Child manipulation

[Concord]

Hi everyone. I'm 5 years out of a marriage with a BPD. I feel like I need to vent.

S11 tells me over a month ago that his mother isn't friends with 'Jane' anymore so he can't see her kids anymore either. S11 was upset about this. He doesn't have many friends and these were important friends to him that he's had all his life.

Son raised it again recently so I contacted Jane (I was friends with the family too when married and have seen them on occasion since) to see if a play date was possible over the holidays. Jane excitedly agreed as she didn't want the kids to suffer, and a play date was organised.

When ex learned about it she flipped out and abused Jane and me. What's worse is she brought S11 in on her war and convinced him to "side" with her, using all her cunning and guilt tripping ways.

S11 went from being elated to see them again to telling me he's not that good friends with them anyway, Jane is a terrible person and to cancel the play date. He was very adamant that it must be cancelled. I refused to cancel, but the next day, Jane did.

Amazing how someone so negative and nasty can influence people to do their will. It's so obvious to me that ex is just being a bully but Jane and our son can't see it. It's sad that he's lost this chance of continuing the friendship.

[livednlearned]

Something like this would devastate my son (12) too. I'm really sorry to hear about this Concord, it must hurt you just as much as it does your son.

How did you talk to him about the splitting that happened when his mom found out?

[Concord]

Hi livednlearn.

I just brought the focus back to him and his friends. I told him that Jane hasn't become a terrible person all of a sudden, and that his mother would get over it and would be fine, but if it's cancelled then there's no play in a month, 6 months, a year etc ... .that's it. I told him to think about him and what he wants. He then admitted that he did want to see them (surprise surprise) but still wanted it cancelled for her. I think she's also given him some hope that he might still be able to see them. Just not now.

Thanks for your comments. If you have any other ideas on how to deal with these situations I'm all ears. I'm sure there will be many more to come. I just hope he learns from this.

[Free One]

So sorry you and your son had to go through this. Unfortunately, there is probably other manipulation that goes on that just hasn't come to the surface. It's hard to see our kids suffer like that.

Are there activities you can get your son involved in when he's with you to expand his circle of friends?

[Concord]

Thanks Free One

He had 3 friends on his mothers side but they have all now disappeared from his life over the past few months.

I do get him involved in activities and groups and he has some close friends with me. But he struggles to make new friends on his own so the ones he's had for years are like gold.

[Nope]

As sad as it is just remember that children do eventually start to see patterns. When they are with one parent things are stable. When they are with the other parent things are not. The sooner the children realize from their own validated experiences that there is something wrong with their mom the less confused they will be in the long run.

In my case the kid's have gone through about five pets in four years at their mom's. They either go missing or end up dead. The kids seem pretty ambivilant about it. At our house we've had the same dog and two cats who the children love and ask after often when they aren't here. D10 seems to get that anything that comes out of her mom's mouth should not be entirely trusted. S9 seems to just be figuring that out now. Since he is the "all bad" child that is helping him to stop believing the things she says about him.

[livednlearned]

Concord -- are there two issues here? One being your ex "splitting" the mother of your son's friend, thereby ending the friendship (and being too afraid to stand up to her, which is not unusual for kids). The other issue being your son's ability to make friends? S12 struggles/struggled with this too. He had some tendencies with friendships that made it hard for him to make and keep them -- although that has gotten much better. There is a social skills group for middle schoolers in my area that I've thought about taking S12 to. It's led by two psychologists who are apparently excellent at creating a fun/safe place for tweens to learn social skills. It was initially developed for kids with asperger's and ADHD, but all kinds of kids take it.

Maybe something to help your son figure out how to make friends? Middle school is a vicious time for all kids, particularly a kid who struggles with friends. Your son may need help from you and other grown ups whose sole purpose is to help show him how we make and keep friends, how to resolve conflict, how to start up a conversation, how to be kind. It's a learned skill for many of us!

[Free One]

It makes perfect sense these kids would have trouble making/keeping friends when they have examples of what you described, Concord. I do have faith that they will figure it out, but maybe not for a few years, and that can make the time in between difficult.

[ForeverDad]

This flip from one viewpoint to the opposite is a sad consequence of a child growing up being told what to believe from moment to ever-changing moment.  He needs to learn the skill to observe the facts and make firm conclusions based on his observations.  That is hard for him with a parent who will rant and rage until he caves in and agrees with that parent.  You'll need to teach him - over time - how to observe, how to conclude what the facts are and how not to be pressured into appeaser, compliant or puppet modes.  Yes, easier said than done.  It will be a process, not an event.

As an example, my ex and her sister lived their childhood with uBPD mother and uNPD abuser stepfather.  I recall my then-spouse and I visiting her sister and her sister had a terrible opinion of us.  By the time we left we were wonderful and the parents were in the dog house.  Next visit, we were terrible all over again.  She was that changeable.  Back then SIL was like a leaf blown in the wind, couldn't stand firm on her own observations, conclusions or convictions. For her the facts all depended upon who she was with, not a solid foundation within herself.

I suspect 'Jane' cancelled to avoid the conflict and characterizations.  (Hopefully not more than that.)  I can't blame her, really.  My son had a sleepover with his best friend from school at friend's house on my parenting time in January 2012.  When ex found out I wasn't there overnight, she blew her cork at me and them.  She raged that she'd come with the police to retrieve her son and then take them to court if it ever happened again.  The parents naturally didn't want that threat - flashing lights in driveway and summons to court - to ever happen again.  It was nearly 2 years before son had another sleepover at their house.