She never knew me, nor did I. It's not in them to know us.

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

One thing that helped me detach is this revelation, I may be wrong but from my personal experience + BPD knowledge. Their painting us white during the honeymoon phase is just as deluded as when they paint is black. At its core, it's a mechanism they have that's perhaps innate to them. But she did not know me. Sure, we engaged in intimate acts and conversations. But did she know ME? No! She just knew an idea of me that only existed in her mind. A man who could help her, a man whom she can pin hopes, aspirations, needs. There is no room in the agenda for "I want to know him, I want to help him achieve is goals, I want us to be intimate, I want us to love one another. That doesn't exist.

Whenever I found myself thinking about her, missing her, I mean missing a person who has probably hurt me more than any human ever has, I missed an idea of her that I created in her mind. I didn't know her either. It's a shame. And I guess that's what kept her memory alive in my head for a year after the break up. It's such a mystery to let a person whom we hardly knew into our lives and went with the paradigm of a relationship. When it ends... Who are they? Who are we to them? To me, at this point, I don't care.

I've lamented the loss, I looked within, and most importantly I'm not the same man as I was before. This revelation, helped me realize that it's of no importance to keep her memory alive in my head any longer. She didn't even know me and if I were to have been with her to this day, she still wouldn't of known me, it's not in her relationship paradigm to do that.

[Iamdizzy]

One thing that helped me detach is this revelation, I may be wrong but from my personal experience + BPD knowledge. Their painting us white during the honeymoon phase is just as deluded as when they paint is black. At its core, it's a mechanism they have that's perhaps innate to them. But she did not know me. Sure, we engaged in intimate acts and conversations. But did she know ME? No! She just knew an idea of me that only existed in her mind. A man who could help her, a man whom she can pin hopes, aspirations, needs. There is no room in the agenda for "I want to know him, I want to help him achieve is goals, I want us to be intimate, I want us to love one another. That doesn't exist.

Whenever I found myself thinking about her, missing her, I mean missing a person who has probably hurt me more than any human ever has, I missed an idea of her that I created in her mind. I didn't know her either. It's a shame. And I guess that's what kept her memory alive in my head for a year after the break up. It's such a mystery to let a person whom we hardly knew into our lives and went with the paradigm of a relationship. When it ends... Who are they? Who are we to them? To me, at this point, I don't care.

I've lamented the loss, I looked within, and most importantly I'm not the same man as I was before. This revelation, helped me realize that it's of no importance to keep her memory alive in my head any longer. She didn't even know me and if I were to have been with her to this day, she still wouldn't of known me, it's not in her relationship paradigm to do that.

[myself]

I was thinking about calling her. We were together for years, and the silence can affect me as much as the din. What stopped me was I thought, after all this time, she doesn't really know me. The more I think of it, I don't know her either. Who would I be calling? More importantly, who would I be if I called?

[RecycledNoMore]

It is such a sad revelation though isint it?

The ex didnt know me either, it was always all about him him him, his needs his wants, I bent over backwards( literally) to please him, placate him, anything to keep him in a good mood... .

I lost myself in the process, I could have been a toaster or a block of wood, he wouldnt have cared as long as he got what he needed.

[Iamdizzy]

I see it as a bitter but liberating revelation. It adds more fuel to the "dizzy move on" fire. It makes me stop myself from missing her any longer. I'm missing someone who I don't know and who was never interested in Getting to know me. I was just physical being who can provide stuff.

[Free2Bee]

I've been struggling with this too.

I'm trying to delineate between my fantasy/misperception of this r/s and the genuine emotion/connection that was truly there - at least on my part.

I fully understand and accept that my partner was experiencing our r/s in a completely different way than I was -  and she mirroring what I needed from her in order to keep me fully immersed in the mirage.

But I'm absolutely shattered that I fully believed in this, heart and soul. I thought I was really 'feeling', I was certain that I was following my intuition. I really thought it was 'real'. *I* wasn't being fake. I truly thought I was part of something special and working towards a life companionship that was healthy and nourishing.

I'm kind of angry at myself for being fooled, but at the same time, I want to honour the genuine affection and loyalty that I brought to the r/s while I was still in it.

I think it's going to take a lot of time and work in order for me to trust myself again.

[Waifed]

This reminds me of all the times that she seemed distant or would do things (that couples usually decide together) without any regard for my thoughts or feelings.  It was like I was a 3 year blip on her radar.  It is as though they are survivors who have no real trust for anyone or anything.  I wonder if they are perpetually searching for someone that they can trust or that they know they will never trust anyone and therefore must "survive" it alone. 

I also never knew my ex even though I tried and she never really took the time to get to know who I was unless it was for something that suited her needs.  It is all such a very strange thing.  I'm over 4 months out and I am still so confused by all of this.  My brain is almost finished processing and I have come to the conclusion that I will never know who she was and how she felt about me.  I also realize now that what she had to offer me was not enough.  She was probably right when she always said that I would leave her if she ever fully committed to me.  Her games kept me off guard, alone and confused.  This prolonged my eventual abandonment of her. 

[Iamdizzy]

Kai I completely understand the anger you have towards yourself. I had that anger for a long time.  But you must understand, you're here on this site to look for answers, to better yourself. I'm sure that in your private life, you're confronting your fears, trying to make sense and most importantly, learn from this. That's whats important, you're learning.

Your BPDex is not. Quite the opposite. They're not looking for answers, or how to improve, or how to face their problems. However, You have the capacity to change and you're willing to better yourself. That in itself is commendable.


Waifed- her games, the patch of good times, her stories of the horrible exboyfriends, etc. kept me in the ringer for 7 months. It was always about her. When I expressed my fear of quitting my job and jumping over to another job with better pay, she turned it around into "you know dizzy, I'm a piece of ___, I don't have a well paying job!" I had to comfort her. When I needed her the most, it's about her. I don't need that, and never will need something like that again.

[ShadowDancer]

THIS... . is the absolutely the most profound aspect and the ultimate final turning point of the PD experience for me.

The start of true internal healing and the dissipation of personal cognitive dissonance and recovery did not happen for me until this very bitter of pills was swallowed... . whole.

It was and is a shame on both sides.

Thank you Dizzy for pointing out this most important aspect of mutual responsibility.

[bpdspell]

I am Dizzy,

This is a great topic and one that's never really expounded upon much on this forum. The idea that we never really knew them and they never really knew us can help to disintegrate the fantasy of what we believed we once shared with them.

What we shared with them was real but from two different narrative viewpoints.

I can honestly say that I know much more about my ex now than I did when we shared our time together. I much better understand narcissistic abuse, narcissism and it's spectrum disorder BPD…than I did when I was experiencing the everyday What the heck moments       with my ex.

My ex saw me as an idealized rescuer…I was painted fantasy white and put on the highest pedestal.

Then I was devalued and kicked off of the highest point of the Brooklyn Bridge.

My ex never took the time to know me nor understand me: my quirks, my personality, what made me tick, what made me happy sad, my gifts and talents. He never showed me real compassion, forgiveness, or individual understanding as it related to me. He never show me any real amends or consistent sense of accountability. And now I understand why. It is because they lack the capacity to nurture our needs and "see" our individuality due to their mental illness. They don't have it in them due to their stunted minds.

My ex instead groomed me to placate HIS needs; just like a child would do to a parent. Slowly and slowly my sense of self was eroded to make sure that the entire relationship became all about HIM. Before you know it you're in the BPD matrix: walking on eggshells, becoming an empty shell of yourself…living for their validation and approval.

Did I know my ex? Certainly not. Like most people with BPD he wore the mask of victim, victim of circumstance, being wronged, and all of the clown car of ex's being the problem…that is of course until he met me... .   Did my ex volunteer the truth? That he's an abuser, a liar, a manipulator, a confabulator…a psychotic narcissistic mess of melodrama, a destroyer of trust? Absolutely not.

BPD's don't volunteer who they are. You simply have to experience them.

Spell

[Ironmanrises]

For me, from what i experienced with mine, stretching back to friendship; the entire experience was real. The good was real. And the bad was real. She did know me, but seemed to forget me post trigger. And that extends back into friendship. It is all in what lens you are being viewed through. Why did she seem to forget me/look at me as a stranger? Because i was being viewed in the post trigger phase as whoever it was that abused her in childhood. Before the trigger day arrives, i was not being viewed as that person, that abuser. As far back as friendship, i spent years getting to know her and vice versa. All of that was real. Subtract the intimacy/getting close and she was quite the lovable person.

[Iamdizzy]

Shadow,  it is a harsh truth but liberating. I do agree that this is what we need to face in order to start the healing process.

Spell, you took the words out of my mouth. I've stated many times on here that I got to know my BPDex more when we broke up than when I was with her.

She viewed me as perhaps a fresh start for HER. It was all about her. I was a brand new page in a feces covered book, and my roll was to carry her cross, her burdens.

I viewed her as just am extremely raw beautiful sexual being that I enjoyed my time with. I didn't want to be alone. I thoroughly enjoyed the attention I got from her, the idealization, I enjoyed the never ending comments on how good we looked as a couple. To me, she was going to be the relationship I never had. A relationship with vacations, intimacy, love. That's who I painted her as, someone who I can have actual intimacy.

Two different spectrums. I'm glad I stumbled upon this reality. I also need to take time to get to know someone. Rather than just think its all dandy because of the sex.

[ShadowDancer]

Shadow,  it is a harsh truth but liberating. I do agree that this is what we need to face in order to start the healing process.

She viewed me as perhaps a fresh start for HER. It was all about her. I was a brand new page in a feces covered book, and my roll was to carry her cross, her burdens.

I viewed her as just am extremely raw beautiful sexual being that I enjoyed my time with. I didn't want to be alone. I thoroughly enjoyed the attention I got from her, the idealization, I enjoyed the never ending comments on how good we looked as a couple. To me, she was going to be the relationship I never had. A relationship with vacations, intimacy, love. That's who I painted her as, someone who I can have actual intimacy.

I also need to take time to get to know someone. Rather than just think its all dandy because of the sex.

Say Dizzy, Have you been reading my journal?

[Iamdizzy]

Shadow, I think when it comes to BPD relationships, we ALL have the same/similar entries in our diaries

[Iamdizzy]

Ironman, very interesting post.


"she seemed to know me pre trigger but not after when she was triggered. You were viewed as a former childhood abuser. You know what's crazy, the same holds for me but in the opposite manner. Whenever I saw her flip the F OUT, I viewed her flipping out on her past abusers, not me. This caused me to forgive and be way too understanding whenever she went off verbally.

I would assume that she also viewed me as a past abuser, the guy who took advantage of her, her mom and or dad, her druggie ex boyfriend, the other jerk boyfriend etc, etc. I understand that this is something perhaps subconscious.

That's where I draw my line ironman. Yes, it's traumatic, yes if it's not BPD distortion, it's horrible what happened to our partners. But it's not fair to us. We pay with our souls for the actions of other men/women. Actions that I would never in my life do to another human let alone my partner. In addition, our partners are old enough to understand that we are NOT their past abusers. Yet, despite the many failed relationships and despite being aware that they have issues, they in one way shape or form still choose to associate us with their abusers. That is something I cannot tolerate. I've read many of your posts, I may not know you personally, but you're a good person&  a caring person

[In_n_Out]

My dBPDxgf knew me as if though she had read my biography.  Little things that I threw out in general conversation about something that I did as a kid (for example), she remembered and would recite all of those details - even years later.  We watched some of my home movies and she would remember the PJ's that I was wearing as a kid on Christmas morning (she's hinted that she would sit and watch those movies over and over again without me).  She knew things that I said to my parents some 25 years ago when coming home on leave.  Amazing memory and details.  She says of it "it's both a blessing and a curse".  She knows all of the lines from all of her favorite movies and should would play the lead female role every time that we watched them (she was a theater major in college - oh shock!). 

During our breakup, she would write something like "I will always remember the little boy in you" or "it was the little boy in you that I fell in love with".  Upon analyzing, to me she is saying that she "fell in love" with a little boy that had not yet jaded her; before I was painted black and that's the image of me that she chooses to hang on to.  Of course when she would recall something from my past that I had very briefly mentioned, it was amazing to me because nobody does that and I thought that this woman was so enamored with me that she actually "studied" me like that.  Now it's just plain spooky to me.

[ucmeicu2]

One thing that helped me detach is this revelation, I may be wrong but from my personal experience + BPD knowledge. Their painting us white during the honeymoon phase is just as deluded as when they paint is black. At its core, it's a mechanism they have that's perhaps innate to them. But she did not know me. Sure, we engaged in intimate acts and conversations. But did she know ME? No!

does anyone ever truly know anyone?  everyone wears masks, that's psych 101.

i believe she knew me.  she seemed to know me better than others have... . oftentimes she seemed to know me better than me! 

she knew the Good me and the Bad me.  the problem with pwBPD is that they cannot reconcile or integrate the two.  the good me was real.  the bad me was real.  they just couldn't be real together, at the same time, for her.  that, i believe, is their biggest stumbling block.

[GuiltHaunted]

You got to ask yourself "is it important, if she ever knew me or not?". Your exBPD is someone from the past, whom you ideally will never see or hear from again - like a complete stranger. Do you care when you walk down the street, if the person that pass you knows you or not? Or what opinion they may have of you?

In the beginning of december I had a phone conversation with my ex-gf (probably uBPD, everything matches up, but I am not a Doctor to put this label on her). This was 8 months after our breakup. I asked her directly if she was happy with her new relationship, and she said "yes, very". That's when I stopped e-stalking her, because I realized I might as well have stalked any random stranger. That's who they are now - a random stranger.

What you reasonably CAN do, is ask: ":)id I know him/her?". Two of you say, that you learned more about them post breakup, than when you were together. I would say that equals to, "no, you didn't know them at all".

I have come to realize that I didn't know her at all. I have no idea what emotions she had inside. If we had an argument, she would have a very special look, and avoid direct eye contact, looking slightly beside me. I remember feeling, that wheels and spokes were turning inside her head, and always wondering what she was thinking. It scared me quite a bit, since I had no idea what was going on.

I have no idea if she was happy, during what I perceived as the good times. She looked happy, but I honestly don't know if she felt that way or if there was a big hollow void inside her. Now it feels like I was part of an episode of ":)exter" (without massmurdering, except my self-esteem). 

Picking up the pieces and moving on, who care what the knew or thought?

P.s.

Hi to all, I am new here! 

My story and introduction here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=218287

[Perfidy]

You got to ask yourself "is it important, if she ever knew me or not?". Your exBPD is someone from the past, whom you ideally will never see or hear from again - like a complete stranger. Do you care when you walk down the street, if the person that pass you knows you or not? Or what opinion they may have of you?

In the beginning of december I had a phone conversation with my ex-gf (probably uBPD, everything matches up, but I am not a Doctor to put this label on her). This was 8 months after our breakup. I asked her directly if she was happy with her new relationship, and she said "yes, very". That's when I stopped e-stalking her, because I realized I might as well have stalked any random stranger. That's who they are now - a random stranger.

What you reasonably CAN do, is ask: ":)id I know him/her?". Two of you say, that you learned more about them post breakup, than when you were together. I would say that equals to, "no, you didn't know them at all".

I have come to realize that I didn't know her at all. I have no idea what emotions she had inside. If we had an argument, she would have a very special look, and avoid direct eye contact, looking slightly beside me. I remember feeling, that wheels and spokes were turning inside her head, and always wondering what she was thinking. It scared me quite a bit, since I had no idea what was going on.

I have no idea if she was happy, during what I perceived as the good times. She looked happy, but I honestly don't know if she felt that way or if there was a big hollow void inside her. Now it feels like I was part of an episode of ":)exter" (without massmurdering, except my self-esteem). 

Picking up the pieces and moving on, who care what the knew or thought?

P.s.

Hi to all, I am new here! 

My story and introduction here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=218287

Hmmm...

[Perfidy]

The only problem I see is that we did know them. Not much short of a frontal lobotomy or maybe only a partial lobotomy could remove any reaction to that. I know how hard this is. Of course they knew us. They knew every aspect of us in and out. How else could the manipulate us like their slaves. How else would we serve them to the point of putting their every need before our very own. They aren't gods but we worshipped them like one. We knew each other intimately. THAT IS THE PROBLEM

[GuiltHaunted]

i didn't worship mine at all. And I didn't jump through every hoop she set out for me (which is probably why I am single now). On the contrary, I was "beating" up on quite a lot.

I was the one to tell her, "there is nothing wrong with you". I was the one that told her to stop taking anti-depressant. "You've been misdiagnosed, you are just a normal girl that had some bad experiences". I still think that she was misdiagnosed, but how little did I know as to what a ill she is. Actually she didn't become depressive, after she got off her medication, rather more self-confident. The relationship lasted another 2 years after that.

At one point, a few months after the breakup... . she was googling a lot about ADHD, and believed that she might be suffering from that. I dismissed it again, as "there is nothing wrong with you". Her reply was that it was "about her, getting better in her relationships and her work colleagues". She thinks everyone are idiots, and everyone else are not doing there work properly (and it's not like she hold a very difficult or complicated job, she's a flight attendant). She gets upset with, and into arguments with, EVERYONE (family, work colleagues, friends) at one point or another.

How could I get the idea, that nothing was wrong with her - had I really know her?

I painted my own white picture of her, as well as she of me.

does anyone ever truly know anyone?  everyone wears masks, that's psych 101.

[GuiltHaunted]

P.s.

We may have had different BPD-type exes. If it pans out that she is indeed BPD, she is definitely the "waif" type.

[Perfidy]

The one I was with was the diagnosed type. Dual diagnosed. Co-morbid drug addiction. Train off the tracks. I gotta say right now I wished I would have never known her. The unhappy fact is that I did. I knew her intimately. She knew me intimately. We had an intimate relationship that lacked every aspect of a healthy relationship. That's what the problem is. Now I need to heal from the wounds. If we really had not known each other I wouldn't be fubar.

[joekro]

I know that most if not all of us thought we were the one's who could break through and rescue these poor souls, and I hope for my girl that she finds someone who does.

[joekro]

I most definately know all there is to know about my exBPDgf, and she knows all there is to know about me. We met in our twenties (25 yrs ago) and from the instant we met, there was something unique and singular about us. It was a purely platonic relationship, we told each other everything. She's the best friend I have ever had. She was every mans type and she had many admirers, but we shared a kinship that I've never had with any other human being. We came close to intimacy several times but we thought, why risk what we have for sex? so we refrained. A few years later, I move away and we lose all contact.

!8 yrs pass and I contact her. The fireworks were immediate and bombastic. Then, things just happened. We had an affair (she's married) that would burn the pages of the steamiest romance novel. We dreamed of a life together. She also confided in me that she suffered from BPD and knew that I would not judge her but listen, just as I always did. About a year into it we got careless and were caught by her husband (in Nov) via spyware. She is now under lockdown with a "personal assistant" watching her every move.

She wants to save her marriage but feels she cannot give me up so we both are confused about what the future holds for us. I will be whatever she needs me to be... . painted black, or painted white.