Right and Wrong vs. difference of opinion

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

I'm from a big family and my siblings and I will use Las Vegas to meet every so often.  My UBPDw has been to Vegas twice and has an issue with the 'inappropriate' aspect of Vegas, even though my family has never participated in that type of activity.

So we've begun talking about a trip later this year and when I got home my wife kept asking me where we would stay.  After the second time I told her it would depend on the price I figured she was really asking about something else.

"Well I wouldn't stay at the Flamingo because they have a topless show... . "  We went to the computer and sure enough they added an adult show since the last time we were there (she obviously had looked into it... . ). 

I told her OK, make a list of hotels you don't want to stay at and when we start looking at prices we won't stay in any of them.

She wouldn't let it go... . "So if I didn't say anything you would have stayed there?"  I said yes, I could stay there and simply not go to the show, but since you don't want to stay there we can stay someplace else."

But because I didn't share her opinion she kept on about how sad she is because I don't respect her enough to not want to stay there on my own.

Finally I get upset and ask her how she can keep arguing about something even when we're doing what she wants!

This is one of her favorite excuses to rehash the same arguments over and over... . there's no end if we discuss something, come to an agreement and then live by it because she feels bad that she's "taking something away" from me.

I wouldn't have gotten into so much detail but this is her main starting point for the endless arguments.  How do you firmly end the discussion when she complains it's what I think that causes her insecurity and distrust?

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[Wrongturn1]

IIHOIIM:  Great question, and I certainly can relate.  The most recent similarity in my life is that my behavior is squeaky clean, so uBPDw does not have anything to distrust me about, so she invents hypotheticals to rant about during dysregulated episodes.  So recently, during a dysregulated episode of hers (when I would have been better off detaching and walking away 5 minutes prior), she said that she suspected that if a woman hit on me while I was away on a business trip, I would not tell her about it, which she used as further justification to be angrier with me.  Nevermind the fact this has never happened and is not likely to occur; this hypothetical was enough for her to justify her mistrust and rage.

I would suggest you check out the lesson (click the link to the right) on stopping circular arguments - there is some helpful material in there.  Also, always remember that you have a right to your own thoughts, and I suspect your thoughts line up a lot closer to reality than her's. 

[an0ught]

Hi IsItHerOrIsItMe,

from what you write your wife believes you are not a saint. You may claim otherwise. We here on the board tend to believe you as we know you may not be a saint but being in a relationship with a pwBPD is so stressful you don't want to add additional stress on top  

While we believe you your wife does not believe you are a saint. You can claim and act like a perfect saint, give her extraordinary control over your staying etc. and it still will not be enough.

Your wife clearly thinks you can't be trusted near a topless bar. You may go there, ogle at the women and then take a stripper to bed. Probably with another member of your big family. And then run away with her.

It is total nonsense. It's fear running amok. The key is now not arguing against the nonsense but tackling the driving fear head on.

When your wife is afraid that you succumb to sin in Vegas you tell you that you are a saint. <-- Look how well sin and saint go along - not much. This is called "invalidation". It tends to amplify the underlying emotion i.e. fear. And once emotions become too strong the brain switches off and anything becomes possible.

A validating response would be to tell your wife that she "is afraid you look at topless women". That she is "afraid that a stripper steals you away from her". That she thinks "all men can't be trusted around strippers". etc...

You can't talk her out of her fears. Trying to do so just makes it worse. Do not JADE Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain. It is her job to rain in her fears. You can only validate her fears to help her a little. More on validation in the LESSONS.

And you can have boundaries e.g. not being separated from your family. If everyone stay in the Flamingo then does it really make sense to stay elsewhere? You would be giving up valuable family time and waste time of other family members in order to bend backwards to irrational fears of your wife that are not becoming smaller the more you bend. This is just one example - check out the workshop on boundaries and think about what your Values are and how to protect them: BOUNDARIES: Examples of boundaries

[bruceli]

IIHOIIM:  Great question, and I certainly can relate.  The most recent similarity in my life is that my behavior is squeaky clean, so uBPDw does not have anything to distrust me about, so she invents hypotheticals to rant about during dysregulated episodes.  So recently, during a dysregulated episode of hers (when I would have been better off detaching and walking away 5 minutes prior), she said that she suspected that if a woman hit on me while I was away on a business trip, I would not tell her about it, which she used as further justification to be angrier with me.  Nevermind the fact this has never happened and is not likely to occur; this hypothetical was enough for her to justify her mistrust and rage.

I would suggest you check out the lesson (click the link to the right) on stopping circular arguments - there is some helpful material in there.  Also, always remember that you have a right to your own thoughts, and I suspect your thoughts line up a lot closer to reality than her's. 

So does mine, exactly the same.  I believe she does this so she is able to justify her anger and dysregulation.

[GaGrl]

Does she understand that the adult show at the Flamingo is a ticketed variety show, and not a topless bar/show that just anyone can walk into?  The last time I gambled at the Flamingo, I only happened to look up and see the Revue tucked away in a corner.  They were much more focused on the Donnie and Marie Osmond Show -- and you know that is wholesome!

But that would be logical -- pointing out the reality of the hotel setup (too bad, because the price and location of the Flamingo is superb) -- and we know that logic doesn't work with a PD.

Yes, check out the info on stopping circular arguments.