I don't know how/if to process this

[damage control]

The ex has fallen into a habit of coming outside as soon as I get in and hanging out for a few hours ... this has been increasing this week. As I posted, he is taking my replacement away for a few days over the xmas break ... this was devastating to me to learn ... stupid to react like that but ... there it is.

He never actually said he was going with or taking her but, I am inclined to put 2 and 2 together here.

A couple of nights ago, he re-instigated email contact... sending me stuff and keeping me abreast of things going on in the house ...

today, I was at the airport collecting my dog and I got a call from a number i didn't know (he got a new phone a couple of weeks ago) ... it was him.

He wanted to know when I would be home

He offered to pay for the very large ($150+) cab fair from them airport to get my dog home. (i refused and told him it was not his responsibility)

He wanted to know how things were going with me and the other housemate - who is being a complete sh^te about the dog.

He bought a bottle of cointreau and asked me to share when I got home.


When I got in, he came straight out and asked me to join him for a drink - he NEVER drinks ... we have never had a drink together - not ever.

He also brought me a few things that he said were my 'xmas present' ... .thoughtful stuff to  ...

We got drunk together, played with the dog and I cooked us dinner ...

Out of the blue he apologised for 'hurting me'. He said that he doesn't know what happened to him, that he has turned into a very angry person and he cannot seem to help it.

I replied that the hurt was not as bad as the utter bewilderment and he responded that he was also bewildered.

We spoke for a while the night before about PD's and he told me that he thinks he might be a psychopath because not only does he not feel love, but that he doesn't care if others love him ... and although he feels compassion, it is only fleeting and then it is gone.

I introduced him to some literature on BPD ... I don't know if he will read it.

He kept mentioning that he was going to the markets in the morning and then finally asked me if I wanted to spend the day with him there.

He then said that he had been waiting all day to have a drink with me and just relax.

And yet ... there are no sexual overtures ... no attempt at anything more.

We both said goodnight about 10 minutes ago and went to our respective bedrooms.

I am completely confused.

He also said that he was going to be spending xmas day with his cousins - and yet made arrangements to see out neighbour on Sunday - o ... I have no idea whether he is going away with my replacement or alone ... or when he is going ... not that it matters either way ... but I am left reeling a bit

I don't know how I feel ... I don't know what he wants ... .I don't know how to deal.

Those boundaries? The ones I lack and have problems identifying ... well ... I feel like they are obliterated.

Is it the holidays? ... .he keeps telling me he is angry and kinda broken (he used the word 'homicidal' ... but I am pretty sure he is still seeing my replacement  ... so I am at a loss.

[WalrusGumboot]

I winced when I read your post. They always keep you off-balance and confused. It boggles the mind.

I do urge extra caution on your part. In the last few years of my marriage, my exBPDw started drinking quite a bit. She drank rarely before. The resulting dysfunctional behavior makes my skin crawl now, some being very dangerous. Not just when she was drinking, but also when sober. Did she started drinking maybe to temper her own increasing inner turmoil or vice verse, I don't know. Did the chicken or egg come first?

It would be a good idea on your part to take his use of the word "homicidal" seriously. You should have an emergency exit plan. I am not suggesting that he might try harming you, but "out of the mouth, speaks the heart" as the Good Book says. Something is going on inside him, and he is giving you a warning.

[patientandclear]

Hey DC -- I too winced, but for somewhat different reasons (though yes about the keeping you off balance, intentionally or not).

As you know, the dynamics here remind me so much of my situation with my ex.  It's like he could sneak up on intimacy with me from the back side without letting it know he was there.  But you could never acknowledge that was what was going on -- it had to be unacknowledged closeness, which means, no rules, expectations, consistency, and he needs to continually prove to himself that he can have space by simply taking space and sometimes by opening channels to other women.

I winced because I think he will have a large appetite for this with you, and it will indeed be intensely confusing, because it will look so much like a real r/s, and you will think it may & should become one, because how could it not?

But he's got it set up on these terms that are potentially so hard for you.  No expectations.  No right to want or need anything other than what he feels like dispensing at any given moment.  You're on tenderhooks wondering if today is going to be another day of closeness, but when it is, and he reacts to that by going off with no explanation & you know there is no way for you to object because those are the terms of engagement ... .that's where I worry for you.

[fromheeltoheal]

Lot of wincing going on around here damage, me too.  I don't know how you do it.  My borderline ex got me so incredibly angry at her towards the end, she finally pushed it way too far, that I was able to back off emotionally for a time, saved by that anger, and look at things very objectively.  That cutesy facade she paints on, the one I fell for hook, line and sinker so many times, just became so see-through to me, totally transparent, and I saw a little girl flailing against the situation my manufacturing optimism and glee, and it was disgusting.  There was no choice for me at that point: I HAD to bail.

I have no idea how I would have tolerated living with her after the relationship, no idea at all, don't think I could have done it.  My anger saved me and fueled my escape, but had I stuck around it would have waned, and she'd be workin her wiles again, she new exactly what worked with me, and I could see myself being emotionally enmeshed and set up for more crazy.  I admire your strength through all this.

You might want to look at what folks are up to on the Staying board, since voluntary or not, you're staying for now.  Your post could be summed up as Confusion, and of course a lot of it could be cleared up by sitting down and having a heart to heart conversation, something I never had with mine, attempts were met with blame and rage, so there you are, left in limbo, feeling strong mixed emotions; time to shore up them boundaries again best you can, here's some STRENGTH for use as needed.  Take care of you!

[Perfidy]

DC... Here's a thought. I'm a guy. When I behave like that with a female... Nice but not forward and sexually suggestive, what I am really doing is letting the female take the lead. This way I know that if sex happens its by her choice and not because I am trying to make it happen. It's a way of being subtle. He wants you to make a move on him. He knows that he screwed you over and has no right to make a move on you. The wine, gifts, offering are tools of the trade. Puts you in an obligatory position. The psychopath in me says that I can't feel love because when I discard you I won't feel bad because I warned you. You need to 86 this guy.

[damage control]

I winced when I read your post. They always keep you off-balance and confused. It boggles the mind.

I do urge extra caution on your part. In the last few years of my marriage, my exBPDw started drinking quite a bit. She drank rarely before. The resulting dysfunctional behavior makes my skin crawl now, some being very dangerous. Not just when she was drinking, but also when sober. Did she started drinking maybe to temper her own increasing inner turmoil or vice verse, I don't know. Did the chicken or egg come first?

It would be a good idea on your part to take his use of the word "homicidal" seriously. You should have an emergency exit plan. I am not suggesting that he might try harming you, but "out of the mouth, speaks the heart" as the Good Book says. Something is going on inside him, and he is giving you a warning.

Hi WG

Thanks for your input.

I don't think drinking will become and issue for him - he medicates for sure but he has prescription meds and so, doesn't need alcohol - in fact, I was completely floored when he wanted to drink - not him at all in any way - I think he fears the loss of control that being drunk brings - fear of exposure. That's what I have always thought anyhow.

The 'homicidal' comment ... well, I am taking it seriously, but not for myself. He and I have never fought or argued (he was very cruel for the first couple of days after he dumped me but, never loud or agressive - he is a WAIF).

I can see things with the other housemate escalating however - in fact they are escalating ... and something may happen there although neither of them are the type to use physical violence ... it is pretty toxic here right now.

[damage control]

Hey DC -- I too winced, but for somewhat different reasons (though yes about the keeping you off balance, intentionally or not).

As you know, the dynamics here remind me so much of my situation with my ex.  It's like he could sneak up on intimacy with me from the back side without letting it know he was there.  But you could never acknowledge that was what was going on -- it had to be unacknowledged closeness, which means, no rules, expectations, consistency, and he needs to continually prove to himself that he can have space by simply taking space and sometimes by opening channels to other women.

I winced because I think he will have a large appetite for this with you, and it will indeed be intensely confusing, because it will look so much like a real r/s, and you will think it may & should become one, because how could it not?

But he's got it set up on these terms that are potentially so hard for you.  No expectations.  No right to want or need anything other than what he feels like dispensing at any given moment.  You're on tenderhooks wondering if today is going to be another day of closeness, but when it is, and he reacts to that by going off with no explanation & you know there is no way for you to object because those are the terms of engagement ... .that's where I worry for you.

Hey P+C

I thought of you to last night and how similar our situations are. Aren't we just a couple of lucky, lucky girls? :P

Yes ... the need for closeness combined with the need for space combined with confusion on both sides ... .oh yes ... fun ... .

I don't know why he has this appetite as you call it for 'this' (whatever this is) with me ... I don't understand it at all - but again ... I am sure you can relate. Perhaps it is because we 'let' it be that way? I am not sure.

No expectations. None. Exactly. How could hanging out every night etc actually mean anything right? Why would talking about intimate things and making dinner plans every day, have any significance? ... ppppfftt.

He did this while we were together - he was always reactive to the word 'relationship' and yet he behaved like we were completely, 100% in a relationship. I always put it down to an aversion to the word ... but it's just so much more complicated than that ... .

[damage control]

DC... Here's a thought. I'm a guy. When I behave like that with a female... Nice but not forward and sexually suggestive, what I am really doing is letting the female take the lead. This way I know that if sex happens its by her choice and not because I am trying to make it happen. It's a way of being subtle. He wants you to make a move on him. He knows that he screwed you over and has no right to make a move on you. The wine, gifts, offering are tools of the trade. Puts you in an obligatory position. The psychopath in me says that I can't feel love because when I discard you I won't feel bad because I warned you. You need to 86 this guy.

Hiya Perdify ... it's really helpful to get a guy's perspective - thanks.

I awoke to him this morning in my room asking if I slept ok. He sat by my bed and kept reaching out to pat my dog and his arm/hands would be on me/over my legs to reach ... at one point the dog jumped off and he just sat there with his arm on the bed, his hand just centimetres from my thigh.

We went outside my room for a smoke and that continued ... reaching through my legs to pat the dog etc... we were thigh to thigh when sitting because it is a small space outside my room ... .patting my dog's stomach when I did and our hands were touching ... it's driving me nuts.

I honestly don't know if he is looking for something sexual - I read what I have written and it would appear so to the outside observer but, I honestly don't know.

He just came in while I was writing this to tell me he is off to the markets and that he will be back in a couple of hours. He said he was concerned about leaving me here alone with the psycho housemate and that I should call him if anything at all happens, no matter how small.

Finished off by saying he will buy some salmon and salad and make us dinner. ... .what the heck ... I mean ... really ... what the heck?

I am dying to know if he is still going away with my replacement or if

something has happened with her - I don't see why he isn't spending the weekend with her ... but, I am not going to bring it up or ask. 

The gifts were weird - nothing extravagant, but definitely sweet and thoughtful ... .off-balance ... yes ... I am  definitely that.

[damage control]

Lot of wincing going on around here damage, me too.  I don't know how you do it.  My borderline ex got me so incredibly angry at her towards the end, she finally pushed it way too far, that I was able to back off emotionally for a time, saved by that anger, and look at things very objectively.  That cutesy facade she paints on, the one I fell for hook, line and sinker so many times, just became so see-through to me, totally transparent, and I saw a little girl flailing against the situation my manufacturing optimism and glee, and it was disgusting.  There was no choice for me at that point: I HAD to bail.

I have no idea how I would have tolerated living with her after the relationship, no idea at all, don't think I could have done it.  My anger saved me and fueled my escape, but had I stuck around it would have waned, and she'd be workin her wiles again, she new exactly what worked with me, and I could see myself being emotionally enmeshed and set up for more crazy.  I admire your strength through all this.

You might want to look at what folks are up to on the Staying board, since voluntary or not, you're staying for now.  Your post could be summed up as Confusion, and of course a lot of it could be cleared up by sitting down and having a heart to heart conversation, something I never had with mine, attempts were met with blame and rage, so there you are, left in limbo, feeling strong mixed emotions; time to shore up them boundaries again best you can, here's some STRENGTH for use as needed.  Take care of you!

Hey heeltoheal (I always liked your name)

I wasn't 'doing it' ... it has been driving me nutso for weeks ... but at least I knew where he and I stood ... well, it was always confusing but nothing like this past week/10 days, it was more on/off.

I WISH he and I had argued and fought ... I WISH that there was anger there. But there isn't.

Somebody else commented about me posting on the staying board.

It's dumb ... but it feels like a huge deal to go post over there ... like I am admitting that there is some hope.longevity to all of this ... I am here with him because I am stuck for the moment and don't really have a choice but clearly ... it's more complicated than that ... and getting more so.

I don't want to be posting stuff like this thread if it upsets anybody here (and I understand that it might) ... I have identified with leaving all this time ... I honestly do not see how I can 'stay' in any sense of the word - he and I would only end up where we were because that is who he is ... intimacy triggers him ... I trigger him.

[fromheeltoheal]

Somebody else commented about me posting on the staying board.

It's dumb ... but it feels like a huge deal to go post over there ... like I am admitting that there is some hope.longevity to all of this ... I am here with him because I am stuck for the moment and don't really have a choice but clearly ... it's more complicated than that ... and getting more so.

So how about considering yourself involuntarily staying?  It doesn't have to be a concession that you want to be in a relationship with him, just a place to get some tools to deal with it.  I've read a bunch of posts on that board and it's so difficult for those folks; the Leaving board is easier in a sense that we've thrown in the towel, beat the evil borderline up for a while, and then get on with healing, growing and getting back on our feet.  The staying folks are still in the middle of it and need to come up with coping tools that help them with the crazy.  No thanks, I'm done with her, but it might help with your current situation.

I don't want to be posting stuff like this thread if it upsets anybody here (and I understand that it might) ... I have identified with leaving all this time ... I honestly do not see how I can 'stay' in any sense of the word - he and I would only end up where we were because that is who he is ... intimacy triggers him ... I trigger him.

No worries, post what you want, we're all here to support each other.  I post on both the Leaving and Personal Inventory boards because that's where I am, whatever fits.

[Learning_curve74]

Hey dc, I'm real sorry to hear about your confusion, I think we all have felt that at some point otherwise we wouldn't be here on the boards. 

He is BPD and by definition has intimacy and attachment problems. There is a theory that a BPDer experienced infant/childhood trauma from not bonding or from abuse, and that trauma causes BPD to arise due to incomplete emotional and psychological development. The BPD behaviors arise as a coping mechanism for their pain. One of the most important psychological needs is to feel connected and loved, but BPD causes that to be a huge fear as well, so not only are BPD thought patterns disordered, but anybody who gets close enough gets pulled into the chaos as well.

I agree with heal that since you have some barriers to moving right now and you'll likely be in contact with him, you can benefit from at least checking out the Staying board to work on communication skills, establishing boundaries, and coping tools for yourself.

[arn131arn]

The more and more I read, the more and more I see.

A few years ago, X mas eve night, I was playing Santa, building the 1000 piece train set until 430 in the am.  I fall asleep, tired.  I awake to her cursing, slapping and yelling at the top of her lungs that I cheated on her, and how dare me, and how I ruined her x mas.

Earlier that year during one of our splits, a girl at school was interested in me.  We went for coffee, and I even kissed her.  She was really interested in me, but I couldn't shake the shackles of Hitler.  You see Hitler was the mother of my child and I was obligated to her.

Anyway, Hitler looked at all the cell phone info and figured out that I had been talking to this girl.  She KNEW for a fact that we F@cked, and in the bed we shared together.

Anyway, this cute girl was, in fact, interested in me, and my UBPDexF sent her a pretty explicit text from my phone.  Amazingly, the girl, sent one right back to me and said she was thinking about me that way too.

A few days later, I guess the "sane" girl put two and two together and texted me "that wasn't you I was texting with a few nights ago, huh?"

I said "no"... .she responded "oops".  But it was all made up, created chaos, that my BPD SO at the time coordinated... .Then I ruined her x mas, between that and my drinking, I am a worthless piece of SH*T!  But I honestly hadn't talked to the girl since I was trying again with Adolf.

Wonder what that cute girl is up to?  Probably in the healthiest RS she's ever dreamed of... .oh well

[arn131arn]

I winced when I read your post. They always keep you off-balance and confused. It boggles the mind.

I do urge extra caution on your part. In the last few years of my marriage, my exBPDw started drinking quite a bit. She drank rarely before. The resulting dysfunctional behavior makes my skin crawl now, some being very dangerous. Not just when she was drinking, but also when sober. Did she started drinking maybe to temper her own increasing inner turmoil or vice verse, I don't know. Did the chicken or egg come first?

It would be a good idea on your part to take his use of the word "homicidal" seriously. You should have an emergency exit plan. I am not suggesting that he might try harming you, but "out of the mouth, speaks the heart" as the Good Book says. Something is going on inside him, and he is giving you a warning.

Mine would complain how I didn't do anything around the house.  I went to school full-time during the day and worked every night to pay for the house and bills that she lived in bill-free.

I remember once, I started doing the laundry.  Did it for a week, folded clothes and put them away.

Did ya'll know that towels were NOT supposed to go with any type of clothing you wear on your body?

I sure didn't... .she had such a meltdown over this... .I never touched the clothes again... .B*#ch all you want... .I don't care