Leaving the door open: inability to close it entirely?

[Mutt]

Same crap as before or even worse.

I'm curious when you say even worse. Is it because you can see things in a different light happening in the r/s that you didn't see before, due to having learned about the disorder or that the idealization and devaluation phase(s) are quicker?

I found that the at the end of the r/s the gaps between the idealization and devaluation where getting shorter and shorter. Devaluation were really long periods where idealization sometimes could of last for periods of minutes, maybe hours if I was lucky.

Or is it a combination of both?

I have not been recycled. I'm split blacker than black, but I can see how her patterns and why she does what she does. I think it would be a different ballgame the second time around and that's a partial reason as to why I have no interest in going back.

[Moonie75]

Same crap as before or even worse.

I'm curious when you say even worse. Is it because you can see things in a different light happening in the r/s that you didn't see before, due to having learned about the disorder or that the idealization and devaluation phase(s) are quicker?

I found that the at the end of the r/s the gaps between the idealization and devaluation where getting shorter and shorter. Devaluation were really long periods where idealization sometimes could of last for periods of minutes, maybe hours if I was lucky.

Or is it a combination of both?

I have not been recycled. I'm split blacker than black, but I can see how her patterns and why she does what she does. I think it would be a different ballgame the second time around and that's a partial reason as to why I have no interest in going back.

I recycled with my uBPDex 3 times (after break ups lasting roughly 2-3 months).

In our case, yes, the idealization to devaluation cycled through quicker each time.

The idealizations were all about the same in their intensity, but lasted shorter time spans respectively. But each devaluation got more intense & aggressive than the previous ones, and got longer each time!

[Mutt]

The idealizations were all about the same in their intensity, but lasted shorter time spans respectively. But each devaluation got more intense & aggressive than the previous ones, and got longer each time!

I can't say from personal experience. I have never dated the same woman after having broken up with them.

I know what my honeymoon period was like. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't think your going to catch lightning in a bottle twice is the best way to describe it.

That sounds painful Moonie75 when you say that the devaluation is more intense / aggressive than before and longer.

[Waifed]

I got no closure and specifically asked for it even though I broke it off with her!  She couldn't even come close to giving it. Two weeks prior we were having dinner and I told her I was going to leave her because she had cheated. She asked me at that time if I would still see her in the future even if I remarried. Even though I didn't know about BPD I realized I was dealing with a very messed up person.

[Mutt]

I got no closure and specifically asked for it even though I broke it off with her!  She couldn't even come close to giving it. Two weeks prior we were having dinner and I told her I was going to leave her because she had cheated. She asked me at that time if I would still see her in the future even if I remarried. Even though I didn't know about BPD I realized I was dealing with a very messed up person.

Her words after 8 years.

Mutt, I'm leaving you. I'm moving on. It's time to move forward. You never know. Maybe someday we'll get marrried again.

Moving on meant that she was confident that r/s she was having with replacement was ready to come out in the open. It's that we'll get married again bit that threw me off.

[glacier_glider]

Mutt,

It is both and more.

More: I was not expecting to have a real relationship with her. I went there for two main reasons:

1) To really find out her side of the breakup and post-breakup story that took place a year ago (we all had so many questions here about closure, whether or not they miss us, what they think about us, etc).

2) To have occasional sex with someone who I practically trained to become my personal porn star (sorry, this is harsh).

Their intuition is amazing, so she immediately sensed that. But, unlike before, I stayed firm and sneaky. She couldn't do her regular guilt trips and other crap with me. She could, but she saw that it no longer worked. So she put more intensity into both, idealization and devaluation.

I also was brutally honest about my relationships with other (27) women within that NC period. She almost exploded and died when she searched through my underwear drawer and found a thong that one of the chicks left as a souvenir. She also went through my phone and saw tons of new phone numbers with female names attached to them. She did all this when I was smoking a cig downstairs or taking a shower.

In other words, she realized that she needed to put more effort in order to get me back, yet she would rage even more as a result.

[Mutt]

Mutt,

It is both and more.

More: I was not expecting to have a real relationship with her. I went there for two main reasons:

1) To really find out her side of the breakup and post-breakup story that took place a year ago (we all had so many questions here about closure, whether or not they miss us, what they think about us, etc).

2) To have occasional sex with someone who I practically trained to become my personal porn star (sorry, this is harsh).

Their intuition is amazing, so she immediately sensed that. But, unlike before, I stayed firm and sneaky. She couldn't do her regular guilt trips and other crap with me. She could, but she saw that it no longer worked. So she put more intensity into both, idealization and devaluation.

I also was brutally honest about my relationships with other (27) women within that NC period. She almost exploded and died when she searched through my underwear drawer and found a thong that one of the chicks left as a souvenir. She also went through my phone and saw tons of new phone numbers with female names attached to them. She did all this when I was smoking a cig downstairs or taking a shower.

In other words, she realized that she needed to put more effort in order to get me back, yet she would rage even more as a result.

Uncomfortably_Numb,

I'm understanding why these r/s are more intense because of the lack of control from the ex the second time around, and the escalation with idealization and evaluation.

I'm not being judgemental. Understanding that my ex has the capacity to distort and lie. I don't think I could get much truth from her as to what she was thinking when she left or what was going on in my absense. I can understand, curiosity.

Having said that, do you think you where sticking it to her in more ways than one? Pun intended.

[glacier_glider]

Having said that, do you think you where sticking it to her in more ways than one? Pun intended.

What exactly do you mean, Bro?

Send me a PM and I'll explain.

My mission being second time around here is to answer some of the questions for those who are "freshly" heart and to deliver the "NO VICTIM" message.

The rest is very individual.

As many people say, BPDs are people and are unique. I agree. I came across two last year. But it took less than one date to figure that out.

IMHO, to us, the people who were close and have experienced the full-blown BPD beauty, they are more obvious than to a trained professional who has never gone through the "ultimate closeness".

Some of my hair turned gray and I aged prematurely just trying to be there and resolve all the problems. I had no idea about BPD.

[Mutt]

To really find out her side of the breakup and post-breakup story that took place a year ago (we all had so many questions here about closure, whether or not they miss us, what they think about us, etc).

Your correct. I don't know the pretext to your story.

I do understand the motivation above, curiosity.

I also was brutally honest about my relationships with other (27) women within that NC period. She almost exploded and died when she searched through my underwear drawer and found a thong that one of the chicks left as a souvenir. She also went through my phone and saw tons of new phone numbers with female names attached to them. She did all this when I was smoking a cig downstairs or taking a shower.

This motivation is anger.

Why did you give her an exact number of how many people you slept with?

Isn't it convenient that she found women's underwear and phone numbers from conquests?

Why didn't you hide the thongs and lock the phone?

My mission being second time around here is to answer some of the questions for those who are "freshly" heart and to deliver the "NO VICTIM" message.

Was it revenge that motivated you?

[glacier_glider]

Mutt, NO!

The only and the best revenge is to ignore HER.

Maybe worse than that - not to be with HER.

Why would I lock my phone in my own house? I've never had anyone going through my contacts.

The thongs were hidden under a pile of my underwear in a drawer.

The number? It was not about the number. It was about delivering the fact that I was not suffering here while she was "having a good time", which she wasn't. I've read enough to understand that BPD women don't really enjoy sex to full extent as normal women would. They are missing the real intimacy part.

Anger? It's here. But I treated her well, even this time around.

Better anger than self-pity.

If I were angry, I wouldn't be able to attract other women, would I?

[Mutt]

If I were angry, I wouldn't be able to attract other women, would I?

I had anger from my FOO. That didn't stop me from attracting my ex.

[glacier_glider]

I had anger from my FOO. That didn't stop me from attracting my ex.

What's "FOO"?

What's wrong with attracting your ex?

The question is about not being angry and in this whole ex-thingy to be able to attract other women.

[arn131arn]

Ex still has everything at my home. She left everything when she moved out 5 months ago. My bogus restraining order hearing is a week from tomorrow. I really don't care how it goes. I have an atty who is defending it yet either way I don't really care. As long as it doesnt include my son, I'm fine. So when the judge's verdict comes down, I'm just going to ask her to please order to come pick up everything. I was even nice enough to bag it ALL up for her!

[glacier_glider]

arn131arn, good for you, Bro!

[Mutt]

What's "FOO"?

Family of Origin

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=26601.0

What's wrong with attracting your ex?

My FOO issues and codepency attracted me to my uBPDex. That r/s is not something I wish to repeat again.  

The question is about not being angry and in this whole ex-thingy to be able to attract other women.

You are correct.  

Speaking for myself, there's more than repressed anger to the equation that I choose to work on, so I don't repeat the same mistake again.

[glacier_glider]

Speaking for myself, there's more than repressed anger to the equation that I choose to work on, so I don't repeat the same mistake again.

I tent not to over think this. I've lost a lot of me during those years with her. And happy to report that I am still me in most part, except I am less sensitive and motivated. Also, have become indifferent to some things. Have become cynical too.

That I don't like.

Otherwise, I am fine with repeating my mistakes. I've done it more than once. 

[Mutt]

Speaking for myself, there's more than repressed anger to the equation that I choose to work on, so I don't repeat the same mistake again.

I tent not to over think this. I've lost a lot of me during those years with her. And happy to report that I am still me in most part, except I am less sensitive and motivated. Also, have become indifferent to some things. Have become cynical too.

That I don't like.

Otherwise, I am fine with repeating my mistakes. I've done it more than once.  

To err is human. I forgive myself and I'll make mistakes again, that's being human. I saw from the get-go with her and I choose to ignore them all. I choose now to not ignore my intuition. An 8 year r/s with a PD and kids with her was a pretty big mistake. Don't get me wrong, the silver lining are my 3 beautiful kids and the gift of the borderline. Co-parenting after being painted black is extremely difficult. I'll take over-thinking hands-down anyday than having to deal with another person like her in my life.

I have to deal with her emotional fall-out w/ the kids and I'm fine with that. But, I'm confident enough in myself with the work that I have done and continue to do, it will better my chances in not falling into the rabbit hole again.  I deserve to be happy and  I don't want to be subserviant to another abusive partner.

I can honestly say, with this year-long break that I too, and I chose to take another break for a year, so 2 in total. I'm starting to feel better, I'm grieving the r/s and I'm learning about what I brought to the table with a PD. If I hadn't of done what I've done, again I'm speaking for myself, I may of fallen for another abusive personality. I don't have regrets with my choices after the r/s ended with uBPDex.

[7minds]

How do you close the door entirely when you have family that you've gathered with for 36 years, holidays, birthdays etc. Do you still get together as family? Do you leave the ex, father, grandfather out? Does that send a mixed signal if you still gather for holidays? Can they handle that? My family is suffering greatly.

[Mutt]

Hi 7minds,



36 years is a longtime. Do you mean the ex inlaws?

[7minds]

We always gathered both sides of family, his and mine for holidays. That may be unusual for most families. How can you continue a tradition like that? Do we both attend family functions even though we are detaching? I guess you just develop new coping skills for the sake of your family. Accept things for what they are, adapt.

[Mutt]

I don't think there's a right or wrong 7minds. Every member on this board has someone in their lives with a diagnosed ex or an ex with traits. It is a spectrum disorder. Some are less / more ill than others. From my personal experience mine is too ill and it doesn't work. That said, you know your ex and both families better than anyone on these boards. Is the r/s one that is very toxic, more harm than good?

[DangIthurts]

Arn13arn made the interesting point on my other thread (about my failed attempt to seek closure with cheating lying irresponsible entitled uBPD/narc ex- can  you tell I'm still angry?  ) that BPDs may avoid closure deliberately as a means of keeping us 'in the box' they maintain for exes.

In my case, the other thread gives the gory details but despite being sprayed with hate and envy in the message I felt that I was being asked to come back, but with bells on  - he was asking for money (indirectly) through pleading poverty, demanding I 'help him' or disappear. and (I think) asking me to beg forgiveness abjectly. There can be no 'grown up' goodbye.

In contrast as I have recently learned, an emotionally stable person will say goodbye kindly and calmly regardless of hurt. It doesn't have to be done the scarring ripping BPD way- something I had forgotten these last years  . Healthy people can agree it just didn't work for one or both, shake hands and leave in peace and mutual forgiveness.

Have those on the thread felt that their exes left a sort of door open by refusing closure?

(A related topic is retention of items you left behind. Eg, I have asked ex around 20 times for my cashmere cardigan back  . I realise now I will never get it back, ever. The first time I asked (while he was with his new girlfriend, unknown to me) he tried to charge me 20 euros for the postage. This is a man who had me paying for everything down to his clothes and toothpaste for three years. Unbelievable eh. You gotta laugh or you will  :'()

My exUBPDgf has not returned multiple items(expensive sweater, expensive shoes, expensive cologne, multiple shirts, pjs, toiletries). It still bothers me. What has she done with my stuff? Unknown. Almost like a final disrespect added to the mountain of lack of respect she heaped upon me in devaluation. 

Mine returned major items like car, ring, but refused jewelry, computers, iPad, clothes, etc. she said those were gifts and she doesn't have to return crap... I said why would you want something from someone you hate? she said nothing .

[Survived?]

BPD will never let this door close peacefully.

[misty_red]

Mine once shut the door very loudly when discarding me with "Leave me alone finally." but she also opened it again or something might've been stuck in the door whilst discarding me... .'cause she's still sticking around. I made the experience that even when they say it's final it isn't and that they can't let go. So even "closure" isn't closure... .

[Infared]

"Arn13arn made the interesting point on my other thread (about my failed attempt to seek closure with cheating lying irresponsible entitled uBPD/narc ex- can  you tell I'm still angry?   that BPDs may avoid closure deliberately as a means of keeping us 'in the box' they maintain for exes."

Yes... .BPD's want control at all cost. Before, during and after. Mine lied, and left for new supply a week before Xmas (this thread does have a holiday subplot!). So she abandons me and runs off to new supply... .but is doing drive-bys and occassional contact to keep me on the string. She is "saying" that it is over but her "actions" are not.  Super sick stuff. My only painful recourse is total and absolute NC. There was nothing there for me but abuse and psycho drama. Nothing.  It doesn't matter what they "say" they are doing with the door or what their "actions" imply that they are doing with the door... .we need to put on our big-boy pants and shut down crazipants by slamming the door shut and walking away to a better place where we can heal. There was no closure unless I created it. None.

I have great empathy for the poor souls who have children with these Devils and there-by HAVE to interact with them. My pain is great enough... .that must be pure Hell... .