This is going to be a wierd question so prepare yourself...

[love4meNOTu]

Today the most horrible thing occurred to me. I know my ex husband wBPD hates me for divorcing him, he's made that clear.

But do you think they wish we were dead?

I've disliked a few people in my life, maybe even hated them, but I've never wished that they were dead. I did hear my ex say several times that he wished his ex wife #2 was dead.

What do you think?

This is an oddball question, I'm not even sure why I'm asking it. Well, I suppose I"m asking it because I do not understand how disordered people think.

[lucyhoneychurch]

I"ve only posted once in this forum for leaving partners - if you want to see my other one about us being the mentally ill ones... .

The man I see and very very much need to get away from refers to his first 2 wives as "practice wives."

The 2nd one was present when his drug-addicted son age 24 shot himself to death, the son and mom had been arguing and he'd gone over there and told them both to go to bed and then got that call back at home.

For 2 years he can lose it and go into how he wants to kill her, what he's going to do to her grave after he does, very awful private details no woman wants anyone else to hear or know.

And the more he does that, as much as I've come to love him and care about what happens to him in this life, I tell myself, "If you don't watch it, that's how he's going to rant about you too."

And the more he does that, the more heartache I feel for this son who was their only child caught in the middle. This man does not hear fatigue or worries of others at all. The drug use seems to be an obvious outcome for his very bright son to have turned to.

So yes, when he is on the war path (my abusive mother used to call it that too I am so programmed to absorb his crap) he could really be thrown in jail for the spewing threats out of his mouth if the wrong people heard them.

Asking him to stop talking that way? HE HAS EVERY RIGHT YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT F'IN WOMAN blah blah blah.

I have never known her like I do him. Only saw her at their son's wake.

Good lord. it's brutal.

Disordered people blame anyone and everyone (oh wow you should hear him go off about this boy he lost, when I tried to spend Father's Day out of town with him and 8 hrs into it I ended up putting him out of my car at his friend's driveway ON FATHER'S DAY because he so lost it in my tiny little Honda) they blame people for the ways their lives have crapped out when they cannot hold their emotions and actions to a normal level. We are all dysfunctional somehow but they win hands down for creating the hurt, creating the hell, but by damn, it's somebody else's doin'.

I'm sorry you are contemplating this man's hatred for you. I would have to ask, except for any threat where you really need to call police, let him be miserable and think such heinous things - if you aren't around him, it's alot like not having to smell an open sewer if you are miles away - it's always going to stink. And I hear you on the horribleness of it.

Sorry I sort of went on. 

[mgl210]

I've learned that there is no such thing as a stupid question, hence I don't think your question is stupid at all...

Personally, I think my ex feels as if I had let her down the most by losing the irish ring that she had bough me as a symbol of us wanting to get married. I will never forget that last convo(text if you will) and she just mentioned that she doesn't think I totally understand how hurt she was when I told her that I lost that ring. The ring only costs 10 dollars, but I do understand. What I don't understand is, she had lost a more expensive engagement ring that I had gotten her, but did I flip out? NOO. I totally understood. As I know that some things are unavoidable of getting lost. I would always tell her that she should never buy me any jewelry for that purpose as I am horrible at losing things... .

I don't think she wishes me dead. I think she wishes more than anything she could pick up the phone and call me and talk to me, but she won't because she is ultra stubborn. Either that or she just is so f$%%ed up in the head that she truly doesn't know what she wants... .

SIgh

MGL

[fromheeltoheal]

Jargon gets thrown around like 'painting you black', 'splitting you black', yadda, which is just a borderline flopping from seeing us as the perfect savior that 'completes' them and erases a lifetime of pain, the white us, to the evil scumbag that is the cause of all their strife, the scapegoat, the black us, both versions motivated by a desire to feel better and cope, in the black and white world of a borderline where there is no grey.

So if a sufferer has extreme feelings they need to off on someone, be it self loathing, shame, fear of abandonment, whatever, so extreme as to be debilitating, it's conceivable that the sufferer could want the projectie dead, since that would bury all that crap along with them, or so they think.  Plus, everyone wears black to funerals, so it would even be color coded.

[Boisnix79]

Color coded, bery bery nice  Liked it haha

[arn131arn]

Today the most horrible thing occurred to me. I know my ex husband wBPD hates me for divorcing him, he's made that clear.

But do you think they wish we were dead?

I've disliked a few people in my life, maybe even hated them, but I've never wished that they were dead. I did hear my ex say several times that he wished his ex wife #2 was dead.

What do you think?

This is an oddball question, I'm not even sure why I'm asking it. Well, I suppose I"m asking it because I do not understand how disordered people think.

My ex told my mother once that she wished I was dead.

Apparently, now that we are apart, she is still trying to  destroy me.

Arn

[love4meNOTu]

lucy honeychurch - I am shocked and saddened to read your post. My jaw literally fell on the floor. I hope I do not offend you by saying I hope you get away from that man. He is as bad or worse than my ex husband. I would rather be alone for the rest of my life than live in that hell. Thank you for what you wrote... it touched my heart and I am so sorry for your pain. I at least have escaped my abusive marriage, I feel that maybe you are trapped. My heart goes out to you. Please PM me anytime if I can help... .

L

[letmeout]

Color coded... . thanks for the laugh

I divorced my BPDex two years ago and people say that he still rages about it.

I'm sure he has wished me dead more times than I can count, but having no contact with him is my salvation.  

[love4meNOTu]

Two years ago? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Ok seriously think about how much energy it would take to stay that angry for that long. I couldn't even do that for a day.

I'd need a nap.

L

[letmeout]

I don't think BPD people ever get over anything. I know that he would hold grudges against people for years for any little real or imagined slight that he thought they did to him. I would hate to have to live like that.

[love4meNOTu]

Well I'm shocked, but when I think about it, my ex husband had been divorced for about eight years when he met me. He hated his ex wife so much... and it had been eight years. I'm going to take a stab at this and say that yes, he hates me and probably wishes I did not exist any longer. I've been worried for too long about what he thought and felt about me. Thank you for the dose of cold reality. I found this article on a mentally abusive relationship, and it is my BPD marriage to a T. I will never wonder what he thinks about me again. It's too painful.

We are the survivors here. We got out.



The Three Stages Of A Mentally Abusive Relationship

Nobody ever walks consciously into an abusive relationship.  Rather they ‘sign up’ for a relationship that, they believe, offers them most of what they want; and they are prepared to compromise on the things that they sense are not on offer.  Or, maybe, they think that, in time, they will educate – or train – their partner to provide the other things that they want as well.


“Is that such a bad foundation for a relationship?” you might ask.  “People do that all the time.”


Of course they do.  You are absolutely right.  Most people settle for a partner who falls short of their ideal – or, to put it another way, people accept someone who does not altogether measure up to their dream.  In some cases it works out well, and in others it can work out very badly indeed.


Why does it work out so badly in the case of abused women?


Quite simply, it is because of the shortcomings that abused women are prepared to accept.  Settling for someone whose appearance, dress sense, social status, and education fall short of your aspirations, may well be a perfectly reasonable thing to do.  Settling for someone who has a string of past relationships that ended badly, a strong sense of grievance, is quick to express fury and contempt – albeit with other people - is akin to putting your hand in the fire; and then being terribly surprised when that hand gets 3rd degree burns.


The way a new partner behaves towards you in the early days of a relationship, when he is out to win your heart, may be less indicative of what lies ahead than the way he behaves towards other people.  Especially the ‘other people’ who ‘don’t matter’; like people in service industries.


But, then, there is denial.


Having worked with hundreds and hundreds of abused women, I am aware of the gulf between how they define the early, heady days of their relationship and the way things truly were.  Women talk about how wonderful and caring their partner was at the start, before he started changing from Mr Nice Guy into Mr Nasty in front of their very eyes.  


There is no doubt that mentally abused women believe the story that they tell.  Equally, there is no doubt that they view the start of their relationship through the rose-tinted spectacles of denial.  In fact, their partner wooed them fast, swept them off their feet, by saying the things that they ached to hear… but – and it is a big but – he showed behaviours that were worrying.  


There were times when he was inconsiderate, when he overreacted to situations and became quite angry or punitive towards them.  His behaviour was, to put it bluntly, selfish: the relationship was about what he wanted, first and foremost.  


In that first stage of the relationship, an abused woman’s mental dialogue is all about making ‘it’ up to him for his past (and present) problems, and making allowances, and excuses, for behaviours that, she senses, are less than ideal.  He may look good, and dress well, and there may well be “chemistry”.  So, the woman overlooks fundamental differences in their values, and attitudes regarding relationships.


In the second stage of the relationship, Mr Nasty has become very much a part of the relationship, because abusive behaviours are becoming more and more routine.   Mr Nasty may be around rather more of the time than Mr Nice Guy.  By now, the abuser has largely stopped making the effort to please his partner.  Why should he?  Most of the time he can get what he wants from her through intimidation, anger or punishment.  Why does that work?  Why doesn’t she just walk away – as she knows that she should?  Because she thinks back to all the “potential” for being a great partner that he showed in the early days.  She tells herself that, if she tries a little harder and shows him more love and support, sooner or later he is bound to turn back into Mr Nice Guy.  When that happens, she will finally have the relationship she desires.  


Besides, by now, she has invested so much of her heart and her identity in him that she can’t bear to throw away what they had.


In the third stage of the relationship, Mr Nice Guy is little more than a distant memory; at least where his partner is concerned.  He may turn on the charm when he is out in public, he may dust off his “nice” side for the benefit of any other woman in town, but in the privacy of his own home he is cold, unloving, faultfinding, punitive and contemptuous.


Naturally, his treatment has taken its toll.  By this stage, his partner has been so brainwashed by the constant mental and emotional abuse that she has lost her confidence, her self-worth, and her sense of her own identity.  She is constantly fearful of provoking another outburst, and she blames herself for everything.  Worse still, she has come to treat herself as badly as her partner treats her.  She feels completely drained, desperate and hopeless.  She simply cannot see a way out.


She is blind to the way out for two very important reasons.  First, she doesn’t understand what has happened to her, and that it is not her fault.  Second, she doesn’t know how to heal and get her life back on track.  Because she has been so brainwashed, it is almost impossible for her to make the journey back to health on happiness without expert help.  


Happily, the world is not as she has been conditioned to see it.  With expert abuse recovery support, she will be able to let go of her abusive relationship and create a meaningful life for herself.  


A mentally abusive relationship may feel like a living death.  Fortunately, there is life after mental emotional abuse.  Having survived a mentally abusive relationship, means that you have the strength to heal, and a tremendous capacity, as well as hunger, for the happiness you desire.  


Will you take action to create that meaningful life for yourself?

[seeking balance]

This is one of those questions that "one size does not fit all" - honestly.

BPD is an attachment disorder, painting you black means painting you as the abuser, not necessarily that he wants you dead.  Or, if the rage goes too far in a moment of rage, maybe he wishes you to be dead.  Overall though, I don't think this is necessarily a BPD thing... . there are plenty of nons on this board that I have seen post some pretty vile things about their BPDex's which includes wishing they were dead.

What emotion in you prompted the question Love4?

[love4meNOTu]

Thank you seeking balance...

It's that I have such a hard time understanding his hate. He hated so easily, for such small things. Everything was an overreaction, like the world was out to get him. Like I was out to get him.

I wondered that since he seemed to wish that his first ex was dead that perhaps he wished the same of me. It was kind of a shocking thought, and honestly, it just occurred to me today.

And I wanted the experience of others. If their BPD ex's wished them harm. Perhaps I need further validation that I did the right thing in divorcing him.

L

[love4meNOTu]

Well crud. That's not it either.

It's that I'm dating someone. It's bringing up some things I thought I would be ok with. But there is still some fear that what happened with my ex husband could happen to me again.

And someone else would hate me and wish me dead.

Oh good lord.

Perhaps that is why I have been posting like a madwoman today. My head is doing me in.

[seeking balance]

Thank you seeking balance...

It's that I have such a hard time understanding his hate. He hated so easily, for such small things. Everything was an overreaction, like the world was out to get him. Like I was out to get him.

It helped me when I stopped trying to understand in my logical mind and accept the facts of the disorder as facts that I (someone not BPD) will not really ever understand fully.

I wondered that since he seemed to wish that his first ex was dead that perhaps he wished the same of me. It was kind of a shocking thought, and honestly, it just occurred to me today.

Well, chances are high that if this is a "Go to" answer for him, he thought it of you.  Keep in mind, how HE means it might not be how YOU interpret it... . without asking him "what do you mean by that" you are assuming a lot.  The staying board is full of folks assuming rather than asking - it is one of the basics in communication with a pwBPD.

And I wanted the experience of others. If their BPD ex's wished them harm. Perhaps I need further validation that I did the right thing in divorcing him.

L

Ahhhh - guilt maybe?

Nobody goes into a marriage to get a divorce - if you were like me, you took the vows seriously... . letting go of that guilt takes time to recognize what it is and then challenge your own thinking of the truth... . what is your truth Love4?  Did you have any other choices but to divorce him and maintain your own self?

[seeking balance]

It's that I'm dating someone. It's bringing up some things I thought I would be ok with. But there is still some fear that what happened with my ex husband could happen to me again.

maybe you are feeling guilty for dating someone - how long has it been since the divorce?  Are you judging yourself?

[love4meNOTu]

well your kindness made me cry.

He's been gone for nine months, we've been divorced for five months of the nine. He's been engaged for a while.

Yes, I was so afraid of him. I knew if I stayed I would be reduced to nothing, and my children's lives would be affected by his violence and anger. I didn't have a choice, and it was horrible divorcing someone I loved.

The new guy, this is not his fault, he's very nice. It's just possible that I am not ready yet. He's actually the type that is nice enough to wait for me to be ready.

thanks for the clarity... the human brain is a complex thing, it constantly takes me by surprise.

But I guess it's no wonder that I am scared to death.

[santa]

Probably.

[myself]

I'm not sure if they would like us dead (some probably do), but being alive reminds them of who they are, who they could be, and who they were when with us. That's one of the main reasons why we get pushed so far away and scapegoated.

[Tausk]

As SB said, it's a Disorder and not one size fits all. And trying to figure out the Disorder in too much detail is a exercise in the Disorder itself.

To help me, I usually use the traumatized three year old analogy.  It helps me the most.  I think about an emotionally and physically abused and unstable three year old, who has a limited sense of self, and very limited abilities to process emotions and responsibility.  And then I tell that f'ed up three year old that he can't have the cookie that he wants.    And then he takes it anyways, and tell him no and shame him.

He's going to think that I'm being abusive.  He's going to think that I'm evil.  He's going to maybe feel shame, but doesn't have the capacity to take responsibility for his actions.  And he's probably going to hate me.

And in some cases, at that moment, that traumatized three year old might wish that I were dead.  Then he wouldn't have to feel the shame.

Haven't we all heard a child in a tantrum scream, "I hate you and wish you were dead."

When I was young, I've at times also wished that certain teachers, bosses, or bullies were dead and even on the fringe my parents.   Then I'd be free.  So, it's not a stretch to believe that a traumatized three year old might wish that on me.

But, today it's not my job to justify to the three year old or even really care about what the three year old thinks about me.    Right now, it's my job to depersonalize the feelings from the three year old and try and understand why I'm so vulnerable to and dependent on what the three year old feels and says. 

[Take2]

Depending which way the wind is blowing. ... my ex has flat out wished a painful lonely death... .

[lucyhoneychurch]

Love4, thank you so so much for your kind concern and response. I'd known him for over 15 years. I have asked if his son were still alive, how much would I have let him in? or let myself in?

And I had very much bounced from a connection with a college friend who is paraplegic and on so many levels had been doing same headgame stuff about HIS first wife - he was outraged that when he denied her having a baby even though she was one who nursed him back to function after drunk driver para'd him... . she left, met a really sweet man, had a daughter, then was pregnant again and (his reason for outrage) she was TRAVELLING in her 8th month. He was stalking her on FB. As a mother I told him, I guess once you divorced her, her choices in this life are no longer your business. Not a happy camper. Like my farmer guy, I would shop for this man, help him change bedding or buy new bedding when all hell cut loose in his body... . etc etc. Lather rinse repeat.

The abusive farmer told me that my para'd friend "wanted you on his terms." I would agree. And then he has done exact same thing.

My children's father is dx'd antisocial personality disordered. Leaving him was best decision for my survival ever. But then I immed plunged into both of these situations back to back. I have tried to put ME under the microscope since I am the common denominator of all these failed awful connections.

Day 3 of no contact with farmer - I am breathing, I mean physically can feel air going in lungs... . your article that you posted - where did you find my name and life history? makes me want to  :'(  and   simulataneously. Childhood prepped me to be someone's scapegoat, caretaker, handholder, nose wipe, arse wipe, and keep coming back for more.

Every man I've wrongly pursued (and I do pursue these catastrophic connections via what I think at hte time is loving, helpful, "partner" actions) is perfectly capable of living without me and doing just fine. I fool myself every time, as the comments get crazier and meaner and uglier, about others and then really and truly about me, on gut level topics... . I fool myself every time.

That article had such clairvoyant type phrases and images in it.

When my printer decides not to sound like a machine gun ( when I finally shop for a new one) I am going to print that out. My dear lovely older lady friends, like sisters and one like the mother I never had, have said exactly those things all along.

Literally, the road to hell is paved with good intentions and I am the one out there with the mortar and stones doing it to myself one more damned time.

You are very very kind. I appreciate your obvious panic and when I finally and "for real" do same for myself, I will be able to detach from farmer like I did guillotine-like with that very sad man who just happened to be paraplegic. I think he had issues with women long before living in a wheelchair.

These boards are really and truly and sadly so much about US. We all have these hurtful people with disorders in common, the events so similar, but man oh man, is it about how we *allow* abuse because we are on that channel from young years (in my case anyway) and blindfolded with our own decisions to reality.

Your weird question led me to be able to read that article. Thank you so much for plunging in and asking it.

Be well and safe. 

[feelingcrazy7832]

The last contact I would have with my ex before I had a PPO served on him was him sending text after text telling me he wants me dead. He also screamed in the phone in the worse rage I've ever heard him in that he hated me so much he would probably slit my throat if he had seen my face right then.

Little did he know that I wasn't the same person that he had for 3 1/2 years that would take something like that as just another rage and make excuses for him. I served him with a PPO.

He too spoke horribly about his ex wife and made up a ton of lies about her. When I confronted him with it, he went off in another massive rage as he did any other time he was caught in a lie. At this point, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he was a sociopath.

[Dog biscuit]

I have asked if his son were still alive, how much would I have let him in? or let myself in?

I can relate! I developped a r/s with my exBPDbf after his former girlfriend commited suicide. Would I have let him in as deep as her death had not happend? I dont think he would have come this deep inside of me, I would havekept him at armslength a lot longer, maybe he wouldhave never gotten in, if she didnt die. I let my defences down to help him when he was obviously in great pain and despair. Its so sad.  :'(

[lucyhoneychurch]

So you've been there too, Dog Biscuit... .

and to bounce off your screen name for a moment... . my ol' farmer buddy has 3 dogs that worship him... . the oldest being 14 and his late son's puppy of years ago... . the other two his in the meantime, one a stray and the other this freaky "wild child" boxer/Rhodesian mix.

I have such fear and trepidation for his ability to cope when elderly girl passes... . last link with this young man... . she had huge thyroid issues this time last year, I thought it would be almost any day but meds brought her bouncy spunky self back since then - Lab Ches Retriever mix.

That time might just have to come for him without me navigating him through it except from great distance.

Yes, the suicide of their loved one or former loved one in your s/o's case really can let us rescuer types (speaking about myself here) really not hear and see those flags rippling and snapping in the abusive partner's or potential partner's wake.

He'll quote some crap from Love Story about "love means never having to say you're sorry!" Absolutely - for a disordered broken psyche of decades-old patterns and cycles and survival mode thinking, just like any of us are trying to survive, that might be the only way. No mirror there, no self-instrospection.

My answer to that was, "Well, for me, love might mean saying you're sorry for your transgressions more than once if it helps your loved one cope with your stuff."

I am pretty sure if his son were still alive it would've only made me more wary, as so many of our "just friends" discussions over the years were about this young man's drug abuse, nasty user/abuser friends, etc.

There wouldn't have been much to draw me in if this abyss had not swallowed him up. And he verbalizes SUCH rage AT this boy, not ABOUT him. My god... . I asked him last summer, on this young man's 25th (or should've been) birthday, "if you can't give him unconditional love even now, who will? I won't listen to you demolish him like that again."

Until Father's Day *this* year, same rant about how that boy never gave him a card, never said Happy Father's Day (he was talking about when this child first left with the mother age TEN!).

As he got more agitated in my car, his body started getting violent and I had to dump him at a friend's very very long country drive in a pouring rain.

Well... . guess who was the bad guy for doing that? Me (and I'm a girl/woman actually).

All this wordiness to say, I bet you get it.

[lucyhoneychurch]

Love4, this thread has given me such resolve this morning, when I usually fall under the spell of the early morning HEY how ya doing? text he will send after volcanic rages like all is well with the world - today I texted back, "I am committed to stepping out of this cycle. You will be better off for it as well, and I cannot continue playing my part in this."

I deleted his contact from the phone.

Whenever I've made it through the first couple of days, I'm good for months.

Maybe months will turn into better years for me. In general as well not just where he's concerned.

thank you again for thinking out loud about the "do they wish you were dead?" question.

[letmeout]

That was a good analogy tausk.

Staying married to my BPDh reminds me of the following story... .

A pretty girl picks up an injured poisonous snake and nurses it back to health,

After the snake gets better, he bites her.

She is shocked that he bit her saying 'but I nursed you back to health!'

The snakes replies, 'but you knew what I was when you picked me up!'