Only 7 Hours After She Took The Kids, I Got A Call...

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

... she had trouble with them at the mall. D1 running off. S4 throwing a tantrum. D1 throwing a tantrum. I was on speaker, couldn't quite understand what he was saying at first, but then he said, "mommy was mad at me." Yeah, welcome to daddy's world, dude! She proceeded to tell me about their shenanigans. I purposely didn't take them to the mall on the rainy day yesterday, because I knew how it would be and didn't want to deal with it, even though they listen to me better. 7 hours... . I guess this is my life now. I hope this forces her to try and be better engaged with them.

My friends are leaving early in the morning. I could go get the kids tomorrow, she would let me, But since I've spent 15/16 days with the kids, 3 of them with her being out of state so not around at all, I need a break, too and don't feel guilty. More importantly, she needs to spend time with them. She said their godparents are watching them in the morning for 3 hours, because she has a class. Priorities, woman!

I'll stop by that house and drop off the microwave. She said she had trouble with them because she had to heat up cocoa on the stove. D1 didn't like that and threw a tantrum, threw herself back on the floor. Their mom was concerned about that. I said, "yeah, she's been doing that," not mentioning if she'd been around, she would have observed that cognitive development, because they do mature fast at this age. I took a business trip for 4 days when S4 was the same age and noticed a difference in him after even such a short time. It was a 20 min conversation with her. My friends knew what this was and one of them was smirking, not surprised in the least. I told her to take her microwave, but she said she left it at my house "for the kids." I said they would be spending 50% of the time with her and she needed a microwave, no? I told her I'd drop it off with the kids in the morning (I won't have to see her, since she'll be out doing something for herself, the class). Weird. I think the fun and games are just beginning, and unfortunately, our children will be caught in the middle... . :^|

[Turkish]

... she had trouble with them at the mall. D1 running off. S4 throwing a tantrum. D1 throwing a tantrum. I was on speaker, couldn't quite understand what he was saying at first, but then he said, "mommy was mad at me." Yeah, welcome to daddy's world, dude! She proceeded to tell me about their shenanigans. I purposely didn't take them to the mall on the rainy day yesterday, because I knew how it would be and didn't want to deal with it, even though they listen to me better. 7 hours... . I guess this is my life now. I hope this forces her to try and be better engaged with them.

My friends are leaving early in the morning. I could go get the kids tomorrow, she would let me, But since I've spent 15/16 days with the kids, 3 of them with her being out of state so not around at all, I need a break, too and don't feel guilty. More importantly, she needs to spend time with them. She said their godparents are watching them in the morning for 3 hours, because she has a class. Priorities, woman!

I'll stop by that house and drop off the microwave. She said she had trouble with them because she had to heat up cocoa on the stove. D1 didn't like that and threw a tantrum, threw herself back on the floor. Their mom was concerned about that. I said, "yeah, she's been doing that," not mentioning if she'd been around, she would have observed that cognitive development, because they do mature fast at this age. I took a business trip for 4 days when S4 was the same age and noticed a difference in him after even such a short time. It was a 20 min conversation with her. My friends knew what this was and one of them was smirking, not surprised in the least. I told her to take her microwave, but she said she left it at my house "for the kids." I said they would be spending 50% of the time with her and she needed a microwave, no? I told her I'd drop it off with the kids in the morning (I won't have to see her, since she'll be out doing something for herself, the class). Weird. I think the fun and games are just beginning, and unfortunately, our children will be caught in the middle... . :^|

[Surnia]

Yes, call it game, call it reality check for your wife. My guess is, the next time is not easy for all of you. You are a great father and with you your kids will go through it.

I think good boundaries for you are important. So yes for taking some break this morning. 

[Waifed]

Turkish

It seems to me that she is likely to give up on the kids at some point.  I think she wants to be a good mom but just isn't capable.  Hopefully you will enjoy full custody of them in just a short time so that you will be able to make the hard decisions in their lives for them throughout their childhood.

[Tausk]

Weird. I think the fun and games are just beginning, and unfortunately, our children will be caught in the middle... . :^|

Wow what a post.  I'm glad you're posting here and doing your best to cope.  You're a very strong man.  A man of character and decency.  One thing that I've learned is that I can be doing better than I feel.  I can feel like crap, but if I responded by taking care of things, or even just by resting... . Then I'm doing OK.

Remember, the Disorder needs participants.  And in the Disorder Games, the Disorder always takes the Gold, Silver, and Bronze, and any others fall out of the starting gate to tumble down the hill and hope to survive.

Not participating is not the same as No Contact. It means, detached, depersonalized responses that can minimize the direct damage.  I didn't have any kids with my ex, but I know that this type of response for me helped.  The process of learning to deprogram ourselves is very very similar to the prescribed process for soldiers coming back from Iraq/Afgan with PTSD.  The triggers with our exes set us into flight or fight response, and that moment, survival responses kick in that are usually not productive to the situation.

Hang in there.  Stay in the moment.  BREATHE.  BREATHE.  BREATH.  Post-PTSD/Meditation/Mindfulness classes have helped me to learn to breathe and be a little bit aware.

[Turkish]

Thank you, Surnia, for your approval of taking some time today for me :^)

Waifed, I both hope so and also hope not, that I have to take majority custody of the kids (or full), if you know what I mean. I will be both disappointed and heartbroken if she ends up giving them up. She has a lot of cultural and family pressure, in addition to the narc tendencies to put on the facade of the Good Mom. When she's good, she's good, but the verbal abuse and anger will not go away. She is who she is, no matter how much she fights herself. Trying to get parenting classes added to the stipulation (which I would have no problem participating in) wouldn't help, any more than our communication class, or counseling helped us.

Remember, the Disorder needs participants.  And in the Disorder Games, the Disorder always takes the Gold, Silver, and Bronze, and any others fall out of the starting gate to tumble down the hill and hope to survive.

Not participating is not the same as No Contact. It means, detached, depersonalized responses that can minimize the direct damage.

The Disorder always wins. My job is to make sure it doesn't win against the kids. She isn't like many of the BPD mothers I read about here, not even as unstable as my mom ultimately became starting in my teens. The difference is that my mom knew right from wrong, and despite her BPD traits, did not hurt people, nor was or is a mean person deep down. This whole thing is actually giving me a renewed appreciation that indeed my mom did the best she could, fighting severe depression and horrible repressed memories of her childhood. ":)isorder Games," I like that... .

Well, going to drop of the microwave for her, and spend an hour or so with the kidlets. Then back to another coat of paint. My friends have left, but they suggested a red accent wall in the dining area. Should look sharp. A good way to kill the afternoon, then back to work tomorrow, which is the next big pressure. So much to do... . thank you all for both the explicit and implicit support. I hope I can do the same to you. I feel kind of guilty focusing on my own problems now, but it should get better quickly, I hope.

[seeking balance]

Hey Turkish,

Good job on the boundaries 

How do you feel about this call? I imagine is has to hurt on a few levels.

Peace,

SB

[Turkish]

Hey Turkish,

Good job on the boundaries  

How do you feel about this call? I imagine is has to hurt on a few levels.

Peace,

SB

It didn't hurt me, if that's what you are asking. It was not unexpected. It's just that I didn't expect it so soon. My friends did. They saw me talking and just shook their heads. I walked out to finish the conversation. Later, their mom texted me a photo of them. It was nice. She then said that we should get S4 into sports (always obsessed with socializing him, when he is nothing but gregarious, despite his OCD-like tendencies). I didn't answer that one. Take them outside to get out their energy. Focus on our new financial reality. He isn't going to become a social outcast because he didn't play a team sport when he barely turned 4.

I cooked a nice bbq spread for my friends, then cooked them pancakes for breakfast. I worked in a restaurant as a youth, so putting together a decent meal is no big deal to me. I enjoy serving people, even if my culinary repertoire isn't vast.

I made sure it was time past their mom left the kids in the care of others in the family, then went and spent time with my kids for an hour and half. I started thinking about possible future scenarios, including Waifed's opinion (and the opinion of not quite a few others here with me) that I might end up with full or at least majority custody. I weep for my kids if their mother abandons them. I hope not, I can be supportive as long as I work on my boundaries.

D1 (~21 mos) usually cried a little when her mom used to leave (for legitimate reasons or not), but when I tried to leave, she just hung her head, very sad. I picked her up and she clung to me tightly for a long time. I hugged and hugged her. Kissed her and told her she was the cutest baby in the world and that I'd love her forever and ever (I always tell her that, and that my son's the best son ever and a very good boy). She clung tighter (I started crying when I wrote that). S4 wanted me to stay there with him. I told him I loved him very much and to be good for his mom, that I'd call him tonight and see him in a few days.

Came home, realized I hadn't eaten except for a small pancake and a little yoghurt. Forced myself to eat lunch though I wasn't hungry. The daylight wanes, and it's dreary. I need to do a lot of touch up painting. I may go to the store and get more to paint one wall red. That started out as a joke, but talking about things, we think it would look good for accent.

[Waifed]

You just made me cry too. The love we have for our children is so pure and unconditional. It is so sad that many pwBPD cannot feel a constant connection with others. It is sad for them and confusing for an innocent child who relies on their parents for needs, love, security and direction. Lucky for your kiddos they have a dad who is very stable and lives for them. I used to get frustrated readng your posts because I thought you were too kind. Now after months of following your situation I truly admire the way you handle yourself with class, dignity, steadiness, empathy and sympathy.

You are a good man.

[seeking balance]

It didn't hurt me, if that's what you are asking.

I was asking what did you feel?  It doesn't have to be hurt, but I figured it was some feeling since you are posting about it... . which is totally normal, just wondering what you are feeling is all.

[Turkish]

It didn't hurt me, if that's what you are asking.

I was asking what did you feel?  It doesn't have to be hurt, but I figured it was some feeling since you are posting about it... . which is totally normal, just wondering what you are feeling is all.

in one word?  disappointed... .   mostly that it wasn't even a  day that she feels overwhelmed without me there for back up and support.

another?  validated that this is not my imagination,  or  overreaction.

one more?  overwhelmed of what I  will be dealing with for  in the next decade and a half.

[seeking balance]

It didn't hurt me, if that's what you are asking.

I was asking what did you feel?  It doesn't have to be hurt, but I figured it was some feeling since you are posting about it... . which is totally normal, just wondering what you are feeling is all.

in one word?  disappointed... .   mostly that it wasn't even a  day that she feels overwhelmed without me there for back up and support.

another?  validated that this is not my imagination,  or  overreaction.

one more?  overwhelmed of what I  will be dealing with for  in the next decade and a half.

[gary seven]

 in one word?  disappointed... .   mostly that it wasn't even a  day that she feels overwhelmed without me there for back up and support. ... .

  one more?  overwhelmed of what I  will be dealing with for  in the next decade and a half. [/quote]
The Score is now two crying Dads over Turkish's posts if I counted right.  Not sure, apologies to anyone whose tears I missed.

I'm not anywhere split yet and I get no more than three hours before a call comes in if I am out of the house because of something "the kids did." 

Yes you are overwhelmed,and I am too.  From what I read on the boards we should take it one step at a time.  If you jump to conclusions on that pogo stick, the higher you jump the more fearful everything looks.  If I had to constantly think about  how much financial debt and ruin I am in because of my BPDs, I would go mad.

So I try to calm down, focus on the next hour of stuff that needs to get done, maybe take a 5 minute break to watch a video on you tube of my favorite singer, and get ready to go to bed because I know that tomorrow I have a new day to be my kids' Dad.  Not perfect, by any stretch of any one's imagination.  But in my own way , or in my own mind, tomorrow I get to give them all my love all over again. 

So for me, it is this next decade and a half for me that is the most important.  They are my babies, too.  They grow up soon enough; it is a privilege to raise 'em.  So I plan on giving my love to them all over again every day for as long as I can.

[KateCat]

overwhelmed of what I  will be dealing with for  in the next decade and a half.

Count me in as another forum member who is full of admiration for your character and courage. One day you may find it helpful to read the older posts of Matt, who has shared over a number of years his trailblazing experiences as a single dad. He's another guy of clear values and unwavering purpose, and he's had a lot of experience with creating boundaries, practicing validation, and other lessons spoken of here. I think you'll see a kindred spirit.

[momtara]

sounds like you have custody.  thank your lucky stars, with kids that age.  mine are close to the same ages, though, and it is hard.  my husband doesn't have them often, and it's better that I have them as much as possible, but sometimes i need a break too, so I know where you are coming from. 

Kids have tantrums around 12-13 months... . there is so much they want to do and can't do it.  Just par for the course.

[Turkish]

sounds like you have custody.  thank your lucky stars, with kids that age.  mine are close to the same ages, though, and it is hard.  my husband doesn't have them often, and it's better that I have them as much as possible, but sometimes i need a break too, so I know where you are coming from. 

Kids have tantrums around 12-13 months... . there is so much they want to do and can't do it.  Just par for the course.

Its joint... . for now. I don't have a compelling case at this point to seek more. She would fight it, too, since making over twice her salary, I will give her a very nice car payment each month, in addition to what I am jointly liable for. I'll give her credit for trying to stay within budget, which she learned from me. D1 has the quiet tantrums, which I find funny, though she does throw herself back like a lot of kids do. S4 is starting the terrible 4s. He's overall a sweet kid, but when he gets triggered... . its been winding down with me. We'll see he his mom handles it.

I've been referred to Matt. I think being the single child of a single mom gives me perspective too. Even my mom sees how much harder 2 would be than 1, and I was overall a calm kid. She only remembers one tantrum ever. My pyro stage? That was another thing... .

KateCat, thank you.

gary seven, I like your pogo stick. I tend to go overboard on being analytical. It isn't my mind racing or out of control like my uBPDx, its just the way my mind works. I do know how to slow down and relax though. One of the things she wrote about me was that I was unmotivated, . I'm not a CEO and I never got around to cleaning the garage, I guess? The woman who detached so I had to get up at 6-630 every Saturday and sunday for over the past year while she slept? The guy who's gotten promoted twice and is making 30% more salary over what I was when I met her 6 years ago? The guy who takes care of his kids, her (though she says I "failed" and "lck character", somewhat her family by proxy, and his own mom to a certain extent? The guy who shares multiple patents, is technically published, who moved out the day he turned 18, lived han d to mouth 90% putting himself through school, was already putting $ into retirement and buying company stock at the same age as her boy toy, who's still an undergrad supported by his parents, who didn't go to a schwanky expensive private hs like her BT, but grew up sometimes homeless, living like the 1870s, and dumpster dove for produce as a kid (and a whole lot of other stuff!).

She has no clue. She knows a lot of these things, yet she really never knew ME. One generation off The Rez, birn to a FAS mother who never had a chance and who likewise was adopted. Her childhood and life pales in comparison to mine. Yet I always listened and sympathized with hers, because it was a lot, and each persons story is just that: personal. The lack of empathy and mercy still bothers me.

Sorry to write all of that, I'm not a narc, I swear. Thanks for giving me a safe place to vent. At least she called me to talk to the kids tonight. I feel ok. I painted one dining room wall red. Painted her initial crossed out (like Ghostbusters) first, took a pic and sent it to my buddy. We're both on either side of 40, but I've known him since I was 13, and sometimes those childish bonds remain. A good friend, a bother I never had, and I'm blessed to have him (and his wife) in my life, as I feel with all f you from afar... . thank you.

Turkish