I've heard

[Perfidy]

... . that grieving a BPD r/s is comparable to losing a parent. Lost my father when I was sixteen. Grieved his passing. Healthy grief. Didn't get stuck in any part of it. This grief that I have now is quite a bit different. I am wondering about it. Today I was a little more depressed than I have been. Did my two mile walks. Talked with some family. Thought about the ex.

It's different, in that when my father passed I actually saw him in his casket and placed in the grave, and then we all buried him. Positive closure for one. Another reason it's different is because when my father died my self worth wasn't destroyed. If anything I valued myself more when he died because I didn't have him anymore. I knew I would have to rely on myself more. Also, I swore that I would never cry again. Like it or not I had to become an adult and fend for myself.

This detaching, grieving, and healing from a pwBPD  is much more complicated and painful. I go through all of the normal stuff. The scripted "non" thinking. Will the next fool have it better, could I have made it work... . blah blah blah ... all of the mental masturbation and mindfu€k. Getting my head around FOO issues hasn't been easy. I still can't quite make the connection. Even with a great counsellor and all of the reading I've been doing, plus this site. Something just doesn't click for me about how I was interacting with the BPDex on a parental level. Maybe I'm not supposed to understand. Somehow knowing she is disordered just isn't cutting it all the way off for me. I miss her.

My brother in law passed away yesterday. A year older than me. He was ill. It was expected.

A woman I knew passed away today. She was four years younger than me. She also was ill. It was also expected.

I am grateful for my health

I am grateful for my life and all of the good things in it

I'm grateful for my children, my family and friends

[santa]

Sorry to hear about your loved ones. Sounds like you're having a tough week.

I see where you're coming from about how losing a BPD ex is like having someone close to you die. It does sort of feel that way. I guess it's because of how unexpected it happens. The way the BPD clings to you and bonds with you during the relationship, you never think they'll leave you, but then one day they're just gone. It kind of does feel like they just died. I think the two situations are quite similar.

[Mutt]

Sorry to hear about your loved ones. Sounds like you're having a tough week.

I see where you're coming from about how losing a BPD ex is like having someone close to you die. It does sort of feel that way. I guess it's because of how unexpected it happens. The way the BPD clings to you and bonds with you during the relationship, you never think they'll leave you, but then one day they're just gone. It kind of does feel like they just died. I think the two situations are quite similar.

Sorry for your loses perdify.

I agree w/ santa.

I'm almost a year seperated and still grieving. Just today I had memories from the r/s and I thought when is this going to end?

[eclectic]

One thing I don't understand on this board, it seems everyone wants to beat up themselves for missing someone you love.  I never beat myself up for missing my ex, it's human, I loved her and still do, of course I miss her, I won't beat up myself for missing her, I think that is absurd on our part.

[love4meNOTu]

I'm sorry for your loss perfidy.

Seems that at times like these we ruminate more for lost things, and people.

Just looking back at our lives, and taking stock. You keep on keepin' on sir... .

God bless,

L

[Mutt]

One thing I don't understand on this board, it seems everyone wants to beat up themselves for missing someone you love.  I never beat myself up for missing my ex, it's human, I loved her and still do, of course I miss her, I won't beat up myself for missing her, I think that is absurd on our part.

Agreed.

[myself]

I was thinking this last night. Grieving someone who is still alive has been keeping me stuck. We got more involved with our ex's than our family, in some ways, because we decided to. We open up differently in that kind of r/s. I was thinking it would be easier to deal with this if there had been a funeral, and the end was certain. As it is, we're both still kind of haunting each other. I miss mine too. The people I know who have passed away, it doesn't cross my mind to pick up the phone to talk with them about it. My ex? Myself? I sit here looking at the phone, wondering.

[Ironmanrises]

One thing I don't understand on this board, it seems everyone wants to beat up themselves for missing someone you love.  I never beat myself up for missing my ex, it's human, I loved her and still do, of course I miss her, I won't beat up myself for missing her, I think that is absurd on our part.

That is fine and dandy when referring to an ex without a personality disorder such as BPD. Read the accounts on here and you will have an understanding why we miss them as such. When a pwBPD enters, exits, reenters, exits again, and again and again; with the accompanying damage meted out to the non in the process during and after each upheaval, beating ourselves up is understandable in that context. Sure, we shouldn't beat ourselves up, but that is why.

[santa]

One thing I don't understand on this board, it seems everyone wants to beat up themselves for missing someone you love.  I never beat myself up for missing my ex, it's human, I loved her and still do, of course I miss her, I won't beat up myself for missing her, I think that is absurd on our part.

I understand your sentiment. I do.

What you've got to realize though is that my ex really was somewhat of a monster. I shouldn't miss her. She made my life a living hell for a long time. Sure, there were good things about her, but I honestly shouldn't miss her and when at times I do, it irritates me.

[Octoberfest]

One thing I don't understand on this board, it seems everyone wants to beat up themselves for missing someone you love.  I never beat myself up for missing my ex, it's human, I loved her and still do, of course I miss her, I won't beat up myself for missing her, I think that is absurd on our part.

Maybe it is a case by case basis.  I am with Santa on this one.  For many, many different reasons I can list off why I am way too good for my ex (note: it can still hold that she and I were emotionally near equals for each other, she was my first ever love or really prolonged interaction with a girl, at 19 years old, but I will stand 100% behind the statement that I am a much better person than her).  More than anything it irritates me and it hurts me that I give even a second of my time to thinking about her anymore. After the things she did to me, after the choices she made, she deserves literally nothing from me. Not even the time of day.  So I do beat myself up when I find myself thinking of her, because she is not worthy of a second of my time, yet i still find myself giving it to her.

The simple solution here is "stop thinking about her," but sadly it is easier said than done.  I am just really pushing to get into the mindset where I can say she is a hitty person not worth a second of my time, and believe it 100% of the time.  So I can be reminded of her for some reason and instantly say, "Thank god she is gone.  She was dragging me down and I deserve way better than her".

[Perfidy]

Thank all of you for replying. I am really grateful for this forum as a resource. I feel weak sometimes.

To all who have pointed out that the ex's really are not worthy of us thank you. I know this to be true. Anyone that treats me as poorly as she did is not worthy of me. Will the day come when I no longer have thought of her. Maybe a partial lobotomy. Castration. Lithium. Thorazine. And a hooker.

[Octoberfest]

It isn't her I long for and it isn't her that still bugs me... . It is the indiscretions that those closest to me, those I trusted most, carried out against me.  Her taking and abusing my love and desire to help her live a more whole life and using it to cheat for almost the entire 9 months we dated.  Going and sleeping with a close friend of mine.  Making out with my best friend.  Fooling around with other guys in my Fraternity.  The fact that all of those aforementioned guys would do that to me.  THAT is the part I struggle with. That so many people that I valued and trusted would be the ones who hurt me worse than anyone ever has before.

Letting go of the insult and the pain and the grief of being betrayed is what I truly struggle with.

[santa]

It isn't her I long for and it isn't her that still bugs me... . It is the indiscretions that those closest to me, those I trusted most, carried out against me.  Her taking and abusing my love and desire to help her live a more whole life and using it to cheat for almost the entire 9 months we dated.  Going and sleeping with a close friend of mine.  Making out with my best friend.  Fooling around with other guys in my Fraternity.  The fact that all of those aforementioned guys would do that to me.  THAT is the part I struggle with. That so many people that I valued and trusted would be the ones who hurt me worse than anyone ever has before.

Letting go of the insult and the pain and the grief of being betrayed is what I truly struggle with.

That's tough, man. You have every right to be upset.

At your age though, these things happen. Those guys more or less just see her as a slut. Most college guys will get with a slut if she makes herself available whether she's got a boyfriend or not. It's not cool that they did that, but it doesn't make them horrible people. You just got mixed up with a slutty girl and that's what slutty girls do.

When you're with a respectable girl and she loves you, this kind of thing won't happen.

[arn131arn]

It isn't her I long for and it isn't her that still bugs me... . It is the indiscretions that those closest to me, those I trusted most, carried out against me.  Her taking and abusing my love and desire to help her live a more whole life and using it to cheat for almost the entire 9 months we dated.  Going and sleeping with a close friend of mine.  Making out with my best friend.  Fooling around with other guys in my Fraternity.  The fact that all of those aforementioned guys would do that to me.  THAT is the part I struggle with. That so many people that I valued and trusted would be the ones who hurt me worse than anyone ever has before.

Letting go of the insult and the pain and the grief of being betrayed is what I truly struggle with.

Damn, October,

I really feel for you right now.  I thought I had it bad.  We are here for you, bro.  I hope every last one of them gets what's coming to them... . I really do

[Octoberfest]

It isn't her I long for and it isn't her that still bugs me... . It is the indiscretions that those closest to me, those I trusted most, carried out against me.  Her taking and abusing my love and desire to help her live a more whole life and using it to cheat for almost the entire 9 months we dated.  Going and sleeping with a close friend of mine.  Making out with my best friend.  Fooling around with other guys in my Fraternity.  The fact that all of those aforementioned guys would do that to me.  THAT is the part I struggle with. That so many people that I valued and trusted would be the ones who hurt me worse than anyone ever has before.

Letting go of the insult and the pain and the grief of being betrayed is what I truly struggle with.

That's tough, man. You have every right to be upset.

At your age though, these things happen. Those guys more or less just see her as a slut. Most college guys will get with a slut if she makes herself available whether she's got a boyfriend or not. It's not cool that they did that, but it doesn't make them horrible people. You just got mixed up with a slutty girl and that's what slutty girls do.

When you're with a respectable girl and she loves you, this kind of thing won't happen.

Different people have different sets of morals.  I personally think any dude who goes and gets with a girl, when knowing full well she has a boyfriend, is a scumbag.  What does that make someone who goes and gets with their very close friends girlfriend?  They may just be young and dumb. I get that people make mistakes.  But some mistakes are too grave to forgive.  

Monday night, after my Fraternities weekly meeting I wrote an email to the house VP informing him I would no longer be attending meeting.  I have included it below, as I think it conveys my beliefs better than I could convey paraphrasing it.

"<House VP>,

After doing some reflecting on what was said last night, I am writing to inform you that I will no longer be attending meeting. I went and spoke privately with <former close friend> afterwards and discussed some things. It ended with a handshake and I left. On the drive home it struck me that I had just shook hands with the guy who had ed my girlfriend. It further struck me that at the ending of each meeting, each time, I shake hands with the guy who ed my girlfriend, and assure him when he asks, that he will always find friendship in me. Afterwards I walk up to others who fooled around with my girlfriend and tell them I seek their friendship.

This is entirely hypocritical of me. I don't want or need their friendship, and I don't consider them friends. I dread each time I must shake their hand. As far as I am concerned, the whole "at the end of the day we are brothers" line is bull. Believing in that bond of brotherhood with these guys is what got me into trouble in the first place, because I didn't think for a second that my brothers, my friends, would go behind my back and get with my girlfriend. Being "brothers" does not give someone a pass to be a piece of  in my book.

I will be paying my dues. I will be coming to the house to see those I consider friends. I have told you, I believe, a little about my summer, but for the entire past year and a half I have been on a pretty big journey to learn to respect myself. And playing nice with guys who took advantage of my trust and ed around with my girlfriend is not doing that.

I do not need "friends" badly enough that I will pretend I was not, or overlook that I was,  disrespected, lied to, and taken advantage of by those who now seek to pretend like nothing happened. Unfortunately, through (or lack thereof) the actions of some, very, very little of the literature of <Fraternity>, which I so dearly loved, holds any water for me anymore and now comes off as phony baloney bull.

I refuse to continue to act like I was not wronged, and I refuse to give those responsible a free pass for it. They deserve nothing from me.

Best,

Octoberfest "

Santa, maybe we handle things differently.  But I can't be insulted like that and just forget.  I hold things like honor, integrity, and loyalty very close to my heart.  And all those I believed to also have those things proved me deathly wrong.  I have pretended and tried to get past it and salvage some kind of working/cordial relationship with these guys for over a year now.  And I am done.  As I wrote, they deserve nothing from me.

It isn't her I long for and it isn't her that still bugs me... . It is the indiscretions that those closest to me, those I trusted most, carried out against me.  Her taking and abusing my love and desire to help her live a more whole life and using it to cheat for almost the entire 9 months we dated.  Going and sleeping with a close friend of mine.  Making out with my best friend.  Fooling around with other guys in my Fraternity.  The fact that all of those aforementioned guys would do that to me.  THAT is the part I struggle with. That so many people that I valued and trusted would be the ones who hurt me worse than anyone ever has before.

Letting go of the insult and the pain and the grief of being betrayed is what I truly struggle with.

Damn, October,

I really feel for you right now.  I thought I had it bad.  We are here for you, bro.  I hope every last one of them gets what's coming to them... . I really do

Appreciate it Arn.  I have many things to be thankful for though as well.  I am not bound to my BPDex in any way shape or form, besides whatever lies in my mind.  That can be undone, with time.  

[Bach Cantatas]

I was thinking this last night. Grieving someone who is still alive has been keeping me stuck. We got more involved with our ex's than our family, in some ways, because we decided to. We open up differently in that kind of r/s. I was thinking it would be easier to deal with this if there had been a funeral, and the end was certain. As it is, we're both still kind of haunting each other. I miss mine too. The people I know who have passed away, it doesn't cross my mind to pick up the phone to talk with them about it. My ex? Myself? I sit here looking at the phone, wondering.

This is absolutely spot on!

I lost both my beloved parents suddenly in a short space of time and the religious rituals and societal procedures that followed helped deal with the traumas well. The trauma resulting from my four year relationship with an udBPDgf has been very different. The analogy of "haunting" used above is very perceptive.

[Changingman]

Thank all of you for replying. I am really grateful for this forum as a resource. I feel weak sometimes.

To all who have pointed out that the ex's really are not worthy of us thank you. I know this to be true. Anyone that treats me as poorly as she did is not worthy of me. Will the day come when I no longer have thought of her. Maybe a partial lobotomy. Castration. Lithium. Thorazine. And a hooker.

Maybe a partial lobotomy. Castration. Lithium. Thorazine. And a hooker.

Perfect, You have just described my xRS.

[damage control]

@Octoberfest

That was a great letter - I hope every person who betrayed you feels its sting for a long time. Good for you.

@Perdy

I to have lost parents - both before I turned 24. And yes, the loss is great but yes, it is also different, I agree.

My mother didn't betray me right before she died, she didn't leave me for another daughter or go behind my back to seek out the company of other daughters because I had triggered the hit out of her and she was too enmeshed in her pathologies to see it ... she died the way she lived and our relationship was intact when she went. This is the difference and why it is difficult to get past the death of these relationships - because we mourn what we have lost, but nobody mourns with us, least of all the other party in the relationship (how on earth could he mourn when he has his hand up someone else's dress 90% of the time?).

We get the shock of death, the bereavement but on top of that, our pride gets demolished with the realisation of the betrayals.

I hope tomorrow is better for you hun. x

[janey62]

I was thinking this last night. Grieving someone who is still alive has been keeping me stuck. We got more involved with our ex's than our family, in some ways, because we decided to. We open up differently in that kind of r/s. I was thinking it would be easier to deal with this if there had been a funeral, and the end was certain. As it is, we're both still kind of haunting each other. I miss mine too. The people I know who have passed away, it doesn't cross my mind to pick up the phone to talk with them about it. My ex? Myself? I sit here looking at the phone, wondering.

Hi All,

I'm still in the process of detaching from r/s with uBPDbf, and I anticipate its going to be hard.  I do know a bit about grieving for lost loved ones and I think this is a bit different because, as some of you have said, they are alive, walking around and there is still the tantalizing possibility that we will see them and reengage with them at some point.  This possibility keeps the grieving alive and more painful for longer in my opinion.  The grieving is further complicated by our perceived part in it all and we torture ourselves with what ifs... .

So the grieving process for this has to be different.  It's a bit like an addict giving up their drug of choice (something I know a bit about because I'm an addictions counsellor), the substance is still available, if not in reality then in fantasy, and so its harder to detach ourselves, and most addicts would never give up if there were no consequences to using, because they love the effect. 

I feel for you Perfidy, you are suffering!  The advice I would give a recovering addict, which might kind of apply in our situations, is this: 

- keep writing your gratitude list, daily,

- keep reminding yourself of the things that made it so hard to be with this person (drug), why it had to end, but without bitterness if possible (I think bitterness is regret in disguise)

- allow yourself small bursts of thinking and feeling about this and then cut it short (this takes some - practice but is possible), you do it by taking charge of your thought processes, tell yourself to stop now! (feelings are actually thoughts which cause a physical reaction due to their intensity), also by distracting yourself from the thinking

- don't try to stop yourself from feeling and grieving, just don't let it take you over

- cry sometimes if you can, its a great way of releasing

- stay busy and active doing things you like doing

- don't spend too much time alone for obvious reasons

- spend time with friends/family who are positive and will cheer you up

- if you think you might be depressed talk to your doctor about it

- take care of yourself, feed yourself well and try to set a good sleeping routine, staying up late is a disaster because that's the time when thoughts (feelings) can run wild, when its dark and you're alone,

- keep talking about how you feel, its safer to express how you feel to someone else than to sit ruminating alone because it has a beginning a middle and an end, when alone it can just go on and on... .

I don't know if any of this is helpful, you've probably thought of it all yourself, but I know its helped me in the past and seems to be useful for people when they've lost/given up something or someone.

Grieving is a process and it moves and changes, sometimes backwards for a bit, but it does get there in the end... .  

I'll be applying all of this to myself soon     

xx Jane

[LilMissSunshine]

Thank all of you for replying. I am really grateful for this forum as a resource. I feel weak sometimes.

To all who have pointed out that the ex's really are not worthy of us thank you. I know this to be true. Anyone that treats me as poorly as she did is not worthy of me. Will the day come when I no longer have thought of her. Maybe a partial lobotomy.  Castration . Lithium. Thorazine. And a  hooker .

Maybe a partial lobotomy. Castration. Lithium. Thorazine. And a hooker.

Perfect, You have just described my xRS.

Can't have both guys, gotta choose one     Go for the hooker.

[Perfidy]

Jane... Your reply outlines my course of action in detail. Some of the things that are hard for me to swallow... The FOO issues. At this point I don't really make the connection because I feel that my current feelings are of my own making and that I am responsible for them. Not my parents. I'm not willing to share or place blame on anyone that wasn't in the relationship with me. 

[janey62]

I know the foo stuff is relevant to a great extent, but I don't know how helpful it is to go digging around in that mire at a moment when our resources are so low? 

My mother was probably uBPD, something I've realised because of this current relationship and what I've learned from this forum.  My childhood was messed up and I've been messed up for most of my adult life.  I know now how it has affected my relationships, mainly, and what I do that attracts unhealthy attachments to me, and the sad drama I'm acting out over and over, and I'm beginning to see what needs to be done about it.  Take the time to heal, stop grabbing at the first person who comes along and shows an interest in me, actually assess the suitability of prospective mates for a romantic partnership.  Don't try to apportion blame to the past or anyone else, just learn how to take the practical steps necessary to grow up and out of who I was and how I behaved, even if they're hard to do.

I wish you peace tonight.  You're doing ok, (so am I) just keep telling yourself that and you will be ok 

Jane

[charred]

I have said many times that the breakup from a BPD r/s is like a parent dying, or worse. If you are in a BPD r/s... . very good chance your FOO issues go back to having a parent that wasn't unconditionally loving/supportive when you needed it... . however that could happen very early on, people don't remember what happened till they were about 4-5 yrs old and even then if it was bad they tend to block it out. So... if your pwBPD took a parent spot with you, and you found your r/s being a parent-child like thing... then the breakup can be devastating. Unlike a real death, they are still around... they just have abandoned you... . which is ironic since that is what they most fear

Some of the pain is probably from the contrast... there was a bit of time with my pwBPD when it seemed like the world was right... I felt like everything was magic... like being a happy kid on Christmas. My emotions were unlocked, felt alive and the roller coaster ride while rough, had made me feel alive again. My pwBPD was so intense... and contacted me constantly, was interested in every little thing I did or acted it anyway. Then when the breakup was final... . dead silence. Had been isolated from family, friends, even had a job loss that distanced me from people I worked with... and the silence was deafening. The world didn't seem right anymore... it seemed empty, my head said everything was better, but I was going through the grieving process. Dated other people... and found my confidence was gone, my exBPDgf was on my mind, even when having sex with someone else... . and I had very little motivation for  better than a year. After about 18 months... finally started feeling like I had reached the acceptance stage... started getting motivated, and my outlook is better... but nothing like when the world was right and I was with her. Knowing it was not authentic/genuine love, was not same for her, was not based on reality but on need and egoic defenses... . bums me out still.

The pwBPD filled the hole we have inside from our FOO and early developmental trauma... . and we feel really good, maybe for the first time... and losing that is like adding a giant insult to the core injury we have. I quit ruminating about the r/s and accept it is over, but I think back on things from growing up and finally see the issues and still can feel the pain of it. Its like the pwBPD pulled off the old band aid and dumped alcohol on the wounds.

Maybe its just me... hope you all don't feel same way.

[Perfidy]

Charred... I've heard that from others also, about the FOO. I've heard similar references from my counselor, although I tend to agree with her that mostly my misery is self made through my own poor choices, and I can see how my younger life and family of origin could have had an effect on my choices. I can see some kind of connection with the FOO, and yes, I felt that I lived the pwBPD like no other in my life, and I, like you, am extremely disappointed that it wasn't what I thought it was. It was an illusion based on need and lack of identity. That part I can see clearly. I sure as hell didn't need her, I wanted her. She needed someone, turns out it wasn't me.

[Moonie75]

I was thinking this last night. Grieving someone who is still alive has been keeping me stuck. We got more involved with our ex's than our family, in some ways, because we decided to. We open up differently in that kind of r/s. I was thinking it would be easier to deal with this if there had been a funeral, and the end was certain. As it is, we're both still kind of haunting each other. I miss mine too. The people I know who have passed away, it doesn't cross my mind to pick up the phone to talk with them about it. My ex? Myself? I sit here looking at the phone, wondering.

This is absolutely spot on!

I lost both my beloved parents suddenly in a short space of time and the religious rituals and societal procedures that followed helped deal with the traumas well. The trauma resulting from my four year relationship with an udBPDgf has been very different. The analogy of "haunting" used above is very perceptive.

Yes! Haunted, is exactly how I feel about my BPDex!

Whether we haunt each other? I'm doubtful!

I too have grieved family & friends after death, and agree the finality of it gives closure.

I've also grieved relationships that failed, and those ex's are still alive & hopefully well. But I don't feel 'haunted' by those girls. I think it's because those girls moved on & are healthy. I've no reason to believe they will sabotage their love lives & return to me. Just as I would not do it to them. So there is acceptance & closure there as well.

But my uBPDex, she undoubtedly haunts me!

She was never truly here, and I will never know if she's truly gone, or about to reappear!

[charred]

Sounds like we are in about the same general place... . the r/s is over... we are in various stages of grieving and accepting it all, are bummed it wasn't real, are bugged that we had more issues than we ever thought... . and are unclear just what can be done to fix ancient FOO issues.

Bought a book called "Healing Developmental Trauma"... and recoiled at it... hated it ... at first, then reread it and realized it bugged me because it hit way too close to home. Described the effects growing up with FOO issues has on your personality... and they didn't go to BPD... just in general the effects. Things like suppressing your emotions... keeping people at a bit of a distance to protect yourself from hurt... and then how the ego defense for being that way is that you become fiercely proud of being a loner/individualist that doesn't need people. Lot of things that to me added up to ... most of what I took pride in was avoiding something that hurt as a kid, not working toward anything positive that I really wanted as an adult. Problem is I have been around NPD dad, BPD mom, histrionic exwife and BPDgf  for most of my life... and while all of that drama and antagonism is familiar... it has taken a toll... I have trouble identifying anything I want. Wanted the r/s with the pwBPD to work... and it didn't in such an overwhelming way... been seeing a T for PTSD from it. The book I mentioned is enlightening... . but should have been called "The effects of Developmental Trauma"... as there isn't a clear prescription for healing... . far as I could tell.

That is what I want... a redo with great parents... would be curious how my life would have been... . but, I think we have to play out the hand we were dealt.