sometimes i get confused... was she really that bad or is it me?

[diega]

I logically know my BPD mother was terribly abusive and responsible for a lot of the hell in my life and horrible situations I was in.

I try to remind myself that my situation is not my fault otherwise I get so down on myself I can't even contiinue.   I say... "its not your fault... this would happen to anyone in your situation... yu did the best you could and most people would not have survived through this ."   

I was an overachiever type with a lot of goals etc and ended up with PTSD and other things that destroyed my life. i did not give up but nevertheless, I did not end up doing what I could have due to the PTSD and the situations that I was put in.

but sometimes I see myself and I say' how did I end up here? "  and i start to blame myself.   

i forget it is not my fault.  it makes me feel crazy becuase I logically know better. i have been through years and years of therapy and everything under the sun and I STILL can't believe it sometimes.

When things look so 'normal' on the outside to everyone else and to me... sometimes i just can't believe all the insanity happened.

When i see my mother acting calm and looking very mild mannered... its jsut hard to believe.  I start to feel that its all just me... . that i'm the wy I am becuase i didn't try hard enough, because as my sister in law said today , "the choices you make now create ur future.'  she was implying that NOW that i've decide to make good choices *(I was telling her about wanting to apply to grad school" , now that I am making a good choice my future will be good, she says.   she thought she was being supportive... and she was implying that the reason I am not 'succcessful' at this moment is because my choices in the past were not good.

but NOW becuase i want to make a good choice, i will succeed...

i felt soo angry. really?  i made fng great choices... . but no matter how i expalin... she can't understand how my mother and other BPD mothers SABOTAGE those good choices... . and it was the very good and healthy choices i made as a kid and teenager that got me into a lot of trouble and abuse by her becuase of her BPD.

its soo frustrating... . but its crazy becuase i logically know this... . i am typing it so i must know it... but i do not FEEL it.  i feel crazy... . a trapped sort of feeling,


I did talk to my sister in law today and perhaps this is why i feel confused.  she doesn't understand BPD and sometimes she says things that i know are wrong but it make  start to feel this confusion.

has anyone else felt confused... . between their logic and their feeling and knowing reality but doubting it at the same time.  and i dont even knwo if i expalined this correctly, perhaps this isn't even making sense.  sigh.

[Contradancer]

My gut feeling is that it's not about good versus bad, but simply a matter of mental illness with bad results.

[StarStruck]

Hi diega,

A whole load of your background and experience reminds me of me.

difference being... . I made the WRONG choices with regards to my future because I had a head full of stuff that stopped me knowing what I really wanted and needed. confused but I wouldn't have said that at the time but I would have said I had lost direction.

I didn't know what my Mom was - I found that the confusing bit but I left that to one side.

Like you say I think you know whether they were good choices and if you still think that now, they were. I feel that all the stuff I was going through at the time... . built on top of history of child abuse from my Mom, stopped me from making the best of it. Directly and indirectly. Out in the open and hidden gestures of lack of support.

I can't believe that this has happened, that there's words for the actions, that my life til now has been shaped by it. I had no idea years ago because I was right in the middle of the storm... . I never ever gave up seeking answers and explanations. I think truth seekers a good term. It was a puzzle.

That is the only reason I have a different mindset because I wanted to know the answer to the question mark. Unfortunately it lead right back to the root = My Mother. It's unreal it really is. But I would have to be nuts not to know that. Given the evidence stacked against. also the whole time trying to prove myself wrong. I mean it's not the conclusion you want is it... .

To except your own mother has a mental problem and you suffered child abuse. Then host of other abuses because of it. It's a poo situation. I look at it like this though. However you want to perceive it the facts don't change. There's no running, I had to meet it head on and still am difference is I'm at the edge of the storm swirling around putting my bandages on rather than in the middle of it suffocating me.

I understand why you felt angry with SIL. Very frustrating as it takes away the truth and makes you feel responsible for the crap. Take it like a one liner from her.

BELIEVE what you know. Get to really know what you need. Trust your gut and have confidence in all these new decisions you are going to make now. Let now be the start of your life.

& You did make sense.

[losingconfidence]

I feel the same way.

I don't even seem to know what a good choice is anymore because most of my good choices were sabotaged too. It's easy for me to look at my own family and go "there's no way anything bad happened" even though there is.

[diega]

I appreciate all your feedback. It  helps me soo much. I read what you all wrote over and over and over. Thank you so much.

[Islandgrl]

Hi diega

It's absolutely not your fault what happened to you as a child or the actions of others towards you.  I suppose from my own perspective and situation, I have found it helpful to understand where I have contributed to issues of situations and how I could change my behaviour to improve things for me but without looking to blame myself the way my mother would.   I was so angry at being victimised by my mother that I sabotaged a lot of opportunities for myself (also I think a lack of confidence and a fear of success as this would elicit scorn and hatred from my uBPD mother contributed).  So I suppose I now feel more able to do good things for myself and achieve although it's still baby steps.  I feel I could cope with success and failure much better now and not be plagued with thoughts of all the awful shaming things that my mother would say in response. 

I think people who have not experienced BPD and come to terms with it find it very difficult if not impossible to understand what we're going through.  This applies even to people who are close to the BPD like my enmeshed sister who is only starting to realise that something is wrong with my mother although she still has a very different perspective from me. 

The answer from my BPD mother (or often enmeshed sister) to almost anything to do with me is that I'm wrong or it's my fault.  For example, if I confronted my uBPD mother about her violence she would either deny it ever happened or tell me it was my own fault (e.g it was my fault for not "helping" her perhaps - by this she means psychologically).   It took me a long time to get to the stage where I trusted my judgement a bit more and did not feel so powerless - I'm still working on this. 

So I think that this confusion can come from being invalidated and growing up in a BPD household where black is white and true is false if the BPD feels like it.  I think it's important to trust your own judgement and respect your own opinion (obviously while still being open to others) and not to get drawn into the BPD's world. 

Hugs to you.  I hope you can go on to make more good choices and to make them work for you.  You've done really well recovering thus far and it is a testament to how strong you are. 

[woodsposse]

Hi diega,

A whole load of your background and experience reminds me of me.

difference being... . I made the WRONG choices with regards to my future because I had a head full of stuff that stopped me knowing what I really wanted and needed. confused but I wouldn't have said that at the time but I would have said I had lost direction.

I didn't know what my Mom was - I found that the confusing bit but I left that to one side.

Like you say I think you know whether they were good choices and if you still think that now, they were. I feel that all the stuff I was going through at the time... . built on top of history of child abuse from my Mom, stopped me from making the best of it. Directly and indirectly. Out in the open and hidden gestures of lack of support.

I can't believe that this has happened, that there's words for the actions, that my life til now has been shaped by it. I had no idea years ago because I was right in the middle of the storm... . I never ever gave up seeking answers and explanations. I think truth seekers a good term. It was a puzzle.

That is the only reason I have a different mindset because I wanted to know the answer to the question mark. Unfortunately it lead right back to the root = My Mother. It's unreal it really is. But I would have to be nuts not to know that. Given the evidence stacked against. also the whole time trying to prove myself wrong. I mean it's not the conclusion you want is it... .

To except your own mother has a mental problem and you suffered child abuse. Then host of other abuses because of it. It's a poo situation. I look at it like this though. However you want to perceive it the facts don't change. There's no running, I had to meet it head on and still am difference is I'm at the edge of the storm swirling around putting my bandages on rather than in the middle of it suffocating me.

I understand why you felt angry with SIL. Very frustrating as it takes away the truth and makes you feel responsible for the crap. Take it like a one liner from her.

BELIEVE what you know. Get to really know what you need. Trust your gut and have confidence in all these new decisions you are going to make now. Let now be the start of your life.

& You did make sense.

Wow.  Thank you.  You typed my story almost exactly the way I would have - using almost the exact same words I would have!

I'm glad someone gets it.

I too always felt like there was something I wasn't getting... . some question I had to solve.  Which subsequently lead me here to this site, and back to home... . to my mentally ill abusive mother.  And I have to come to terms with both those facts.  My mother is mentally ill and I am a child abuse survivor.

At the very least - it helped put everything in perspective.  I finally understand.

What I do with that going forward is still sometimes a bit of a mindjob... . because now I'm realizing that a lot of everything who I have been has been shaped by a mind that wasn't right.  So I don't even know which part of me is actually me.

But I'm working on it.

[StarStruck]

Hi woods posse, yes once you gain the understanding you get accustomed to finding yourself. I don't think the word journey quite cuts it... . yes the effort is there (but no more than how a questioning mind has already worked) but it's a ride you can't get off from. The 'knowing' feels like a gift but thinking of it you are simply discovering what has been there the whole time, you. Well done and very best of luck 

[Swampy]

Diega, Sir... . Nicely done and thank you.

Not only do you make sense but you've begun an incredibly important and timely discussion.  Last nite a very long-time and good friend of mine said I'm in this spot because I'm not "thinking straight."  Little does he know how cruel it is for him to blame the victim.

Rest assured that you are not alone and that maybe, just maybe, we can drag this dirty little secret out from the dark and at worst, get some public recognition from the perpetrators, and at best; force them to "make right" what they have so knowingly and intentionally made wrong.

Let's hope that lots of folks find this and that it leads to us collectively we realizing that it will be a combination of all our efforts... . if we are going to survive and prosper.  After all, if we don't take responsibility for our own recovery... . who will?

[Daliah]

I know the confusion you refer to, Diega. I don't experience it anymore these days. Instead of doubting whether what I went through was real, I get annoyed when I come up against the assumption that I had great options in life because I come from an upper middle class family, when in fact I had anything but.

I was given some token opportunities in the form of extra-curriculars as a pre-teen, presumably so that my parents could prove to themselves and/or others that they were giving me all the opportunities they gave my sister. Once I reached my teenage years and started to truly individuate, as the all-bad/scapegoated child, all bets were off. I became their servant for nearly every moment I wasn't at school, and barely a penny was invested in me that didn't absolutely have to be spent. I didn't often get around to reading even borrowed books for more than five to ten minutes before passing out, because if I was awake and not at school, it meant I had to be scrubbing something.

Because my parents were so well-embedded in the upper-middle socio-economic stratum and everything happened behind closed doors, no one that I know of ever suspected that anything was wrong at home, and I was and am sure that no one would have believed me if I had told them, so no help ever came, and the abuse and exploitation merrily continued into my early/mid-20s.

I managed to get a my degree, but at the end of it, which was shortly after I had told my parents I was breaking off contact with them, I was so confused and, most of all, exhausted in every conceivable way - physically, mentally and emotionally - that I just didn't have the energy or the faith in myself to get started down a highly competitive career path. I felt I couldn't cope with one more thing and was barely functional.

So, I basically scaled everything down to working just enough to survive and then coming home to wonder what had hit me and what had happened and who I was. And that way, over the years, I kind of pieced myself together again and, in some other ways, found out who I was for the first time. I had tried to find a therapist somewhere near the beginning, but I gave up after several first sessions with people who were a bad match and added to the gaslighting I had just brought behind me.

I couldn't have worked on myself and an intense career at the same time. And I had to work on myself as a matter of survival. There weren't really options, as such. Not from inside my head at the time, anyway.

For years I felt inferior to practically everyone around me because I thought that, if I could just manage to do everything the right way (and I could never figure out what the right way was, because there wasn't such a thing), I'd be able to cope with everything I had gone through and simultaneously develop an amazing career. I mean - most of my peers seemed to be doing moderately well... . ! It hadn't entirely sunk in yet that most of my peers hadn't gone through quite the ordeal I had gone through and had more resources (left) to draw from.

Still, I have done reasonably well so far, anyway, considering I wasn't going for much at the start of my adult life. My job isn't in the field I trained in, and I don't like it, and it is well below my ability level. On the upside, I make a (modest) living, I have an excellent reputation at work and a solid work record. I deal with many highly ambitious people at work who, based on hints here and there, likely think that we all had the same chances starting out and that our disparate positions simply reflect better and worse choices and different intellectual ability levels. There's nothing I can do about them assuming whatever they want to assume, but these days, at least, I no longer feel like a lesser person because of what they (may) think about me. If they make wrong assumptions, that's unfortunate, but it really doesn't change who I am.

I'm sure I read this quote in a book for adult children of personality-disordered parents, but unfortunately I can't find it at the moment. It may even have been in one specifically about BPD. I'm paraphrasing, but it said something along the lines of "You need to know where someone started to know how far they have come". That quote spoke very loudly to me. If people misjudge your achievements, it may well be because they don't know where you started from.

[rebl.brown]

Hi, I know you've had a lot of replies on this but I just had to post.  The description you gave of what goes on in the mind of an adult who has survived a BPD mother was perfection.  I mean it is exactly what it is like.  No one, not even family members who should know better understand the kind of mental and emotional abuse this type of person perpetrates.  It is so devastating because it is so sneaky and it tortures us and makes us question ourselves.  I don't try to explain anymore and no only do I have NC with the monster I stay away from anyone who continues the abuse in any way especially family.  Even if they do not mean to I cannot emotionally tolerate it and I don't think I have to anymore.  Sending great thanks your way, for your post.  I was having those "it just couldn't have been that bad" moments and your words brought me back to reality.  I'm not trying to tell you what to do or not do with your relationships, I just wanted to thank you so much for the post.

[woodsposse]

For years I felt inferior to practically everyone around me because I thought that, if I could just manage to do everything the right way (and I could never figure out what the right way was, because there wasn't such a thing), I'd be able to cope with everything I had gone through and simultaneously develop an amazing career. I mean - most of my peers seemed to be doing moderately well... . ! It hadn't entirely sunk in yet that most of my peers hadn't gone through quite the ordeal I had gone through and had more resources (left) to draw from.

Wow.  I really thought I was the only one who felt this way.  I guess when trying to explain myself to those who were suppose to be close to me, I was explaining to the wrong people (or used the wrong words... . damn... . I did it again, blaming myself... . jeez this is a deep rabbit whole!). 

All this time, it may have helped if I was talking to other people who got it.  But I didn't know that then.  It wasn't fully impressed on me that my childhood wore so heavy on me until my last r/s ruptured so terribly and everything came flooding out and I ended up here.  Oh how I wish I could have been at a place to have been here years ago and allow the healing to have started then.

Not entirely sure if things which have happened over the last 15 years wouldn't have played out the same way - but at least... .

Anyway, can't go back.

What I find interesting, at this point, is that I have been talking with my brother recently about our individual experiences with our mother.  I am at the point to just shut off and go total NC.  He got angry with me because he is so enmeshed with her (still) - even though he knows all the messed up things she did and the horrible mess she set in motion. Don't get me wrong, I get it.  I'm not an emotionless drone or some ranting angry child yelling to mom "I hate you".

But what I am not going to do is look my abuser in the face, regardless of the "good things" she did in between rant and rages and put downs and beatings and say "Thank you for raising me you wonderful woman you!".  She may have a mental illness, but she isn't insane.  But the things she did and still does to this day are just effin crazy.

My brother may be able to get it, maybe not.  If he wants to stay close to her side and take care of her... . I'm behind him 100%.  I'll sit on the sideline living my life and wave every now and again.  I don't want, and can't have that nonsense around me.  It really isn't good for me.

It's good to know, finally, that I'm not alone.

[coraliesolange]

Definitely not your fault that someone else is mentally ill or chose to be abusive.  The fact that you question whether it was your fault is just another after effect of the abuse.  Keep telling yourself it wasn't your fault.  I hope those words eventually stick!

[clljhns]

I asked my therapist that very question. "How can my mother be all that bad if she decorated so beautifully for Christmas? Gave us all wonderful gifts? Cooked fabulous meals at the holidays? Smiled so sweetly in our presence when people complimented on how well behaved her children were? Seemed so polite and docile every time we went out in public?" The list goes on and on. I didn't know what to expect when I came home each day from school. It felt like there were five different people living within my mother: the angry and physically violent mother, the depressed, weeping, self-loathing mother; the critical, non-validating mother; the sweet, angelic, laughing mother; and the paranoid, delusional mother. My therapist answered me and told me that when my mother did these things, it was to satisfy her fantasy, not mine or my siblings. People with BPD are lost in a dream world that no one can see. They write plays and assign roles. They just don't tell you what the lines are or what your role is until something happens that doesn't match their own personal drama, and then there is hell to pay!

I can certainly empathize with your feelings of ambivalence about your mother and how you question your own sanity. I questioned myself for many years. My siblings all have some form of mental illness as a result of the physical, emotional, and sexual abuse. I carry a lot of guilt because, while I have my own set of problems, I have no mental illness. (I took the battery of tests because I was worried.) I wanted so much to help my mother and my siblings. You cannot reach these people unless they want to be reached. Having a conversation with my mother and one of my sisters is like having my head put in a blender on high! There is no way for me to have a conversation with them that is rational. They immediately twist and turn my words and make assumptions about what I have said. I have been accused of talking about them behind their backs and have been physically threatened by both of them. My sister threatened me with a steak knife when I was 17 because I made a comment about the topic on the Donahue show. She threw her bowl of cereal across the room, grabbed a steak knife, thrust it in my face, and stated "You are talking about me!" There are no words to describe the terror I felt in that moment. You are not the crazy one. Keep telling yourself that.

To live with a  person who has BPD is the feeling of being in a pressure cooker that can blow at any time. I finally gave myself permission to live a chaos-free life. This meant without my family. It has been a struggle, and very painful because I so want to have a family that I can depend on, one that loves me unconditionally. I am just now learning to live on my own, without family, without a partner, and very far away from my friends.

I wish you much joy and happiness and that you someday give yourself the permission to live this way!

[woodsposse]

I asked my therapist that very question. "How can my mother be all that bad if she decorated so beautifully for Christmas? Gave us all wonderful gifts? Cooked fabulous meals at the holidays? Smiled so sweetly in our presence when people complimented on how well behaved her children were? Seemed so polite and docile every time we went out in public?" The list goes on and on. I didn't know what to expect when I came home each day from school. It felt like there were five different people living within my mother: the angry and physically violent mother, the depressed, weeping, self-loathing mother; the critical, non-validating mother; the sweet, angelic, laughing mother; and the paranoid, delusional mother. My therapist answered me and told me that when my mother did these things, it was to satisfy her fantasy, not mine or my siblings. People with BPD are lost in a dream world that no one can see. They write plays and assign roles. They just don't tell you what the lines are or what your role is until something happens that doesn't match their own personal drama, and then there is hell to pay!

I can certainly empathize with your feelings of ambivalence about your mother and how you question your own sanity. I questioned myself for many years. My siblings all have some form of mental illness as a result of the physical, emotional, and sexual abuse. I carry a lot of guilt because, while I have my own set of problems, I have no mental illness. (I took the battery of tests because I was worried.) I wanted so much to help my mother and my siblings. You cannot reach these people unless they want to be reached. Having a conversation with my mother and one of my sisters is like having my head put in a blender on high! There is no way for me to have a conversation with them that is rational. They immediately twist and turn my words and make assumptions about what I have said. I have been accused of talking about them behind their backs and have been physically threatened by both of them. My sister threatened me with a steak knife when I was 17 because I made a comment about the topic on the Donahue show. She threw her bowl of cereal across the room, grabbed a steak knife, thrust it in my face, and stated "You are talking about me!" There are no words to describe the terror I felt in that moment. You are not the crazy one. Keep telling yourself that.

To live with a  person who has BPD is the feeling of being in a pressure cooker that can blow at any time. I finally gave myself permission to live a chaos-free life. This meant without my family. It has been a struggle, and very painful because I so want to have a family that I can depend on, one that loves me unconditionally. I am just now learning to live on my own, without family, without a partner, and very far away from my friends.

I wish you much joy and happiness and that you someday give yourself the permission to live this way!

I swear on a stack of bibles I had this exact same conversation today with my brother - and almost used the EXACT same words to describe how I feel.  Almost exactly.

This is one of the reasons I know for a fact it wasn't me.  If it were me ... . then how are their other people on this planet that I don't know... . can't possibly have known... . come from probably totally separate parts of the world but have the EXACT same story and using almost the EXACT same words to describe what has been going on?


It's impossible. 

And it can't just be a coincidence.  It can't be.

[diega]

Thank you woodsposse,chlljohns,coraliesolange,rebl.brown,Daliah,swampy, starstruck,Islandgrl,losingconfidence,and Contradancer.

I just continue to reread your posts when I feel nuts and confused .  yeah, I used to also say black is white and white is black , hot is cold etcetc .  It just seems to me if this person is soo evil and twisted to one person, how can she hide it soo well.  ?  I mean, i know why... its sort of rhetorical question... . i already know the insidiousness of BPD.  but still.    it must be that ten year old kid in me that says 'its not FAIR!  the good are supposed to win in the end! " and really... . she has flourished and I pretty much have nothing. not to be whiny or anything but its true .

yesterday I heard her on the phone with her friend saying  "oh i WISH i could take away your pain!  I am SOO SORRY! oh, get better and if there is ANYTHING i can do, PLEASE let me know!"  (she is very effusive with her friends!)  i know, i know it's not real, but still. to live like this every day... . pretty amazing. last year i was on crutches and she said nothing until the second week when she sniffed as if i had insulted her by being on crutches 'what happened to YOU?"  i know, i know its what BPD's do.   it's xactly as chlljohns described.

i don't understand how those who do not have live with a BPD feel guility if they dont see them or talk to them on the phone. when i am well enough to leave here i will NEVER want to see her again. 

i just wish their were ONE show on tv about it, just ONE article in a popular magazine... . how about an ad for BPD medication on tv?  just something out in the popular culture !



What Deliah said is very true:

"I deal with many highly ambitious people at work who, based on hints here and there, likely think that we all had the same chances starting out and that our disparate positions simply reflect better and worse choices and different intellectual ability levels. "

This is what also adds to the crazy feeling--when people seeyou and where you are at and they don't ge and u feel that and you want to scream about all the abuse and trauma but u can't tell them.  I am used to it but its all these types of things that once in a while makes you feel confused.

I just hope my physical health can get better and my brains can return and I can one day get a good job and move out. 

In the meantime, every word you are saying has helped me tremendously, I truly appreciate the support.

[Silvi]

Thank you so much! You wrote my stories, I'm almost 50 years old and this is my first post. I just realized yesterday that my mom has BPD. I suffered so much, and you guys Just put a balm over my wounds. I can believe other people felt like this. I felt so lonely and scare for so long. I'm crying no stop now, it feels so sad to haven't know. The one think I truly learned from her was to hide your real self in this successful, funny, smart persona that is strong for everyone, otherwise nobody would love her. But she can hurt me and bring me back to desolation with just a word. I feel a thousand tons had been moved from my shoulders. I hope I can stop crying soon. Thank you, thank you!

[Ziggiddy]

Diega - congratulations on persisting in your endeavour to retrain your mind. What a relief this all was to read. Maybe the ingrained self doubt of shifting realities takes a long time to erase. Or accept.

Little does he know how cruel it is for him to blame the victim.

Swampy -THANK YOU. I feel this urge to discuss all this new understanding with friends/family but they don't get it. Then I blame myself for burdening them whilst just feeling that little bit annoyed that they are preaching long suffering and forgiveness and understanding. I already gave at the office! You have nutshelled it well.

woods posse

She may have a mental illness, but she isn't insane. 

<APPLAUDING> how very well put. I had not been able to frame this thought but for 6 weeks I have been trying to articulate it as a question. Mind. Blown.

Thank you so much! You wrote my stories, I'm almost 50 years old and this is my first post. I just realized yesterday that my mom has BPD. I suffered so much, and you guys Just put a balm over my wounds. I can believe other people felt like this. I felt so lonely and scare for so long. I'm crying no stop now, it feels so sad to haven't know. The one think I truly learned from her was to hide your real self in this successful, funny, smart persona that is strong for everyone, otherwise nobody would love her. But she can hurt me and bring me back to desolation with just a word. I feel a thousand tons had been moved from my shoulders. I hope I can stop crying soon. Thank you, thank you!

Silvi it takes a lot of courage to speak up - well done. I am glad you are able to find understanding and validation here. Crying is a real useful means of cleansing. I really hope you can grow and find your real self and get free of the destructive patterns this disorder wreaks on its victims. I'm finding it's ok to be 'weak and vulnerable' here even though I'm only new myself. It is so helpful to get your story out there and so many people here so very willing to help support and encourage. Bless you

Peace y'all