Do I just let him leave?

[PacifistMom]

So we've had a very hard time since just before Christmas, If you've read my posts it all has to do with the combo of Christmas, New Year's, his birthday (the other day), all events that always stress him out, but on top of it, his friend moved from cross-country to stay with us right before Christmas.

Now based on this https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=217717.0

he says he can't stay, it's time for us to separate, we've hurt each other too much etc etc. In the past I've always found a way to "save" it ... . usually a beautiful text message or something like that (I'm a writer ), heartfelt, but certainly ignoring pain.

In the past he never left but I feel he might this time because he can't back down with his best friend there.

I have had zero intent to break up - that is why I am here trying to learn how to respond - and I don't want to. But do you think sometimes it's better just to stop responding and let them leave? Or is a beautiful heartfelt message validation? So lost.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[PacifistMom]

I should add - I would have to facilitate the separation since I have a family member staying in "his" condo at present. Do I move ahead with the rearrangement? Leave it a few days? Try to talk to him?

[SleepsOnSofa]

I'm certainly no expert, but I doubt he's really going to follow through on his threat. He might go through the motions to save face in front of the friend, but once the friend leaves, he'll conveniently forget he ever said it, and never bring it up again.

I'm not suggesting you actively facilitate the split, but I wouldn't try to talk him out of it. Call his bluff by doing nothing. If you do try to "help" him break up by making arrangements, he's probably going to remember it down the line as a time when you wanted to break up and took advantage of something he said that he didn't really mean in order to avoid responsibility for your rejection of him.

If he's going to toss around hand grenades like this, I think your best bet is to let them lying on the ground. If you try to talk him out of leaving, you're proving to him that he can manipulate you by threatening to leave you; since he probably fears abandonment more than anything, he assumes that you fear it just as much. On the other hand, if you participate in arrangements to separate, he's going to blame you down the line for wanting to leave him - which is, again, probably the single thing that scares him the most, and which he will be least able to forgive. You can't win this game, so simply refuse to play.

[PacifistMom]

I really appreciate that, SleepsOnSofa, and hope you are right.

But how do I answer when he asks specific questions like about the status of the arrangements (e.g. he asked me to set a date with the sister-in-law who I see every day?)

Insist on my point of view? Which is, I love you and don't think we should make a decision of this magnitude so quickly. How do I insist that without frustrating him when I know that inside [or next week] he loves me he is just hanging on to his ego now (and readily says the whole thing is about pride, but still says, I love you, maybe we`ll fall back in love, etc etc).

I think he needs some big excuse to give to his friend in order to save face on why to stay. Where I am most stuck is - is it manipulation/enabling to do something to "redeem" myself so he has an excuse? Or is it validation?

My heart and my love for him tells me he needs to hear something positive. My brain asks if that's just giving in to another one of his fits.

[waverider]

How do I insist

You dont, you state your reality, once. He will either take it on board or not. Once you try to push a view point he will go into auto defensive rejection of whatever it is you are pushing.

As far as asking your family member to move out, let him do it. You do not have to enable something, then end up feeling bad because you messed your relative around, all for it to turn into nothing.

This is his disruption, let him do the dirty work. It will help bring home the reality of what he is proposing.

[elemental]

I am kind of in a similar situation, from a different angle, of course.

I am totally with waverider. I keep coming back to read what he says 

You said your piece. It's how it is for you. I wouldn't argue with him,  engage with him over drama over what he is trying to mess with your head with.

Just go quiet and about your daily business. If he corners you, excuse yourself from his presence. If you feel you have to answer, simply say that you already were clear on your own feelings and they have not changed.

Today, I am also in the position of telling my truth to my guy. Again. So I decided to stop telling him.  Waverider is right about it putting BPD on the defensive. All it's going to do talking to your husband is get you sucked into JADE and arguing with someone who is upset and wants to keep everything upset because HE is upset.

Then you get to be upset because you got jerked around. It's not nice.


And is it cold where you are? He won't want to move *really* in all that cold.

[PacifistMom]

Thank you all so much for the affirmations. This board is a lifesaver.

Grenades, I like that analogy. Very very helpful.

And elemental, yes it's freezing but he is the opposite of lazy when he puts his mind to something one of many things I love about him (when it's positively applied of course).

[elemental]

I am trying to stay calm, too. Right now I am extremely upset.  So I totally understand how hard a time you are having. You just want to tell them something straightforward and based on common sense, but they are not listening.

[PacifistMom]

Last night seemed calm, he asked about the rent and didn't mention anything about them moving, he also kissed me this morning at my daughter's insistence, so things seem to be looking up. Treading gently and trying to stay calm. Hope your week gets better too elemental. Thank you all for being here! I am so grateful.

[SleepsOnSofa]

How do I insist

As far as asking your family member to move out, let him do it. You do not have to enable something, then end up feeling bad because you messed your relative around, all for it to turn into nothing.

This is his disruption, let him do the dirty work. It will help bring home the reality of what he is proposing.

I know that things seem to be settling down, but I just wanted to say that I totally agree with Waverider on this point. It's your husband's condo, not yours, so he's the landlord. It's his legal responsibility to deal with his tenant, even if there is only a verbal agreement between landlord and tenant, and even if no rent is being paid. (I know all this because we had to go through the motions of evicting my sister-in-law from my mother-in-law's house last summer.) The law is very much on the tenant's side, even if the tenant is a friend or relative who's staying for free. Your husband can't put his tenant out on the street without notice, most likely in writing. In cases without a written lease, most states require 30 days' notice before eviction proceedings can even begin, although you should check the specific laws in your state.

If this comes up again, just leave it to your husband to evict his tenant. Chances are, due to the time lag the law requires, your husband will have plenty of time to cool off and forget he ever demanded a separation before the tenant can be evicted. On the other hand, if the experience of having your husband make eviction noises inspires your family member to seek more stable living arrangements, that just gets you out of the middle.

Even if the current arrangement about the condo was your idea, your intervening in it now just puts you in a no-win situation with both your husband and your relative. The relationship between them is landlord and tenant, and the laws about that relationship are specific, clear, and fully enforceable. Let the housing court handle it if necessary - there's nothing you can do that won't hurt your relationship with both parties.

Of course, if this never comes up again, great. But in my experience with my wife, what's come up once WILL come up again, usually bigger and badder.

[PacifistMom]

Thank you SleepsonSofa. I definitely have no plans to pursue it and if they start getting the rent in on time hopefully it will no longer be an option to him. He likes money and he likes building equity for "free." A second condo where he could go to cool off might be a good solution for all though .

Curious, was the eviction because of your wife or unrelated to BPD?