Check this, helped me alot: 

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=187665.0;topicseen

/Careman

[GreenMango]

Yes. I have actually "cut off" one of my few close friends today in a way that comes across as BPD-like but based on behavior that after much pondering, I should have not been putting up with. I have few friends and closing off this friendship was not easy but I had to do it in the aftermath of dealing with my nightmare of having been with my exUBPDgf. I see the behavior all around me. Saddens me.

Hi Amja77

A relationship with someone who has BPD or BPD traits can be arduous.  The interpersonal and relationship conflicts can quickly become exacerbated trying to maintain the relationship.  Members from the staying board who are committed to staying usually have to tune up and bring their A game to the table when they are trying to strike a healthier balance. 

Ironman brought up a good point above about noticing that there was another relationship where the patterns were unhealthy for him.  This is isn't uncommon... .most of us here have or had some weaknesses - emotional immaturity, codependency, commitment, or abandonment issues - hence trying to stay to work on something that might not have been the healthiest for us instead of letting go etc.

The catch is sometimes even working on your end, being a healthy partner, and utilizing the BPD skill set doesn't guaranty that relationship will endure or become a healthy one.  You can only do 100% of your 50% of the relationship.  Giving more, falling into the 'dysfunctional dance', and feeling like the carpet was pulled out from underneath your feet by the relationship isn't uncommon.

So, if you had a little bit of codependent traits before this a partner with BPD is very likely going to have you jumping to caretake.  If you felt worried about being alone before this that push pull emotional yo-yo and the gamey testing your attachment incidents are going to hit on every abandonment and self worth fears tenfold.  If you had soft boundaries before this relationship you'll probably have found yourself having very little boundaries due to the constant need to police yours or having them run rough shod over if you have a partner with BPD.

Dysfunctional relationships can be heartbreaking and can have someone chasing their own tail. They can be like taking sand paper to scar tissue eventually you are going to hit a nerve and find that vulnerable spot.  These are hard lesson relationships - when they go bad they can go real bad - and show you where you might need to look.

Once the pain subsides a little - try to find the lesson in it because I don't know about you but I don't plan on repeating this once was enough.  In the meantime, be kind to yourself I'm guessing you poured a lot into him maybe more than he deserved.  You deserve some of that kindness and let yourself grieve because you cared about the person and its going to take time to feel differently, as it should you aren't a robot with an on off switch.

[amja77]

All of your comments are incredibly thought-provoking and helps me put things into perspective.

It's just sad that an unhealthy person can change who we are... .or, we ALLOW them to.

Is it sad that I hope he hits rock bottom and hates himself even more because of what he's put me through?

When I'm angry, my thoughts can be really selfish and devious. However, when I'm sad, I'm full of self-hatred and hopelessness. I can sense that, because of these reactions I'm having, I have some major insecurity and abandonment issues. But, the funny thing is, I never knew of this UNTIL I met him.

Sometimes I wish I just never met him.

[DragoN]

Amja ... if you were walking down the street and somebody attacked you, you would try to attack back, to defend yourself right?

Would you, out of nowhere and without provocation attack somebody? No. The other person's behaviour levers you into doing things that you wouldn't normally do ... but it's temporary and in reaction to the distorted input you are getting.

We don't 'catch' crazy behaviour but, when we are mired in it, our usual way/s of acting responding don't work and so, we protect ourselves by changing/adapting ... it's temporary for us ...

Agree with this and the insanity factor of dealing with BPD long term. It has been shown to change your brain chemistry. Abuse is not a small item in the BPD arsenal and it's effects can be very traumatic.

[willtimeheal]

Amja

You are not alone. During my relationship I turned into a person I didn't recognize. I became a shell of the person I used to be. I used to be happy out going and I trusted people. That changed after my BPD. I am not the same. I am in therapy and I have learned to like myself but there are days... .like today... .That I fall backwards. The fact you are questioning if you are crazy proves you are not. We can see the changes in our behavior and recognize our feelings. We are also not afraid to ask for help and to work on ourselves. That is what makes us different and rational. The biggest eye opener for me was after my BPD and I broke up the first time. I started spending time with friends.again and trying to get into life again. My friends were great... .we were laughing and they said welcome back, we have missed you.  In that moment  I knew who I was and am. I am not crazy. And either are you. They damaged  US and knocked us down but we will get up and keep on going. Hang in there

[ScotisGone74]

I believe they certainly can make us feel that we really are.    When you are constantly around someone 24/7 that can not be alone for five seconds, who constantly lies, manipulates, gaslights, goes out of their way to try to make you jealous, someone who has to get an idea of who they are from OTHER people... .yes, that is enough to make a normal person go bonkers.     

Eventually once you are away/removed from that situation you begin to see things more objectively, without Love binders on,  at some point you Revert back to your old self.   For me that is a much more care free person, nice, easy going, happy, caring about others and those less fortunate, more trusting, enjoying more relax time, read, workout, do things I enjoy.     With enough time, reflection, self awareness you will get your old self back again, it doesn't happen overnight though, it can be a tough ride, hang in there.