Money

[Depression = 72% of members]

I need some advise because I'm at quite a loss.

One of the really big issues in the life of me and my BPD is money. When I lived back in the states, I had my own business, a house, and I supported two boys as a single mom.

Since moving here to Sweden, I've had to reinvent my business. Find new contacts and clients. I'm presently learning the language in night school. And I've only recently started to make some money and some inroads into working here in this country. I have only been in business in Sweden for about one year. It's still a baby business :-)

I am able to support myself now in that I can renew my bus pass monthly, pay for my mobile, and my bills, and I contribute to groceries and some items for the betterment of our home. My BPD provides the roof over our head, the internet, insurance, and probably 60% of the groceries. He does not do this gracefully!

I do not spend money on clothes, makeup, or other items which I was able to afford in the U.S. I do not have winter boots, or a rain-proof winter jacket. I have not been able to get business cards or invest back into my business.

A huge trigger for him is that I am a "freeloader". I can not tell you how many times I've heard this. He expects that I pay half the rent and the utilities. RIGHT NOW! This has been an issue since the first month I moved here.

When I moved here I had a certain amount of money which I gained from the sale of my belongings. All that money was shared with my BPD for "our new life together." He was suppose to take me to Paris for my birthday. Instead I suggested, let's instead take that vacation money and use it toward our new life. He agreed.

I hear constantly how I don't contribute anything to our relationship. In attempting to make up for the financial support which he provides, I keep a clean house, do laundry, etc…  and basically contort myself trying to run my business, go to school, and be a good partner.

Several months ago, I heard over and over what a freeloader I was. I felt bad because he was in fact supporting me.  So I went and sold some of the jewelry my mother had left me after her death. I got a good amount of money for the gold and I gave my BPD half of it. Two days later, he still had the bills in his wallet, and he called me a freeloader and raged about how I contribute nothing. This BROKE MY HEART! Live and learn!

His father gave us money so that we could get our cats neutered. My BPD drank the money away. His sister gave me 500kr for a birthday gift. He drank it.

Now this guy, has only worked five months this year. Due to weather and some bad planning by his boss, my BPD, who works construction, has not had a profitable year. He gets super stressed over finances. He is also an alcoholic. He pays our bills like clock work but all the rest of his disposable income is spent at a bar or at the liquor store. When he runs thru his money by the 10th of the month (here in Sweden we only get paid once a month, usually around the 25th of month), I support us on what little I make for the next two weeks. (I get paid on the 14th of the month). Of course, he says, the problem isn't because of drinking or not working for 7 months … the problem is ME!

This has been going on now for four months. He still calls me a freeloader and does not see the contributions I make. I have been told once again, that I have to pay half the rent and bills. Hmmmm….

I can foresee a scenario where this is going to become twisted. Let's say I do pay half the rent (which in a normal relationship I would certainly do … or as my xhusband and I worked out, he'd paid certain bills … mortgage, utilities and I paid for internet and groceries) but here, I foresee, that I pay half the bills, he drinks thru the disposable income, gets drunk, verbally abuses me, and then both of us have no money from the 10th - 24th of each month. Additionally he will not appreciate it or see the contribution.

I CAN NOT and will not give my BPD all my money. Because of the BPD illness and the instability of this relationship, I must also save some money for reasons of safety or flight, if need be.

I could, in fact, provide at some point near in the future, half the rent etc … (because it would be the right thing to do) but then what type of boundaries do I set? I know if I provide half the rent etc, and set things up as a roommate situation. (You buy your food, booze, etc. I buy mine. If you drink thru all your money … this is not my problem.) BUT … then I know I'll hear how he supported me for months and now I will not support him. This will just be another bone of contention and I can see that I will become the main provider and an enabler to his drinking … if I let this happen.

I don't see a way to sort out this situation. I do not like being supported. I wish I could contribute more (why I don't know… because it's the right thing to do?). I can not provide money to him at my own detriment. At the present time I am new in this country … I'm doing what I can. It doesn't matter. It's still not good enough for him. I don't think it ever will be.

Suggestions are most appreciated.

[sadinsweden]

I need some advise because I'm at quite a loss.

One of the really big issues in the life of me and my BPD is money. When I lived back in the states, I had my own business, a house, and I supported two boys as a single mom.

Since moving here to Sweden, I've had to reinvent my business. Find new contacts and clients. I'm presently learning the language in night school. And I've only recently started to make some money and some inroads into working here in this country. I have only been in business in Sweden for about one year. It's still a baby business :-)

I am able to support myself now in that I can renew my bus pass monthly, pay for my mobile, and my bills, and I contribute to groceries and some items for the betterment of our home. My BPD provides the roof over our head, the internet, insurance, and probably 60% of the groceries. He does not do this gracefully!

I do not spend money on clothes, makeup, or other items which I was able to afford in the U.S. I do not have winter boots, or a rain-proof winter jacket. I have not been able to get business cards or invest back into my business.

A huge trigger for him is that I am a "freeloader". I can not tell you how many times I've heard this. He expects that I pay half the rent and the utilities. RIGHT NOW! This has been an issue since the first month I moved here.

When I moved here I had a certain amount of money which I gained from the sale of my belongings. All that money was shared with my BPD for "our new life together." He was suppose to take me to Paris for my birthday. Instead I suggested, let's instead take that vacation money and use it toward our new life. He agreed.

I hear constantly how I don't contribute anything to our relationship. In attempting to make up for the financial support which he provides, I keep a clean house, do laundry, etc…  and basically contort myself trying to run my business, go to school, and be a good partner.

Several months ago, I heard over and over what a freeloader I was. I felt bad because he was in fact supporting me.  So I went and sold some of the jewelry my mother had left me after her death. I got a good amount of money for the gold and I gave my BPD half of it. Two days later, he still had the bills in his wallet, and he called me a freeloader and raged about how I contribute nothing. This BROKE MY HEART! Live and learn!

His father gave us money so that we could get our cats neutered. My BPD drank the money away. His sister gave me 500kr for a birthday gift. He drank it.

Now this guy, has only worked five months this year. Due to weather and some bad planning by his boss, my BPD, who works construction, has not had a profitable year. He gets super stressed over finances. He is also an alcoholic. He pays our bills like clock work but all the rest of his disposable income is spent at a bar or at the liquor store. When he runs thru his money by the 10th of the month (here in Sweden we only get paid once a month, usually around the 25th of month), I support us on what little I make for the next two weeks. (I get paid on the 14th of the month). Of course, he says, the problem isn't because of drinking or not working for 7 months … the problem is ME!

This has been going on now for four months. He still calls me a freeloader and does not see the contributions I make. I have been told once again, that I have to pay half the rent and bills. Hmmmm….

I can foresee a scenario where this is going to become twisted. Let's say I do pay half the rent (which in a normal relationship I would certainly do … or as my xhusband and I worked out, he'd paid certain bills … mortgage, utilities and I paid for internet and groceries) but here, I foresee, that I pay half the bills, he drinks thru the disposable income, gets drunk, verbally abuses me, and then both of us have no money from the 10th - 24th of each month. Additionally he will not appreciate it or see the contribution.

I CAN NOT and will not give my BPD all my money. Because of the BPD illness and the instability of this relationship, I must also save some money for reasons of safety or flight, if need be.

I could, in fact, provide at some point near in the future, half the rent etc … (because it would be the right thing to do) but then what type of boundaries do I set? I know if I provide half the rent etc, and set things up as a roommate situation. (You buy your food, booze, etc. I buy mine. If you drink thru all your money … this is not my problem.) BUT … then I know I'll hear how he supported me for months and now I will not support him. This will just be another bone of contention and I can see that I will become the main provider and an enabler to his drinking … if I let this happen.

I don't see a way to sort out this situation. I do not like being supported. I wish I could contribute more (why I don't know… because it's the right thing to do?). I can not provide money to him at my own detriment. At the present time I am new in this country … I'm doing what I can. It doesn't matter. It's still not good enough for him. I don't think it ever will be.

Suggestions are most appreciated.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[waverider]

I'm doing what I can. It doesn't matter. It's still not good enough for him. I don't think it ever will be.

This is basically it in a nutshell, he needs to be the one who is seen to support you, that gives him validation. But to highlight this he has to make sure you and everyone else is aware of this. You will not satisfy this need, if you do it will invalidate him as the provider and his position of dominance.

To keep handing over 'contributions' will just see them swallowed up leaving you with nothing but resentment.

Sharing finance with either pwBPD or and addict/alcoholic is a nightmare, especially if they have both issues. I went through this. Your financial responsibilities need to be clearly separated, not just you take over when he's blown it. In my case it was me taking over all essential costs and my partner taking over surplus/luxury items and costs.

The major issue is a pwBPD gets little reward for paying for "dull" low reward expenses and so become resentful. But let them be responsible for "treats' and high reward items and they get more out of spending... ie its not about spending on you its about receiving praise for their "generosity'. Paying for dinner vs paying a gas bill. A perception of wealth and contribution.

Do not hand over lump sums. You do it once and he learns that he can guilt you into doing it again. Your contributions need to be fixed and consistant.

[sadinsweden]

The major issue is a pwBPD gets little reward for paying for "dull" low reward expenses and so become resentful. But let them be responsible for "treats' and high reward items and they get more out of spending... ie its not about spending on you its about receiving praise for their "generosity'. Paying for dinner vs paying a gas bill. A perception of wealth and contribution.

Wait! ... .What? 

Ok... .certain things are becoming clear now. But so confusing. I never saw this Waverider. But you make sense. Yes, he is always buying me gifts.

I have to go and consider this. You sort of blew my mind here a bit.

[waverider]

This is what used to throw me, how could someone who is overly generous, especially in the initial idealizations phase, somehow be extremely self centered? It took a while for me to join the dots, but buying approval is the same meeting of their own needs as anything else they may do.

It is done when and where of their choosing. My partner will massage my feet if they are sore (as long as it is her idea and not my request), but will not wash the dishes.

Less praise value a task=Less effort put in.

I found it pointless fighting this, and so I worked it to my own advantage. I pay the bills and she pays for weekends away/coffees/brunch etc... .she likes these things so doesn't mind paying, and it is more important to get the bills paid than luxuries so that reduces my stress by putting in my control.

Having her contribute to bills simply bred entitlement and resentment.

[sadinsweden]

Waverider, I returned to your reply above 5 times and still can't quite wrap my head around it, and yet, I know you are on to something very important.

You use words validation, support, provider, and dominance.

I suck at validating him. I really do. Don't get me wrong, I'm very appreciative of the things he does but not enough to fill that empty hole in his heart/mind. I could do more, but at this point, I'm busy with my own self validation. The character assassination over the last year has been intense. I need to be able to hold on to myself least I simply cease to exist. Having said this … I should do more for him and find effective ways of doing that. Simply saying "thank you, the gift is beautiful" is not enough. Saying "Yes, You work so hard" is not enough. This is why I'm always hearing how his job is more important (Mine is meaningless), he does the dishes (I do nothing).

What you are saying is that being the supporter/provider validates him. Then why is he always demanding that I pay half the bills (which is understandable) if that will only serve to invalidate him?

Validation … and thus his frustration and stress regarding his lack of work over the last year. He struggles to pay bills now (where as before my arrival he did not). Yet, he now also drinks heavily, whereas before he did not. The drinking is in part, I believe, because he has never lived with another person and because in doing so his BPD is exposed (to me and to himself) and it's a heavy burden. He knows he treats me badly. It's depressing to him (what is that called … cognitive dissonance?) And so he drinks. He drinks also due to the stress of lack of work … this has nothing to do with me, but he doesn't see that.

Because I'm new in this country I have no credit rating. Most expats in Sweden are in this same position, unless they have come here for business. If you are a "love pat", your BF/spouse/partner is in the position of having to support you until you get on your feet. I might be able to establish credit due to my self run business. In which case I could have the internet put in my name. I have to check into this. Being an expat is a journey. It takes time to establish oneself … patience is not my BPD's strong suit.

You advise me not to hand over lump sums and I agree, but I feel that is exactly what my BPD wants. I have explained this to him before, I need certain assurances. For instance, security. I'd need to see the numbers and there would need to be a paper trail. Regardless, I'm not in a position to be able to assume all the essential costs because I don't have the credit/income. I could take responsibility for the purchase of all the groceries and the internet (which would also be a business deduction). I have also suggested to him that we establish a bank account where we BOTH deposit funds to pay bills. This would be separate from our own personal accounts. I'm not sure this is a good idea but I'm brainstorming here …

Dominance. I never considered this. Of course, an Ah-ha moment, dominance is a huge factor, but is this what it's all about? Abuse is always about control and dominance. I just never considered the word/notion before and it's implications. And yet … when once I told him that I should be "stronger with him", he agreed. I'm confused.

[waverider]

Waverider, I returned to your reply above 5 times and still can't quite wrap my head around it, and yet, I know you are on to something very important.

You use words validation, support, provider, and dominance.

I suck at validating him. I really do. Don't get me wrong, I'm very appreciative of the things he does but not enough to fill that empty hole in his heart/mind. I could do more, but at this point, I'm busy with my own self validation.

You can't validate someone else effectively until you have learned to validate yourself first. You wont have the confidence to know you are doing the right thing slipping too easily into patronizing or JADE.

Validation is not the answer to everything in itself, it simple oils the cogs a little smoother

The character assassination over the last year has been intense. I need to be able to hold on to myself least I simply cease to exist. Having said this … I should do more for him and find effective ways of doing that. Simply saying "thank you, the gift is beautiful" is not enough. Saying "Yes, You work so hard" is not enough. This is why I'm always hearing how his job is more important (Mine is meaningless), he does the dishes (I do nothing).

In his mind he is either better than you or lesser, he doesn't do equal.

What you are saying is that being the supporter/provider validates him. Then why is he always demanding that I pay half the bills (which is understandable) if that will only serve to invalidate him?

That would still not meet his neediness. Unfortunately needy people genuinely believe the issue of the moment is THE issue. They don't believe they are needy. Just like an alcoholic thinks one more drink will fix a craving, they dont have a drinking problem. It is part of the delusional self sabotaging behavior and reasoning associated with BPD. Long term consistent reasoning can be outside their scope.

Validation … and thus his frustration and stress regarding his lack of work over the last year. He struggles to pay bills now (where as before my arrival he did not). Yet, he now also drinks heavily, whereas before he did not. The drinking is in part, I believe, because he has never lived with another person and because in doing so his BPD is exposed (to me and to himself) and it's a heavy burden. He knows he treats me badly. It's depressing to him (what is that called … cognitive dissonance?) And so he drinks. He drinks also due to the stress of lack of work … this has nothing to do with me, but he doesn't see that.

Well it cant be because of him, and someone has to be at fault, so thats you.

Lack of healthy regulation of all aspects of life leads to bill paying issues and blocking stress and fear of being seen to fall short by drinking, or other ways of doping it out. This can't be their fault, you drove them to it out of their fear of being judged by you.

Because I'm new in this country I have no credit rating. Most expats in Sweden are in this same position, unless they have come here for business. If you are a "love pat", your BF/spouse/partner is in the position of having to support you until you get on your feet. I might be able to establish credit due to my self run business. In which case I could have the internet put in my name. I have to check into this. Being an expat is a journey. It takes time to establish oneself … patience is not my BPD's strong suit.

I'm also an 'ex pat" and know what you mean about its hard enough getting established without any further issues... I feel for you.

You advise me not to hand over lump sums and I agree, but I feel that is exactly what my BPD wants. I have explained this to him before, I need certain assurances. For instance, security. I'd need to see the numbers and there would need to be a paper trail. Regardless, I'm not in a position to be able to assume all the essential costs because I don't have the credit/income. I could take responsibility for the purchase of all the groceries and the internet (which would also be a business deduction). I have also suggested to him that we establish a bank account where we BOTH deposit funds to pay bills. This would be separate from our own personal accounts. I'm not sure this is a good idea but I'm brainstorming here …

I would be reluctant to go down the path of joint account for bills, I went down that path and it is surprising how things suddenly become "essential expenses', especially as he is accessing your funds, and you still fall short. Probably better to specify certain expenses as your responsibility, so there is no crossover. Handing over lump sums is going to hinder you establishing yourself. what would be enough 100? 200? 500? 1000? Once a year? month? week? Its too renegotiable as expectations change

Dominance. I never considered this. Of course, an Ah-ha moment, dominance is a huge factor, but is this what it's all about? Abuse is always about control and dominance. I just never considered the word/notion before and it's implications. And yet … when once I told him that I should be "stronger with him", he agreed. I'm confused.

It is common for pwBPD to eventually say this, ultimately they need boundaries but are incapable of setting them up and respecting them themselves.

Conflict is often conflict just for the sake of it. If they have no boundaries to fight against, it can be more chaotic. Their life has no purpose. To be a victim they need a persecutor, life is then balanced in a BPD view of the world

It may be ironic but ultimately they can come to respect people who set boundaries even though they struggle to accept the boundaries themselves and see it as a direct challenge.

Just to throw another aspect into the mix... When you start acting the victim, then you are stealing his role, he needs you to be the persecutor which further enrages him... He is the victim of your neediness.

To live harmoniously with a pwBPD you need to be seen as strong and unwavering like a rock, yet at the same time not perceived as a threat (this is only achieved by breaking the victim/persecutor/rescuer role playing). Not an easy balance to achieve, but it is possible

[waverider]

At the end of the day this is all just food for thought, everyone is different and there are no golden rules. Only you can come to your own conclusions. For much of it you will never find an answer, or any logical sense. It just is.

It does become more predictable even if you don't fully know why.

[sadinsweden]

Well it cant be because of him, and someone has to be at fault, so thats you.

Lack of healthy regulation of all aspects of life leads to bill paying issues and blocking stress and fear of being seen to fall short by drinking, or other ways of doping it out. This can't be their fault, you drove them to it out of their fear of being judged by you.

You know Waverider, sometimes, oftentimes, when I read your words I have so many Ah-ha moments that I have to shut down my computer, sit at my desk for about an hour going "Ohhhhhh... ." and then it takes me a few days just to process the whole thing. Suddenly snippets of conversations from the past make sense. Behaviors are hmmm... .somewhat clarified.

You are so dead-on with these things, especially the quote above. I was always so puzzled by his constant references to "fault". "It's always my fault!" he'd say. I'd try to explain that things aren't about finding fault, but he just can't grasp the concept. I assumed, due to reading, that his mindset and that his BPD must have been caused perhaps by some traumatic event (as well as heredity) whereby he was blamed for something outside his control. This "fault" issue is core to his behaviors, I believe, and is central to the way in which he treats me. It's really so so sad.

Having said this, I also believe in holding people personally accountable for their actions. So, when he throws food, or some other behavior that is unacceptable, he is held accountable. The very first boundary I set was "if you mess it up, you clean it up!" I once had pizza on my kitchen wall for a week! LOL. But he cleaned it up.

I will say, that my BPD has been doing some heavy emotional lifting this last year. It's positive work. I have been doing the same. I see progress being made. Let me say those words again ... .There is progress being made!   

We have had some small conversations (because they can't be any longer than a five minute chat) regarding money. Because of you, Waverider, I felt I was prepared to take this first step towards this issue. I clearly told my BPD that there was no way I would hand over lump sums of cash. I explained that this was for my own security and to better establish myself in this new country. I offered some suggestions on how WE should best handle the situation. For instance, that we split the grocery shopping into 2 week rotations. He shops for the two weeks after he gets paid ... .because he enjoys buying fun items as well. And then I do the next two weeks after I get paid. He liked this idea. He seems comfortable and I might even say, "appreciative" (for now) that I am offering solutions to improving our financial relationship. He has even taken steps in the last two days in which to put my name on some insurance coverages for us! AND ... .I have acknowledged his efforts.

We have a lot of work to do here still, but I want to thank you so very much for your words and insights. I think you might have made 2014 a much better and more productive year for both myself and my BPD. Thank you, thank you... .and a very happy New Year to you Waverider!