An Apology-Sort Of

[Legacymaker]

So after nearly 2 months of me being NC, I have finally received an apology for the major rant that happened over Christmas. The one that blew the lid off any other. The apology came in the form of a beautiful Hallmark card.  My mothers words were almost sincere enough for me to believe.  "Being your mother has always been such a joyous and fulfilling experience".  I thought maybe I was  being moved back towards the idealization stage.  Then I got to the last line.  It reads "I would be willing to explore the situation if you are.  Nothing is ever one-sided."  Once again the apology has been negated and all the hurt that was caused by the latest dysregulation.     

I would love to be able to tell her that she needs to get counseling, that my pulling away and putting up walls is being caused by her constant verbal abuse.  I would love to be able to trust her kindness.  I dream of a gentle, nurturing woman that could understand the damage she inflicts.  I wish she could see her own anger and hostility directed towards so many.  I want to wrap my arms around her and sooth her pain (believe me when I say I have tried that for 50 years).  I do want to forgive her. Ultimately, I want my mother!

This apology is just more empty words.  The accusation of my many failures lies just under the surface, she is really demanding to be vindicated (again).  I don't know how to move on.  I want to set some boundries, but I don't really know how to start.   

[lucyhoneychurch]

Abusers must believe that there are two sides to any disastrous episode. They cannot and surely will never say, "MY GOD, I can't believe I did that [said that] to you, I am so so so sorry, please forgive me."

If they could do that, even think that, they would not be cyclical perpetual abusers.

I got those self-serving "apologies" once she wasn't getting her way, long before I finally did the permanent NC. She said what she saw as, "I said I was sorry" quickly followed by how I was too sensitive and wanted to control people.

Over and over.

I will lovingly tell you and remind you, you are waiting for what is never ever going to transpire.  A true, contrite loving apology from someone who understands the calamity she has visited upon you - what you and I would bend over backwards to say and do if we'd harmed someone with our words or actions - I know I have done it any time and every time I've hurt someone deeply.

"OH MY GOD, I'm so so sorry." Period.

There are no 2-way streets with an abuser. We are NOT complicit in the abuse. We are NOT part of the problem unless we allow ourselves to continue to be close enough to get hurt.

That's the tragic part about small children - they can't identify it as abuse, they cannot get away, they cannot respond in any fashion except to escalate their abuser's wrath.

We are still those small little girls, read rebl brown's post, my god... . I was shaking my head wondering if I'd come down in the middle of the night and wrote it myself... .

This is why we dream and crave an apology because - wait for it - then we think we'd see that she DOES care, she DOES love me [they do but not in healthy nurturing ways obviously], she DOES listen to me and want to be fair.

You are waiting for what is not going to happen. I will cross over a minute to the newly divorced woman that I became last year, and tell you that when I had the blinding eureka moment that my children's father was doing these hurtful hateful things because he COULD not stop, not because he WOULD not. You see the difference?

Expectations - ZERO.

When we do not expect, we cannot be hurt.

Expectations are for normal folks. I don't know any of them, do you?   

You sure need a hug.

   

[StarStruck]

Hi Legacymaker, really saddened to hear your news. That's painful, all that sustained wait for that. 'may just maybe, she'll see sense this time'.

I completely understand about wanting your mother, sounds like you are like me with you having a painful but normal bond with your mother but in some strange way (we've all prob yet to fully understand) it isn't the same for her; being more limited, with you wanting to break those chains to reach her.

I met mine more than half way for years constantly trying to forget the pain the times I saw her until I couldn't sustain anymore. I felt there's was such a hole to cross because although 'more than half way' to have any sort of relationship worked - she would need a whole load more of something else to be able to see straight & to get to the therapist. I have concluded with mine it's no go because I would be poo'ed upon from a great height to even bring it up. I can't even graze on past events without some twisted words or actions going ahead.

What would happen if you suggested therapy to her? Would you have it in you to support her through that? Or to deal with the aftermath if she was offended? Maybe suggesting therapy before considering putting more distancing boundaries in place.

I was VLC for a couple of years (history: I lived away and she is the ignoring type). I was just in contact my email, being in touch at new yr and at birthdays. After this time I had a lot that surfaced and had to think about. (I subsequently have not be able to reverse therefore this naturally has lead to perm NC, which I'm having to action very soon. This is souly for my welfare and not to spite. I am worried about this step but know in my heart of hearts its the only and best way forward for me sadly).

I hope this has helped in someway, if I think of anything else I will chip back in  

[Sitara]

So many times for me that a "lets discuss this" turned into a platform for her to use to point out how I did more things wrong or more hurtful things or to prove she didn't do anything at all.  It's all so very frustrating.  Once when I brought up something she did, she responded with something she felt I said that was twisted out of proportion.  I knew that I wouldn't have said it in the way she was saying I did, but I apologized anyway thinking that if I did, she would return the gesture and apologize too.  She didn't of course, and now I had admitted to something foul and untrue, giving her more ammunition.

To set up boundaries ask yourself:

What do I want?

Is it realistic to expect from her?

For example, I want my mom to be sympathetic to my problems, but that's not realistic. So a realistic boundary would be to not talk to her about my problems - I can't keep making myself vulnerable to someone who's going to abuse me.

Another boundary I have is that I won't listen to her bash my dad, so when she starts, I remind her that he's my dad and I don't need to be hearing those things from her. 

What are some the boundaries you want to set up and how do you want to enforce them?

[StarStruck]

For example, I want my mom to be sympathetic to my problems, but that's not realistic. So a realistic boundary would be to not talk to her about my problems - I can't keep making myself vulnerable to someone who's going to abuse me.

Blimey what you've written above Sitara really sank in. I could have written that myself 

[Legacymaker]

Thank you all for your feedback and support!

I could really use help with boundries.  I always thought that I understood them, but I seem to get bowled over whenever I try to use them.  I am not sure that I am great at reinforcing them.

My mom hasn't always been this bad.  I use to think we were really close.  In hindsite, we were, as long as I was towing the line and not being my own person. When I began to expect her to show me respect, was when I would say things started to escalate.  The more disagreements we had, the more boundries I needed to establish.  The more boundries, the more arguments and the circle continues.

My husband and I own/have owned our own business(es) for many years.  We are both respected community figures. When we are out in public, we are often stopped by customers who compliment our work/character.  My mother often sees me getting attention for: my intelligence, our businesses, a successful marriage, great kids etc.  We have worked very hard to earn this respect in our community.  This always escalates my mother's dysregulation.

This is very hard for me to understand.  I am so proud of my own son's when they show personal growth. I can't understand what it feels like to be jealous of them in any way.  It just seems that the more compliments I am given, the more successful I become, the more I learn, the more friends that tell me I am worthy, the worse it has been.  I now seem to threaten every part of my mom and we are arguing often.  The only difference between us, is now I fight back!

Because I want to believe in her goodness, I trust her with a lot of information about my life. I do want to share things with her. I do like to be validated by her because her opinion matters to me (it use to be the only one I would listen to) .  I also know, that this dialogue also provides constant ammunition. That is probably going to be the biggest thing I need to change.

[StarStruck]

I love it that you say you are fighting back, keep pushing/establishing those boundaries. Be everything and more you can be... . don't be scared of being even more satisfied with life than you already are. You don't deserve this. Do you really need her validation anymore? you can also add more to life than she ever could by the sounds of it... . Go for it Legacymaker  

Have you seen the tools on here... . like SET etc of how to communicate with them?

[Somersby]

I also recently received an apology from my uBPD sister, after a major rage episode. It was sent as a text message to my cell phone as she does not want to speak to me. It went along the lines of "I am truly and genuinely sorry for all the pain and hurt I have caused you and our whole family for my whole life. I try so hard to be a good person, but perhaps this is an impossibility. I will never cause you any problems again."

My immediate reaction to this message was to panic that she meant she was going to harm herself in some way, but I suspect it was actually her way of saying she will have no more to do with me. On the surface this appears as a genuine apology, however her underlying message is one of self pity, and there is little true remorse in there. Every time we have an argument like this, she will say or do anything she can so ensure that she is the one that inflicts the most hurt, so they she feels she is in control. If she has hurt me, then she feels that she is behind the wheel, she is controlling the flow of the argument and it makes her feel better about herself. I interpreted this message as her attempt at re-gaining control of the situation, trying to instill a sense of guilt in me so that it appears in her mind that she has been the good person. She is wanting me to respond with "Oh don't be silly - you are a good person! You have nothing to be sorry for!" I used to get sucked in to this, simply to try and restore the peace and I always did feel guilty for prolonging the conflict. She made me feel as if I was being the unreasonable one. Now I ignore and don't respond to these messages.

In terms of dealing with your wishes and dreams of having a loving, caring, nurturing relationship with your BPD - I have found it helpful to look back at the patterns of behaviour in past arguments/dramas. As far back as childhood if you can! Is there a strong history of apology after apology, with undercurrents of guilt and blame, with no genuine attempt to make things better for the future? In my case the only apologies were made as a weapon to get her own way. Genuine heartfelt apologies carry no underlying messages, they assign no blame. By analysing the behaviour patterns (as opposed to worrying, stressing or simply re-playing) I found that it helped me to reduce my expectations of what I wanted from her. I finally admitted to myself that it was unrealistic to expect anything from her, and I was able to identify where I wanted my boundaries. I now accept that I will never have a loving relationship with my sister, so I throw myself whole-heartedly into the relationships with others where I know I CAN find that love and care that I crave. I have close friends who I consider my surrogate sisters! It is a hard road to get to the point where you can admit this to yourself, but it is quite liberating!

Re boundaries - the boundaries you put in place have to include boundaries regarding your tolerance for her behaviour (ie. "stop - I will not put up with being treated this way", but you also need boundaries for yourself and your reactions to her. At what point do you want to say "Stop. I will no longer allow myself to feel like this. I will not allow myself to be impacted by her behaviour." Much of our suffering is due to our own reactions and response to the actions of others. Much of what my sister says to me now is like ripples on the surface of a pond, or water off a ducks back. It glides over the surface but I don't let it into my heart. A great book that has helped me in this is "The Art of Happiness" by Howard Cutler and the Dalai Lama - it talks a lot about compassion, patience and tolerance and we can use these tools to protect ourselves, and change our response to negative situations. You cannot change others, you can only change yourself!

I hope this helps xo

[Legacymaker]

Somersby,

Thank you for your very eloquent response.  It was funny, reading the things your sister wrote to you.  I immediately picked up on the challenge of her words! I think it is easier to see/hear and feel the manipulation, guilt and drama when it is not your own family member.

You have offered me so much insight with this comment:

Genuine heartfelt apologies carry no underlying messages, they assign no blame.

Tonight my mom's husband is texting my husband, to see if I got "the card". (I received it yesterday) He wants to know how I felt about it.  He is making sure that I know that my mom is "hurting".

My immediate reaction to the text is guilt followed closely by anger.  I am really trying to process what I want out of this relationship.  If I take the one sentence in her apology, that I am reacting to, "Nothing is ever one-sided".  It indicates to me that she still feels that I have said/done something wrong and she wants me to apologize for that.

My thoughts on this are:

-I have very little to apologize for.  Aside from leaving her sitting in my car and perhaps rolling my eyes or looking hurt, I don't think I reacted much

  to the latest rant.

-I do not think by responding that I will change her outlook on anything that was said to me. She has her own perspective of the conversation. (Which is far more gentle than the one that I have).

-an argument is a way of trying to influence anothers opinion, which rarely makes much difference. (In my other relationships I consider myself easy going)

The solutions as I see them:

-try to explain how much damage the verbal spewing does (that will fall on deaf ears)

-try to stand my ground and have her see my side (that will continue to make this a competition and since she has little regard for my opinions I don't think this would  

 be effective either)  I don't need to "win".

-ignore this part of the "apology" and re-establish some form of a relationship (I can see how this continues to take more pieces away from my own soul, by ignoring my

pesonal values)

-not respond at all (and keep the quiet sanctuary I have had for weeks now)

She counts on my need to restore peace and I am sure that my lack of response is what is throwing her off now, 50 years of being a rescuer is a very long established pattern!

I will definately take a look at the book you have suggested.  Thank you for offering a few more tools for me to use!  For now, I will continue to seek that inner peace.  I suppose that one of the first boundries is that I can continue to do nothing... . after all, its all about "choices" isn't it?

[lucyhoneychurch]

Losing more pieces of your soul vs sanctuary/calm.

I think you are already there as far as framing your decision.   

The good thing about NC when it has gotten this ridiculous (her husband trawling in your husband I mean COME ON) -

You can always undo NC. She might not go along if she wants to punish you later for it. But you can re-establish contact or offer it again later if that might work for you.

NC isn't a state of totality permanently, it's just a port in the storm so you can think, rest, renew, BREATHE and live.

I credit NC with my survival, literally.

There is no way I could've surmounted my health crises if she'd been any part of my life whatsoever. 

They don't offer us any other choices and it's not for everyone, but it saved me. 

[Sitara]

My mom hasn't always been this bad.  I use to think we were really close.  In hindsite, we were, as long as I was towing the line and not being my own person. When I began to expect her to show me respect, was when I would say things started to escalate.  The more disagreements we had, the more boundries I needed to establish.  The more boundries, the more arguments and the circle continues.

My life, exactly.

On the surface this appears as a genuine apology, however her underlying message is one of self pity, and there is little true remorse in there

This is what I find so frustrating when I try to explain my mom to people who haven't been in the situation - on the outside it does sometimes seem sincere or reasonable - but living my whole life with this type of manipulation, I know there's an ulterior motive lurking beneath the surface.

Tonight my mom's husband is texting my husband, to see if I got "the card". (I received it yesterday) He wants to know how I felt about it.  He is making sure that I know that my mom is "hurting".

I find this behavior annoying - endad playing messenger because mom is too hurt to talk to me directly.  I'm often told my mom doesn't want to get yelled at by me, or I won't listen to her, I'm too difficult to talk to, or some other "poor me" scenario. 

Have you looked into JADE?

Don't

Justify

Argue

Defend

Explain

Quote from united for now from this thread https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=205038.0

"When faced with untrue accusations it feels natural to want to defend yourself. To explain yourself. After all, no one wants to hear lies and distortions of the truth.

The problem is that JADE rarely works. It often makes things worse. She won't believe you because as soon as you start justify/attacking/defending/explaining yourself her own defense mechanisms kick in and she can't process what you say. You see, she can't accept being wrong. Her version of what happened is her truth. Her feelings are her facts. She hears your JADE as blame and criticism, and to her blame and criticism feels unbearably painful. She blocks out painful information by attacking and shifting the blame onto you instead.

There are more effective ways to communicate "your truth", such as SET, GIVE, and DEARMAN. They were developed to get past a pwBPD's defense mechanisms.  Timing is also critical, so choose a time when she isn't in an argumentative mood already. A spoonful of validation and empathy also help set the stage so that she is more open and receptive to hearing what you have to say."

So if you do decide to have a talk with her, it may help to keep those things in mind.

[Deb]

The problem is that JADE rarely works. It often makes things worse. She won't believe you because as soon as you start justify/attacking/defending/explaining yourself her own defense mechanisms kick in and she can't process what you say. You see, she can't accept being wrong. Her version of what happened is her truth. Her feelings are her facts. She hears your JADE as blame and criticism, and to her blame and criticism feels unbearably painful. She blocks out painful information by attacking and shifting the blame onto you instead.

I just wanted to add that from my experience, when you JADE, many PDs will feel that you MUST be guilty of the accusation because you are trying to defend yourself. When I would JADE with PDs in my life, they would just becaome so certain that their feelings were truth.

[maxen]

i thank everyone who shared on this thread. i'm not in exactly the same position as you are, but the topic is still very pertinent to my situation.

Abusers must believe that there are two sides to any disastrous episode. They cannot and surely will never say, "MY GOD, I can't believe I did that [said that] to you, I am so so so sorry, please forgive me."

the short of it is, that my stbxBPDw deceived me and bolted, driving straight to the other party's house, where she has been since. our marriage had slowed down emotionally, but no worse than that. her family cut me (and my family) off immediately. the only communication i've received from them was an email from her mother, which read "there's two sides to every pancake" (her exact phrase). well no, there aren't two sides to deceit and blowing someone's life up. it's not a pancake, it's a moebius strip. and her daughter, my w, shrugged when i faced her with her infidelity. she cannot and will never say, "my god i can't believe i did that to you."

[Legacymaker]

I am so sorry to hear about your conflict Maxem.  I wish things were easier for all of us!  I probably would have retaliated with, "yep, sometimes you just gotta flip the pancake to see if the other side is cooked!"

[Tanith]

The card you got from your mom is crazy-making, part of the subtle gaslighting these people do.  It sounds reasonable, and is intended to forget the sequence and reality of what went down, so that you allow the thought: "Is it part my fault too?"  And then you lose grip on reality, your reality being warped by the BPD person, and slip back into relationship with them.  They are masters at making you doubt yourself and doubt reality.

[delaney]

She HAS to believe she was justified. My mother's apologies are always accompanied by a huge helping of self loathing, "I'm sorry I'm your mother, I ruin everyone's life, I should go into hiding and never speak to anyone again" along with a healthy dose of justification, "I only said that because I was so upset about XYZ."

I was on another forum that used the term to "black hole" everything. Basically, when you've mentally placed someone on a time out from your life (which it sounds like you have and that it's very much needed) things might get in, but nothing gets out. She can send cards, emails, letters, phone calls, but she gets nothing in return. Absolutely no response from you or your husband. No one that she sends to you with messages gets a response other than perhaps a firm but gentle "Mind your own business". BH'ing can be very helpful when dealing with someone who thrives on drama and desperately needs to know that they are getting to you.