Dealing with the need for justification

[Depression = 72% of members]

As i struggle along, this is something that shows its head, sometimes, making me pause and question - the need for justification. I've stopped trying to justify what i think and do to my friends, well-meaning and supportive as they are, because they just cannot understand this need i have for doing the right thing... . i try to do right by my husband, but sometimes it is contrary to what is good for my well-being, and then the resentment creeps in... . and i'm making up all kinds of things to justify myself to myself.

I don't try to justify myself to my daughter because i feel it puts a strain on her feelings, and i've only just realized, from this website that i don't have to worry about having damaged her - she isn't - still i hate to pull her into this - she so wants what is best for me... . but the need to justify my actions and thoughts to myself still rears up sometimes... . as if i needed an endorsement... . Do others feel the same way?

For instance, my husband has an almost unlimited capacity for talking - of course he knows a lot but he will not listen to another person's or my point of view - it is always only what he knows and what he has read... . i am not a talkative person, and so many words flowing over me tires me out and most times since his talk is about himself or negative things about everything and everyone, and the state of the world etc... i find that my mind just shuts down... . kind of like self-preservation... . later i think, maybe i should have listened - but i couldn't. This is one example - but there are other things too that happen that hurt and i try to justify my reactions to myself... . He has to always be in a situation where he is praised - if that doesn't happen either at work or at home, i am at the receiving end or scathing words. I do react at times when it just gets too much to bear by answering back, which stops him momentarily but then comes back at me with greater force and the whole thing just spins off... .

Am i getting issues mixed up here? where does justification come in when i'm trying to hang on to my sanity? yet, why do i feel i need to justify myself?

[Lilibeth]

As i struggle along, this is something that shows its head, sometimes, making me pause and question - the need for justification. I've stopped trying to justify what i think and do to my friends, well-meaning and supportive as they are, because they just cannot understand this need i have for doing the right thing... . i try to do right by my husband, but sometimes it is contrary to what is good for my well-being, and then the resentment creeps in... . and i'm making up all kinds of things to justify myself to myself.

I don't try to justify myself to my daughter because i feel it puts a strain on her feelings, and i've only just realized, from this website that i don't have to worry about having damaged her - she isn't - still i hate to pull her into this - she so wants what is best for me... . but the need to justify my actions and thoughts to myself still rears up sometimes... . as if i needed an endorsement... . Do others feel the same way?

For instance, my husband has an almost unlimited capacity for talking - of course he knows a lot but he will not listen to another person's or my point of view - it is always only what he knows and what he has read... . i am not a talkative person, and so many words flowing over me tires me out and most times since his talk is about himself or negative things about everything and everyone, and the state of the world etc... i find that my mind just shuts down... . kind of like self-preservation... . later i think, maybe i should have listened - but i couldn't. This is one example - but there are other things too that happen that hurt and i try to justify my reactions to myself... . He has to always be in a situation where he is praised - if that doesn't happen either at work or at home, i am at the receiving end or scathing words. I do react at times when it just gets too much to bear by answering back, which stops him momentarily but then comes back at me with greater force and the whole thing just spins off... .

Am i getting issues mixed up here? where does justification come in when i'm trying to hang on to my sanity? yet, why do i feel i need to justify myself?

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[Grey Kitty]

  Not justifying yourself to other people sounds good to me.

Justification to your H is a bad idea. We say don't JADE around here: Don't Justify, Argue, Defend, or Explain.

 Needing to justify your own actions to yourself sounds like a  that your actions are not matching up with your values. Resentment is another cue that you need to change something.

In this case, I'd suggest that you should leave the "conversation" with your H when you don't want to hear what he's going to talk about... . rather than checking out.

After the fact, do you really wish you had listened, or do you wish that he had shut up?

[Lilibeth]

Thank you Grey Kitty. Yes, Grey Kitty, when i know that i just don't want to listen to that barrage of negative words drowning me out, mainly because i also don't agree with a lot that he is saying, i should respect that for myself and just leave the room or do something else... . Resentment comes in when he does not give me a chance to say something but has decided in his mind that this is what Lilibeth is thinking and acts accordingly - i have tried to tell him not to please decide what i am thinking but it's of no use... he decides and that's it... . i have to realize that since this is a problem with him, i have to figure out some way of not getting myself into this resentment frame of mind... .

I also need to find out more about JADE. This is hugely relevant to me. Thanks for telling me, Grey Kitty.

[Grey Kitty]

Here's a quick bit about JADE-ing and BPD.

When you do any of those things, Justifying yourself or your actions, Arguing with him, Defending yourself, or Explaining yourself/your actions to him, there is a common problem.

Every one of those things is invalidating to your H. And as a pwBPD, he is much more sensitive to invalidation that normal people are... . so when you do it, you are adding fuel to the fire underneath his mental disorder.

We do have a workshop on about this... . I recommend it: (taken from the Lessons in the sidebar --->> >

TOOLS: Stop Invalidating Your Partner (or the BPD person in your life)

I recommend you work on stopping this sort of invalidation as a first step--Just a touch of invalidation is enough to undo all sorts of good work and efforts on your part.

[Lilibeth]

Thank you Grey Kitty for sending me the link. I'll go to it right now. And yes, i'll focus on this rather than on the invalidation part... . thanks for cautioning me.

[Chosen]

Hi Lilibeth,

We as human beings have a need to be validated, whether we are pwBPDs or not.  Sometimes we do it by JADEing, trying to convince the other party that our actions/ thoughts are OK in a logical way. 

The trouble with communicating with a pwBPD is that they are unable to validate you and themselves at the same time, especially when you two are having different opinions.  One opinion is automatically "right" and the other "wrong".  By justifying yourself, you are invalidating the pwBPD. 

From my experience, looking for validation in a pwBPD is mostly a lost cause.  I do believe that many of them can do validation, but only in times when THEY want to, which is not necessarily the time you need it.  First you'll need to learn to validate yourself.  Tell yourself that you're think hit__, it's ok to think that way and it's ok even if other people don't take your side.  It's very difficult, but I find that it lowers your expectation of your pwBPD agreeing with your/ validating you, and will give you less of a motivation to justify yourself.

Take care!

[Lilibeth]

Thank you Chosen. You know, Chosen, this is something i so have to learn - for so long i have been desperately wanting to be accepted because i believed the fault was all mine - especially since when he came out of his dysregulated phase he would try to turn my daughter against me saying - see it's all Mummy's fault - for no reason she just becomes hyper (or something along those lines to make me feel small and rubbish in front of my daughter. I feel just too awful and terrible for words when i think of these times). It is only now that i realize that my husband has BPD, and i have been at the receiving end. DreamFlyer99 and Waverider have been helping me heal and get back to myself. Your telling me 'it's ok to think that way and it's ok even if other people don't take your side,' is adding to this - i will surely try and remind myself of this. Yes, i have to totally lower all expectations of my husband... . in fact since i joined this family, in small ways i have been forcing myself to this new pattern of thinking and not expecting anything from him, and i am finding a lot of peace inside of myself. Have to work on the justification too---and i think if i think that it is okay to think the way i am thinking will help me here.

[Chosen]

That's good to hear, Lilibeth!

I've learnt so much from the 1.5 years I've been on here, and the senior members are certainly very helpful in helping us see through the FOG of BPD.  To this day, I still find it hard sometimes to tell myself "it's ok if he doesn't believe in what you say/ buy your opinion/ think you're "feeling wrong".  I think we first need to build up a strong sense of self before we can stop having our opinion/ feelings swayed just because our pwBPD doesn't agree with us.  It's even harder because they are our spouses and to some extent we value what they say, we don't want to diss everything they express as "I don't need to care about this". 

But it's worth taking everything they say with a grain- no, a teaspoon of salt.  I believe it's the only way we can stay sane and grounded in such a relationship.

[Lilibeth]

Am trying to build my sense of self, Chosen, with some pointers given to me by DreamFlyer99. Yes, i am learning to take what he says with a grain of salt. Am also learning to step back and not take every word that he says seriously at all... . all these years i took what he said as gospel truth and it got me into so much trouble both with him and with others and he wouldn't stand by me, instead would ask me why i had acted on what he said - when that is exactly what he had wanted me to do. In the process i lost myself totally... . so now have to start over... . I do value what he says on impersonal topics or academic topics, but even then now i keep a distance and don't give an opinion at all, at least for a time... . learning to wait since he changes his stand so often... . am learning, but i'm one of those people who needed this belief in me to come from the outside - sad but true... . now i'm getting it from here so it is easier to work on my sense of self.