When they say they're in therapy...

[Johnny Alias]

How man times has that happened to you?  Your ex BPD or a new potential lover saying they're in therapy and getting their issues resolved. 

Is it REALLY true?  I have to wonder sometimes.  The ex would go to a non traditional therapist that would align chakras with crystals and such, but NEVER talk about anything related to her childhood.  It was meant to be a one shot wonder to help her with addiction issues.  As for seeing the real deal she pretty much refused. 

These other women I've seen lately... . they say they are seeing someone but I really have to wonder if they are just mirroring that I say I'm in therapy and working on my childhood stuff. 

In my mind you should be wary.  A person could have seen a therapist once or twice after being cajoled by a lover, friend, or family... . but it could have been MONTHS ago and they never went back.  That's what makes it believable in their mind and they sound convincing when they say it. 

Just some random thoughts.  I really feel that suffer from Cluster B traits have a HARD if not impossible time admitting shortcomings, failures, and anything imperfect with their lives.  I mean, therapy is a TOUGH road if you want to do some serious introspection.  It goes against Narcissism and self-aggrandizing... .

[tiredndown]

It sounds to me like you are getting really good at recognizing the red flags.

In my case my soon to be ex BPD has never admitted anything is wrong with her. In fact, she has diagnosed me as NPD.

[In_n_Out]

Good topic.  Over the Christmas recycle attempt, I confronted my BPDxgf with the possibility that she may have BPD (I was in a f*** it frame of mind, I just had to know) and she replied via email something to the effect of "so now you know.  Yes, the *last* therapist that I saw in **2007** suggested that I had *some* BPD traits" and that she even had her CBT workbook and that she stopped going because "she met a guy and got distracted" (hark!).  :)uring this Christmas recycle attempt she showed up at my door unannounced one night and said "you're right, I need to just work on me, and go back to therapy, blah, blah, blah".  Of course it was simple enough to learn that she went right back to my replacement and I doubt *highly* that she's as much as looked up the phone number to a T let alone go see one.  She was simply telling me what she thought that I wanted to hear in order to keep me hanging on to that hope that somehow she can be miracled and made in to a perfectly loyal and loving gf/spouse.  Ha!

[Mutt]

Cluster B traits have a HARD if not impossible time admitting shortcomings, failures, and anything imperfect with their lives.

At the core of the disorder is guilt and shame (can't speak for NPD) They split themselves as well as those around them. They project the negative aspects of themselves because they strive for perfection. They can't deal with negative qualities. So yes, short comings, imperfections, failures, that's something that they will project.

I don't know what the ex did on her time with a T, but I can tell you marriage counseling was fruitless. The time was spent with her trying to win the T over and distort facts and make me look like I can't understand the r/s marriage and that I'm not in-tune with her feelings and needs. A colossal waste of time.

The countless arguments that I had with the ex and I was always wrong, it's because she was projecting.

[Madison66]

Cluster B traits have a HARD if not impossible time admitting shortcomings, failures, and anything imperfect with their lives.

At the core of the disorder is guilt and shame (can't speak for NPD) They split themselves as well as those around them. They project the negative aspects of themselves because they strive for perfection. They can't deal with negative qualities. So yes, short comings, imperfections, failures, that's something that they will project.

I don't know what the ex did on her time with a T, but I can tell you marriage counseling was fruitless. The time was spent with her trying to win the T over and distort facts and make me look like I can't understand the r/s marriage and that I'm not in-tune with her feelings and needs. A colossal waste of time.

The countless arguments that I had with the ex and I was always wrong, it's because she was projecting.

WOW!  This is so right on with what I experienced.  We burned through 3 T's before I pulled the plug on couple's T.  The first T we went to saw through my uBPD/NPD ex gf's false front and separated us for individual T after a couple sessions.  There was no formal diagnosis, but the T was going to begin DBT.  Then, my ex gf left T because she said she didn't "safe".  I have continued to use this T for the past two years.  We then went to two other T's, where my ex gf would play victim and project to the point that I began to think I was crazy.  I also experience gender bias with the last two T's where they would almost immediately buy in to my ex's take that I was the abuser or that I wasn't stepping up to emotionally support my ex gf.  It was fruitless and I'm so glad I stood up and said "no more".   

[Mutt]

Cluster B traits have a HARD if not impossible time admitting shortcomings, failures, and anything imperfect with their lives.

At the core of the disorder is guilt and shame (can't speak for NPD) They split themselves as well as those around them. They project the negative aspects of themselves because they strive for perfection. They can't deal with negative qualities. So yes, short comings, imperfections, failures, that's something that they will project.

I don't know what the ex did on her time with a T, but I can tell you marriage counseling was fruitless. The time was spent with her trying to win the T over and distort facts and make me look like I can't understand the r/s marriage and that I'm not in-tune with her feelings and needs. A colossal waste of time.

The countless arguments that I had with the ex and I was always wrong, it's because she was projecting.

WOW!  This is so right on with what I experienced.  We burned through 3 T's before I pulled the plug on couple's T.  The first T we went to saw through my uBPD/NPD ex gf's false front and separated us for individual T after a couple sessions.  There was no formal diagnosis, but the T was going to begin DBT.  Then, my ex gf left T because she said she didn't "safe".  I have continued to use this T for the past two years.  We then went to two other T's, where my ex gf would play victim and project to the point that I began to think I was crazy. I also experience gender bias with the last two T's where they would almost immediately buy in to my ex's take that I was the abuser or that I wasn't stepping up to emotionally support my ex gf.  It was fruitless and I'm so glad I stood up and said "no more".  

I thought I was crazy. I thought I was so out of tune with the marriage and her, I felt confused. She was saying things in such a believable way that it looked like I was not sympathetic to her needs. I felt so dumb. I had one session where I got angry. The T didn't understand the pretext or this pent up frustration before all of this. He sided with her and I looked really bad in that session. I looked like the aggressive controlling partner. She was in there distorting and projecting, that was the reality of it.

My P was falling for my ex after we split. She would not diagnose her because she was not there. I was charged with dv charges, my spouse attacked me. I brought that up with my P and she said "but you attacked her" I told the P that even in this office with her not being here, the presence and influence of BPD is here. You automatically assume that I was the perpetrator because all men are guilty when it comes to abuse. After the countless T's not picking up on the black / white thinking etc... . I had enough. I was ready to quit on the P, but the sessions continued after that, but I refused to be blamed for something because it's a norm in society to blame men for abuse.

[Madison66]

Mutt - I'm sorry you got hit with DV charges.  I felt like that was where my situation was headed if I had continued with the r/s and the physical abuse increased.  Others around me have said the same thing.

My huge learning with T: PD or not, if there is emotional and/or physical abuse in the r/s the only way that couples T can be effective is if the abuse is the central subject of the T and the abuser admits to it.  In my case, after how things would go down during the sessions I felt that I needed to work harder at the r/s and actually rationalized the abuse even more.  I have a hard time with that one.  I realize now the PD and the projecting was way more complex and hidden than these T's could understand in one hour increments without fully understanding the history of the r/s.  Period.  End of story... .

[Mutt]

Mutt - I'm sorry you got hit with DV charges.  I felt like that was where my situation was headed if I had continued with the r/s and the physical abuse increased.  Others around me have said the same thing.

My huge learning with T: PD or not, if there is emotional and/or physical abuse in the r/s the only way that couples T can be effective is if the abuse is the central subject of the T and the abuser admits to it.  In my case, after how things would go down during the sessions I felt that I needed to work harder at the r/s and actually rationalized the abuse even more.  I have a hard time with that one.  I realize now the PD and the projecting was way more complex and hidden than these T's could understand in one hour increments without fully understanding the history of the r/s.  Period.  End of story... .

Thanks Madison66. DV charges were back in 2010 and I'm a slim guy, usually around 155-160lbs, and I dropped down to 138 during that time. A lot of stress. I couldn't wrap my head around what uBPDex was thinking at the time. I'm the sole provider and we have a young family and you want to have dad possibly lose his job and go to jail and have a criminal record? I won't be able to leave the country. Her reasoning was that she had to show the kids that dad can't treat mom like that.

Hearing about BPD was 3 years into the future and I didn't know anything about it then.

It was to punish me. She projected her attack on me with constant excuses like "but Mutt you hit me too hard!"

It was a reactionary action to an attack.

Countless T's and parallel solo sessions that I did on my own with another T while we were in marriage counseling. I'll always remember what one T told me now "extend the olive branch"

No. Don't extend the olive branch to an emotionally abusive woman. Have steel re-enforced boundaries, hold her accountable for her wild outlandish behaviors.

Unfortunately Madison66, she's undiagnosed, maybe I had bad T's, maybe she was that good at manipulating others to not see her for what she is. It's in the past. I've learned that if the T is not working for you, quit, find another one. That's why I was ready to quit on my P, it was from these past experiences. I've been through the meat grinder far too many times.