Can I believe him?

[amja77]

loz, all I can say is, be extremely cautious.

My current BPDbf did the same exact thing to me. I let him back in. Believed his promises, his apologies, his confessions, and his praises of me... .that I was right the whole time, I didn't deserve the abuse I endured, I was better off without him, blah blah blah.

But, a month later, after I let him back into my life again (after not communicating with him for 3 years - which were happy years, by the way) his demons and true nature resurfaced slowly but surely. It actually became worse!

I think the fact that we take them back makes us look weak to them, which enables even more abuse because they know that we will always give them a second chance... .they just have to say the right things.

But my mother would always tell me, if he truly loved and wanted to be with you, he'd let you go for your own sake and he would take a few years to get intense help. After being committed to treatment and being truly honest with himself, then, and only then, should you believe any other promise he makes.

I think sometimes we don't think rationally when it comes to them... .it's always our hearts and feelings that lead the way... .we rarely bring our brain into the equation, which is our biggest downfall.

[loz1982]

Amja that is exactly what I'm afraid of that they are just words I asked him if he wants the number for my psychologist it will give much more faith if he starts getting help now while I'm still away but he said no time got a lot of stuff going on at the moment. If it was me even if I thought I didn't need help I would be making appointments! Are you still with him? So it was good for month then he changed back? My mum agrees with your mum! I believes he wants to be heartandwhole but worry he isn't capable of changing on his own! He know I am vulnerable and yes I think he plays on that! Mine at one stage said I also was the toxic one Earth Angel, such a devastating disorder!

[goldylamont]

Amja that is exactly what I'm afraid of that they are just words I asked him if he wants the number for my psychologist it will give much more faith if he starts getting help now while I'm still away but he said no time got a lot of stuff going on at the moment.

that's an excuse, obviously. i would reply to him (if you choose to reply at all) that you totally understand how busy he is. And for him to check back in with you when he's squared these things away and has made a therapy appointment. << set a simple boundary for yourself that you refuse to talk until you have *proof* that he's already in therapy--not that this is something that he simply wants to do.

I think the title of you post "Can I believe him?" points to a question that all of us have asked ourselves time and again--can we trust our ex? And my conclusion is no--I've had enough experience to know that she is untrustworthy. I think for you loz1982 you can use your experience from the past to reinforce that this person isn't to be trusted. You also have the option of bringing him back into your life, waiting for the abuse to happen and when it does then the depression/anger/anxieties that ensue will be there to tell you the truth that they are already trying to convey--that this person is not trustworthy.

[loz1982]

I decided not to reply goldylamont I think that gets to them more than a response. I find I am not strong enough to make that boundary known, contact me if you go into therapy, my mum said the same thing, I know it is what I should say. I know what my head is telling me but my heart still feels and by saying that I might never hear from him again. I can hear people saying that is good  but I know it would hurt.

Help should be something he wants to do, if I was him I would be doing everything possible to get him back, I never knew how important trust is in a relationship until now. He said how am I going to know I trust him if I don't go back and see, part of that is right but I thought getting help and fixing the relationship with my parents would be a start in that process. Sometimes I just feel like I'm being too hard on him.

[necchi]

Hi ! So all this said, what does this implies?

Being to hard on him ? Come on !

you are being in constant ccontradiction with yourself.

fix the relation YOU have with your parents, they will make you better, him, ? He has already started his push pull manipulative acts.

Of course it will hurt if you don't walk on "eggshells" with him.

Stay with us, keep your parents because in the end he will easily figure out a way to push them aside of your life gas lighting is a gift to them from satan himself ! Lol

[loz1982]

I do contradict myself hey I think because I know what is healthy for me and isn't i don't know why I fight it, I know I need to stick to my guns, I don't know why I'm making it worse for myself! I am too compassionate I think I'm what you see is what you get and can't begin to understand someone like this, maybe I never will hence no closure! Jekyll and Hyde describes them perfectly! I'm staying with my folks at the moment which is great for our relationship my ex thinks I'm choosing them over him, maybe I won't hear from him again them I won't need to be the strong one.  marinro7 do you still hear from her?

[necchi]

" marinro7 Do you still hear from her ? "

I do my best not to ,but  sometimes i want to. But since i have decided to stop sabotaging myself and working on my needs and issues. When i get these thoughts my mind keeps them at a place were it becomes easy for me to invalidate them and not womble into were they use to go,ei: i can fix her, she is my soulmate maybe i did this or that so she did this... .hard to put to words but this is happening because i came to realized she did not love me if so and so, i didn't know why i had feelings of love for someone who treated me like this... .so much crazymaking it disturbed my cognitive thinking, even my body this is true. And i came here and remember someone say to me " fell the pain, it will be there and you can't stop it, it is baby steps but you are going to be alright , so went with the pain, my guts hurted, i was obsessed with thoughts of us, her, my son(3),i cried all the time... .but i came back here, read and read again leaving no post than some to make a long story short i work on myself and decide to give my trust to people here and to myself.

the pain crying radically went down (though, remember some heal faster than other)

but i make it about me this is important ME. now is not a good time for me to see her .she did so much to hurt me,if you go trough my profile you can see my posts and get glimpse of my story. I did all this in little time, I was still a wreck last month. Now in great, sometime sad but i can chose if i stay or leave the moment, its not overwhelming were she would rent my mind constantly... i started imagining myself kissing, holding someone else and i'm great with it !

[necchi]

Should i mention, stoping using speed to numb the pain and relaxing on the booze  really made a difference.

[loz1982]

Happylogist you mentioned about control that they don't necessarily need therapy but be happy to give control to others, be happy to wait for my decision etc. In a way my ex has improved I mean he has said recently he will wait for as long as it takes, is happy not to text me if I need time so as not to influence my decision. I mean that is progress right yet I still hesitate, still want to see more in his actions! He even said he finds it hard as he is not in control of the situation!

marinro7 I take strength from your posts as you seem to be coming out the other side so I know it's possible!

[Aussie0zborn]

Los, it would seem you have a lot to learn about BPD. Try reading the articles here and read as many discussion topics as you can, you will soon see the pattern. Ask as many questions as you like and stick with us.

But firstly, memorise this quote:

"They love without measure those they will soon hate without reason".

That's always how it ends. If you think you're hurting now you will feel a whole lot more hurt later. I would strongly suggest you run as fast as you can.

[necchi]

Let us be your conscience los... .!

[loz1982]

I will marinro7 when I start to feel bad I'll get on here! Trouble is my ex has never been diagnosed I don't even know if he has BPD that's why I question his ability to change, what if he doesn't? I know despite if he has or he hasn't there are many red flags anyway! When he is good it is fantastic, for someone so complicated he loves the simple things in life I mean what guy wants to go grocery shopping or just walk around the shops, why does he have to ruin things by obsessing about things that aren't even a problem? So sad really I can handle a break up if someone cheats or doesn't want to be with me but not this!

[necchi]

why does he have to ruin things by obsessing about things that aren't even a problem?

This Is going to backfire at you! When he goes there, you reply in closure to soothe I'm. Remember this !... .Soon you will be asking for closure on something... ., even though he will see your distress, is response to this will be : why do YOU have to ruin EVERYTHING by obsessing about things that aren't even REAL?

Mark my words!     Been there, done that.

you know, i cant judge you at all, i did the same things and got further down the limb's, i became delusional ----------they bring you always closer to delirium.


Maybe he is not BPD he hasn't been diagnosed. Mine either, i was the one with BPD and she really think this. They have an ability ( its a curse for all I'm concern) to interpret and modify it. They are not quite aware of this. They do know something is wrong when it happens but like awakening from a dream,it slowly drifts away in little time were we go " ! Man!, i had this dream this morning don't really remember but it was intense!"  ... .Been there ?

that is all part off the splitting /DR.Jekill. Research suggests a similarity to Dissociative identity disorder (DID), also known as multiple personality disorder.

in their case, sufferers get to a point (usually in young age)they have no choice seeking or induced in treatment. In the case of borderline personality, the disorder  validate each and one of their behaviours and being able to change their thinking paterns,space and time,memories... .Yes they suffer, they know all this, but than again can modify it, than they are aware of it, but can gas light themselves and are aware of it, so they validate it by putting fault on one other an they feel guilt, so they modify the discussion they just had, they feel wrong, something wrong with me then split... .it goes on and on, all their lives, immense baggage of guilt intertwined in delusion... .They are poison and even though i felt, god know how much empathy for her, I'm no longer allowed down that part.  If i still yearn for her, love so much and desire her after all that happen, we can consider this disorder has one of the most serious.

I'm not a psychiatrist, so in no way i can tell you that from all you wrote, the behaviors, chain of events, things you mentioned that are pin point specific to pwBPD, my and all here experience, grieving,ptsd... .really couldn't

good luck though

[loz1982]

My ex did tell me that I think too much and he obsessed on things and now I am the one obsessed so yes he has turned it on me! So deep down they know there is something wrong with them but are able to deal with this by gas lighting painting you black etc. That's prob why they don't have any empathy, my ex really struggles with the concept of apologising justifying in his mind why he wasn't wrong, is this a trait of BPD? He says he will apologise to my parents but I can't help thinking he isn't capable. I'm apparently the love of his life doesn't want any other girl yet doing nothing about it. Do they even know what love is? I mean when I saw him last he was drinking more took up smoking again so clearly is broken hearted! Did you talk to your ex about BPD, how did you find out about it?

[necchi]

Read between lines, i like to be sarcastic... .

I'm not a psychiatrist, so in no way i can tell you that from all you wrote, the behaviors, chain of events, things you mentioned that are pin point specific to pwBPD, my and all here experience, grieving,ptsd... .really couldn't

yes i told her, referred to so many times, she will not acknowledge it. The few times she did was to get me back in the sanitarium.

He doesn't want any other girls... .

i hope it is true for you but keep an open mind and be aware of any disappointment that may occur. I don't wish you this.

mine to was all over me i occupied her head for 4 years before she would start all the nasty name calling, heavy smear campaigns. Before it was bad but not has intense. The biggest ordeal started 2 years ago when i addmited that i loved her, even though. She had abused me before, my kids... .before that we were really good friend in an unhealthy relation, the sex was wonderful ( always been

[goldylamont]

My ex did tell me that I think too much and he obsessed on things and now I am the one obsessed so yes he has turned it on me! So deep down they know there is something wrong with them but are able to deal with this by gas lighting painting you black etc. That's prob why they don't have any empathy, my ex really struggles with the concept of apologising justifying in his mind why he wasn't wrong, is this a trait of BPD?

gaslighting and never apologizing or taking responsibility for the horrible things they say and/or do? YES loz1982 these are traits of BPD--no one here can diagnose your bf, but ya know... .

He says he will apologise to my parents but I can't help thinking he isn't capable.

this to me would be the easiest thing to do. you can find the truth here. he brought up apologizing, so if you choose to communicate with him (and kind of sounds like you plan on responding to him), then set him up. be kind, praise him for his courage and kindness in wanting to apologize to your parents. then tell him he should do it and you can't wait to hear their response and that you support his efforts.

then, see what happens -- my guess is that he'll try and divert things and get you to commit to him before he does any apologizing. my guess is that he doesn't really care at all about apologizing to them and is only saying it b/c he's at a low point and knows this is what you want to hear (and it seems to be working on you, right?).

but all of this is moot--you can find out just by seeing if he apologizes. when/if he doesn't, then you know it's a ploy to reel you in and it's not sincere; and it sounds insincere to me.

right now you are confused. your gut instinct is telling you he is not sincere in his intentions yet another part of you wishes he is. but you have many opportunities to find out the truth without putting yourself in too much danger.

Game Recognize Game -- meaning you are aware of and prepared for any possible motive of his.

I'm apparently the love of his life doesn't want any other girl yet doing nothing about it.

Well... .I dunno. I will say this; I know that I had a significant impact on my ex's life and she on me. Our r/s was the longest/deepest one that either one of us had (and I suspect one of the more stable ones for her). And sounds like you had a big impact on him also. Unfortunately though when someone with a PD wants something from you then they will say anything to get it, including that you are "the love of his life". I'm not saying that he didn't have this emotion; sure he feels you are the love of his life as much as he hates you and thinks you are worthless. But that's the problem, they swing one way or the other so you can't put much stock in their words. My ex told me all kinds of crap about how much in love with me she was and how much she missed and wanted to be with me, only to switch up the next day and say she wanted to be single. Who really gives a dang how she felt in the moment, in reality, it was a bunch of crap  Is this the first time he's made claims like this? If not, has he ever backed them up with actions? Or is it just talk?

Him saying "you are the love of my life and I don't want any other girls" means "loz1982, I want you to tell me that I AM the love of YOUR life and that you don't want any other MEN. This will make me feel like i won't be abandoned by you. And then since I'll have regained my power from hearing this, now I can devalue and abuse you with it."

I'm hoping this stuff isn't too heavy. Just want you to see a likely possibility. Game Recognize Game -- since you've been through this before you are wiser now and keener to his bag of tricks. If you're not sure, it's OK, means you need to verify. But no need to jump back in and verify this way. Just see if he gives a sincere apology to your parents and let us know what happens. I wish you the best loz 

[eternalbloom]

I agree with the majority here. Their words have no meaning. There's a possibility that things could get worse. Each time I let my ex back he told me how I was the abuser. In fact he printed out the definition of emotional abuse and hit me square in the face with the paper. Awesome right? Everything I complained about he projected onto me. It was like arguing with a very violent and strong 4 year old. Enough to make me go crazy. My head hurts just thinking about the hell Ive been through.

[loz1982]

Yes Goldylamont he has already said he will apologise but I have to come back first. He should've apologised a year ago so I figure if he hasn't said it by now I'm holding my breath for nothing! If it was me I would be over to his parents in a shot, I feel I shouldn't be pushing him to apologise he is worried about the timing of it I said if it's sincere it doesn't matter when you say it. We can be together but will never be happy with this situation hanging over our heads, correction I won't be I'm sure my ex wouldn't care if he didn't see my parents again! Is it wrong to want my parents support in our relationship! Back in Aug he also said I was his soul mate and wrote a written apology to my parents after seeing me crying for a week but then took the email back a week later. He doesn't think before he acts I don't know if this is his personality or a trait of BPD. So no not many actions at all back up his words so have very limited faith in him anymore when he says things! Then to say I don't have time too see a professional really makes me doubt him. He needs to do that for himself but at the very least for me but as pattern in our relationship not for me either!

[necchi]

Nice to see you are beginning to see patterns here,... .wheel's in motion.

He doesn't think before he acts---yes they act impulsively without being considered of the fallout. Sad, the things she did and said... .all like a sword through my guts.

then if I would bring it up... .; it was all in my head, my little tales.

[loz1982]

Did you ever get an apology marinro7 I got a personal one recently after so long he seemed sincere but it doesn't take back the words that hurt so much sometimes I think emotional abuse is just as bad as physical. You can forgive but not forget

[necchi]

Apologies are still words,and coming from her its worthless

and indeed this what happened.

life

[loz1982]

My ex text mea couple of weeks ago with pictures of some new floor boards he has put in the house, funny he seems to be doing all this stuff when I am gone than when I was there probably burying himself in work to help with the pain. Anyway he told me they were going for a permit for some land so they can build double the amount of sheds they were having a meeting yesterday to see if it will go ahead. When I was with him this would affect me greatly as it would mean moving again as it has always been a dream of his so I was happy if he was. I had to be lucky I was happy with them as it is his way or the highway.  Anyway he text me today to see how my work was going and I asked him if they will be buying the land and he said no offence intended but I don't wish to share any more business details whilst things are the way they are and being separated. You are no longer within the family circle being estranged and wish to keep things private from now on. Is that just me but is that a form of emotional abuse? I know they are private people but he knows me and knows it would stay between us, besides if he wants me back like he claims doesn't he realise this could affect my life as well? Once again an example of him not thinking about me. I guess it is also a sign of immaturity which seems to be a trait of BPD sufferers! My ex is so suspicious of everything, I said to him a while back as my Dad is a farmer, I thought maybe in the future if you needed any help when you go on a bigger farm, Dad could help out. Just a suggestion, he totatally went off and said I knew your parents were trying to interfere in our lives, has he ever heard of being grateful?

[necchi]

guess it is also a sign of immaturity which seems to be a trait of BPD sufferers!

My  kids used to act like this before they could understand basic behavior one should have for one an other, this was about the age of 2.

Do you really need all that drama and pain?

Is your life wonderful to this extreme where you have to mix all that $hit in to dilute it?

Get off, have faith in yourself and recovery, start soon. I promise you will get great fast... .acceptance trust me. Might be written words but they don't come from a BPD.

But take actions.

[arn131arn]

Nice to see you are beginning to see patterns here,... .wheel's in motion.

He doesn't think before he acts---yes they act impulsively without being considered of the fallout. Sad, the things she did and said... .all like a sword through my guts.

then if I would bring it up... .; it was all in my head, my little tales.

I had something happen to me.  She left again (split) back in early September.  I'm ready to move, get attorneys involved, change the locks on my door.  What happens?  She calls me the day before I meet with her dad.  recycles me.  Tells me that we need to talk. 

She needs counseling (which she has been going to since) because she had issues.  She even opened up and admitted she couldn't trust anyone!  I was overjoyed.  Thought she was finally seeing the light.  Then she lied to me a week later and told me she was at a churrch prayer group, but she was at a concert with "friends".

She told me that she couldn't tell me the truth because I would get mad.  She NEVER gave me the chance on that one!  To not get mad?  Totlaly my fault, and I was at fault.  Besides, these are church counselors that she pays 10 dollars to see every week.  They are NOT qaulified to deal with her!

[necchi]

----Besides, these are church counselors that she pays 10 dollars to see every week.  They are NOT qaulified to deal with her!-------





! I don't get this were a grown adult human being would seek cure or behavioral improvements through god praying, religion's psych interpretations bull $hit ?

So if I try  to resonate in a similar manner I would say that he would've have made her like that?

Or if he made you like this, it's is hiti#g business its useless to ask over and over why?

Or hey! He's around us he listens to our demands! Then why she's still £ucked up!

[Pearl55]

marinro7

Borderlines believe they are not lovable. Some have strong tendency to religious beliefs. The more religious ones desparate to beleive god loves them. They only want to be loved even in their relationships.

Religion and ... .won't resolve their issues. So sad.

[necchi]

marinro7

Borderlines believe they are not lovable. Some have strong tendency to religious beliefs. The more religious ones desparate to beleive god loves them. They only want to be loved even in their relationships.

Religion and ... .won't resolve their issues. So sad.

Yah! ... .but anyway, it's about us and not them , right pearl?

[Pearl55]

marinro7

Yes of course. Who cares about us?

They want us love them unconditionally, care for them constantly,validate them ... .This is a endless list!

[loz1982]

I'm here thinking about my ex who I know is at a Christmas party tnite and will prob meet someone else. It happens like that they always find it easier even though they don't deserve it, seem to land on their feet. It hurts to think about him with someone else even though I know he is unhealthy for me. I have such conflicting emotions!

[loz1982]

I got a message from my ex yesterday saying he misses me very very much and it pains him why he was so removed from my feelings and needs! Does that show a level of self awareness? I know they are just words and believe me I am skeptical but isn't it common of BPD sufferers to just move on and forget once you are gone from their lives. Why is he still wanting me back?