What is "the last straw"?

[MyGreatEscape]

For those wishing they could leave, or are in the planning stages... . what was that final straw to being DONE and leaning more toward leaving than the "unsure" stage... . ?

I think mine was yesterday. We tried getting pregnant for about 3 years, but couldn't... . my age and health was blamed by HIM oh so easily (I had cancer years back too). I went through VERY painful procedures to find out "what" was wrong... . NOTHING was found other than I have a few less eggs now (duh)... . but then I found out he was a porn addict and through all the sex we had, he was using porn numerous times a day... . so he had no swimmers! Me turning 41 was milestone for us not trying anymore... . and during rages he said he should've never been a father (to his two bio kids or stepdad to my two bio kids) and never wanted more now. So I requested a vasectomy. Nope. He wouldn't talk about it.

So yesterday he tells me in a rage that the REAL reason he won't get a vasectomy is because if I DIE or we get a divorce... . he wants the option to have a baby with someone else... . you know, if he changes his mind... .

He watched me go through ALL THAT, says he wants no kids, shouldn't be a dad... . then says THAT?

I think I heard a crack in the universe at that moment... . or maybe it was the fact that I DID THE SCREAMING this time... .

[Lizlo]

I lived in the "unsure" stage for 10 years.   I had two children with him, that have taken the 10 year journey with me.  My 10 year old son has developed Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and my 8 year old daughter is defiant, and as my husband would say "uncontrollable".   

I left him in early 2013.  My FINAL straw was another woman.  Thru out the course of our relationship and thru the abuse, I always felt sorry for him.  He had been dealt a bad hand and had endured a traumatic childhood.  One that no child deserves.  I always chalked up his behavior to that fact.   He's angry because of the pain he carries.  He's abusive because of the pain he carries.  He never takes me into consideration because nobody taught him how. He doesn't like me going out because he doesn't want anything to happen to me. He doesn't let me talk because he was denied a voice as a child and so i will give up mine so he can have his and feel better. etc. 

But when I found out there was another woman... . ALL of those excuses i had been making for him during all those years, no longer applied.  In an instant I was able to see my situation for what it was.  The betrayal I felt way IMMENSE.  I was devastated.  It wasn't so much that he had been cheating on me, but that I had chosen him over myself.  That I had given my ALL and it had never been valued, considered, appreciated.  At that point I realized i had no reason to stay.  3 days later I left in the middle of the day without him knowing, for our own safety.  2 weeks after that i moved into an apartment with my two kids.  8 months later I'm still here and so grateful that I made it out.  I have a life, a voice, a safe place for me and the kids, friends... .   I NEVER thought I'd be where i am today.  I lived in complete hopelessness.  I have exchanged that for the complete opposite. 

I hope you find my experience helpful.

[thicker skin]

That's a fantastic and inspirational story Lizlo 

Please pop that last straw in a cocktail and enjoy 

[waverider]

I had chosen him over myself. 

This is were us carers let ourselves down badly...

Coping is much easier once we learn not to do this.

MyGreatEscape how much of this was real thought, and how much was it just provocative nonsense?

Hurts non the less. It so hard when we don't know what they really feel or mean as there are so many insensitive flippant aggressive statements.

Odds are he doesn't want a vasectomy as that is about having choice taken away, a loss of control. I had one and as a normal guy even though it was my decision, I started grasping at similar thoughts at the last minute. I had the ability to override them as illogical and selfish. I can't imagine a pwBPD giving consent to it given that they cant override natural fear with logic.

[MyGreatEscape]

Lizlo, what you wrote made me tear up, thank you for sharing yourself AND what has happened to your children. It's so painful, where we all have been. I notice so many can "feel" each others stories here, which is amazing. Though we all have been with completely different people, sadly, they are all cut from the same cloth, so our tidbits of hurt we share on here are like someone telling "our" story, over and over and over. I have times of PTSD symptoms myself and so does my son AND daughter. When my husband is in a rage, we all jump when we hear him coming, and I never sleep well anymore, even when he isn't here. Though I can sense the anguish you have, I have to admit I am envious of you being in your own apartment. I am so distraught over what will happen to my kids if we divorce. We live in CA and I would not be able to provide them with even decent clothes anymore. Rent alone somewhere, even if I moved hours away would be all I could make in one month, assuming I could even find a fast food job. We would for sure be on public assistance, if I could get any, and seriously, there are NO jobs anywhere, not even for people with master's Degrees, which I don't have anyway. I'm working on my Bachelor's right now, and that would go out the window too. I feel like he's counting on me caving because I have no resources. But I cannot negotiate right and wrong anymore, this is just insane.

WaveRider... . I get the fear of vasectomy, for any man... . I really do. I had that "normal" talk with my ex about that, and it was resolved calmly, without ALL THIS. But if IIIII could go get a vasectomy, it would already have been done. Males procedures are a walk in the park compared to what women go through. Monthly cramps alone would floor a man, I would bet my life on it. I can't negotiate with ego, however, so his "fear" and nasty comment that went along with it... . no, not having it. I still cannot wrap my head around the fact that he said something like that. With all he has done, and how he watched me go through agony trying to get pregnant while he was addicted to porn AND having sex with me numerous times per day (and guilting me that IIIII am sexually dysfunctional), saying he never wanted kids again... . to say what he did... . inbetween all the other absolutely unimaginable stuff these BPD people do... . yeah... . this will be a dealbreaker for me... .

[Lizlo]

My dear friend MyGreatEscape... . and I, just like you, teared up when I read what you wrote.  And had I been able to close my eyes and read simultaneously, your words would have transported me back in time.  I know all too well what you described feels like.  I thought I'd share a bit more with you about My Story.  I have attached the link to it in case you are interested. 

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?action=post;topic=217937.0;num_replies=4

In addition to my story I'd like to expand on certain parts that you mentioned, just in case you find any of it useful.

I too live in California.  Two years prior to leaving, when it became very apparent that my husband had become an alcoholic now as well... . I KNEW I could not live that way.  I knew this because my children were  being affected by it.  However, I was unemployed, had NO income, had NO family, had NO friends.   It took me 2 years to find employment. ( I don't have a degree, only a High School Diploma)  As soon as I had my first check I began saving.  Not because I was planning on leaving, but because I did not know if at any given moment he would throw me out with my kids like he had in the past.  I needed a safety net for us.  Life was harder than it had ever been and I was literally suicidal.  When i decided to leave I had approx. $4,000.  I moved into my mothers house with my kids while I searched for an apartment I could afford. I set up a few therapy appointment, for my kids, with a non profit organization, to help them with the transition.  The departure was very difficult for my daughter, but my son was relieved.  I made myself emotionally available to discuss their feelings, fears, thoughts, concerns, questions.  I was honest with them and found myself continuously reassuring them.  I had no credit, 2 months at my job, and no deposit.  I felt defeated and had to explain my situation to potential landlords.  I found that the more open and honest I was about my situation, within reason of course,  with people the more people were willing to help.  I found a small apartment in a not so nice side of town.  I bought 3 mattresses, paid for cable, bought a TV for 20.00 at the Goodwill and went to the food back for food.  Everything I own is a hand me down or from a second hand store.  Our clothes are from a second hand store ( No one but me you and this community knows that).  I don't have ANY money.  I dont have any luxuries, I have 3 mattresses and a TV. =) What I do have is peace, I have safety, I have laughter, i have the ability to make my own choices, I have a voice, I have friendships, I have a BBQ's, I have playdates for my kids, I can sleep with both eyes closed.  Looking back, I was SO AFRAID of him.  I doubted my ability to go thru with ever leaving.  But I'll tell you, the day I left... . that morning as I was driving away with my car packed with clothes and blankets,... . I remember thinking  "I DID IT"  I DID IT"!  And although i knew I was going to have to face some extremely difficult situations to come, I had just managed to get thru the hardest part  LEAVING.  =)

[maxsterling]

I spend considerable time thinking about what the "last straw" would be.  Frankly, this relationship has already passed numerous milestones and red flags beyond what I previously would have put up with.  My previous relationship was to an emotionally abusive NPD, and after that experience, I swore I would never tolerate certain things again.  And yet, here I am.

I thought the screaming at me would have been a last straw.  Nope.

I thought the blaming me for things I didn't do would have been a last straw.  Nope.

I thought the fact she is contributing nothing to the household would do it.  Nope.

Physical abuse?  Nope.

I think infidelity would be enough.  But I also think a suicide attempt may do it.  And another hospitalization would be enough to say "I will never want to have a child with you", and that may be enough for her to want to leave.  

But also there is a cumulative affect of all the other past things plus one more.  One more screaming rage may be enough.  Who knows.  

[Kifazes]

In the beginning, when I didn't know about BPD, I was sure to make it last.

When we moved in together, at first I "blamed" his mom, for not teaching him how to stand up for himself. And because of that I tolerated a lot, since he went through a big change.

Than I found out about his BPD, I thought that if I tried the things here on the board, and in the book "Walking on eggshells" would help me enough to make us a decent life, with its ups and downs ofcourse.

And then, the final straw :-)

Yesterday!

He blamed me throughout the years for everything and everything.

But yesterday HE blamed ME for him wanting to kill himself. At first he said that he knows that I want him to kill himself. That that is my desire, like it is my life long dream. A few hours later, he said that I put him in that spot.

I tried to validate his feelings, and even tried to help. With offering me working more hours so I could pay him a therapist (he never wants to go, cause "it costs too much", so I took that out of the game), but he didn't want that because "I would blame him that I had to work so much". Ok, option 1 was out.

Then I said that if he wanted, he could always just leave. Take his bags, I'll take mine, and we would sell the house and go our seperate ways. He said he couldn't do that because "he loves me too much".

So, he's probably feeling insecure and empty, wants to take his own life, but can't take the blame for it.

And when he blamed me for "me wanting him to kill himself", something inside me just snapped. I finally saw the disease for what it really is. He is dellusional. He is not right in the head. I can't and will never can, follow his train of thoughts.

And since nothing that I offer, or do, or say, will ever help, it was enough.

It didn't hurt me, it didn't frighten me, it didn't make me sad... .

I've never felt like this before, so sure of his dellusional thoughts. I'm actually relieved, like the weight of the world got lifted of my shoulders yesterday. He made it perfectly clear that whatever I do or say, he'll always have HIS thoughts (which are facts to him) about me. And I'll never be enough.

And to be honest, I felt great throughout the whole day today. Happier, more positive, more strenght. Because now I know, he can't hurt me or make me feel guilty anymore.

And in my head, that IS the final straw, and that is MY fact :-)

[MyGreatEscape]

Wow, Kifazes, THAT is quite a last straw. I am so sorry, but thank you for your reply. I haven't heard that one quite yet, although I heard a 'variation' of it from my husband once... . that he "can't be himself with me, has no freedom, no identity, so he 'might as well' be dead." And what the HELL do we do with this kind of stuff? Even if could leave scot-free and financially unscathed... . how do we look at anyone else without wondering if a pwBPD is under there somewhere?

MaxSterling... . we have all set and past any boundary we have ever had for ourselves, it's absolute insanity, that is it in a nutshell. Thank you for sharing that list... . I felt every one to my core as I have had them and past them. I am so happy to have found this board with people who GET THIS... . though if I could wave a magic wand and none of us needed this board at all, that would be so awesome.

Lizlo... . seriously, I am rooting for you... . if no one has said this already... . you are an inspiration, really. That you fearlessly finally got out... . good for you, wow. I spoke to my kids about your posts... . my daughter was in awe of your bravery. She is 11. Oh, and I tried clicking the link for your intro but couldn't find it.  : (

What part of CA are you in? You can message me that if you want... . I'm in the Central Valley. CA is tough financially, especially for people like us... . I have zero family except one sister in WA who just divorced and is struggling too... . everyone else has passed away. That you said you have mattresses, god... . this is all just SO wrong and what we have to deal with to find peace... . I am just shaking my head. Any alimony or child support at all for you or is it so little that it almost doesn't matter?   

((HUGS))

[waverider]

If you wish to find someones past posting, click on their name and it will take you to profile page. There is a link to their to posting history

[MyGreatEscape]

THANK YOU WaveRider... . I didn't know that, and found her post that way... .

[Lizlo]

Thank you, I never thought of myself as an inspiration but greatly appreciate the compliment. It's a boost to my self-esteem to know you would regard me as such.  My strength derived from a conversation I had one day with my own daughter, after she had heard her father call me out of my name.  I was trying to explain to her that what had just happened was unacceptable and that a man should never be allowed to speak to her in such a way.  She looked at me,  and in her most inquisitive tone asked me, " Mommy, then why do you allow it?"  I could not answer her that day.  Months later however, I was abel to... . During one of our conversations on why we couldn't live with daddy,  I looked at her and said, " I do not and will not allow anyone to speak to me that way again.  I DO NOT ALLOW IT. That behavior is unacceptable and I have the right to a home in which I feel safe and respected.  That is why we left."  My two kids gave me the strength to leave.   You let your little girl know that she too has that strength within her.   

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, in the East Bay.  And Yup, i have 3 mattresses and I LOVE THEM!  I feel blessed to have what I do.  I don't feel bad about not having much.  What I have is absolutely perfect.  I don't think much about what I went thru.  In fact I had not thought about it for a very long time, until I was asked to "Tell my Story".  I am in a much different space now.  Why live with those memories, when I have such a wonderful space in which to create new ones?  My focus is now on my CoDependence, My lack of Self-esteem, and my fear.  I don't receive alimony or child support.  I have been afraid to ask him for anything, including my items I left behind.  I have an incredible hard time holding him accountable or responsible for anything. Its much easier for me to handle it on my own and not deal with " what may happen if I ask".  I believe thats my CoDependence hard at work.  ( hard for me to admit that).   I'm almost positive that if I were to ask him for assistance he would help me.  He just doesn't know my situation. He doesn't know anything about me.  He doesn't even know where I live, and I like it that way.  He does offer money here and there, and I take it.  He also buys the kids anything they need.  And he also buys us groceries on a regular basis.   I realize my situation may appear to be one of hardship, but you know... . it really doesn't feel that way.  Perhaps I'm in denial but I view my situation as empowering.  When i walk into my apartment and feel the energy it makes me feel GOOD inside.   I always seem to have enough to provide for me and the kids and thats really all I care about.   Someday I will have what I want in abundance. Abundance is the universe plan for me.    I'm on my way... . and at times i can barely believe it myself.  =D

[waverider]

It is quite inspirational to hear that you can give up a lot of material comforts, for the sake of a stable, even if frugal life. This after all is one of the biggest fears that keep people stuck in unhealthy environments. It takes great courage, but it is worth it.

[Lizlo]

It kept me stuck for the first few years as well.   I had sold my condo to purchase the house we would share and raise our family in. ( the one he currently resides in)   I had furnished the home with all of my belongings, everything I loved, everything I identified with.   I wanted to make it "home".  But with every fit of rage, something of mine would inevitably be picked up, thrown across the room and broken/shattered . It was excruciatingly painful to sit on the floor and pick up those broken pieces, trying to piece them back together and simultaneously understand  why he had such disregard for my things and or what I valued.  He never broke  or disregarded what was dear to him.   I would sit and cry, completely broken hearted, and lost.   What could I do?  I couldn't leave, I BOUGHT THE HOUSE.  And I told myself that for a very long time.  Eventually I stopped buying things for the house. I knew they would be broken anyway, I stopped caring.  The most significant event however, and one that remains as clear as the day it happened, is when i detached myself from the house.  I was in the mist of another rage episode.  The worst one, and the last one I actually remember.  When it was all over and i stood there in the middle of the devastation, alone in total disbelief, angry beyond belief, and I decided I would never give him the pleasure of hurting me that way again.  I picked up my arms and yelled out.  I AM NOT ATTACHED TO YOU.  I AM NOT ATTACHED TO YOU. YOU DO NOT BELONG TO ME... . And I literally felt the detachment of the house from my being.  I never cared about that house again or what was in it.  From that day unit the day I left I had nothing.   So yes, now that i have the little I own, I feel so much joy in them  =).  They're mine.  I haven't owned anything in a very long time.  So this is great.  I get to daydream about how I'll decorate and what I'll buy when I can.  It's WONDERFUL   =) 

[Seneca]

In the beginning, when I didn't know about BPD, I was sure to make it last.

When we moved in together, at first I "blamed" his mom, for not teaching him how to stand up for himself. And because of that I tolerated a lot, since he went through a big change.

Than I found out about his BPD, I thought that if I tried the things here on the board, and in the book "Walking on eggshells" would help me enough to make us a decent life, with its ups and downs ofcourse.

And then, the final straw :-)

Yesterday!

He blamed me throughout the years for everything and everything.

But yesterday HE blamed ME for him wanting to kill himself. At first he said that he knows that I want him to kill himself. That that is my desire, like it is my life long dream. A few hours later, he said that I put him in that spot.

I tried to validate his feelings, and even tried to help. With offering me working more hours so I could pay him a therapist (he never wants to go, cause "it costs too much", so I took that out of the game), but he didn't want that because "I would blame him that I had to work so much". Ok, option 1 was out.

Then I said that if he wanted, he could always just leave. Take his bags, I'll take mine, and we would sell the house and go our seperate ways. He said he couldn't do that because "he loves me too much".

So, he's probably feeling insecure and empty, wants to take his own life, but can't take the blame for it.

And when he blamed me for "me wanting him to kill himself", something inside me just snapped. I finally saw the disease for what it really is. He is dellusional. He is not right in the head. I can't and will never can, follow his train of thoughts.

And since nothing that I offer, or do, or say, will ever help, it was enough.

It didn't hurt me, it didn't frighten me, it didn't make me sad... .

I've never felt like this before, so sure of his dellusional thoughts. I'm actually relieved, like the weight of the world got lifted of my shoulders yesterday. He made it perfectly clear that whatever I do or say, he'll always have HIS thoughts (which are facts to him) about me. And I'll never be enough.

And to be honest, I felt great throughout the whole day today. Happier, more positive, more strenght. Because now I know, he can't hurt me or make me feel guilty anymore.

And in my head, that IS the final straw, and that is MY fact :-)

very similar to mine. my final straw? he accused me of wanting to murder him if i could get away with it. i was astounded. i knew he was ill, but that was the culmination - all the little glimpses i'd gotten of the stage reached their conclusion in that moment, when the curtain finally lifted and i could see it all. the whole production. YOU.ARE.NUTS. there are just no other words. of course it was the rollercoaster that led there. but that was the nail in the coffin for me. that's when i started to take by my life from the cuckoos nest.

i am still here but we are not in a romantic r/s. i am here for our children and to support him in hopes he recovers, but i am no longer being his caretaker or his punching bag.

[MyGreatEscape]

Good grief, they really ARE all cut from the same cloth. This is just so bizarre, reading posts as if they could be mine. Seneca, I commend your patience. My husband would NEVER allow us to not be in a "romantic" relationship for long before he filed for lack of sex, no doubt. It's been one week and one day today with no sex and two days ago being snotty about how he has been "taking care of himself" since I WON'T. Jesus.

Lizlo, girl, my god. You are strong. And I love that you detached from that house in that way. I sorta did the same thing... . visualized myself detaching from my ex's house, that he stayed in... . that IIIII had put my heart and soul in, painted every surface, perfected the most awesome garden ever... . I cut the cord and left it. But now, I'm with someone even worse, but I could leave this house in two seconds if I had a wad of cash.

[Seneca]

Good grief, they really ARE all cut from the same cloth. This is just so bizarre, reading posts as if they could be mine. Seneca, I commend your patience. My husband would NEVER allow us to not be in a "romantic" relationship for long before he filed for lack of sex, no doubt. It's been one week and one day today with no sex and two days ago being snotty about how he has been "taking care of himself" since I WON'T. Jesus.

Lizlo, girl, my god. You are strong. And I love that you detached from that house in that way. I sorta did the same thing... . visualized myself detaching from my ex's house, that he stayed in... . that IIIII had put my heart and soul in, painted every surface, perfected the most awesome garden ever... . I cut the cord and left it. But now, I'm with someone even worse, but I could leave this house in two seconds if I had a wad of cash.

Greatescape, you say he "would never allow" you to be in a sexless rs. But what do you allow? Don't you get a say? You think he'd divorce you, and i get that... . i've lived through half a dozen empty threats. One time we event went to a mediator to file for a separation, but he never goes through with it. He can't. This is the thing with BPD... . he NEEDS you. He is terrified of his aloneness, because then there is no one to take the blame for his misery. Usually, the only way they leave you is if he had someone else lined up. He may make your life a living hell in punishment for removing the sex, he may go have an affair. But he would not be able to go get a divorce. That would require strength and personal conviction. Mine insinuated it again this morning. Its just manipulation. Don't listen to it. Sex is very very important for mine too - high libido, enmeshment, no boundaries... . he thinks my body is his. Stopping that three months ago was tough, but i have to honor myself. I don't WANT to have sex with him. I am tired of giving myself to someone who doesn't really WANT me, he simply needs me to be his mother. It's sad, because outside the BPD, he is a swell guy. I find him attractive and he has great qualities. But there was only so much room in the glass... . one drip too many, and something clicked inside me. "ENOUGH!"

[Samuel S.]

Greatescape, when I was married to my first wife, she already had one child. We then decided to have our own biological child. After about 6 months or so of being on the birth control pill, I saw she was getting all kinds of bad side effects. I hated to see her feeling bad. So, I suggested that I get a vasectomy. She was so grateful that I suggested this idea. She said that if and when she would die, that I could always reverse the vasectomy in order to have more kids. So, I got it done. Yet, after 25 years of marriage, she passed away from uterine cancer at the age of 55.

As for what is the last straw of us nonBPDs, it varies person by person. For me, I have had the philosophy of where there's life, there's hope. I have been an optimist, but my BPDw's issues are so plentiful, even with all of the positive stuff she has done to improve herself, that she gladly verbally abuses me while still wanting to have her own pity party, even after 13 years. If and when she ever hits me physically, I am out the door completely and forever. As for the verbal abuse ending my marriage, she truly is deteriorating our marriage bit by bit, sad to say. She knows that I love her, but I really don't know if she loves me.

[jeph128]

I have been with my SO for over 15 years. I stupidly married her in 2002. I'm a mess. I am so depressed and angry I can hardly function. I was raised with parents who were very critical, smothering, demanding etc., plus a half sister who was similar.  I believe my mother and sister were BPD, anyway I have a background that led me to expect poor treatment, anger, manipulation etc...   In 15 years I have thought many times about leaving but always talked myself out of it. I am a shy, solitary person and I thought just having someone in my life was a good thing - it is not.  Last straws: 2 years ago I was offered an early retirement, my commute was terrible and the job was going downhill - my wife encouraged me said she would be supportive, work extra (she only works 3 days/week) etc. - what I got was yelling and emotional abuse/non stop criticism telling me what a bad person I was and I was the only source of her unhappiness but never a mention of the retirement and new job seeking, the day I came home and said I got a good part time job all the abuse stopped. Recently (fall) she suddenly started yelling, criticizing, demeaning me and again telling me how horrible I am and the source of all her problems.  After 2 weeks I told her our life together was over, for the first time she sat with me and spoke in a rational tone - all about splitting up, with her being much too reasonable for me to trust. She went to dinner with a friend (asking me to go along like we were in a good place), I declined went out to try to eat on my own.  She came back from dinner all smiles telling me how wonderful I am and dismissing the previous behaviors as just spats that everyone has.  Since then she has been decent but I know the next time is brewing.  I am sick of her, cannot stand her, obviously don't trust.  My problem is I trusted and took an early retirement, work part time and have security, financial needs.  I need to find a good full time job so I can tell her goodbye but it's taking time and I am so depressed and messed up I have trouble doing anything except sleep.  I also am obsessing about how stupid I have been for all these years and kicking myself daily. She and I at this point have very little to do with each other except when she orders me to do something, wants excessive affirmation for what she does (how many times can I say her photo of her guinea pig dressed up is good). I am not meeting her bottomless pit of needs and just try to stay to myself.  Thanks for letting me vent. I could go on and on but who wants to read that mess.

[MyGreatEscape]

Seneca, you are absolutely right... . he has never been able to "pull the trigger" (as he says). Even HE acknowledges that he threatens nonstop but can't actually follow through. Sad. Me printing up divorce papers myself two blow-ups ago has been an interesting experience... . to see him scramble to get another therapy appointment lined up and he has actually made some changes to his usual freak-out timeline. I'm not buying the implied sincerity at this point though, I told him about my new bank account and we are not being intimate until I see action. He even actually, last night, very calmly told me he thought about "the facts" and he sees how immature it was for him to tell me that stupid reason not to get a vasectomy, and that he is doing it.

Uh, whaaaaaat?

As nice as that was to "hear"... . I'm not falling for that either and will wait to see if he actually does anything.

I don't "want" a divorce... . but I dunno... . this last time was just so over the top, I don't know if I can go back. We'll see.

Samuel S... . my god, I am so sorry you lost your first wife. And now, you get to deal with someone with BPD? This is when I question my belief that things happen for a reason... . I mean, really... . do you REALLY have lessons to learn in this way? Do any of us? It's just so maddening. I too, am a hopeless optimist... . but we do all have our limits, and I fear I have hit mine, which breaks my heart because deep down, I think my husband has such awesome potential... . he's just so screwed up he doesn't see that or can't control his impulses, and we can't have a caregiver relationship.

All my best to you, Samuel... . may one of us make it out intact!

Jeph128... . don't be too hard on yourself. We ALL fell for the marketed image these people portrayed to us. Very few of us had ANY inclination of who these people were capable of turning into before we married them. I know I didn't. I think that what/who they showed us initially is who they "want to be" or who they really think they are... . but they are just so messed up that they cannot compute that their behavior is NOWHERE near this image. That you realize you gravitated toward this type of person because of your background is huge, so, keep working on yourself, it's what we ALL need to do. This board is such an awesome resource to stay grounded. And, we DO want to hear "this mess"... . we're all in it, so vent away.

And by the way, Samuel AND Jeph128... . not that I was under some delusion that this only affects women (having the abusive BPD partners), but thank you for sharing, in such a meaningful way, from the male perspective, it's extremely eye opening, and I truly appreciate hearing what you've experienced.

[Samuel S.]

MyGreatEscape, thank you for your feedback to all of us. I have come to the realization that my BPDw needs attention, needs love, and needs to pull away. This is her all and everywhere she goes. She says she will be better when she gets her 4 year degree in acupuncture 3 1/2 years from now, because she can't handle being a pharmacist anymore. Yet, before her recent wish to become an acupuncturist, she was doing this avoidance and here I am game, and I suspect she will do it again.

Yes, you're right that you and I are hopeless optimist who see below the S***, that there is a possibility of true change in our BPDs, but they act out, out of sheer frustration, even when you and I are there for them. On the other hand, the question I pose to you and the question I pose to myself is: are they here for us, or are they using us? I don't know the answer, because I don't know her. Also, I don't understand myself for wanting to stay here. It is like us nonBPDs are doing our own great escapes, like your name, but we seem resigned to remain. For me, I know that I am good enough professionally while I worked and while I have been semi-retired. In fact, due to being avoided and lost in my BPDw's game, that's why I am semi-retired and not fully retired. If she were as she had been a long time ago focusing on our relationship while still working, I would be fully retired. My counselor told me way back when to fulfill my joy. Indeed, professionally, my joy is being fulfilled. Yet, again, that means very little when my heart is empty.  :'(

[MyGreatEscape]

Ah, yes, Samuel S... . isn't that one of the great questions... . are they here for us or are they using us? Sadly, I know my husband has used me for almost everything. Even when he does something "for" me... . there is something he wants or expects in return... . NOW... . and even grander than what he did "for" me. He has actually admitted that to an extent recently... . although not to the extent that IIIII believe. Having said that though, I can also see the wounded little boy in him that was truly never taught or shown by anyone how a real relationship works... . give, take, give, take... . compromising, saying thank you, appreciating, and giving just to give. Like all these pwBPD, their views are skewed and they don't understand love... . not really. But we see that they want it OH SO bad... . don't they? Insecurities always get in the way of seeing love correctly and it stinks... . for them and especially us.

WHY do we stay... . we're wounded too and we're hopelessly romantic and optimistic that something will snap them out of this? Sadly, most won't, so here we are on this board.

It has to burn your butt too... . that she is doing acupuncture... . ? A skill for people who should be grounded and callllllllllm. Again with the irony of this! I haven't done acupuncture but I believe in energy healing and positive energy, etc... . and when I have taught him different techniques, he then runs with it and gives ME advice on what I'm "doing wrong"? I just have to laugh... . they are so clueless sometimes... .

He also read "The Secret"... . and started thinking he could "wish himself" a lambourghini... . uh, no.

Take care, friend... .

[Samuel S.]

MyGreatEscape, yes, BPDs like yours and mine, truly do feel very insecure and are stuck in their childhood mentalities due to their past issues, even if they are shown a better way of being happier with themselves and MAYBE with others. Then, they turn it around and make us feel less than inferior. What you mentioned how you have shown him different techniques, and he then gives you advice about how to live your life. All I can see from your posts is that you do have happiness within yourself with your energy healing and positive energy. I am happy with myself, because even though my parents argued a lot when I was younger, I am actually better and more sensitive to others. That's why I became a teacher and wanted to make a difference with students so that students can be seen and heard emotionally and academically. My BPDw is basically envious of me professionally, because I have extended my happiness to others by listening and caring then and now writing family and teacher books along with giving workshops. By the way, TLC for me means Teaching Learning and Caring.

Yes, my BPDw is learning how to do acupuncture. Yes, acupuncturists are supposed to be already grounded and calm, but she is nowhere close to that. She again is extending herself as she has done so frequently, only to find issue with everything and everyone. I would not want to become one of her patients, because if she were in a bad mood, I could see how she could easily harm anyone.

Yeah, my BPDw basically tells me that I am wrong, that I am not happy as well, because she has found "the way" to happiness. 

Yeah, you're right, MyGreatEscape, you, I, and other nonBPDs are wounded, hopelessly romantic, and optimistic about our SOs. However, although we have been wounded from our pasts and even presently, we do not blurt out onto our SOs to make them pay; however, they most certainly do that to us unfortunately. Indeed, we need "SOS" to help our SOs!

You too, take care, my friend! If there were more sensitive and more sensible people like yourself, our world would be a better place! 

[Samuel S.]

MyGreatEscape and any other nonBPD, my BPDw is out of town 3 days and 2 nights each week each semester. A fellow student has helped her with some computer issues. After class is over, she has offered to take him to the train station each of the 3 days. Usually, she is not so generous and will go directly to her hotel room to rest and to study. I might be wrong and I might be right, but I have a suspicion that something is going on between the 2 of them. You may think I am jealous or angry, if this suspicion turns out to be true, but I am not. In fact, I would be glad, because if it becomes one of those fruitful relationships which she could very easily do, it would be a great excuse to leave her and to divorce her. In fact, I hope it is true. I thought I would not ever say this or admit this, but considering the hell I have experienced with her, this would be a perfect excuse for me to go permanently. Speaking about a last straw, this would be it!

[MyGreatEscape]

Oh wow, Samuel S., well if she is indeed seeing someone I certainly hope that IS your last straw. As if we don't put up with enough already. Are you going to investigate this at all or ask her about it? I don't think that's jealousy AT ALL. Even if she did not have BPD, I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I have always felt those types of "generosities" cross boundaries that married people should think twice about. But she does have BPD... . and as far as I can tell so far, 100% of our SO's are capable of this if given the opportunity. Mine hasn't YET but he has done other things that point to his ability to do so... . the porn addiction, looking up exes on Facebook... . these are symptoms of possibilities, IMO. They are SO insecure, needy and don't see what they have in front of them so any attention can go anywhere and they will justify it with their skewed perception.

And... . I just noticed your moniker says "Formerly Sensitive Man"... . now, now... . that is clearly not true... . you are able to see through her and all this crap and STILL want to help others. YOU are intact. SHE is not.

I don't care what these people do to us... . from what I have seen on this board... . everyone here is strong in ways that our SO's can't even dream of. I have my moments of tears and overwhelming frustration, but he will NOT break me. If anyone is jealous, it's our SO's... . it must be terrible to be so out of control within themselves and watch us keep it together when they cannot.