Leaving the door open: inability to close it entirely?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Arn13arn made the interesting point on my other thread (about my failed attempt to seek closure with cheating lying irresponsible entitled uBPD/narc ex- can  you tell I'm still angry?  ) that BPDs may avoid closure deliberately as a means of keeping us 'in the box' they maintain for exes.

In my case, the other thread gives the gory details but despite being sprayed with hate and envy in the message I felt that I was being asked to come back, but with bells on  - he was asking for money (indirectly) through pleading poverty, demanding I 'help him' or disappear. and (I think) asking me to beg forgiveness abjectly. There can be no 'grown up' goodbye.

In contrast as I have recently learned, an emotionally stable person will say goodbye kindly and calmly regardless of hurt. It doesn't have to be done the scarring ripping BPD way- something I had forgotten these last years  . Healthy people can agree it just didn't work for one or both, shake hands and leave in peace and mutual forgiveness.

Have those on the thread felt that their exes left a sort of door open by refusing closure?

(A related topic is retention of items you left behind. Eg, I have asked ex around 20 times for my cashmere cardigan back  . I realise now I will never get it back, ever. The first time I asked (while he was with his new girlfriend, unknown to me) he tried to charge me 20 euros for the postage. This is a man who had me paying for everything down to his clothes and toothpaste for three years. Unbelievable eh. You gotta laugh or you will  :'()

[delusionalxox]

Arn13arn made the interesting point on my other thread (about my failed attempt to seek closure with cheating lying irresponsible entitled uBPD/narc ex- can  you tell I'm still angry?  ) that BPDs may avoid closure deliberately as a means of keeping us 'in the box' they maintain for exes.

In my case, the other thread gives the gory details but despite being sprayed with hate and envy in the message I felt that I was being asked to come back, but with bells on  - he was asking for money (indirectly) through pleading poverty, demanding I 'help him' or disappear. and (I think) asking me to beg forgiveness abjectly. There can be no 'grown up' goodbye.

In contrast as I have recently learned, an emotionally stable person will say goodbye kindly and calmly regardless of hurt. It doesn't have to be done the scarring ripping BPD way- something I had forgotten these last years  . Healthy people can agree it just didn't work for one or both, shake hands and leave in peace and mutual forgiveness.

Have those on the thread felt that their exes left a sort of door open by refusing closure?

(A related topic is retention of items you left behind. Eg, I have asked ex around 20 times for my cashmere cardigan back  . I realise now I will never get it back, ever. The first time I asked (while he was with his new girlfriend, unknown to me) he tried to charge me 20 euros for the postage. This is a man who had me paying for everything down to his clothes and toothpaste for three years. Unbelievable eh. You gotta laugh or you will  :'()

[maxen]

there's much to comment on in here - but i have to pop out to my alanon meeting. for the moment i'd like to punch this bit, as it's what i've wept over these past months:

In contrast as I have recently learned, an emotionally stable person will say goodbye kindly and calmly regardless of hurt. It doesn't have to be done the scarring ripping BPD way- something I had forgotten these last years  . Healthy people can agree it just didn't work for one or both, shake hands and leave in peace and mutual forgiveness.

[delusionalxox]

Hey Maxen- good on you for going to AlAnon, hope the meeting is useful and supportive. (I think I was addicted to my ex - could have done with the 12 steps back in the summer... . )

I have had a brief 4 month relationship since splitting with my ex last year. Although I ended it as I could not give the guy the love and commitment he needed, it opened my eyes to the truth that SPLITTING UP DOES NOT HAVE TO BE UGLY AND FULL OF RAGE AND HATE. It's sad, yeah. But a good person will see the value in you- as a friend or a memory or whatever. They will not either rage and cling, or rage and cut dead (only to pop up months later, often enough  ). They won't call you an abuser, selfish, a monster, throw every insult in the book at you, tell  you you ruined their life and you are nothing without them, etc, etc.

That was a shock to me.

[arn131arn]

I think that is why they don't have closure.  To leave the door open for the future.  I also believe that they are incapable of having those heart to heart talks, delusion.

I have been NC since a week before x mas.  I found my ex in an SUV x mas eve night when I was dropping santa gifts off for my son.  It was a terrible night, a terrible holiday.  I went back the next morning bc she demanded from me to be there so our "family" could be together while my son opened gifts from santa.

Wel, I showed up at 7 am at her sister's house (against some people's advice on this board), and guess what?  She wasn't there.  She slept at my replacement's house the night before.  She didn't even watch her son open x mas presents from santa when this could have been the last year he believed in santa clause.

Of course, it was my fault bc I shoed up at 7 am and not 730 am, and she couldn't sneak back into the house in time.

But what I've learned the past 4 weeks, is that after 14 years of being her cornerstone, I have NOT contacted her.  Very stupidly checked her FB and I have vowed never to do it again.  But it's killing her and I know it.  I also know, it's not about her anymore, it's about me.  Like Eminem says, "What am I gonna do with this one shot, this one moment, am I gonna seize everything I ever wanted, own it?"

Hell, yeah, dog!

[selling1]

Hello,

I can truly relate to your story.

The emotional roller coaster seems like it never ends.

Its like they can truly sense when you have had enough and then they start to do things they make you think, 'maybe he or she is not so bad after all', then they are o.k. for a short while, then it continuous again and goes on and on and on, like a repetitive cycle.

Until 1 day you truly say enough is enough and finally move on.

I wish you well.

[State85]

Yep... . mine seems to be leaving that door open

-some gift cards for her birthday she wouldn't take on her birthday, and several times after that. Said she shouldn't have to ask for them, I should give them to her on my own. I finally just mailed them to her.

-a stray dog she found and asked me to help. This tied us together until I found a home for it. Another tie broken.

-a vase that was my Mom's that she threw at me and it broke. She took home to fix. Still there. At this point she won't give it back, says its not done. I now really don't want it back.

-constant texts about her financial situation, how I should help, and because I don't she says I don't care.

I keep thinking all of my ties to her are broken, until she finds another one.

[Moonie75]

I keep thinking all of my ties to her are broken, until she finds another one.

Quite!

Disordered maybe?

Dumb? Absolutely not!

[maxen]

Hey Maxen- good on you for going to AlAnon, hope the meeting is useful and supportive. (I think I was addicted to my ex - could have done with the 12 steps back in the summer... . )

thanks dxox. it was a good meeting. i've come to think of this one as my home meeting. service was even suggested to me: nice to be included!

as to the OP: my w didn't close the door. with professional precision she left things in my lap. all she's done during and since her deceit is point the finger at me, or refuse to take decisions. she left b/c i was to blame for our sex situation; b/c i didn't like her enough; b/c i didn't think she was up to starting a family (well this might be true, what with the drinking and the spending and the dishevelment, but it's my opinion that was the problem you see, not her behaviors); more to the point here, she lied and moved straight in (literally: driving away from our house and right to the other place) but wouldn't file for divorce; she wouldn't read my emails; she said she'd go to MC with me while living with her paramour; she's 'very confused'. today i talked to my L and as of three weeks ago, 6 months after she ran, she hadn't filled out her financial statement for the divorce, even though she told me she had finished it the last time we spoke in september (NC since). and of course she refused on numerous occasions to engage with the fact of her deceit, giving me no closure.

now, i've had breakups that were mutual, or where i did it, or where she did it. these were all honest and i bear not a bit of ill will, and i hope they don't wither - just as you've had recently dxox. if i met these women i'd be happy to see them. but i've had a breakup with a narcissist, and now with a borderline wife, and these were full of rage (on both our parts, though for vastly different reasons).

my pet theory: my w (and i guess pwBPD in general) needs to feel the victim. otherwise she'd have to take responsibility, and that would be too much. i wept once in front of her after she betrayed me and she ran out of the room.

[nowwhatz]

I can also relate. Going through it now and will be on 3 years on and off next month with same BPDgf.

All I can say is the door will not be closed all the way until we want it to be closed all the way.

I am not there yet.

My now ex again will probably be deported to mexico in the near future so at least the border patrol and us customs will be helping to keep the door on the border shut for me.

[Free2Bee]

Mine flat refused to break up with me, even as she was packing her bags. I asked her directly what her intentions were and she screamed at me, saying I was putting 'too much pressure on her' and she 'couldn't take the stress'. She left a bunch of stuff here, though, including her Christmas presents.  She also has some stuff of mine - a camera and an iPod.

Definitely leaving the door open - she's done this before.

I managed to find the closure I needed by returning the gifts and using that money to buy a replacement camera for the one she ended up with. I've mentally 'given' that camera to her now.

For what it's worth, I got a much nicer camera. Buying it felt symbolic, like I was physically letting go of the relationship (when I returned her Christmas gifts to the art store, I broke down and sobbed inconsolably, though - my one 'crying in public' moment over this r/s; the poor staff were standing around shuffling their feet, averting their eyes).

Sometimes I wish I had some kind of formal 'closure' but I know I won't get that from her. I'm not sure it's something she can do for me. I'm giving it to myself and carrying on, taking care of me.

I said this over and over again in my journal, when things were really bad: "I just keep doing my best."

[santa]

I think I got a little of this from my ex. As she was ending it, she said maybe we'll have another kid in a year or two. WHAT? Lol

A couple of weeks ago, she said she wants to be friends, business partners, co-conspirators, etc. (that all sounded like crazy nonsense to me). Why would I want to be in business with someone who screws me over every chance they get? The co-conspirators thing doesn't even make any sense. Why would I commit a crime with her? Lol. Why would I want to be friends with someone who puts my life into turmoil?

A huge thing I've learned since I became interested in BPD is to look at what they do instead of listening to what they say. They'll say whatever. Their actions are what's important. This woman has treated me like a 2nd class citizen since she left. She can rot for all I care. Her days of being buddies with Santa are over.

[Mutt]

Have those on the thread felt that their exes left a sort of door open by refusing closure?

I don't think my ex consciously left the door open by refusing closure. She fled to protect her ego. It's an attachment disorder. I think when  the next fantasy fails, she may try to see if the door is opened.

[Learning_curve74]

A huge thing I've learned since I became interested in BPD is to look at what they do instead of listening to what they say. They'll say whatever. Their actions are what's important. This woman has treated me like a 2nd class citizen since she left. She can rot for all I care. Her days of being buddies with Santa are over.

So you're saying that santa knows who's been naughty and who's been nice?  

Seems like most of us have experienced dysfunctional coping of abandonment fears by our pwBPD... .

[santa]

A huge thing I've learned since I became interested in BPD is to look at what they do instead of listening to what they say. They'll say whatever. Their actions are what's important. This woman has treated me like a 2nd class citizen since she left. She can rot for all I care. Her days of being buddies with Santa are over.

So you're saying that santa knows who's been naughty and who's been nice?  

Seems like most of us have experienced dysfunctional coping of abandonment fears by our pwBPD... .

LOL. Yeah. She's definitely getting low-grade coal this year.

[Perfidy]

My thinking and her thinking were so different that I'm not sure What the heck she was thinking. The biggest mistake I made was sticking around after the fat lady sang. I would like to say it was all just part of the deal but I feel it was a mistake. Sticking around after it was over was what caused deeper injury to my well being. Just more codependent behavior. If I had one hair on my butt I would have slammed that door in her face right then and there and gave her the middle finger.

[Mutt]

Sticking around after it was over was what caused deeper injury to my well being.

I'm lucky I dodged that bullet. My presence triggers mine. She avoids me.

[TheDude]

Ya know, I used to think it was somewhat trivial that there has never been a "goodbye" spoken between us. At 50, I've had more than my fair share of relationships, but can't think of one previous to this that 'ended' so oddly... . not to mention four times. So detached and nonchalant, as if nothing more was going on than running out for an hour errand. And always an undercurrent assumption on her part that the door to her labyrinth may be open again one day.

I'm a year total NC right now, but fully expect her to reappear again, like someone who left their dog out in a sub-zero blizzard and decided to let them in. This time, she'll find that rover has dug his way out under the fence and is headed for warmer climates. 

[santa]

Ya know, I used to think it was somewhat trivial that there has never been a "goodbye" spoken between us. At 50, I've had more than my fair share of relationships, but can't think of one previous to this that 'ended' so oddly... . not to mention four times. So detached and nonchalant, as if nothing more was going on than running out for an hour errand. And always an undercurrent assumption on her part that the door to her labyrinth may be open again one day.

I'm a year total NC right now, but fully expect her to reappear again, like someone who left their dog out in a sub-zero blizzard and decided to let them in. This time, she'll find that rover has dug his way out under the fence and is headed for warmer climates. 

LMAO

[myself]

I left the door open in the past.

Maybe more than she did.

Now it's closed.

[Ironmanrises]

Arn13arn made the interesting point on my other thread (about my failed attempt to seek closure with cheating lying irresponsible entitled uBPD/narc ex- can  you tell I'm still angry?  ) that BPDs may avoid closure deliberately as a means of keeping us 'in the box' they maintain for exes.

In my case, the other thread gives the gory details but despite being sprayed with hate and envy in the message I felt that I was being asked to come back, but with bells on  - he was asking for money (indirectly) through pleading poverty, demanding I 'help him' or disappear. and (I think) asking me to beg forgiveness abjectly. There can be no 'grown up' goodbye.

In contrast as I have recently learned, an emotionally stable person will say goodbye kindly and calmly regardless of hurt. It doesn't have to be done the scarring ripping BPD way- something I had forgotten these last years  . Healthy people can agree it just didn't work for one or both, shake hands and leave in peace and mutual forgiveness.

Have those on the thread felt that their exes left a sort of door open by refusing closure?

(A related topic is retention of items you left behind. Eg, I have asked ex around 20 times for my cashmere cardigan back  . I realise now I will never get it back, ever. The first time I asked (while he was with his new girlfriend, unknown to me) he tried to charge me 20 euros for the postage. This is a man who had me paying for everything down to his clothes and toothpaste for three years. Unbelievable eh. You gotta laugh or you will  :'()

My exUBPDgf has not returned multiple items(expensive sweater, expensive shoes, expensive cologne, multiple shirts, pjs, toiletries). It still bothers me. What has she done with my stuff? Unknown. Almost like a final disrespect added to the mountain of lack of respect she heaped upon me in devaluation. 

[delusionalxox]

'A huge thing I've learned since I became interested in BPD is to look at what they do instead of listening to what they say. They'll say whatever. Their actions are what's important. This woman has treated me like a 2nd class citizen since she left. She can rot for all I care. Her days of being buddies with Santa are over. '

Wow, Santa, you said it all. I love reading your posts btw. So much strength and certainty in them. I am not there yet, but you're an inspiration to me.


Ironmanfalls- you are so right, it is a form of disrespect combined with that toxic 'holding-on' which they do. In order to return my cardigan he would have to care about me and what I want. He also once said 'I keep these things here for you because I care for you so that you can get them back one day'. Eh?   He is in Rome and I am in London, why would I travel to Rome to get a bloody cardigan?   did I mention when I asked for it at the time he dumped me pregnant (just before then) among a load of insulting projecting texts I was asked to send 15-20 euros for its return... . all this while he was screiwing and moving in with someone else!

In that relatively small act of nastiness I really see everything about the toxicity of the relationship. It is one of the many things I think of when I weaken and miss him. I don't want a person in my life who can behave in such a weird, petty, cold, unfeeling way.

I have 2 pairs of my very nice and sane recent ex's shoes here, there is no way that I would keep them, they are his! That's normal right?   We got used to abnormal for sure.

[delusionalxox]

myself 'the door is closed'

Amen! Mine too. It has been very liberating to feel that internal door bang shut forever.

[Pretty Woman]

Two months out and I'm ok with mine avoiding me.  I found an email from a break last February where I told her she needed help and this was not all my fault. She promised to get counceling only for me to be the only one that followed through. 

I ripped the mask off mine at the end.  She left me for someone she had been hanging out with.  I trusted her with this person and was glad she had a new friend.  I felt horribly betrayed and hurt by both of them. 

It's like this.  Do you keep a stinking can of garbage in your bed? No you toss it out.  I was in a relationship with a pile of garbage that didn't deserve my affections.  I am dating someone crazy about me, someone who wants to be a part of my life and loves that I plan special events and have a life outside us. 

There is better out there.  You need to take out the garbage.

[Moonie75]

I feel they keep things belonging to us, as an excuse to open communication at a later date (if the need arises)!

[maxen]

All I can say is the door will not be closed all the way until we want it to be closed all the way.

I am not there yet.

honestly i'm not either. a combination of not wanting wanting to be and her completely successful non-ending of the marriage.

I think I got a little of this from my ex. As she was ending it, she said maybe we'll have another kid in a year or two. WHAT? Lol

thanks for reminding me: the very last thing she said before walking out was "i hope we can be friends someday." 

[glacier_glider]

I'm a year total NC right now, but fully expect her to reappear again, like someone who left their dog out in a sub-zero blizzard and decided to let them in. This time, she'll find that rover has dug his way out under the fence and is headed for warmer climates. 

TheDude!

Nice to see you here! I haven't been here in almost a year.

I remember you were moving to another city and state, driving and thinking about the past.

(I had a different login name at the time).

I did NC for over 10 months and she resurfaced at the end of 2013.

"I love you!" "I miss you!" "You are the best!" "I didn't know what real sex was until I've met you!"

Funny!

[Moonie75]

I'm a year total NC right now, but fully expect her to reappear again, like someone who left their dog out in a sub-zero blizzard and decided to let them in. This time, she'll find that rover has dug his way out under the fence and is headed for warmer climates. 

TheDude!

Nice to see you here! I haven't been here in almost a year.

I remember you were moving to another city and state, driving and thinking about the past.

(I had a different login name at the time).

I did NC for over 10 months and she resurfaced at the end of 2013.

"I love you!" "I miss you!" "You are the best!" "I didn't know what real sex was until I've met you!"

Funny!

Did you remain NC? What happened next?

[glacier_glider]

Did you remain NC? What happened next?

No, I didn't.

I saw her on and off for a couple of months.

Same crap as before or even worse.

Just this time I knew better not to expect anything serious and knew how to react to her game.

But I am a bit injured now, hence back on this forum.

[Moonie75]

Did you remain NC? What happened next?

No, I didn't.

I saw her on and off for a couple of months.

Same crap as before or even worse.

Just this time I knew better not to expect anything serious and knew how to react to her game.

But I am a bit injured now, hence back on this forum.

Bit like the old "play with fire" adage eh?

[glacier_glider]

Bit like the old "play with fire" adage eh?

Exactly!

To be honest, I am glad that this encounter happened.

Otherwise, I'd be less experienced and would be guessing.

Now I know exactly what and how happened.

Read some of my threads and you'll understand.