They must fear instability right? Scared of stability?

[Iamdizzy]

I've been reflecting on my past relationship recently. Why I stayed, what I let some things go, what I'll do/change next time and I've bene thinking about her behavior as well.

One thing that really stood out was that if we were having a good day, or few days, or week (the good times never lasted more than a week) she would say/ do something to bring chaos and drama back into the relationship. ALWAYS. If things were stable in her work/school/family and our relationship she'd do something to at least have chaos in one of those aspects of her life.

What is it? do they fear stablitiy? Is it something foreign to them?

How could someone advocate being 'at peace' and wanting love in their life yet be the sole contributor of chaos to it?

Bpd is seriously sad and my a pieace of my heart goes to them.

[Perfidy]

Stability is desired by all whether disordered or not. Just go to a care center and you'll find many disordered people that thrive with stability. The instability can mean several things. For one it is a tactic used by kids to manipulate their parents. Adults use it to keep each other off balance. Structure and stability together promote healthy living. You know how unhealthy BPD can be.

[santa]

From my experience, my BPD ex craved chaos. It was like stability made her uncomfortable, so she had to cause chaos.

[Findingmysong723]

My Ex couldn't deal with quiet, it made him really uncomfortable and made his anxiety worse! If we were driving in my car and I hadn't put a CD on or the radio, depending on his mood joke about (if he was in a good mood) or sarcastically and rudely say "Oh you know how much I like quiet like this" or something like that!

I remember my Ex wanting us to pretend to fight one day, so the neighbors could hear. I also remember him getting all excited hearing a couple in his apartment complex argue, he would get all excited like a little kid. This is my pop psychology is that, my Ex boyfriend was scared of what might happen in quiet, because he lived in an abusive home when he was really little and was an obviously scary place! If he can control the chaos and make the chaos he doesn't have to worry about it creeping up on him, it's already there! I remember when we were breaking up, he was like "we would end up hating each other, so it's better that we do this now when we still like each other or something like that. I guess because he believe from his past experience, that everything eventually goes to s**t!

Even thorough all the chaos and his anger, I never become an angry person who would call him names etc. I wish I stuck up for myself more and got out before I did. However,  his behavior didn't change me from being a "nice girl!" : )

[fromheeltoheal]

A borderline is in perpetual mental chaos, in that sufferers feel all emotions intensely, but have learned to keep a lid on it to function in the world. A sense of calm in their surroundings just lets the emotions run amok in their heads, so they do something to create some chaos to soothe, to feel better. It's a maladaptive coping mechanism; make things on the outside chaotic to deal with things on the inside. There are obviously better ways, like meditation, but that would take a strong commitment to healing, it's a tough road for a sufferer, plus the chaos has the benefit of keeping you on edge and trashing your self esteem, to control you so you won't leave. As counterintuitive as that is, such is the life of someone with a serious mental illness.

[santa]

A borderline is in perpetual mental chaos, in that sufferers feel all emotions intensely, but have learned to keep a lid on it to function in the world. A sense of calm in their surroundings just lets the emotions run amok in their heads, so they do something to create some chaos to soothe, to feel better. It's a maladaptive coping mechanism; make things on the outside chaotic to deal with things on the inside. There are obviously better ways, like meditation, but that would take a strong commitment to healing, it's a tough road for a sufferer, plus the chaos has the benefit of keeping you on edge and trashing your self esteem, to control you so you won't leave. As counterintuitive as that is, such is the life of someone with a serious mental illness.

Perfect explanation.

[Ironmanrises]

A pwBPD learned from an early age that love equals pain. BPD is a disorder of intimacy. Hence a pwBPD learned in childhood that anything good and lasting meant pain; thus the defense mechanism triggered by intimacy/closeness reveals the other side to them, the destroyer of that. Thus, that other side destroys via chaos the very intimacy and closeness and love the pwBPD most desires. We unfortunately get caught in that very blast zone. 

[myself]

Many of us here are afraid of instability. Yet many of us stayed in very unstable relationships thinking we could fix them. That we could change things by trying to stabalize the other person, not ourselves. This is seen by the pwBPD as controlling (they're right), which triggers more instability. Whoever fears this, how do they react? Do they do more harm or good? Is there more balance after they have acted, or less?

[santa]

Many of us here are afraid of instability. Yet many of us stayed in very unstable relationships thinking we could fix them. That we could change things by trying to stabalize the other person, not ourselves. This is seen by the pwBPD as controlling (they're right), which triggers more instability. Whoever fears this, how do they react? Do they do more harm or good? Is there more balance after they have acted, or less?

I think the trap is that their problems really are easily solved to a regular person. Take a reasonable person and present your solutions to them and it'll make perfect sense. So, it all makes sense to you and it seems easy. The difference is that they don't think like normal people do. They have to have chaos all the time. If there's a good resolution to something, they'll just find an even bigger problem for you to deal with. It's like they sabotage their own life over and over and over again just to test you to see if you can fix it... .and they have to undermine everything you do along the way just to make it more difficult.

Ultimately, you can't succeed (because no one can) and then they were right all along about you.

[Perfidy]

Many of us here are afraid of instability. Yet many of us stayed in very unstable relationships thinking we could fix them. That we could change things by trying to stabalize the other person, not ourselves. This is seen by the pwBPD as controlling (they're right), which triggers more instability. Whoever fears this, how do they react? Do they do more harm or good? Is there more balance after they have acted, or less?

I didn't stay for her. I stayed for me. Before there was her, there was me.

[musicfan42]

Many of us here are afraid of instability. Yet many of us stayed in very unstable relationships thinking we could fix them. That we could change things by trying to stabalize the other person, not ourselves. This is seen by the pwBPD as controlling (they're right), which triggers more instability. Whoever fears this, how do they react? Do they do more harm or good? Is there more balance after they have acted, or less?

I didn't stay for her. I stayed for me. Before there was her, there was me.

I don't understand what you mean Perfidy when you say "I stayed for me. Before there was her, there was me". Can you clarify this statement?

[fromheeltoheal]

Many of us here are afraid of instability. Yet many of us stayed in very unstable relationships thinking we could fix them. That we could change things by trying to stabalize the other person, not ourselves. This is seen by the pwBPD as controlling (they're right), which triggers more instability. Whoever fears this, how do they react? Do they do more harm or good? Is there more balance after they have acted, or less?

There's some credence to this, although a borderline can have traits of a child, and children not only need discipline and order, they crave it. I played that role well, but the fact that she couldn't show up as an equal was one of the reasons I left. The other one was the part of the instability that manifested as infidelity, unacceptable.

But you're right, humans need a level of certainty, different for everyone. The only certainty and stability I could find at the end were the ones I created for myself by leaving.

[Perfidy]

Many of us here are afraid of instability. Yet many of us stayed in very unstable relationships thinking we could fix them. That we could change things by trying to stabalize the other person, not ourselves. This is seen by the pwBPD as controlling (they're right), which triggers more instability. Whoever fears this, how do they react? Do they do more harm or good? Is there more balance after they have acted, or less?

I didn't stay for her. I stayed for me. Before there was her, there was me.

I don't understand what you mean Perfidy when you say "I stayed for me. Before there was her, there was me". Can you clarify this statement?

 

It's self explanatory. When you understand yourself it will need no clarification.

[Perfidy]

As are most things in life. I'm ready. I'm ready to move on. I thought about buying a casket today. I'm good with that. I accept it. I've already buried my favorite people. I love you all. I love myself. One of the most natural things I can ever do is die. I welcome the change.

[musicfan42]

a borderline can have traits of a child, and children not only need discipline and order, they crave it.

I felt that my BPD ex liked playing the role of rebel. He liked having alternative views on many different issues. He didn't want to go to conventional therapy but he'd go to alternative therapies instead. He didn't want to take his medication but pot was okay as far as he was concerned. He once told me that he could relate more to the underdog than people doing well... .that he had sympathy for homeless people etc. I think he felt like an underdog himself- that people didn't understand him so his rebellious behavior was his way of saying "fck you" to what he saw as a cruel and uncaring world full of horrible people.

And I think he wanted someone to rescue him... that if someone kept rescuing him, then it would prove that they loved him and that if they didn't rescue him, then they were "cruel" in his eyes.

I don't think he wanted someone to discipline him... he hated being told what to do. He wanted to be indulged... to be spoilt... to be told how amazing he was, to be able to do whatever he felt like... to rage, to have sex whenever he felt like it... not to have to compromise on anything... just basically be a brat really. There's very few people out there who are emotionally mature... .who have any kind of self-awareness. It takes a lot of work to be a mature individual and I think some people would rather take the easy way out than actually be responsible for themselves.

[Perfidy]

I'm bored. I have done just about everything. I have loved beyond compare. What else is there? I'm not angry. I'm not jealous. Have you ever landed an aircraft? Have you done everything that you ever wanted to? What else is there? Been there. Done that.

[fromheeltoheal]

I don't think he wanted someone to discipline him... he hated being told what to do. He wanted to be indulged... to be spoilt... to be told how amazing he was, to be able to do whatever he felt like... to rage, to have sex whenever he felt like it... not to have to compromise on anything... just basically be a brat really. There's very few people out there who are emotionally mature... .who have any kind of self-awareness. It takes a lot of work to be a mature individual and I think some people would rather take the easy way out than actually be responsible for themselves.

Yes, taking the path of least resistance is standard human. People mature not because we set out to do the work, but because we end up needing to based on circumstances, and some people can get away with not growing up for a long time. Kids rebel at discipline too, especially teenagers, which is where mine was stuck emotionally, but under the rebellion they crave the order that comes with discipline.

[TakingWingAtLast]

As are most things in life. I'm ready. I'm ready to move on. I thought about buying a casket today. I'm good with that. I accept it. I've already buried my favorite people. I love you all. I love myself. One of the most natural things I can ever do is die. I welcome the change.

Perfidy,

I'm concerned about you.  Are you saying that you feel suicidal here?   If so, perhaps you should call a hot line.   1-800-273-8255 for the US.

You have written so many insightful things here!   So, I know you have much to life for!   Please be well.   Message me if you need to talk further or more deeply.

Yours,

D

[Findingmysong723]

As are most things in life. I'm ready. I'm ready to move on. I thought about buying a casket today. I'm good with that. I accept it. I've already buried my favorite people. I love you all. I love myself. One of the most natural things I can ever do is die. I welcome the change.

Perfidy, are you okay? If your just stating that you are happy in where you are in life, that's great but if it is more than that, we hope you can go talk to someone.

[Perfidy]

It's passing. It's normal. I had hoped I wouldn't feel this way again. I was warned. When I started feeling better it would come back. I didn't believe it. I am not even depressed. That's the scariest part. They say this is normal? I haven't made any kind of attempt. Just stupid thoughts. Planning again. I recognize it and I know what to do. Resources... .I'm aware.

I stayed too long. I'm hoping my story will help others. I hope no one else gets dragged down as low as I have been. I have so much to be grateful for. I have a family that loves me. I won't hurt them.

I'm strong. I never wanted to be this strong. I hope my heart doesn't become hard and bitter. Love stinks. All I ever wanted to do was love

[LilMissSunshine]

Hey Perfidy you sure your okay?  Just reading this thread and you got me all kinds of worried.  Know that "your story" is helping me - tremendously.  Don't wanna sound selfish but I need to keep reading your post's, here on this board.  Sorry.  Someone once told me I had a difficult time "detaching" or something     

[Perfidy]

Yes... lms... I'm ok. It's been one hell of a bumpy ride.

[LilMissSunshine]

I know hon.  For me too.  Sent you a msg.  Pls check it out... .I promise you'll feel btr.  

[schwing]

I've been reflecting on my past relationship recently. Why I stayed, what I let some things go, what I'll do/change next time and I've bene thinking about her behavior as well. One thing that really stood out was that if we were having a good day, or few days, or week (the good times never lasted more than a week) she would say/ do something to bring chaos and drama back into the relationship. ALWAYS. If things were stable in her work/school/family and our relationship she'd do something to at least have chaos in one of those aspects of her life.

What is it? do they fear stablitiy? Is it something foreign to them?

It's not that they fear stability.  Rather, they crave the intimacy of an attachment but at the same time do not realize that the intimacy they crave is also the trigger for their disordered fear of abandonment.  My understanding is that this disorder develops from a psychological trauma at an early age for the pwBPD; an age when they were supposed to form (and internalize) intimate bonds (i.e. parents/guardians/etc... ).  And this trauma resulted in a kind of early childhood PTSD.  So psychologically they "want" to progress past this stage of emotional development, but because of the PTSD; all the aspects of this development only ends up re-triggering their trauma.

So they want to cultivate intimacy in a relationship.  They want to form strong emotional bonds.  But the feelings that are stirred by these bonds also cause the chaos in their minds that they are going to be "abandoned", "betrayed" or "denigrated" (again) just as they did in their original trauma; they re-live the trauma in a sense -- only this time, they imagine us as the one who will abandon or betray them.  *THIS* is why chaos almost always follows the "best of times."

How could someone advocate being 'at peace' and wanting love in their life yet be the sole contributor of chaos to it?

Bpd is seriously sad and my a pieace of my heart goes to them.

From our perspective they are the "sole contributor" of the chaos.  But from their perspective, we are the ones who are going to abandon and/or betray them.  Because they have not yet come to terms with their earliest trauma -- in fact, they may have suppressed it deep into their psyche and are in full denial of this pain.  So they choose to blame us for their pain.

My 2 bits,

Schwing

[myself]

So they choose to blame us for their pain.

You're saying this is intentional?

Are pwBPD incapable of acting differently, or do they not do so on purpose? 

They know there are alternate options. They could see a T and try to face their pains productively. What keeps them from changing? They just choose not to? I understand it goes back into the original wiring, but they're adults now, and they knew better. They could have done less damage. They can't see this, or have decided not to?

[fromheeltoheal]

So they choose to blame us for their pain.

You're saying this is intentional?

Are pwBPD incapable of acting differently, or do they not do so on purpose?  

They know there are alternate options. They could see a T and try to face their pains productively. What keeps them from changing? They just choose not to? I understand it goes back into the original wiring, but they're adults now, and they knew better. They could have done less damage. They can't see this, or have decided not to?

My borderline ex was fully aware of the impact she'd had on people and felt a lot of shame around it, even saying things like "I've hurt a lot of people" and "I've done a lot of bad things".  Thing is she had absolutely no idea why.  Whatever happened back there in childhood was buried in her subconscious, she certainly never talked to me about it, and I get the feeling she couldn't articulate it if she tried.  She moved out of her parents house and in with her grandparents when she was 12, and any details surrounding that were sketchy, even to her.

So her solution, which had worked for decades, was to keep chasing that shiny new object, that new knight in shining armor, that savior, and she's got the skills and the looks to land who she wants, and when that doesn't work out, it never does, she's off to a new one.  She's getting a little older now, it's not as easy, and she's having panic attacks to the point her children need to walk her around the block to calm her down, and she's gobbling Xanax.  The wheels are coming off the old methods, which will cause her to look for new ones, maybe therapy, maybe suicide, who knows, but really she's doing what we all do, looking for the path of least resistance and doing what works.  And she's a little remorseful that she's hurt a lot of people, but to her no one hurts as much as she does, which justifies it for her.  On to the next... .

[Turkish]

 it almost always goes back to FOO  issues.  mine mirrored what she knew,  even though she knew it was wrong.  She convinced herself I  was her father and she was her mother,  but in reality it was the reverse.  She was the abusive,  and ultimately.  the cheater and abandoner.  She liked stability,  but it triggered deep seated unhappiness.

[damage control]

It's not that they fear stability.  Rather, they crave the intimacy of an attachment but at the same time do not realize that the intimacy they crave is also the trigger for their disordered fear of abandonment. 

So they want to cultivate intimacy in a relationship.  They want to form strong emotional bonds.  But the feelings that are stirred by these bonds also cause the chaos in their minds that they are going to be "abandoned", "betrayed" or "denigrated" (again) just as they did in their original trauma; they re-live the trauma in a sense --

This is exactly it. The desperation to find someone who will actually 'see' those terrible bits inside (that must have been what made everybody else leave) and still stay.

But, unable to choose a partner who is capable of staying ... or ... worse, if they do stay, they become de-fetishised because they no are no longer the person/people who abandoned in childhood (because, if they were that person, they would leave/abandon). The paradox is real. The flight response is real. The feeling that love means (unfulfilled) longing is also real.

[Iamdizzy]

good posts on here 

I agree with the idea that they do recognize the pain they cause others. My BPDex stated many times that she has hurt people as well as being "bad for others & that there's nothing good about her". My BPDex also used many 'one-liners' to purposly hurt me and her famous 'one-liners' that she used on me, was used on her past boyfriends because she knew it hurt. I think, and these are just my 2 cents, that they do know they hurt others. They just can't handle it because they can;t even handle small inconviences in their lives.

[Perfidy]

I tried to tell her that, iamdizzy. I told her that she hurts the ones that love her the most. She knew. Pointless. She just stared off into space with a blank look on her face. She acted like she didn't care. I don't think she did. Then I reflect it back on myself. I know this is wrong but I felt like I wasn't worth caring about. It's the way her illness affected me. I still feel that way. She seemed to go out of her way to cause as much damage as she could. She knew I loved her and she knew she could hurt me and she did every chance she got. I gave  her everything. Took care of her. I am worth caring about. Most women would die for what I gave her. I think I deserve better.