Is it typical of them to be in denial of their disorder

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

A mutual friend mentioned to my ex that i thought she had BPD. She of course denied it. But is a normal response?

[Pinoypride18]

A mutual friend mentioned to my ex that i thought she had BPD. She of course denied it. But is a normal response?

[Moonie75]

Is this a serious question?

[growing_wings]

absolutely.

mine would tell that everyone around her (that does not do as she says, or has the guts to stand up to her) has serious mental illness (EVERYONE, except her).

Once i asked if she thought she had any mental illness, i didnt even implied she had one, she went to a massive defensive attitude followed by a rage. at the end, i was told i was a severe case of mental illness.

[happylogist]

Would be very strange if she gladly agreed.  First of all, it is a condition that associated with a lot of stigma and negativity... .   Also diagnosing any pathological mental condition is a very sensitive topic, which should be handed by professionals and not friends and exes who diagnose... .

If you want to help - ask a person to see a professional and describe the traits, for example - being depressed or easily angry, push/pull people, not loving herself/himself enough rather than diagnose. Still even these might bring a lot of resentment and defensiveness... .

[ogopogodude]

Is this a serious question?

Moonie75, ... . go easy on the newbie.  I think I asked this exact Q when I first found these forums... .

[delusionalxox]

'Once i asked if she thought she had any mental illness, i didnt even implied she had one, she went to a massive defensive attitude followed by a rage. at the end, i was told i was a severe case of mental illness.'

Yet again people on this forum have lived my life 

What made it worse is I admitted to having mental illness myself (bipolar type ii/chronic depression, diagnosis uncertain). This made me a 'psycho' while he of course was mentally completely 'healthy' purely because he does not suffer from depression  My being 'mentally ill' also invalidated every reasonable opinion I held and meant I should really just shut up and take instruction from him as the 'healthier person'.

[Ironmanrises]

Yes.

[growing_wings]

'Once i asked if she thought she had any mental illness, i didnt even implied she had one, she went to a massive defensive attitude followed by a rage. at the end, i was told i was a severe case of mental illness.'

Yet again people on this forum have lived my life 

What made it worse is I admitted to having mental illness myself (bipolar type ii/chronic depression, diagnosis uncertain). This made me a 'psycho' while he of course was mentally completely 'healthy' purely because he does not suffer from depression  My being 'mentally ill' also invalidated every reasonable opinion I held and meant I should really just shut up and take instruction from him as the 'healthier person'.

delusional, i agree with you, when i read stuff in here i also recognize that the similarities in experiences are quite  unbelievable!

sorry to read above indeed... . , at least this support forum helps a LOT!

[Pearl55]

All of them know something is seriously wrong with them. But SHAME keeps them in denial and prevents them to confront the reality. So many times they project their illness to their partners and they have this logic ( for example they might test their partners to see if they love them and when you passed all their tests they think what's wrong with you because you love a broken and abnormal person!)

There is a no win situation with a borderline. The only way to win is to be out their sick GAMES!

[maxen]

yes it is typical. i wouldn't say it's fundamental, because there are pwBPD who have insight and who are willing to go through the therapy needed to moderate their behaviors, but these are a small minority.

the denial of the disorder is closely linked to the projection, the accusations against others of the things they themselves display. my w's projections were outrageous. and afaik nobody has ever held a mirror to her life to show her her patterns. so she doesn't have a clue, from within herself or from others.

[lost not dead]

When I first realized my exwife might have BPD it was a shock to me. I studied it some as an undergrad but never saw it clearly. I shared my findings with her out of ignorance and hope. She took several self tests and called me broken and crying. She apologized for everything she had done to me and the kids and swore she would get help beause she for sure had it.

Well in her fashion she interviewed several Ts over the phone till she found a weak one and went to see him. In 3 months she had him convinced I was the problem and I was worried he was right. My T was not happy and asked me to see about going with her to her T. We went together and after the first session I realized how much she was lying to both of us and so did he. He moved her from once a month to biweekly and want more frequent visits but she refused.  He asked both of us if he could confer with my T and we granted permission. After her rage for what happened in the following weeks, including assaulting me, she proclaimed I was the one with the problem and I should be locked up.

So yes for a fleeting moment she was self aware but did everything she could to bolster her mask back up.

[atcrossroads]

Yes, yes, yes!

My stb ex BPD/npd husband recognized he had a problem -- anger/depression/anxiety.  He also read a book on narcissistic mothers and recognized his mother's issues (I think BPD/npd) and to some degree how they affected him.  

He went to a few sessions of DBT therapy (suggested by a doctor to him after he melted down a few years back and wanted to admit himself to get help) -- he came home from first session raving that it was the first therapist who seemed to get him so spot on.  Of course the therapists there do not tell HIM him he is BPD.  They told me they couldn't tell me if he was diagnosed (after a test) but said, "We would NOT suggest he do therapy with us if he weren't."  Hmm.  

Well, they insisted he do group therapy 1x a week with a bunch of low-functioning BPD women.  He was fine with the individual and did all his mindulness HW and really liked it and was improving, but he got in a fight with therapist about the group requirement and quit after about 1 month in a storm of anger -- literally stormed out of his appt.  

We are now close to being officially divorced -- during our separation, he has brought up me thinking he had BPD and adamantly denied it.  He's also accused me several times of being "mentally unstable" and has told several of my family members that they need to get me help.

So, yes, it's recommended that you never tell a BPD (especially high functioning ones) that you think they are BPD.  It will backfire in the worst possible way.

Good luck.

[growing_wings]

( for example they might test their partners to see if they love them and when you passed all their tests they think what's wrong with you because you love a broken and abnormal person!)

Pearl, you are right there... mine used to say that friends and partners had to pass this kind of recruitment test... .

and it is precisely when you pass their tests that things go down the hole and I went down that very hole myself too!

[growing_wings]

 He's also accused me several times of being "mentally unstable" and has told several of my family members that they need to get me help.

yup... . she told our common friends i was very ill and needed support ... similarities again. Although i recognize i have my own issues to deal with, i think there is a whole lot of projection going in her accusations... .

[atcrossroads]

 He's also accused me several times of being "mentally unstable" and has told several of my family members that they need to get me help.

yup... . she told our common friends i was very ill and needed support ... similarities again. Although i recognize i have my own issues to deal with, i think there is a whole lot of projection going in her accusations... .

Yes, TONS of projections about so many things.  Projection is very frustrating to deal with and hard sometimes to defend against.

[Pearl55]

Sometimes you even beleive their projections especially if your husband is a psychiatrist himself!

[growing_wings]

Sometimes you even beleive their projections especially if your husband is a psychiatrist himself!

Pearl, very true. My god, i started to believe on her projections, I started doubting myself and for a long time i thought it was me with BPD! i felt i was going crazy. Let alone if you hear those words from a physchiatrist husband. glad you are out of the FOG

[Pretty Woman]

Yes. It is NEVER their fault. Ever. Even if they cheat on you, leave you and come back... . still not their fault. YOU are the reason they cheated.

They cannot accept any wrongdoing. You will rarely if ever hear the words "sorry". It is not in their vocabulary.

Do not EVER tell an undiagnosed BPD they might have it, either. They will flip that shiz on you and try to convince you that you have it and are crazy. Don't mention this to their family either. Usually these people are their biggest enablers and you will only make yourself look as she's probably been painting you since the breakup... . needy, desperate, a psycho even. 

So short answer YES and long answer don't try to even convince her otherwise. It's futile.

[allweareisallweare]

This is why - well it's a major why - I won't break NC. If I thought I could get the ex to understand the ending of our relationship in the context of her illness - and she is diagnosed and she was the one who told me she had BPD which has been a MASSIVE ... . help, as I don't have to clutch at straws - then perhaps I can achieve a little closure. I have learnt so much about BPD over the past six months; I wish I knew what I know now then, but that's not the way knowledge works. I didn't foresee the person moving onto someone else/the relationship imploding - I could see manifestations of BPD within that relationship, behaviorally, etc

If I could message ****** and say "Look, I know you're ill, you're going to face this for the rest of your life." But it's not enough to make them become empathetic or loving as they don't know that, and they forfeited such chances when they left, and it is also an altruistic act for someone else and they don't believe in such things.

So in conclusion... . whilst even so my ex KNOWS she has the illness and has been diagnosed, the outcomes aren't any different in terms of what closure you'll get etc - because it's not going to be the case that they say: "I know I'm ill, I know I f*3424d things up because of this, I'm sorry"

Sadly.

[Changingman]

Hey, at first they're a bit kooky, party time, great drinkers, fun drug users, filthy in bed... .

Then they have a panic attack, wow that's weird... .

They then cry over something... .

They can be a bit crazy... .

People at work have it in for them... .

They really drink too much and like coke too much... .

God it's hard getting the rent out of her... .

They are alcoholics, T hATs why they are so messed up in the head... .

Why has she never got any money, alcoholic and too many drugs... .

They can really get angry, and aggressive when they feel wronged... .

God she flirts a bit much when she's drunk, which is a lot... .

She's a pain in the A, gonna make an effort to cut down her drinking... .

She's really crazy, it's dangerous for her to be so out of it on her own... .

Oh god., another crisis that job is murder... .

Sometimes she is just stupid with her decisions... .

God I'm exhausted, where is she... .

Oh god she might be dead... .

She has gone really distant... .

She is so odd sometimes... .

Odd things she is saying make no sense... .

F*** she is a psycho or something... .

She's gone?

Who's ?

Is it alcoholism I don't really know,... .

BPD? What's that

Oh Lord I'm gonna faint!

But that means

Oh Lord she is mentally ill

[maxen]

Don't mention this to their family either. Usually these people are their biggest enablers

that certainly is my experience, and it's one of the most angering things

[bpdspell]

A mutual friend mentioned to my ex that i thought she had BPD. She of course denied it. But is a normal response?

Is water wet?

Denial is the crux of those who are mentally ill. You will be hard pressed to find those who are wired "differently" to admit to a mental illness. Those with undiagnosed BPD will certainly deny, deny, deny as it is a shame based disorder rooted in feelings of worthlessness.

We also have to accept that the way that they think and view the world is "their" normal. It is hard wired into their personality and unlikely to change unless they hit rock bottom…and even then most will lack the insight to be motivated to get help.

It is a very sad, sad, sad disorder to have. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Spell

[myself]

I sat down with her, as a friend, as someone who cared, offering to help her find help for what were obviously mental health problems. She broke up with me, saying I was crazy. That everything going wrong with us was my fault. She said I needed help (she was right). I first heard of BPD when she accused me and someone else she knew of having it. What an eye opener it has been to look into it. Look at their projections. They're very telling about how they see themselves. What they are avoiding.

[almostmarried]

Hahaha... here some quotes from my ex-bp-gf:

"Germans are all asss."

"Italians are all asss."

"The English are all asss,of course."

"French are total asss."

"S. is the love of my life."... . while cheating on  him with J... . for decades.

"Every relationship will be like this in 100 years!"

"Some men have to be manipulated!"

"Everybody at my job has to be fired!"

"I`m mentally ahead of you... . all of you!"

And now,listen to this... .

"I had with S. anal intercourse because it was a present to him... . "

ANY MORE?

No.

[Changingman]

It does seem when I look back that they say things out loud about what they will later do. I guess their feelings turn into failings.

He is really interesting = I'm gonna sleep with him

You're not sleeping with your female friends are you? = I'm sleeping with my male friends

She was aware of something very wrong with her, I kind of think she knew... . Waif siren... . I think she knows... .

You can't be that pathologically afraid to be alone without knowing... . can you?

She was very plastic and dull without the chaos, dull and boring really, empty would be a better word for it. So full of worthless shallow emotion and nothing else. Couldn't generate any ' Heat ' on her own, everyone else had to supply it. The flirting and provoking was her generating something.

[Madison66]

My experience is a cross section of all of the previous posts.  My uBPD/NPD ex gf was the master at projection and denial.  Our first T saw through it all and separated us after a few sessions to dig into my ex's teen sexual abuse at the hands of a female coach.  For a couple weeks, my ex acknowledged the abuse had a profound affect an her and she carried tremendous guilt and shame blaming herself.  Then, we had a ill timed couples session where she got emotionally dysregulated and would never go back.  I continued to see the T (still do today) and she would only say that she saw traits of a number of PD's along with an emotional age of about 15.  When we went to other T's, my ex would straight up deny that the sexual abuse had any long term affect on her and that it had nothing to do with her emotional blow-ups or emotional blackmail/abuse of me.  It just didn't exist and she'd try to paint me as the one with the problems.  I remember once really pushing that she needed to get help and she responded that she felt like she was being "analyzed" and then went into a rage and devaluation of me.  I have a strong feeling she'd been told in the past that she may be BPD because she once told me she thought her 10 year old daughter may be BPD, and their emotional dyregulation is very similar.     

Any time I now have a fleeting thought that the problems were all mine or that she may not be BPD/NPD, I read through the 16 typed pages of crazy and hurtful incidences I poured out on paper after I finally left the r/s.  Yes, I have remorse for some things I did and said in the r/s and then I go back to my gut - no healthy person would act and treat me like she did.  Healthy, not healthy or just plain toxic - I won't spend another minute of my life with this person or anyone like her.