Just trying to figure things out

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and wanted to introduce myself.  I am already divorced for 4 years after a 27 yr marriage, and I am having difficulty moving on.

I think I really needed to know what I was dealing with when I was married, so that I can deal with it better, and finally get on with my life. 

I've been on other forums, such as abuse forums, alcoholism forums, etc... . but none of them described my exh's behavior as well as this forum did. 

Even describing my marriage is difficult.  I never knew what was going on.  He loved me, he hated me, would scream at me "who can even care about you, I don't", then he would go to sleep, get up, and I was the best thing that ever happened to him. 

When he got in his "mood", he either totally ignored me, or he would rage at me.  When he would rage, his face completely changed, it was like he didn't even see me.  His eyes would bug out, but look dead, his face would turn red, the veins in his neck would pop out, he would spit when he yelled.  He could do that for a few minutes, or for hours.  Sometimes he wouldn't stop pushing me until I had a reaction to it, and I started to sound as crazy as him, and then he would smirk, like he enjoyed it. 

He would tell me that when you fight, the other person is the enemy, so you can do and say anything, because its only a fight, then after you get everything out, you just get over it. 

I was not allowed to be upset with him, it would just make him mad.  (his words).  He even told a psychologist this once in my presence.

He was a "runner".  He ran away from home all the time.  First it started with a weekend, then a week, then 2 or 3 months.  He would come home and expect me to welcome him home with open arms, because according to him, I should have been over it, after all, we didn't fight during that time.  That's only because he would not answer his cell phone, he would not contact me at all, or if he did, it was to yell at me or to ignore me. 

I developed PTSD from all of this.  When I first divorced, I never considered finding someone else, I was done with relationships, but now that I am out 4 years I find myself considering it. 

Does this behavior sound like BPD?

When he wasn't hating me, I was the best, and he couldn't live without me.  He would call me 10 times a day from work, I couldn't even watch TV without holding his hand the whole time, in bed he had to hold on to me like I was his "teddy bear", (his words)

He caused me to be afraid of sex.  For an 18 month period of time (I did keep a journal), if we had sex, 2 days later he would disappear, because according to him, I didn't enjoy it.  I could never convince him otherwise. 

I left him on NYE.  He called and told me he wouldn't be home that night, I told him that I was already on my way to my friends house that he didn't want to go to, even though they were his best friends.  I never went back.  He filed for the divorce because I embarrassed him by leaving.  In a way I forced him to do that, because if I had filed, he might have kept coming back.  With him filing, I knew he wouldn't.

So now I am left with a lot of triggers, anxiety and panic attacks, and I need to move past all of this, so that one day, I might have a normal life and not be afraid of trying a new relationship.

Thanks for reading 

[jynx]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and wanted to introduce myself.  I am already divorced for 4 years after a 27 yr marriage, and I am having difficulty moving on.

I think I really needed to know what I was dealing with when I was married, so that I can deal with it better, and finally get on with my life. 

I've been on other forums, such as abuse forums, alcoholism forums, etc... . but none of them described my exh's behavior as well as this forum did. 

Even describing my marriage is difficult.  I never knew what was going on.  He loved me, he hated me, would scream at me "who can even care about you, I don't", then he would go to sleep, get up, and I was the best thing that ever happened to him. 

When he got in his "mood", he either totally ignored me, or he would rage at me.  When he would rage, his face completely changed, it was like he didn't even see me.  His eyes would bug out, but look dead, his face would turn red, the veins in his neck would pop out, he would spit when he yelled.  He could do that for a few minutes, or for hours.  Sometimes he wouldn't stop pushing me until I had a reaction to it, and I started to sound as crazy as him, and then he would smirk, like he enjoyed it. 

He would tell me that when you fight, the other person is the enemy, so you can do and say anything, because its only a fight, then after you get everything out, you just get over it. 

I was not allowed to be upset with him, it would just make him mad.  (his words).  He even told a psychologist this once in my presence.

He was a "runner".  He ran away from home all the time.  First it started with a weekend, then a week, then 2 or 3 months.  He would come home and expect me to welcome him home with open arms, because according to him, I should have been over it, after all, we didn't fight during that time.  That's only because he would not answer his cell phone, he would not contact me at all, or if he did, it was to yell at me or to ignore me. 

I developed PTSD from all of this.  When I first divorced, I never considered finding someone else, I was done with relationships, but now that I am out 4 years I find myself considering it. 

Does this behavior sound like BPD?

When he wasn't hating me, I was the best, and he couldn't live without me.  He would call me 10 times a day from work, I couldn't even watch TV without holding his hand the whole time, in bed he had to hold on to me like I was his "teddy bear", (his words)

He caused me to be afraid of sex.  For an 18 month period of time (I did keep a journal), if we had sex, 2 days later he would disappear, because according to him, I didn't enjoy it.  I could never convince him otherwise. 

I left him on NYE.  He called and told me he wouldn't be home that night, I told him that I was already on my way to my friends house that he didn't want to go to, even though they were his best friends.  I never went back.  He filed for the divorce because I embarrassed him by leaving.  In a way I forced him to do that, because if I had filed, he might have kept coming back.  With him filing, I knew he wouldn't.

So now I am left with a lot of triggers, anxiety and panic attacks, and I need to move past all of this, so that one day, I might have a normal life and not be afraid of trying a new relationship.

Thanks for reading 

[mgl210]

Hello,

I know its tough. You find yourself asking all these questions that you wish you could have answers for and alas, You know that it might never happen. I am in that boat now, asking myself all the questions to dead air. Welcome to this support group. The people here are just really great...

[santa]

What you described about having horrible fights and then waking up the next morning and it being like nothing ever happened is absolutely BPD. It's called splicing. It used to happen a lot with my ex.

Basically, splicing is like editing out certain things so that you can move forward without having to deal with what happened. It's like how directors cut movies. It would be too hard to face what happened the night before and continue with the relationship, so the quick fix is just to pretend it never happened and just pick up where you left off before the fight happened. I got into the habit of doing this with my ex. I didn't even realize I was doing it until someone else pointed it out to me. It's kind of creepy when you think about it. That's exactly what happened though.

[jynx]

Thanks for the welcome here.

"Splicing", I never heard of that.  The first thing that I ever tried to check on the internet was how could he rage at me for hours, then go to bed, fall asleep within 2 minutes, and then the next day it never happened.  I could never figure that out, because I was up all night too upset to sleep, and shaking.  But, this makes sense to me because of his childhood, he did that to block out his fathers rages, and he was never allowed to bring his fathers rages up the next day.  It was like it never happened. 

You solved one mystery for me.  That one really boggled my mind. 

Thanks

I know I will never find all the answers that I am looking for, I spent years doing this.  It's just really comforting to be around people who understand what I am talking about.

[mgl210]

Jynx,

Like I said before, I understand how you would want answers. I want answers too. It seems that even if I was to talk to her, I still wouldn't get the answers that I wanted. One of the questions I asked her before she and I split was " If your ex fiance(recovering heroin and alcoholic and MARRIED) came into your life and asked you to meet up with him, would you? her response? " I don't know what I would do... . "

Its tough and it feels like no one truly understands. But like I said before, you came to a great group of people here. They will be suipport for both of us and the others that come on. I hope you a speedy recovery faster than mine will be... . Best wishes

MG

[jynx]

mgl,

I actually did give up trying to get answers, simply because the answers would make no sense to me anyway.  The last question that I did have was how long would my ex last with new gf.  I don't care about that either anymore !

She lost, I won. 

What I need is simple understanding of BPD to help me to get over my PTSD and other things, because I do want to learn that I may be able to trust another person.  I want to be able to stop freaking out when someone asks me a simple question, like, where would you like to go to eat.  Those ?'s freak me out.  I feel like am always going to give the wrong answer. 

I'll be reading around here for a lot of coping skills, and posting here when I see red flags, to try to figure out if they really are, or if it's my triggers.


I don't feel alone anymore, been reading around here all day today, this is a terrific forum with so many terrific people here.

[santa]

Thanks for the welcome here.

"Splicing", I never heard of that.  The first thing that I ever tried to check on the internet was how could he rage at me for hours, then go to bed, fall asleep within 2 minutes, and then the next day it never happened.  I could never figure that out, because I was up all night too upset to sleep, and shaking.  But, this makes sense to me because of his childhood, he did that to block out his fathers rages, and he was never allowed to bring his fathers rages up the next day.  It was like it never happened. 

You solved one mystery for me.  That one really boggled my mind. 

Thanks

I know I will never find all the answers that I am looking for, I spent years doing this.  It's just really comforting to be around people who understand what I am talking about.

You're welcome. Glad I could help.

I think when alcohol is involved, they're able to do the "splicing" easier because "they were just drunk" or "they're a mean drunk" or whatever. My ex used to be super sweet all day and then start the worst fights after a few drinks. Like, just awful drunken rages with violence and me having to sleep in a locked closet or bathroom floor just to get away from her. These incidents would happen after a happy day with no problems. I would make the excuse for her that it was just the alcohol. The reality of it was that she was just a mean person and would use the drinking as a way to go ballistic without being held accountable for it... . because that wasn't really her, right? It was just the alcohol. Her mom does the same. A complete monster after a few drinks. Then the next day nothing happened. Alcohol is just their mechanism to pretend like nothing happened.

[jynx]

Alcohol was involved a lot with my ex.  He was a total monster then.  I used to sleep in my car with the door locked, but then he didn't even need the alcohol anymore.  I blamed the alcohol, until he began this without it.  He tried to not drink around me because of the times he did physically abuse me, but the last time that he threw a cup at me and gave me a black eye, he wasn't drinking.  It happened because he said he was leaving and I can't make him stay, and I just said OK, so please leave.

[Inside]

Jynx,

This struck me: “He would tell me that when you fight, the other person is the enemy, so you can do and say anything, because its only a fight, then after you get everything out, you just get over it.”

Wow, I'd have to return to grade school to relate to that one.  We’d meet after school to fight, then likely return as friends after pounding the crap out of each other … but that was 6th grade!  It’s said pwBPD behave like children that can’t grow up - that sounds like proof.

“Does this behavior sound like BPD?”

It does to me…  and then some! 

Jynx, my marriage of 29 years ended with a woman diagnosed with ‘adult onset anxiety syndrome.’  3 years later I met my undiagnosed (to my knowledge) BPD girlfriend.  Took me about a year and a half to discover the BPD, her case appears one of “high functioning.”  It’s shaken me hard … we had seven ‘recycles.’  I’ve not finished reading your post, or responses to it, but he is the ‘crazy one,’ not you … it took me awhile to determine that in my relationship… 

…I don’t know how you lasted 27 years…  I don’t think my uBPDgf and I lasted 27 months!  Did you have children... ?  Walking on eggshells for that long …don’t know how you can even stand up.  You must have exceptional strength… OK, I’d better see what others think.

You said: “The last question that I did have was how long would my ex last with new gf.  I don't care about that either anymore !

She lost, I won.”

That’s the attitude

You said: “I feel like am always going to give the wrong answer.”

Classic

You said: “…this is a terrific forum with so many terrific people here.”

Isn’t this something…  I’m a ‘forum moderator’ on an unrelated site and only wish (or maybe not... ) we had this volume of activity and consistent quality of contributors.  Their character is impressive.  As I’ve said before, BPD’s may be nuts – but they target some wonderful folks.  I’m glad you found this place …only wish you could have found it (had it been around) a couple decades sooner.  …it seems we’re all comrades in arms, having fought a battle and enemy others would have to experience themselves to understand the ferocity.  And – you won  

[Inside]

Santa, you said: “Alcohol is just their mechanism to pretend like nothing happened.”

…you know… these BPD’s tend to get around… but reading a description like that has me wondering if I didn’t have yours while you didn’t!  Unreal.  Mine would instantly need a drink every time we’d get together, I went along…  It didn’t seem to be the alcohol that set her off, but it was definitely her excuse for anything that happened.  “I was drunk” she’d say.  BS - I was there, she may have had a couple of drinks, but far from ‘drunk.’ 

Mine bullied her mom… but ‘mom’ could (especially after a couple drinks) give as good as she got.  It was unreal to witness her family dynamics …and I thought my FOO was messed up! 

Jynx, after getting a handle on the BPD, at least on my part, I began suggesting we skip the alcohol, just to see what happened.  And just as you described, not much difference, she’d still find a reason to come unglued.  …just an excuse. 

[santa]

Santa, you said: “Alcohol is just their mechanism to pretend like nothing happened.”

…you know… these BPD’s tend to get around… but reading a description like that has me wondering if I didn’t have yours while you didn’t!  Unreal.  Mine would instantly need a drink every time we’d get together, I went along…  It didn’t seem to be the alcohol that set her off, but it was definitely her excuse for anything that happened.  “I was drunk” she’d say.  BS - I was there, she may have had a couple of drinks, but far from ‘drunk.’ 

Mine bullied her mom… but ‘mom’ could (especially after a couple drinks) give as good as she got.  It was unreal to witness her family dynamics …and I thought my FOO was messed up! 

Jynx, after getting a handle on the BPD, at least on my part, I began suggesting we skip the alcohol, just to see what happened.  And just as you described, not much difference, she’d still find a reason to come unglued.  …just an excuse. 

LOL

We very well could have dated the same girl. Mine also bullied her mom. She couldn't be around her mom without starting a fight with her. It was always the alcohol's fault too.

[jynx]

Jynx,

This struck me: “He would tell me that when you fight, the other person is the enemy, so you can do and say anything, because its only a fight, then after you get everything out, you just get over it.”

Wow, I'd have to return to grade school to relate to that one.  We’d meet after school to fight, then likely return as friends after pounding the crap out of each other … but that was 6th grade!  It’s said pwBPD behave like children that can’t grow up - that sounds like proof.

“Does this behavior sound like BPD?”

It does to me…  and then some! 

Jynx, my marriage of 29 years ended with a woman diagnosed with ‘adult onset anxiety syndrome.’  3 years later I met my undiagnosed (to my knowledge) BPD girlfriend.  Took me about a year and a half to discover the BPD, her case appears one of “high functioning.”  It’s shaken me hard … we had seven ‘recycles.’  I’ve not finished reading your post, or responses to it, but he is the ‘crazy one,’ not you … it took me awhile to determine that in my relationship… 

…I don’t know how you lasted 27 years…  I don’t think my uBPDgf and I lasted 27 months!  Did you have children... ?  Walking on eggshells for that long …don’t know how you can even stand up.  You must have exceptional strength… OK, I’d better see what others think.

You said: “The last question that I did have was how long would my ex last with new gf.  I don't care about that either anymore !

She lost, I won.”

That’s the attitude

You said: “I feel like am always going to give the wrong answer.”

Classic

You said: “…this is a terrific forum with so many terrific people here.”

Isn’t this something…  I’m a ‘forum moderator’ on an unrelated site and only wish (or maybe not... ) we had this volume of activity and consistent quality of contributors.  Their character is impressive.  As I’ve said before, BPD’s may be nuts – but they target some wonderful folks.  I’m glad you found this place …only wish you could have found it (had it been around) a couple decades sooner.  …it seems we’re all comrades in arms, having fought a battle and enemy others would have to experience themselves to understand the ferocity.  And – you won  

I really don't know how I lasted that long.  There are a few reasons though, 1.  We had children together, 2. It was an abusive situation, and I couldn't afford to just leave, 3.  I suspected bi-polar, and tried to get him in for diagnosis and treatment, because my son was exhibiting depression, and I thought if my ex accepted he had mental health problems and was being treated, that if my son started acting out more that he would see no shame in getting help,  5.  When I thought I was ready to leave, was going to move back in with my mom, I was diagnosed with 2 cancers, and the ex started to "act" nice.  6.  This behavior didn't really show up till he was 40, or should I say I knew there was a problem before this, but I thought he was abusive or an alcoholic.  (not that that would be any better)

He kept his mask on a lot.  Perhaps it had to do with the fact that when we got married we lived with my mother, and he had to keep it on there.  (There were red flags, but not daily).  The really weird, crazy stuff really started when we bought our own house.  When I look back at the red flags now, I don't know how I couldn't pick up on these things, but at that time I thought it was all me, and that each marriage is different, and that you need to make adjustments in your own life to accommodate a marriage.   

We had 2 children, and another from my first marriage.  My 2 children were in High School and were excelling.  They were in all honors classes, I didn't want to take them out of that school, but couldn't afford the area on my own, even with child support.  When he was devaluing me, he was extremely nice to the kids, which was most of the time.  When they left to go to college, that is when he started to disappear for lengths of time.  I had a dog, and 3 cats.  I wanted to leave, but there was no one to take them.  I think he knew this, and that was his way to keep me held hostage in my own house. 

I never really considered BPD because of the length of time he would do this, what I was reading is that is was usually of short duration, and that if it lasted for weeks or months to look at bi-pd.  He didn't really meet that either because he never really had a manic phase.  I know manic phases don't have to be this happy energetic person that is up for days, that it can also show as extreme aggitation, but it just didn't fit.  It was the lightning fast way that he could just turn on me, that really confused me. 

The eggshells were the worst.  I was able to think or concentrate when he was being decent, because I was just waiting for the "other person" to come back.  Once the "other person" reared his ugly head, in a  way I was able to calm down a little, because that's what I was use to dealing with. 

It really is nice to be able to talk with people about this.  When I was on the verbal abuse forum, I became embarrassed to post, because these things didn't seem to be happening to them, or maybe I was just embarrassed to say that I was still there.  I told a friend of mine once, and she said, wow, I have to believe what you say, because no one could make up sh!it like this.  She is still my biggest IRL support person, but I can't tell her all of these things, she'll think I'm nuts, I try to water things down for her.  She's the one that gave me a place to stay when I left.

When I did leave, I didn't leave because I was afraid of him, (any normal person should have), I left because I was afraid for him.  At that point when I left, I no longer cared about my life, I never wanted to wake up to another day of this stuff, I wasn't suicidal, I just wanted to go to sleep and not wake up.  I was also having violent visualizations, due to the PTSD, and these were starting to get more real for me.  I'm embarrassed to even admit that. 

Thanks for talking to me.  It helps a lot

PS - I did move out of my friends house, and bought my own home, I have been working on my co dependent issues now for about 3 years.

[heartandwhole]

Hi jynx

I'd like to welcome you to the forum.  You have been through a lot, and it's understandable to want to figure things out, even years later.  I'm sorry you had PTSD, that is so hard.  I don't know if I had full-blown PTSD after my breakup, but I did have symptoms and I think so many of us can relate.

Do you have a therapist for support?  It helped me a lot to talk to someone who was 100% there for me, but also objective and could see things I couldn't.

Your ex may have BPD, or not, it's impossible to diagnose here, but the label isn't as important as understanding the behaviors that you experienced and what effect that has had on you.  Eventually we come to understand that our own coping strategies were very unhealthy, too. 

Here are some resources that you may find helpful right now:

BPD BEHAVIORS: Splitting

EMDR and PTSD

Keep writing, jynx.  We're here for you. 

[Inside]

Jynx,

Thank you for describing your ordeal…  I’ve often wondered why and how others around here lasted as long as they did/ have or do within BPD relationships.  And, everything you wrote ‘made sense.’  Having had a longtime wife with a serious anxiety condition, and children, I understand.  

As ‘a guy’ it’s always boiled my blood to learn of the abuse to a woman … not only does it reflect on us all, anyone willing to abuse another person simply because they’ve the physical ability to is, to me, the lowest form of human.  I’m sorry for what you endured.

There have been various lingering traumas in my life that only time seems to have lessened.  I also experienced PTSD, due to physical and emotional abuse from my self-centered father.  Though he’d never strike our mom, he did not spare his children …and as the oldest, I took the brunt…  Not so long ago I corresponded with a friend about some lingering feelings and fears on my part, and after bringing them to light, they’ve not come back.  Hopefully you find a way to heal as well ~

I’ve never had personal therapy, though sat through six sessions with my former uBPDgf as that was her prerequisite to us getting back together.  Though she clammed up, I actually enjoyed talking with someone about my feelings and came away thinking I was fine.  Later, on my own, I discovered the BPD aspect of my ‘mate.’  Have you sought counseling?  It seems many around here do, which to me is kinda ironic as it’s our (former) BPD mates who should be receiving therapy   I’m cheap, and since my exposure was only for a few years, feel I can/ eventually will get through this on my own.  Reading around here helps me to ‘validate’ that I really was up against crazy; that it’s a real and well defined disorder; that I’m not ‘alone’ ... . and to remind myself why I should avoid further contact at all costs.  

I suspect your family dynamics will sound very familiar to folks around here.  It’s interesting for me to hear of and consider the gender differences in this disorder.  Not that it appears to effect men and women differently, but how the physical abuse manifests itself…  My exBPDgf would definitely pick fights with her sons, but reached a stage where she couldn’t ‘win’ them.  But I suppose calling the police and having your son arrested after, initiating yet losing a fight with him, might be considered ‘a win’ in her book.  She’d also provoke her exes to the point they’d hit, shove or threaten her (once with a gun to her head) … maybe a form of passive abuse as opposed to active, being that she couldn’t physically over-power them?  She appeared perplexed by me …I wouldn’t hit or even argue with her – that apparently drove her (further) nuts.  Maybe by denying her what she appeared to want was the ultimate in aggression on my part   No drama or trauma, just the equivalent of a parent patiently witnessing a tantrum then calmly moving on... .

I’m curious, my experience with a BPD mate had her breaking up then ‘painting me black’ to her family and friends … then doing her best to find someone else or just partying hardy …then reconnecting with me, thus our ‘seven recycles.’  You describe your ex husband as running off, for days or weeks.  I’d suspect that’s the equivalent of what I experienced between our recycles, since we lived apart.  Any idea where he went... ?  Most are cavorting with other ‘love interests’ between their time with us.  Had you discovered anything of the sort?  …if simply another aspect of neglect, abuse and betrayal on his part.

I can relate to your embarrassment and the disbelief of others when attempting to describe such insane behavior.  They either doubt ‘your’ sanity regarding whether or not you’re telling the truth, or consider you nuts for having put up with it.  After one of my first breaks with uBPDgf I’d sent a link to an excellent description on BPD relational behavior to my closest friends … the very friends that had set her and I up.  Of the three - no one ‘got it.’  They thought I was simply mad at her and likely trying to hurt her with such accusations ... . when I’d only felt compelled to let them in on what I’d been experiencing behind the scenes.  Since, I think they’ve come to see the truth.  I’ve remained the stable person they’ve known for years ... . as she’s bounced around within the group.  I no longer care what they think of her but it’s difficult to dodge seeing her when I meet up with these friends …at their weekly watering hole.  But today (Friday) I won’t be among them as I’m headed away for the weekend…  The further the better

[winston72]

What a helpful thread.  Thank you Jynx for your candor in sharing your story.

I am starting to tell myself that I do have all the answers, and that one of the "answers" is that there are large portions of the relationship and her behavior that cannot be described by my logic or reason.  I was continually trying to "make sense" of her behavior, my behavior, the relationship and trying to do so by my form of thinking.  I will say a bit sheepishly that I was trying to bring order to disorder.  It happened in some instances, but not all, and I would keep trying.  The "answer" was that part of her and our relationship was different and not subject to ordered thinking.  

Hmm... . I wondered if I am typing myself into circles!  I think I am starting to describe radical acceptance that parts of my ex and our relationship were beyond my ability to explain.

As I have learned on this site, there is a logic and a way to understand the inner life of someone with such behaviors, so I do not mean to imply that it is a beyond reason... . just that such aspects of her personality were not going to make sense to me when I tried (and tried and tried and tried) to apply my sense of intellectual and emotional logic.

For example, I still feel like I could restore the relationship and bring joy to her and me if only... . I could explain things to her a little better, get that email wording just right, say the right things to unlock her understanding... . looking for that answer, but the answer is that these parts of her are not subject to this type of... . order.

Jynx... . please keep posting and engaging... . good things ahead for you.  And you are right, no one could make up some of this stuff!  But many, many people here have similar stories.

Santa... . "splicing"... . I like it!

Big exhale... . such hard stories, such anguish... . and such relief to see things fully, be accepted and start to sort it out... .

Sending this after Inside posted... . haven't read it, apologies, but sending mine anyway!

[Inside]

Winston72, you said:

“For example, I still feel like I could restore the relationship and bring joy to her and me if only... . I could explain things to her a little better, get that email wording just right, say the right things to unlock her understanding... . looking for that answer, but the answer is that these parts of her are not subject to this type of... . order.”

Well put, and a difficult concept to describe.  I bet we can all relate…  I recently deleted the bulk of our email correspondence, long-winded … believe me – I said about everything one could, attempting to describe my love for her ... . along with countless observations and ideas about how we could proceed.  Noting worked.  I guess that’s why it’s called a “disorder”…  And, it’s painful to have your best efforts constantly rejected or dismissed… 

One of the weirdest observations I made before deleting our (mainly my one-sided attempts at) email correspondence was that something I’d written two years ago could have been written two days ago … so little progress had been made.  I actually laughed at the irony – as if I needed more proof as to the futility of my attempts to make something of nothing.  Tuff stuff ~

[winston72]

Aaaarrrggghhh... . Inside, I probably wrote the same emails you wrote!  I did have to chuckle at myself and the futility of it all... . utterly futile, but undertaken with such hope, passion and belief! If only... . it was the summary title for my last two years.

It is tuff stuff!

[Mutt]

What you described about having horrible fights and then waking up the next morning and it being like nothing ever happened is absolutely BPD. It's called splicing. It used to happen a lot with my ex.

Basically, splicing is like editing out certain things so that you can move forward without having to deal with what happened. It's like how directors cut movies. It would be too hard to face what happened the night before and continue with the relationship, so the quick fix is just to pretend it never happened and just pick up where you left off before the fight happened. I got into the habit of doing this with my ex. I didn't even realize I was doing it until someone else pointed it out to me. It's kind of creepy when you think about it. That's exactly what happened though.

Spot on.

[jynx]

Inside,

Abuse to a woman has no reflection at all against men.  It is about control.  Woman abuse men also, and I am seeing that more and more here.  Any and all abuse is wrong.  

I did go to therapist, also psychiatrist.  What I gained the most knowledge about "his thinking" was when his therapist would ask for me to come in, because they thought it would be MC.  For awhile there whenever he would leave and threaten divorce, he would come back and tell me he would see a therapist.  He would go for a few visits, then they would ask me to come in to talk to them.

The first one of his that I saw, I had brought with me a tape recording of him raging at me.  The therapist was in shock, she looked at me and said that is not the man that comes here to see me, the man that comes to see me loves you so much, and just wants you not to be afraid of him, and is willing to do whatever it takes, but he feels very underappreciated.  She also said that she heard no where in that recording where I provoked any of the anger that he was releasing.  That I was asking the right questions, I wasn't pushing him, and that I was validating his feelings.  

Then we went to see this therapist together.  He was in his "mood".  I brought along with me a list of 147 things that he had said that was wrong with me.  I gave it to her.  She read it, and couldn't believe it, she gave him the list, asked him if he agreed with the list, he replied yes, except for maybe one or 2 things.  She told him she didn't see why he was wasting her time and his money by coming to see her, then she turned to me and asked me if I would like to schedule another appt so that she could help me while I went through  the divorce process.  We never even mentioned divorce to her.

My ex's take on this.  She didn't need to see him anymore, because he was fine, I was crazy, and that's why she wanted to continue to see me.  

His psychologist ----  He already had 6 sessions with this one.  First time I am there, within 5 minutes of being there, my ex tells psychologist that if I get upset that it makes him really mad.  Psychologist says to him, isn't that a little bit immature, and controlling, then he turned to me and said, your H has the emotional maturity of about a 7 yr old, if he works really hard with me, I might be able to increase that to a 12 yr old, is that good enough for you?  

My ex's take on that,----  you really know how to twist things around don't you.  You have a knack for twisting people around your little pinky.    My ex refused to go back to this, I continue with him to work a little on my co-depency issues.

When he ran away from home, I honestly have no idea where he went.  One time a credit card bill came in and I saw a motel listed, I mentioned it to him.  After that there were no more charges to the credit card, and normal amounts of cash was withdrawn from the bank.  Said he slept at work in his cubicle under his desk.  

The woman he lives with now works with him, and she was going through a divorce at that time.  I didn't know that then.  So, I guess I can assume that he was with her because I cannot believe that any "normal"? person would sleep at work under their desk.

I often wondered about the gender difference in the behavior of a BPD, but from reading around here, all the stories seem so familiar.  

My ex never put me down to others, he told them I was the best and how much he loved me, even while he was hating me, devaluing me, treating me like I didn't exist.   In a way that made me look even crazier to them for being upset with him.   Whenever he would visit someone during his disappearing acts, when they asked where I was, he told them either that I threw him out of the house, or that he asked me to go and I refused.  He painted me as a b!tch, while he portrayed himself as a victim.

[jynx]

winston, inside

You can't explain anything to them.  I went through all of the "what ifs", and I mean all of them, trying to say it in a different way, trying to explain that I loved him first, I tried everything.  There is not one other thing that I could have tried.

The thing that worked for me was to think like him.  And wow did that hurt my head !  But then I realized that I was giving him excuses for bad behavior. 

The emails, the text, I sent many of them.  I still have them saved, or at least some of them, spanning over 2 years, and each one is worded different, but actually saying the same thing.  I sometimes wanted to dig one out from 2 years ago and resend it, because I wanted to say the same thing.  Nothing works. 

I really do feel when they are in that "mood", they really don't see you, don't hear you, they only hear what is in their own head.  I really do feel that they are responding to things in their head, not anything you are saying. 

I used to try to explain myself that I wasn't trying to hurt him, didn't want to fight, just wanted the war to end, I later learned that I was only in the fight because I was trying to explain, now it was becoming a 3 way fight, because he was already fighting with himself.  He wasn't hearing anything that I said, only enough to fling words back at me. 

[jynx]

Did you ever have what you thought was a rational discussion, and I am only saying rational because it did not evolve into a rage, where you actually thought that the 4 hour marathon discussion you had, that it might have actually gotten through to them.  Then days later you review the convo in your head and realize nothing got through, nothing changed, that it was just a merry-go-round that you were on, but you thought it went ok only because a major rage didn't come?

[Inside]

Jynx,

You said: “Abuse to a woman has no reflection at all against men.  It is about control.  Woman abuse men also, and I am seeing that more and more here.  Any and all abuse is wrong.”

Thanks for reminding me of that…  and yes, it can go both ways.  

Regarding his therapist (after listening to your recording), you said: “…she looked at me and said that is not the man that comes here to see me, the man that comes to see me loves you so much, and just wants you not to be afraid of him, and is willing to do whatever it takes, but he feels very underappreciated”

Perfect.  I suspect pwBPD realize they’re living a lie, just pretending to fit in.  I also suspect when they subject themselves to therapy they’ve no intension of exposing themselves …and likely assume that if they can fool the therapist – they win …just as they initially fooled us, and it works … for awhile.  

My uBPDgf seemed to ‘pick’ the topics and situations she wanted to discuss, then admit to ‘just enough’ to make it appear her problems were minor and only needed tweaked.  I’d never been invited to one of her sessions… but while in couples counseling with her, she sat tight and played innocent.  To keep her from exploding on me later (which she’d do anyway) I never brought up ‘the big stuff’ or guided the discussion.  She’d insisted we be there, so I waited for her to explain why... .  Never happened.

You said: “I brought along with me a list of 147 things that he had said that was wrong with me.  I gave it to her.” –  “She told him she didn't see why he was wasting her time and his money by coming to see her, then she turned to me and asked me if I would like to schedule another appt so that she could help me while I went through  the divorce process.  We never even mentioned divorce to her.”

…woW…  You were validated!  For me, the friends network we’d met through consistently attempted to remain ‘neutral,’ so I got little feedback or support regarding her behavior from them, plus, they think she’s cute and entertaining... .  But at work or with my family, it didn’t take 147 examples for them to insist I move on.  Had you been running his behavior past friends or family?  I had a coworker who nearly threw me over a car hood to kick my ass for starting up with her again – only backing off when I agreed not to mention our troubles.  I didn’t …though now he insists on buying me beers and demanding every detail  

Again, I’ve read they’re notorious for dumping therapists, just as they dump us, and therapists are reluctant take them on as clients for that reason and your example.  Personally, I think pwBPD know who they are and from an early age begin crafting their performance of ‘normal.’  So they get quite good at it.  But when confronted point-blank with probing questions, they run … just as they run from us.  Not wanting them to run, we learn not to ask questions…

You said: “Psychologist says to him, isn't that a little bit immature, and controlling, then he turned to me and said, your H has the emotional maturity of about a 7 yr old, if he works really hard with me, I might be able to increase that to a 12 yr old, is that good enough for you?”

Again, thank you for sharing this... it explains so clearly where we’d likely all end up if we weren’t here trying to get over our BPD ex’s, instead of back with them…  You’ve lived it, and in a weird way I suspect, leaving some of us sorry we didn’t, in that – we’d rarely admit or imagine that amid our lust, we could end up experiencing what you’ve described.  Yours should be mandatory reading!  And, though it might be a hard sell, attempting to describe this to those not having experienced BPD rage, we get it – or had better.

Sounds like you pieced together his disappearing act… cubical and all...  Another common theme around here is to have them off cultivating our replacements.  I don’t know what’s worse, not knowing that’s going on, or witnessing it?  Behavior I’d hoped was just ‘her’ openly flirting in my presence became her just doing what she does, constantly trolling.  And the lies, daring to tell us what we think and feel, and how we’re the reason they behave as they do…  nope, not allowed to cuss here [ please read ] but would like to.  How dare they.  But that’s a reason I’m here, to remind myself why I'm no longer subjecting myself to BPD and using your experience as evidence of where a long-term relationship with one will ultimately end.  

Sounds like your ex selectively ‘painted you black’ to get the sympathy necessary to hide out yet maintain the marriage.  Unmarried and living apart, mine would instantly start a smear campaign.  I’d usually not learn of it for weeks until stuff began to trickle down to me …or friends began looking at me with suspicion…  And why I ‘forgave’ or ignored that …I’m still trying to figure out.  It was weird for the same folks I’d been criticized to, to see us back together … so she began avoiding such gatherings ‘with me’ … a major reason I finally left her.  

[jynx]

Ah, picking the topics to discuss,

With psychologist -- Psychologist wanted to know what we thought the main problem was in our relationship.

My ex quickly jumps in that he does not see why he has to call me every time he is going to be late.  So psychologist starts to talk to me about it, and we somewhat agree that if he is going to be 1/2 hour late, that should be fine, but longer that he should call me.

Then I told psychologist that the reason why I get like this is because of ptsd, and that he is always home at 4, or 4:05 the latest, and when he isn't I already know that he is in a bar and not coming home till about 10 or later at night, or that he won't come home at all.  There was not one time that he came home only 15 minutes late, or 20 minutes late.  Psychologist just looked at him and asked, "is this true"?  Ex refused to answer.

When we got to the car, ex raged at me.  Said he didn't want psychologist to know other things, so he picked something that he thought would be a safe issue to discuss, and that I was even able to twist that around and blame him for it.

The replacement, as far as I know he moved in with her 6 months after our divorce, but that is only because she bought a condo then, and that is when he told our kids that he was with someone.  I have no idea of when he started dating her, and I don't care.  I just wish her a lot of good mental health, because I don't want him recycling back here.  That's why I bought into a gated community.  He can't get in without me knowing it !   

[jynx]

Now off to friends house soon, to go watch the Super Bowl.  Nice relaxing time in a sports bar with pizza and some beer, then staying over night.

[Inside]

Did you ever have what you thought was a rational discussion, and I am only saying rational because it did not evolve into a rage, where you actually thought that the 4 hour marathon discussion you had, that it might have actually gotten through to them.  Then days later you review the convo in your head and realize nothing got through, nothing changed, that it was just a merry-go-round that you were on, but you thought it went ok only because a major rage didn't come?

I think pwBPD have created such an array of coping behavior that there’s little of ‘the real them’ left … that they become so accustom to deceiving others they no longer recognize their real self.  Thus you could have that marathon discussion with them, assuming it’s making sense and registering at a deep level …only to find they’ve dismissed it as just another deception they needed to participate in order to get something they want… 

I felt my BPDgf was constantly weighing ‘her realities’ – the expectations necessary to maintain a wholesome relationship with me vs. maintaining her numerous facades for friends… attempting to figure out from which she’d ultimately receive the most attention, affection, sympathy or support.  As I learned more of her disability, and no longer thoughtlessly fed her ego, she began shifting her attention back to her vast network of so-called ‘friends.’  And as they never spent long enough to know her as I did, revolving between them appeared to give her the sustenance she sought from me. 

So, as rational as any or many of our conversations were, with me having to do most of the talking …while walking on eggshells… she likely pretended to agree with apparently ‘logical’ conclusions …while secretly feeling it would be far easier to avoid such ‘grown up’ expectations by dumping me and bolting back to her dysfunctional support network.

- - On a slightly different topic, during a recent conversation with family members I was asked, “What was it you liked about her?”  The time it took to come up with an answer seemed puzzling… but it was difficult to explain, and I wonder if it’s not a common experience with others around here.  Eventually, I answered that, just as I’m aware of her mental illness limiting critical aspects of her perception of relationships – I feel she has equally exceptional abilities in other aspects.  Where one portion of the brain doesn’t seem connected to where it needs to be, another connection is made instead that enhances her ability to perceive aspects of life that most people never recognize or appreciate.  Finding that ability within her, then attempting to describe my appreciation of it left my BPDgf smiling.  But just as I’m not sure she recognized her extraordinary abilities … neither did she recognize or understand her disabilities... ? 

I went on to describe, in my defense of multiple ‘recycles,’ that I was willing to overlook her disabilities and felt sharing her exceptional abilities were the trade off.  But the disabilities proved insurmountable … leaving me to forever miss what most would consider a ‘gift.’  So as I read around the board in order to remind myself of the hardships ‘we’ endured … I’m also attempting to suppress the memories and desires that kept me seeking her.  In a way, if we fail to admit, understand or even admire their positive traits … can we fully move on by only recounting the pain?  On the angry side of these threads it’s easy to recall why we remain apart…  But, as witnessed, no amount of love, desire or devotion on our part can put our humpty dumpty’s together again ~

[mgl210]

My ex and I have been through already (six?) recycles. Pathetic? Sad? Definitely all of the above. I don't think she is even aware of what she really wants. She thinks she might, she thinks she has a grip of things, but in the end she probably doesn't.

In her words again" Its all my darned EB's (her former therapist) fault, if she didn't pull a fast one and desert me, then none of this would have happened." Like I just posted in a previous bulletin. I am beginning to wonder ... How does someone who has somewhat doting or even overbearing parents end up feeling as if they are abandoned? Unless its all in their mind and they are having delusions... . Who knows?

MGL

[Inside]

Mgl210,

From all I’ve gotten my hands (or eyes on), BPD is increasingly traced to brain malformation and is pulling away from the Freudian speculations of childhood trauma and abuse.  Mine seemed far more a spoiled child than anything I’ve heard described as ‘the cause’ of BPD.  If anything, she played her parents  

Sure, she resents the time her dad spent working on vehicles in the garage with her two brothers, but it was likely attention this little Histrionic-to-be wanted …as she’s shown no desire to change her oil (that was my job).  And there had been no sexual abuse, either.  A loving and doting mother, with a father that consistently came to her rescue, her parents even raised her first (out of wedlock) child…  She had it a lot easier than me – so where’s my BPD?  I’m still attempting to shake my PTSD, thanks to an abusive father and co-conspirator mother…   Though laughing at the moment, twasn’t so funny in the day.

It appears to remain an incurable enigma, the only ‘relief’ coming as they consciously attempt to keep a lid on their worst symptoms…  And, there appears so little we can do to help.  Insidious stuff ~

[Inside]

Now off to friends house soon, to go watch the Super Bowl.  Nice relaxing time in a sports bar with pizza and some beer, then staying over night.

Jynx … it’s begun to feel quite pathetic when women know and care more about the Super Bowl than I do…  :)ad was a spotoholic, so it seems I’m still in recovery.  Anymore, I find it a good time to fire up the chainsaw and feel as though I’m getting ahead…  Just me, I guess.

…but I did catch the two hour PBS Frontline documentary last week on “The League of Denial.”  Wow … definitely turned me off even more to the spectacle…  But stay safe and have fun with yur friends …while I go make some chips fly

[mgl210]

Mgl210,

From all I’ve gotten my hands (or eyes on), BPD is increasingly traced to brain malformation and is pulling away from the Freudian speculations of childhood trauma and abuse.  Mine seemed far more a spoiled child than anything I’ve heard described as ‘the cause’ of BPD.  If anything, she played her parents  

Sure, she resents the time her dad spent working on vehicles in the garage with her two brothers, but it was likely attention this little Histrionic-to-be wanted …as she’s shown no desire to change her oil (that was my job).  And there had been no sexual abuse, either.  A loving and doting mother, with a father that consistently came to her rescue, her parents even raised her first (out of wedlock) child…  She had it a lot easier than me – so where’s my BPD?  I’m still attempting to shake my PTSD, thanks to an abusive father and co-conspirator mother…   Though laughing at the moment, twasn’t so funny in the day.

It appears to remain an incurable enigma, the only ‘relief’ coming as they consciously attempt to keep a lid on their worst symptoms…  And, there appears so little we can do to help.  Insidious stuff ~

My ex has two younger bros. her mom has always doted more on the middle child.  She was more of a I got pregnant gotta get married kind of thing. Although her parents just recently celebrated an anniversary mark of 35 yrs.

[Inside]

My ex has two younger bros. her mom has always doted more on the middle child.  She was more of a I got pregnant gotta get married kind of thing. Although her parents just recently celebrated an anniversary mark of 35 yrs.

mgl210,

…I’m half expecting to some day discover on these boards some guy my uxBPDgf messed up like she did me!  She’s been around, but is the youngest of three, and the most needy…  

She had the ‘get me pregnant and marry me’ attitude, too … but the charismatic black guy that first got her pregnant also had another woman pregnant at the same time.  So while he described to both my BPDex and her parents how he planned to marry ‘her,’ he eventually married the other (also black) woman he had pregnant.  So my former BPDgf basically handed her child off to her parents as she continued to hit the clubs in Vegas, her ‘home town.’  

…this is all stuff I’d wince inside at hearing, but was convinced that after a couple of decades, she’d grown up.  Nope, only moved on … with another kid in-between.  But the second one she ‘made legit’ by marrying his father at the Church of Elvis in Vegas – true love  dontcha think?   …talk about 's    Silly me ~