Admitting That You Were Abused; And Changing Your Thoughts

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I know this is a recurring topic, but I have been struggling in the FOG this past week, maybe because she is more engaged with our children now, not being "teen mom" anymore.

For anyone new here, my X has been conducting an affair out of my home that I have been generously letting her live in for the past 3+ months, mostly because of the kids involved and lack of legal custody (seeing another lawyer tomorrow to get it going). That, and I am not a cruel man, though she deserves little mercy and kindness. I still show it even if it is not reciprocated.

I realized that at the very least, this is massive emotional and psychological abuse. It would be worse if I hadn't at least put down SOME boundaries. Add to that the cyclical verbal and mental abuse most of our relationship and I start to feel guilty for thinking of it as "abuse" as if I am being beaten by a drunk woman every day (I know a few of you have, and I am sorry, I know it could be worse).

Then I reverse our gender roles and any doubt that I had whatsoever goes away.

I had a long conversation about this with a friend yesterday, when I was deep in the doldrums. He said I should stop focusing on the guy (I know, I know!). He said, "what if your X was a man, and the other person was a young college co-ed (which is the other "man's" age)? What would you opinion be of her?"

I got it as he was saying it, and answered, "I'd think she was just a stupid, naive little girl." He then said, "what young woman is going to resist some somewhat older, hot guy coming onto her like that? She/he has no idea what the comittment level and responsibility it takes to have a family, though she/he might find out later when they have kids themselves. At this point, yes, they are pretty much naive and dumb." (no slams on our college age Ambassador, he seems like a very smart dude... . and I was way further along in life at that age, too. Nor any of you young pups who have painfully found your ways here).

He offered that it was obvious that this whole situation was eating me up and I was being consumed by it. Sure, it's tough living with her still, and I still am making pretty much ALL of the adult legal and financial decisions in this, by virtue of HER choices. But he said to just think of her as the woman who bore you children and happens to be their mother, nothing more.

That sounds harsh, but I am going to give it a try. It's just hard right now, given that I am at the point of thinking of her behavior as flat out disgusting, in addition to being abusive. Resisting the urge to check her FB, because I don't think I could hold back slamming her publically. Need to be... . The Adult.

[Turkish]

I know this is a recurring topic, but I have been struggling in the FOG this past week, maybe because she is more engaged with our children now, not being "teen mom" anymore.

For anyone new here, my X has been conducting an affair out of my home that I have been generously letting her live in for the past 3+ months, mostly because of the kids involved and lack of legal custody (seeing another lawyer tomorrow to get it going). That, and I am not a cruel man, though she deserves little mercy and kindness. I still show it even if it is not reciprocated.

I realized that at the very least, this is massive emotional and psychological abuse. It would be worse if I hadn't at least put down SOME boundaries. Add to that the cyclical verbal and mental abuse most of our relationship and I start to feel guilty for thinking of it as "abuse" as if I am being beaten by a drunk woman every day (I know a few of you have, and I am sorry, I know it could be worse).

Then I reverse our gender roles and any doubt that I had whatsoever goes away.

I had a long conversation about this with a friend yesterday, when I was deep in the doldrums. He said I should stop focusing on the guy (I know, I know!). He said, "what if your X was a man, and the other person was a young college co-ed (which is the other "man's" age)? What would you opinion be of her?"

I got it as he was saying it, and answered, "I'd think she was just a stupid, naive little girl." He then said, "what young woman is going to resist some somewhat older, hot guy coming onto her like that? She/he has no idea what the comittment level and responsibility it takes to have a family, though she/he might find out later when they have kids themselves. At this point, yes, they are pretty much naive and dumb." (no slams on our college age Ambassador, he seems like a very smart dude... . and I was way further along in life at that age, too. Nor any of you young pups who have painfully found your ways here).

He offered that it was obvious that this whole situation was eating me up and I was being consumed by it. Sure, it's tough living with her still, and I still am making pretty much ALL of the adult legal and financial decisions in this, by virtue of HER choices. But he said to just think of her as the woman who bore you children and happens to be their mother, nothing more.

That sounds harsh, but I am going to give it a try. It's just hard right now, given that I am at the point of thinking of her behavior as flat out disgusting, in addition to being abusive. Resisting the urge to check her FB, because I don't think I could hold back slamming her publically. Need to be... . The Adult.

[love4meNOTu]

Turkish-

I think you should do whatever you need to do to get through this in one piece. I don't care how you do it just do it.

Yes, she is abusive. Yes, her actions are shameful.

You did nothing to deserve this. You did not fail at marriage.

I have spent the last four days changing my thoughts about myself. Not about my xhwBPD. I spent a lot of time telling myself that it's gonna be ok. Be gentle with you.

So my new mantra, and I'd like to share it with you is this:

In the end everything will be ok, and if it's not ok, it's not the end.

Blessings,

L

[Turkish]

Turkish-

I think you should do whatever you need to do to get through this in one piece. I don't care how you do it just do it.

Yes, she is abusive. Yes, her actions are shameful.

You did nothing to deserve this. You did not fail at marriage./

I have spent the last four days changing my thoughts about myself. Not about my xhwBPD. I spent a lot of time telling myself that it's gonna be ok. Be gentle with you.

So my new mantra, and I'd like to share it with you is this:

In the end everything will be ok, and if it's not ok, it's not the end.

Blessings,

L

Thanks, L. I  smiled at that

I  saw my tax guy today.  I've actually never met him,  one of his contractors does  mine.  the guy talked to me for an hour and twenty minutes,  after I  started opening about what was going on.  gave me really sage financial advice. I  asked how much I owed him.  he said, " well... . ,  just send me another referral, "  then shook my hand. I  felt much better and appreciated his kindness.

[love4meNOTu]

There are amazing, kind and beautiful people out there.

We forget that sometimes because we've been hurt so badly.

I think you have so much strength. Proud to know ya on these boards.

L

[thisyoungdad]

Admitting we were/are abused as men especially is a tough thing both to swallow for ourselves but to admit to another person, I think. At least to admit in person, not our therapist and not online. That is my opinion. Especially while still dealing with any level of B.S from the ex.

I have recently had to start thinking of my ex as the woman who gave me my daughter and as her mother and not much else either. We don't live together but we live a couple blocks apart and I am admittedly (by many folks) the "parent" and she is the "fun weekend parent" and so it really helps to continually remind myself to look at her that way. It helps when I can remember to do that although was really sad for me for a while.

[arn131arn]

I hate it.  I hate that this silent abuse to a man is unacceptable in today's society.

I have 2 DV convictions for defending myself.  I have never raised a hand to a woman in my life.  Pushing someone out of a doorway when they are throwing hiting missiles at you or restraining someone who is punching, kicking or biting you is NOT violence!

It sucks, but I was abused.  The latest was a 6 month long torture chamber of the silent treatment.  I was homicidal/suicidal at the end of August. I would have rather been smacked with a 2x4 or frying pan.  It killed me... . so I medicated.

I want to take the power of my life back, I want to become a happy person again, I want to teach my son that this behavior is unacceptable in any realtionship. 

Victims never get free.  My exBPD fiancee was always the victim, therefore, she will never get free.  She will live her life in constant pain, denial and chaos because of this.

I am NOT a victim

[Octoberfest]

I had a long conversation about this with a friend yesterday, when I was deep in the doldrums. He said I should stop focusing on the guy (I know, I know!). He said, "what if your X was a man, and the other person was a young college co-ed (which is the other "man's" age)? What would you opinion be of her?"

I got it as he was saying it, and answered, "I'd think she was just a stupid, naive little girl." He then said, "what young woman is going to resist some somewhat older, hot guy coming onto her like that? She/he has no idea what the comittment level and responsibility it takes to have a family, though she/he might find out later when they have kids themselves. At this point, yes, they are pretty much naive and dumb." (no slams on our college age Ambassador, he seems like a very smart dude... . and I was way further along in life at that age, too. Nor any of you young pups who have painfully found your ways here).

Thanks  

I think your friend made a very good point, and conveyed it in a very eloquent way. The truth is, I don't think ANYONE has any idea of what they are in for when they get involved with a pwBPD.  I don't think anyone can truly grasp what they are about to deal with... . and by the time you roll around to realizing what you have been living through, you are so far down the rabbit hole it takes everything in you to claw your way out. Given that, think what chance any young 20-something who knows jack all about the world stands in the face of what seems to be a knight in shining armor or a princess in white... . to compound things,  I don't know that I have ever heard of a Non who has been involved with a pwBPD who has found it easy to walk away. It seems to be a common trait that, once we are hooked, we are hooked GOOD.

Turkish, don't beat yourself up man.  I think a pretty common piece of post-relationship advice, for relationships even where there isn't mental illness involved is "get out and do something that takes your mind off it".  I think this would be VERY hard to do when you are living with your ex and get constant reminders of her transgressions (i.e. the man she is cheating on you with calling her at the dinner table). I think you are making as good as of progress as you can be given the circumstances.  I think it is normal to obsess and to look at the other people involved... . personally I have found that my mindset and my path through therapy followed a very clear progression.  It started with all of my thoughts and my sadness and my anger concerning my BPDex. Slowly, as I waded through the painful memories and started to accept them, I shifted to looking within more and more.  To asking myself "why".  Why did I put up with as much as I did, why did I justify the things she did, why did I stay for as long as I did? They are all really uncomfortable questions, but if we are to break from the path we have been on we must ask them.  It is because pwBPD NEVER ask these questions that they remain stuck permanently in their rut... . doing the same things over and over, because it is so much easier to blame someone else than to acknowledge your own role in something. This is not to say that any of us "deserved" what we got.  But it is my opinion that in many cases we serve as enablers.  I know I did.

Admitting we were/are abused as men especially is a tough thing both to swallow for ourselves and to admit to another person, I think. At least to admit in person, not our therapist and not online. That is my opinion. Especially while still dealing with any level of B.S from the ex.

I have recently had to start thinking of my ex as the woman who gave me my daughter and as her mother and not much else either. We don't live together but we live a couple blocks apart and I am admittedly (by many folks) the "parent" and she is the "fun weekend parent" and so it really helps to continually remind myself to look at her that way. It helps when I can remember to do that although was really sad for me for a while.

I agree here.  For the longest time I was bogged down in my "failure".  My failure to save my BPDex.  That I couldn't get through to her, I couldn't reach her and make her see she was safe and that she didn't need to go and cheat and lie.  I took those burdens on as though they were my own, as though I was the reason she did those things... .  In a way I think that was more comfortable than to think the only person I have ever loved would abuse me, betray me, take advantage of me, and otherwise mistreat me.

[thisyoungdad]

I agree with Octoberfest that accepting that the only woman I ever loved, or thought I loved, would mistreat me, abuse me, betray me or take advantage of me was so difficult to grasp. It just isn't an easy road.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey arn and thisyoungdad, I think it's fair to say that most men are afraid or embarrassed to admit that they have been abused by a female, particularly one's spouse or SO, which is why BPD is so insidious -- it's under the radar and men are reluctant to speak out about it.  Yet physical and psychological abuse by a pwBPD happens all the time, to men and women, as confirmed by those on these boards.  It seems like a shameful secret for many Nons, particularly males, yet the more it can be brought out into the open, the better, in my view.  LJ

[State85]

It seems like a shameful secret for many Nons, particularly males, yet the more it can be brought out into the open, the better, in my view.  LJ

I've had no problem talking about it. Not to my friends or family. But, I had a police officer come to my house just to cover myself should this happen again, for documentation. He asked why I did not call them, I did not answer. What I wanted to say was "You would have taken me to jail, before her". Because I know she would have faked some injury, or cried, or whatever... . and I'd be cuffed. She knew this. This is why she had no problem abusing me either verbally or physicall, or damaging my property... . when inside my house.

[GaGrl]

The truth is, I don't think ANYONE has any idea of what they are in for when they get involved with a pwBPD.  I don't think anyone can truly grasp what they are about to deal with... . and by the time you roll around to realizing what you have been living through, you are so far down the rabbit hole it takes everything in you to claw your way out. Given that, think what chance any young 20-something who knows jack all about the world stands in the face of what seems to be a knight in shining armor or a princess in white... . to compound things,  I don't know that I have ever heard of a Non who has been involved with a pwBPD who has found it easy to walk away. It seems to be a common trait that, once we are hooked, we are hooked GOOD.

This was true for my DH as he began to deal with the circumstances in his first marriage.  He married while posted in Thailand during the Vietnam War -- both he and his uNPD/BPD bride were very young (22 and 17).  She was smart but minimally educated (equivalent of a U.S. elementary school education), and there were significant cultural differences on top of her behaviors.  He attributed the behaviors ("temper tantrums" a la rages, blunt statements that no one had ever said no to her, excessive and irrational jealousy) to immaturity and believed that bringing her to the U.S. and helping her learn English, and being in a good, Christian marriage, would help her.  My DH definitely saw himself as the knight in shining armor/hero -- she definitely saw him as her ticket to the U.S. and a better financial future (very much in line with her cultural values of improving her status and station in life, as well as being able to contribute to her family's betterment).

Move forward about 18 months, following many nights of practicing English at the kitchen table, and she was feeling pretty confident.  The affairs started then and never stopped.  DH is not sure his oldest child is his bio son.  She was so blatant at one Army post that he lost a command (and she didn't believe it was her fault until another officer's wife told her it really was).  After she finally moved out, her final humiliation was to own/operate an Asian massage parlor (yes, the kind with happy ending) in the same city -- DH was always afraid he'd get a call one night that she had been arrested for prostitution.  She has, over the years, been arrestted several times for physically attacking her boyfriends or threatening them with a gun. And yet -- through it all, as bad as it was -- DH felt a responsibility for bringing her here, and he knew that she really could not totally function by herself.  She has always kept DH on a weird, sick sort of pedestal, regardless of how bad she treated him.  Even now, since she moved 1500 miles away to live near the adult daughter, we know that she can't function without her live-in BF -- and he's as hooked as DH was all those years.  Now, the responsibility of dealing with her falls on the BF and the adult daughter and 12 year old grandaughter, but we continue to see the fall-out with them.

[Lucky Jim]

I had a police officer come to my house just to cover myself should this happen again, for documentation. He asked why I did not call them, I did not answer. What I wanted to say was "You would have taken me to jail, before her". Because I know she would have faked some injury, or cried, or whatever... . and I'd be cuffed. She knew this. This is why she had no problem abusing me either verbally or physicall, or damaging my property... . when inside my house.

Hey State85, My BPDxW threatened to call the police many times while in one of her altered states of rage, and I knew, as you did, that she could have easily convinced a police officer that she was the one being abused, and I would have been hauled off as you describe.  Once I talked her out of it by saying, "go ahead, the officer will smell the alcohol on your breath just as I can."  Behind closed doors she felt free to go on rampages of verbal and physical abuse, throwing wine bottles and breaking things, to the point that I would have to leave the house and stay at a motel.  LJ

[State85]

LuckyJim

I hear ya. When inside, they rage on. My ex would even embarass me outside, unreal to say the least. I'm still piecing my house back together by replacing doors, plates, holes in the wall, etc. I've done nothing at her house except a small dent in her bedroom door... . man did/does that get brought up continuously. I was never able to leave her house, or get her to leave mine. When at her house, she would physically get in front of me to not let me leave... . this even after yelling at me to leave. If she was at my house, she would not leave... . don't get it at all. CRAZY!

[maxen]

There are amazing, kind and beautiful people out there.

We forget that sometimes because we've been hurt so badly.

if there is any upside to this, it's discovering that the friends i've managed to retain are magnificent people. i might not have found that out otherwise. and my cousins have been generous also. and the network of help i've developed too. these i'll retain for the rest of my life.

I think you have so much strength. Proud to know ya on these boards.

Turkish

I agree with Octoberfest that accepting that the only woman I ever loved, or thought I loved, would mistreat me, abuse me, betray me or take advantage of me was so difficult to grasp. It just isn't an easy road.

not easy, not short either. my mind is wrecked thinking that the woman i exchanged vows with would do what she did and with such arrogance and selfishness.

[GaGrl]

Be prepared for a perhaps extended period of adjustment after full separation.  When my DH and I reconnected and married (we had been in love as teenagers, 35 years before), he was still experiencing symptoms of PTSD.  It definitely took a year or so for him to quit reacting to things I would NEVER have thought would trigger him to be defensive or to stress out.

All is fine now.  Believe me, there are healthy relationships waiting out there.  I am so grateful that my DH and I found our way to each other.

[Turkish]

Be prepared for a perhaps extended period of adjustment after full separation.  When my DH and I reconnected and married (we had been in love as teenagers, 35 years before), he was still experiencing symptoms of PTSD.  It definitely took a year or so for him to quit reacting to things I would NEVER have thought would trigger him to be defensive or to stress out.

All is fine now.  Believe me, there are healthy relationships waiting out there.  I am so grateful that my DH and I found our way to each other.

Hi Gagrl... . so DH=divorced husband, who had a wwBPD, but to whom you are married now? sorry, help me out here... . thanks.

[GaGrl]

Be prepared for a perhaps extended period of adjustment after full separation.  When my DH and I reconnected and married (we had been in love as teenagers, 35 years before), he was still experiencing symptoms of PTSD.  It definitely took a year or so for him to quit reacting to things I would NEVER have thought would trigger him to be defensive or to stress out.

All is fine now.  Believe me, there are healthy relationships waiting out there.  I am so grateful that my DH and I found our way to each other.

Hi Gagrl... . so DH=divorced husband, who had a wwBPD, but to whom you are married now? sorry, help me out here... . thanks.

DH is ":)ear Husband" who is divorced from a mid-functioning PD.   Those of you on the Undecided and Leaving boards don't often see the DH and DW designations -- we spouses of nons are usually on the Legal and Parenting boards.  However, sometimes an Undecided or Leaving thread sounds a lot like my husband's experiences with his ex, the uNPD/BPD he called The Dark Princess (way before he knew about PDs).  Now he's pretty much feels sorry for her.

Our story is interesting... . we knew each other as teen neighbors, were in the same church youth group, crazy about each other... but my dad was transferred, and we never quite connected.  We each married and had a family, then reconnected.  If I hadn't heard DH's story from his own lips, I might not be able to believe it -- The Dark Princess was that over-the-top with her infidelities and selfish behavior.  Probably the worst was having her boyfriend in the house while DH was posted 100 miles away and coming home only on weekends -- the 12-year-old daughter walked out of her bedroom one night to see her mother and the BF in flagrante delicto on the living room floor; the daughter then wrote DH a heartbreakding letter in which she listed every man she knew her mother had been unfaithful with.  How can you expose a 12-year-old girl to that?

In the 33 years of their "official" marriage (they were living apart for the last 12-13 years), The Dark Princess apologized once -- looked at DH and said, "Can you ever forgive me?"  That was all he ever got.  The more telling quote was, when confronted with her behavior, "I know it's wrong, and I know it hurts you, but it's what I want to do, so I'm going to do it."

She's going to be a very sad old woman.  Karma is a bhit.

[thisyoungdad]

It has gotten a lot easier for me to talk about, although can still be hard at times. A huge turning point for me was when we been separated for a while but still almost entirely together in terms of life things like contacts for doctors appointments etc. So I had a dentist appoint and the receptionist who kinda knew me called my ex to remind me not knowing we had separated and I don't know what transpired exactly but when I showed up at the appointment the receptionist said to me ":)oes she always treat you like that? And in front of other people too?"... . and I was just speechless. The receptionist knew my ex (who was a patient there but after that never went back) and knew she was a prominent medical doctor across the street. She was just shocked by the way my ex apparently talked down about me. That was a huge moment in that I realized even strangers were seeing her abuse me, and I really could not deny that it was happening anymore even if I wasn't ready to admit to the world yet what was going on. So I started to ask a few friends or tell them that story and they all said the same thing, very empathetically, which was "oh... . she has been abusive in some way from the very start" and I was floored I was the last to see it. Then I felt even more shame before I ever felt less and I realized just how beaten down I really was yet in a way validating that other people saw it even before I did.

[Lucky Jim]

Hi tyd, how often it seems like we Nons are the last to get what other people know all along about our BPD SOs.  Why do we turn a blind eye to things that are obvious to others?  LJ

[Turkish]

Hi tyd, how often it seems like we Nons are the last to get what other people know all along about our BPD SOs.  Why do we turn a blind eye to things that are obvious to others?  LJ

Lost in the FOG of our own needs, perhaps.