Reasons for staying

[guitarguy09]

 

I thought it would be nice to hear of everyone's reasons for staying in their r/s w/pwBPD. I know everyone on this board goes through quite a bit, and that everyone must have a strong reason for staying. I'll start out:

I am staying because I love my uBPDw and I believe that she loves me. We have a nearly 2 yo S together, a great dog and a house together. I stay because despite her uBPD issues, we have a lot of fun together and have a lot in common. I believe she is learning from her past relationship mistakes. She has made strides to apologize to people she has wronged before. Our relationships and more specifically hers have been rocky but again I feel she is improving in this area. The situation with my family and her is another story, but I have recently discovered I may have a narcissistic family which explains some of why she does not tend to like them very well.

What are your reasons for staying?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[hergestridge]

Because I have no idea what would happen to my 3 year old daughter and my wife if I would leave. At this point there is no reason to assume things would work out OK after a separation.

My wife is a grown woman and responsible for herself, but the kid... .

My wife doesn't have a proper insight in the magnitude of her problems, and neither have the authorities I'm afraid. When a T or a doctor gets to close to the core problem she makes sure to switch doctors or therapists.

If we were to split up I'm sure we'll find ourselves in a situation where she's downtalked her problem to a slight anxiety problem, although her previous therapists set a BPD diagnosis and threatened to call the authorities on her for child abuse.

So for the safety of the child I'm along for the ride. Sometime it's workable, as long as her expectations are realististic.

After our daughter was born her BPD symtoms got worse and after we've been together for 18 years she began cheating and various other really dysregulative behaviors, which led to renewed contact with psychiatry and eventually a BPD diagnosis and even hospitalization. If it wasn't for our child I would have left her at that point for sure, because with the diagnosis it became obvious to me what an abusive relationship I've been living in for many, many years. It didn't become any easier.

I guess you can understand that I can't be outspoken with my wife about why I'm staying, even though I think she understands.

[guitarguy09]

That's a good of reason as any for staying. So your daughter can have one "normal" parent. I thought that even if I wanted to get divorced, it would be very tough to get full custody since courts always lean in the way of the mother, and my wife doesn't show many outward signs like violence or abuse that would show her as an unfit mother. There are plenty of emails where she has gone on a rant against my family, but I don't think those would be enough by themselves.

Sorry to hear about your situation.

[SleepsOnSofa]

There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that if we didn't have a 6-year-old daughter, I would be divorcing. However, I am deeply concerned that the best I could hope for in a custody battle (and I'm sure it would be an ugly battle) would be 50-50 shared custody, with my daughter becoming the battleground for my wife's anger at me. I tell myself that if things aren't better, I will divorce her the day after our daughter turns 18. Sometimes, that gives me something to look forward to, but most of the time, it seems very far away, and I'm sad that I'll have to wait until I'm 61 years old to get out of the life that I am forced to leave. I feel myself eroding as months and years go by, and I wonder how much of me will be left after twelve more years.

The thing that worries me even more now is that our daughter clearly understands that mommy and daddy fight too much, and that most of the yelling is mommy yelling at daddy. She even tries to split us up, tries to send us to different parts of the house, to get us to calm down. I tell her not to get in the middle, but sometimes she does it anyway. She can see how sad I am so much of the time, and comes to hug me after things have been quiet for a while.

I know that my wife grew up watching her father physically, verbally, and emotionally abusing her mother. My wife tells me that he beat her more than once for calling the cops on him when he was beating their mother. this situation ended only when her father died of diabetes-related strokes in his late 40s (I never knew him myself, but I've heard a lot of stories about him). My wife has told me more than once that while the EMS technician was trying to revive him on the living room couch, and her mother, brother and sister were crying hysterically, my wife was hiding in her bedroom, hoping that he would go ahead and die. He did just that. My wife was 14 at the time of her father's death. She hasn't ever had even 5 minutes of therapy or counselling about what she endured as a child.

My point is, I am concerned that my daughter is going to grow up to see her own mother - my wife - the way my wife remembers her own father, as an abusive, raging bully. I wish my wife could see that this is exactly what she's doing, but since the abuse I take is just verbal and emotional, not physical, my wife sees no parallel whatsoever. That being said, I am convinced that if our genders were reversed, I would be being beaten, too.

I will stay for my daughter as long as I can, because I fear that if I am out of the house, especially as our daughter grows older, she will become the brunt of my wife's anger. But my daughter is becoming increasingly aware that our family is not like other families... . she will eventually realize that most kids' fathers don't sleep on the living room sofa every night. I'm not sure how I'll handle it when that happens... . she will eventually ask questions that will deserve honest answers... . answers that I know will provoke my wife to even greater heights.

I'm sorry to have gone on so long. I feel that I'm very alone, and I only have one reason for staying... . to protect my daughter as best I can. Which isn't very much at all, in the long run.

[SleepsOnSofa]

... . I'm sad that I'll have to wait until I'm 61 years old to get out of the life that I am forced to leave.

This should have read, "... . the life that I am forced to lead." The error changes the meaning pretty profoundly, actually.

[joethemechanic]

I stay with my BPDgf because she is good in bed 

[Somewhere]

I stay with my BPDgf because she is good in bed 

DO NOT get her pregnant, and be ready to run.

There are some sharp teeth attached, down there.

[Greenmeadow]

... . I'm sad that I'll have to wait until I'm 61 years old to get out of the life that I am forced to leave.

This should have read, "... . the life that I am forced to lead." The error changes the meaning pretty profoundly, actually.

This is exactly how I feel at the moment "... . the life I am forced to lead"

But is this just me being selfish?

[byfaith]

I stay because I believe she is who God gave me. I want things to be different. There are so many obstacles to overcome and some days they seem to be so overwhelming but at the end of the day I know she is the love of my life, and in spite of the adversities, I want to be there for her and show her unconditional love. Believe me that is easier said than done. It is a spiritual battle. For anyone reading this that believes God and His word read Ephesians chapter 5 (what its says concerning the husband) The husband has the greater commandment. That's why I stay, and that's why I love her. They two shall become one flesh. 

[guitarguy09]

SleepsOnSofa - Be careful, because sometimes it can actually be worse to stay together if your wife yells at you all the time. I heard from my therapist a while back that it is actually worse for a child who is old enough to understand to see their parents have a really dysfunctional relationship. And it is better to divorce for that reason. But obviously you have to decide how much is too much.

[Love Is Not Enough]

I heard from my therapist a while back that it is actually worse for a child who is old enough to understand to see their parents have a really dysfunctional relationship. And it is better to divorce for that reason.

I know this is true, but does it apply to those in our situation? I think this assumes that you have two mostly "normal" people who are no longer getting along and behaving badly. It is situational only and they will return to a functional state when they are no longer with the person that they are upset with. But we all know that will not happen with our BPDso. With you gone, they will either rage at the children or find a replacement to rage at. So where does that leave us? Trapped. Some of us trapped on the sofa.

[hergestridge]

I think the average social worker would see it differently compared to the child psychologist. The alternative is often having a defenseless child being screamed at instead.

[guitarguy09]

I know this is true, but does it apply to those in our situation? I think this assumes that you have two mostly "normal" people who are no longer getting along and behaving badly. It is situational only and they will return to a functional state when they are no longer with the person that they are upset with. But we all know that will not happen with our BPDso. With you gone, they will either rage at the children or find a replacement to rage at. So where does that leave us? Trapped. Some of us trapped on the sofa.

That's a good point. It is a thin red line for sure. I agree with that. I guess it's more for finding a place where you can live with the situation and be (hopefully) happy most of the time. It would be hard for my therapist to know exactly what it's like because I don't think he has been through it himself.

[lauren50]

So glad to read everyone's answers. I feel like I'm floundering between the staying and leaving boards. My one reason to stay is my daughter and the baby I'm pregnant with. I always wanted my daughter to have a father in her life, something I never had. And with the baby coming, it makes me ache at the thought of putting him/her in the care of someone else so I can work. But I also feel like if I stay, my kids still won't have the father I want for them. He can't see past his own needs and even though it will be a struggle for me financially on my own, we currently live like we're poor because of his spending habits. It seems like it can't get much worse.

[joethemechanic]

I stay with my BPDgf because she is good in bed 

DO NOT get her pregnant, and be ready to run.

There are some sharp teeth attached, down there.

OH GOD, wouldn't that be something. I'm 52 and she is 48.

Actually she was a lot better when her kids were little. She seems to think that since they are in their late teens, they don't need her anymore.

[SleepsOnSofa]

I know this is true, but does it apply to those in our situation? I think this assumes that you have two mostly "normal" people who are no longer getting along and behaving badly. It is situational only and they will return to a functional state when they are no longer with the person that they are upset with. But we all know that will not happen with our BPDso. With you gone, they will either rage at the children or find a replacement to rage at. So where does that leave us? Trapped. Some of us trapped on the sofa.

You actually raise an excellent point that I wasn't even thinking of, Love Is. If what my wife tells me of her past is accurate (and I think in this respect it probably mostly is), she's never been without a boyfriend for more than a couple of months since she was a freshman in high school. Now that I think about it, I am quite sure that if I were to divorce her, my daughter would have a stepfather within the year. I would have less than no influence in my wife's choice of replacement partner; I actually expect that spiting me might be a factor affecting her choice. But I do expect that her pattern of rage would continue, and even if it is aimed only at the next husband and not at my daughter at all, I certainly don't expect that the stepfather would feel much obligation to worry about the welfare of my daughter.

While we were dating, my wife led me to believe that her previous boyfriend had been abusive to her. During the two times I actually encountered him, he certainly behaved in a way that seemed consistent with that perception, and that he was stalking her to some degree while we were first dating. That, added to my knowledge that her own father had been abusive to her mother and herself, really fooled me as we were dating. I knew that I would never abuse her, and certainly never hit her, so I figured we going to be fine. I did not realize that sometimes, the daughters of abusive fathers inherit the personalities of their abusive fathers, not those of their victimized mothers.

Years later, my wife finally fessed up that the prior boyfriend that I had been led to believe had physically abused her, had not been the only one doing the hitting. She told me in a moment of unusual honesty that the only times he hit her were times when their arguments became physical, and that she was hitting him just as much as he was hitting her. She was trying to make was that she could take care of herself, and that no man could beat her up.

So, bottom line, now I have one more reason to stay - to keep that sofa occupied so that it doesn't get taken over by someone who has no commitment to my daughter's safety and sanity. But you're right, it certainly  is a trap, and it doesn't make me happy.

[SleepsOnSofa]

DO NOT get her pregnant, and be ready to run.

There are some sharp teeth attached, down there.

OH GOD, wouldn't that be something. I'm 52 and she is 48.

Actually she was a lot better when her kids were little. She seems to think that since they are in their late teens, they don't need her anymore.

My advice... . use condoms, even if she says she is on the pill or past menopause. My daughter was conceived while my wife was supposed to be on the pill. She assures me that she took it reliably and that the conception happened because we were part of the lucky .5% for whom the pill fails. Officially, I accept that assertion, but privately, I have my doubts. In any case, if I'd used condoms as a "back-up" to the pill, I might be having a very different life today, and I might not need to be a part of this online community... .

Once there's a baby involved, they own you for 18 years. Even a divorce won't get you free.

[ColdEthyl]

I am staying with my BPDh because I love him. The more I begin to understand him, the easier it's been for me to communicate with him in a way to not set the triggers off. My husband is very smart, funny, witty, and we love a lot of the same things. We just have a great time together. 

From reading everyone's comments, it seems like the success rate of a healthy BPD and non-BPD relationship is mostly based on if the BPD can 1. admit their issues and 2. if they are actively working on them.  I am very lucky in the fact that he is self-aware, and has been working with me on his BPD issues. (It took me a few years to 1. figure out if I was crazy or not and 2. for him to admit it, but we got there)

[empathic]

If it weren't for the kids I think we'd have separated already. We moved into a very nice house a few years back, which I would lose. We've also made some new friends (couples) the last years since after moving that would be more difficult to keep in touch with. Before this we've mostly socialized with old friends of my wife, so it's been a step in the right direction for me. Of course my wife has already commented many things about these new friends that she considers flaws.

We both have agreed that the r/s is not good, but she pretty much ignores the option of separating as she "can't stand the thought of only seeing the kids half the time".

Hate being in this limbo though. Like when leaving the kids to play at above mentioned friends a Saturday, they told me "so now you and your wife can get some alone time" (wink wink). If they just knew that I actually dreaded going back to our house.

[Greenmeadow]

I am staying with my BPDh because I love him. The more I begin to understand him, the easier it's been for me to communicate with him in a way to not set the triggers off. My husband is very smart, funny, witty, and we love a lot of the same things. We just have a great time together. 

ColdEthyl,

This is really lovely and exactly how I feel about my dBPDh. I too am lucky that he is self aware. When he reacts in a BPD way, he calls himself being a "BPDfish". I know it sounds stupid, but it's a way of acknowledging that it's not him being that way it's just the illness and allows us to talk about it if we need to.

I feel veyr lucky to be married to a wonderful man, who just has an illness that seriously effects his life and mine too as a consequence.

[guitarguy09]

If it weren't for the kids I think we'd have separated already. We moved into a very nice house a few years back, which I would lose. We've also made some new friends (couples) the last years since after moving that would be more difficult to keep in touch with. Before this we've mostly socialized with old friends of my wife, so it's been a step in the right direction for me. Of course my wife has already commented many things about these new friends that she considers flaws.

We both have agreed that the r/s is not good, but she pretty much ignores the option of separating as she "can't stand the thought of only seeing the kids half the time".

Hate being in this limbo though. Like when leaving the kids to play at above mentioned friends a Saturday, they told me "so now you and your wife can get some alone time" (wink wink). If they just knew that I actually dreaded going back to our house.

Absolutely. Mine does too. We have really good friends (thank God) that we made this last summer. A guy I know from work and his wife. We get along great and his wife has a lot in common with mine. They complain about each other's families (my wife about mine). Lately she has criticized them for buying too expensive of a car. I think I successfully explained to her why that shouldn't really matter and she's not holding it against them. 

[guitarguy09]

I am staying with my BPDh because I love him. The more I begin to understand him, the easier it's been for me to communicate with him in a way to not set the triggers off. My husband is very smart, funny, witty, and we love a lot of the same things. We just have a great time together. 

From reading everyone's comments, it seems like the success rate of a healthy BPD and non-BPD relationship is mostly based on if the BPD can 1. admit their issues and 2. if they are actively working on them.  I am very lucky in the fact that he is self-aware, and has been working with me on his BPD issues. (It took me a few years to 1. figure out if I was crazy or not and 2. for him to admit it, but we got there)

You make some really good points. I agree about the triggers. I have definitely gotten to know my wife's. We know each other better than anyone else. We like the same movies, she even likes the bloody ones I like to watch. 

I'm not sure if she's really working on her issues at the moment or just waiting for another trigger to happen.

[empathic]

Of course my wife has already commented many things about these new friends that she considers flaws.

Absolutely. Mine does too. We have really good friends (thank God) that we made this last summer. A guy I know from work and his wife. We get along great and his wife has a lot in common with mine. They complain about each other's families (my wife about mine). Lately she has criticized them for buying too expensive of a car. I think I successfully explained to her why that shouldn't really matter and she's not holding it against them. 

Yes, mine is rather competitive (secretly so for the outside... . ) so the car comment could have happened here as well. She compares herself a lot to others. The scary thing is that her friends/acquaintances share a lot of characteristics. If they're a couple the guy is often rather "weak". A new couple we've met now the guy is opinionated and competitive, and this does not go well with my wife.

[ColdEthyl]

Thank you, GreenMeadow. I started to think maybe I was hoodwinking myself, or that I am a super enabler because I wasn't experiencing some of the same problems other people are unfortunately having to go through  I think him being self aware is a HUGE factor in it. The first few years, it wasn't like that. But now that we talk about it, and he sees that I'm not judging him, or thinking he is just crazy has really helped him to talk more. I get bits and pieces about how he feels, and what he goes through. Everyday he gets more and more willing to share.

I am staying with my BPDh because I love him. The more I begin to understand him, the easier it's been for me to communicate with him in a way to not set the triggers off. My husband is very smart, funny, witty, and we love a lot of the same things. We just have a great time together. 

ColdEthyl,

This is really lovely and exactly how I feel about my dBPDh. I too am lucky that he is self aware. When he reacts in a BPD way, he calls himself being a "BPDfish". I know it sounds stupid, but it's a way of acknowledging that it's not him being that way it's just the illness and allows us to talk about it if we need to.

I feel veyr lucky to be married to a wonderful man, who just has an illness that seriously effects his life and mine too as a consequence.

[itsnotme567]

I want to stay with her because I love her and made promises to her I married knowing she has serious issues from a car accident that could put in wheelchair at anytime. I wanted her anyway now she is the One that's planning on leaving for reasons that I don't feel are true. She says that I don't love or want her or need her anymore. stay

[Grey Kitty]

First off, I stayed with my wife because I loved her. Now I'll say she's cured of BPD, so it is much easier than it was when I showed up here

Second, as far as the fighting/abuse in the house around kids, and what kids see... . there is another option, and many of us here on the Staying board, have done it... . most of them not having a cured partner:

If you (the non) set solid boundaries about being verbally abused, and refuse to accept it, the abuse will stop. In a few cases, the extinction burst was so severe that the result was police involvement in a DV situation or a separation... . but for many, the result was simply that the pwBPD learned that they wouldn't get the release they wanted by trying to abuse their spouse, and they learned other techniques of self-soothing.

[guitarguy09]

Yes, mine is rather competitive (secretly so for the outside... . ) so the car comment could have happened here as well. She compares herself a lot to others. The scary thing is that her friends/acquaintances share a lot of characteristics. If they're a couple the guy is often rather "weak". A new couple we've met now the guy is opinionated and competitive, and this does not go well with my wife.

I can imagine how that would be. My wife is very nitpicky when it comes to people. I think she is as hard on others and she is on herself. 

[guitarguy09]

Thank you for your responses.

ColdEthyl - That's very good that he is starting to see that you want to work with him on it. I wish I could say the same for my wife. She just thinks that I think she's crazy and don't want to be with her forever (though I reassure her otherwise).

itsnotme567 - That is a very touching thing to do for her, I'm sorry she is the one that is thinking of leaving though. How I wish pwBPD could take things at face value.

Grey Kitty - it's wonderful to hear that your wife is now cured of BPD. That must be a great deal of relief having gotten that far. The boundaries is something I will be working on soon with my wife. It's definitely an important thing to establish.

[sadinsweden]

I am with my BPD because after a very long courtship I moved to Sweden not knowing that he had BPD. I don't think he knew about his anger issues either until I moved in with him. He has always been a bachelor (Hello... . red flag!). And now here I am, stuck in Sweden on a roller-coaster ride.

"Come to Sweden", he said to me. "I promise you, we will have a wonderful life."

If this relationship were based back in the States, I am 95% sure I would have ended it ... . or at the least we would live separately. I would need somewhere to escape to.

Do I love him? Well, I really really did. Do I now? Sometimes. But mostly I'm just afraid him and really sick of the BS. I can't love someone I can't trust. While I can trust that he'd never cheat on me ... . I can't trust that he'll ever be able to maintain his composure. It's just never going to stop.

[Theo41]

1. It stared with physical attraction

2. Next, she's a quality person-well educated, great work habits, excellent social skills, generous (gives great gifts... . I sometimes think its to compensate for her horrible behavior when she disregulates.)

3.  I've grown to love her except when she triggers and acts out. Then I think about leaving and feel like I hate her behavior and can't do it anymore.

4. But like the weather it changes and she enters an ideation phase where she say she loves me and will forecver. I'm the best thing in her life.

5. She fears abandonment and in our lowest moments when I'm leaving, she pulls out the stops and will do anything to keep me. This includes laying on the hood of my car. Hiding my car keys, threatening suicide and threatening to ruin my reputation.

Bottom line: there are lots of pluses in the relationship to balance off the negatives, but also, she won't let me go and I have not had the strength of will to do what I would have to do to leave. Also, we've been married forever and have grown children ( a strong family history together. Theo