personal insults

[preciousme]

Hi,

I have not seen my BPDbf for two days and am thinking about alot of things, I really would be interested to know how others deal with or have dealt with personal insults when being raged at.  My BPDbf would go into awful rages and rant for hours about everything in the world and how various people/situations had wronged him and how he would like to kill and torture these people... . I hated these times but managed them by letting him rant until he had finished.  However, more recently he had started ranting and raging at me, about me.  He has said some really cruel and unbelievable things to my face but also over the phone.  When it was to my face i ended up walking out (I was at his flat) and other times i end up putting the phone down.  He has shouted at me lots of times particularly over the phone if I am not doing what he wants but when the insults start getting personal and downright cruel and so unkind how the hell does anyone deal with it?  After him doing again the other morning on the phone when I saw him the next day I tried to talk to him about it saying its not at all acceptable. We ended up having a screaming match and then I came home having resolved nothing at all... .

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[wishfulthinking]

Mine won't apologize, he will only say that he didn't mean them and said them because he was mad.  That's BS, because if I say things in anger (most of the time pushed to that point and finally I tell the truth), then he holds onto them and uses them against me about how bad I hurt him, even though once he even told me that they were just words, not like they meant anything... . in the beginning when I said that was not acceptable.  He has eased up some because on a rare day where he listens to how I feel, I told him how badly it hurts when he says those things.  Those rare days are right after a fight where I'm ready to leave.  Funny how they can listen so well then, but no other time.

[wishfulthinking]

Considering I see he is showing who he is while still your BF, then I'd be wary of ever marrying him.  It gets worse after.  I saw no signs before, but 2 weeks after... . BAM!  My world got turned upside down.  I'd definitely think twice if I had it to do over again.

[preciousme]

Hi wishfulthinking,

thanks for reading and for your replies.  He did say one time after saying really hurtful things about my appearance that of course he fancies me and thinks I am beautiful but not that he actually didnt mean what he said.  I did think these particular insults were pathetic and I have enough confidence in myself to not take them seriously... . but even so it still left me thinking wow does he really look at me and think these things?  The other times he has not said sorry and only said that he is being honest about what he thinks.  where the hell does leave me!   I sure as hell will not be marrying him.  Like yours, he has in the past tended to backtrack when he thinks I am leaving but not this time.  Also like yours, the things I say to him, which are always mild in comparison, are not forgotten.  Crazy.

[guitarguy09]

Hi preciousme,

My uBPDw has called me everything under the sun, particularly if she feels I am defending my family. Some examples: "Why don't you go be with your family, since you are obviously on their side" "You never defend me" (not true) "Your head is so far up your family's (blank)". You are such a (insert any word for wimp here).

Lately, I have found that not responding is a pretty good way to not escalate the situation and to actually shorten the arguments. It suggests on here that you should acknowledge your pwBPD's feelings, and that is something I certainly need to work on. But life has definitely improved since I learned to stop continuing an argument with her. Do remember that everything that you give in an argument is going to be given back harder. I have learned also that you can argue until you're blue in the face but it's not going to get your pwBPD to see your point any more than if you didn't bring anything up at all most of the time.

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

Mine won't apologize, he will only say that he didn't mean them and said them because he was mad.  That's BS, because if I say things in anger (most of the time pushed to that point and finally I tell the truth), then he holds onto them and uses them against me about how bad I hurt him

Mine's the same way... . she can say awful things daily, but what I said, once, two years ago is why she can't trust me and that I'm committed to our marriage... .

I wouldn't say it always gets worse over time, but I'd think real hard about marriage knowing what I know now... .

[waverider]

Leaving his presence or putting the phone down is a boundary.

Trying to "have it out with him" is a demand, and is futile it just triggers his auto defense which is denial to the end, backed up by counter claim.

Stick to your boundaries and try to refrain from demands they dont work.

[living in the past]

 Hi preciousme, even after i learned about there black and white thinking and devauling, and it was not about me ,it still hurts,but i can get over it in a day or two, and not have to battle going into a depression about it,this web site has been a God send to me, i am still undecided, but know for my own well being that i need to do some serious detaching,which might mean not seeing friend pwBPD, for a while, i know from reading here there will never be a good closure, i am just hopeing for a calm and fading one, today i will be ok,nice to read your thread.

[preciousme]

Thanks for all of your replies, they are really helpful and also help me feel not so alone.  Clearly what I have found myself doing wrong recently is trying to 'have it out with him' and this time particularly it has just made things much worse.  I left his home, but was also being told to f. off anyway by this point, so yes the whole thing of trying to have it out with him was pointless.  Just turned into a screaming match as i was SO angry and absolutely nothing remotely resolved, just a worse situation with me left feeling awful.

[preciousme]

Also... . if I walk away/ put the phone down at these times - how do I then act afterwards if I dont try and have it out with him or call him on it in some way?  It feels very wrong just letting someone talk to me like that saying really mean things, that have no truth in them whatsoever, about me?

[guitarguy09]

Also... . if I walk away/ put the phone down at these times - how do I then act afterwards if I dont try and have it out with him or call him on it in some way?  It feels very wrong just letting someone talk to me like that saying really mean things, that have no truth in them whatsoever, about me?

Remember one of the sayings on this web site... . "Before you can make it better, you must stop making it worse." There will be some times, guaranteed, when he will say things that are untrue and hurtful towards you. I choose to stay and listen (although not really taking in everything she says), and not be hurt by what my uBPDw says. If she wants to flip out, then so be it. But I'm not going to engage in a circular argument with her when I know what the outcome will be: She still will not get what I am trying to tell her, she will hurl more insults at me, and if anything it will just make her even angrier.

[preciousme]

so do I just walk out/put phone down and then next time I see him pretend it never happened? hmm not sure I can do that.  I guess it depends how much is invested in the relationship, those of you who are married and/or have children or share finances and a home have a lot more to weigh up.  For me, although I still feel like I want to keep trying (although at this moment in time I dont know if he does!) I am wondering also if it is worth it.  But right now I miss him, miss what he is like when he is not being nasty.  If only I could switch his mouth off! 

After reading lots on this board, I also fear now that I am a trigger and without me he may be fine.  I keep thinking he wouldnt be like this with someone else, I just seem to wind him up.  I have a much busier life than him, just ordinary stuff but he doesnt seem to like that i have other things that i need to do... like go to work!  He also doesnt like it if I am tired and want to go to bed at a normal time... . oh hell the list could go on if I start thinking too much.   Its like he tries to manage these normal things but suddenly he cant and then goes off on one at me. 

[wishfulthinking]

preciousme,

OK... . Yes, you are a trigger.  WHOEVER IS CLOSEST TO HIM in his life is going to be his trigger.  That's why the SO's get the BS and people who are just aquaintances think these people are awesome.  That's how they pull us in.  You need to look at things and either use radical acceptance and yes, put the phone down and let it go because nothing you say will change how he will be for the most part and it will NEVER change without therapy, or cut loose now and save yourself the drama you are guaranteed.  My BPD/NPDh is great 70% of the time.  Very sensitive and thoughtful and sweet... . but that 30% is PURE HELL.  That 30% is almost enough to make me file for divorce.  I get closer every week to doing it.  I can only take so much.  I'm not superhuman and him calling me a C*nt, b!tch, W$ore, talking bad about my deceased family, about my first marriage (I stayed with him cheating on me for 9 years) saying I deserved it and no wonder he cheated, how selfish, mean, uncaring, emotionless, trash, etc... . I could go on... . it bothers me.  I can't detach enough that it doesn't, but I get better as I distance myself from him entirely.  Thing is, that means my love fades, too.  I want to love him like I did.  But there have been some very damaging things happen.  Physical and verbal. 

Mainly, no matter who he is with, it will be the same for him, till he either gets help or till he dies.  It's not BECAUSE of you, though you will always be the target.  You will trigger things that happened 20 years ago.  You can't help it and it's not right, but it is what it is.

Mine doesn't like that I work with other men... . in a building with 150 people, I can't control that.  I'm not HR.  He freaks and calls if I'm 10 min late, but last night he was an hour late from work, but I'm not supposed to ask why. 

Yours will come back.  He's not done yet, he is wanting you to beg his forgiveness and prove that he is right. 

[guitarguy09]

preciousme,

If you can, I would probably get out now while you still can. What you are experiencing now is a preview of things to come. This will happen many, many times over your lifetime if you decide to stay with him. You just need to decide if you love him enough to overlook his flaws.

And next time you see him (and subsequent times), don't bring up things he said unless it's in a gentle way. You could say "I understand how you could feel that way, but maybe we could have a calm discussion next time after you have cooled off." Otherwise it can start another circular argument/rage on his part.

[elemental]

This is the staying board. OP is asking for help on how she can manage the situation.

Trying to address the issue by discussion after you come back does not work.  It will cause more disregulation and you will find your self with extra events to enforce the original boundry over. That's a lot of extra work for you and emotional upset you probably don't really want.

I am not saying pretend it didn't happen. I am saying move on when you can. When he abuses you again, leave to enforce the boundry. Eventually some of these things will die down. I  would say after you leaving 4 or 5 times consistently, he will slow it down a lot.

Hopefully 

[wishfulthinking]

I found leaving (or trying to) caused extintion bursts... . both times police had to be called.  Boundaries are hard.  Establish them now when it's starting because trying to do it after the pattern is set can cause bigger issues.  Either way, it HAS to be done.  Mine has died down and calmed during the rages, but they still happen.  When they do, I just ignore and hope he stops soon.  Any questions are yes, no, I don't know... . and pray it ends quickly.  We all have our weak moments, though.  We are human.  Occasionally we will react instead of respond.  Especially at first when learning.  Be careful and never allow yourself to be in a bathroom or other unescapable room when he rages.  Even if slowly, start moving toward a door and don't let him be between you and the door.  Be where you can leave, keep your keys and purse/wallet and phone accessible at all times.  Put emergency cash in your vehicle and an extra key, if you can.  Mine is very controlling and takes my keys right away and has broken 2 phones.  Hide what you can in your car.

[waverider]

Also... . if I walk away/ put the phone down at these times - how do I then act afterwards if I dont try and have it out with him or call him on it in some way?  It feels very wrong just letting someone talk to me like that saying really mean things, that have no truth in them whatsoever, about me?

Dont revisit the issue trying get an apology or correct it. Simply state that you dont appreciate being treated that way and if continues to do so you will leave/put the phone.

You are stating your truth, what you are willing to put up with, and what happens if the boundary is crossed. Going back over the details just bogs you down in justifying, arguing,defending, & explaining (JADE). This will just open up the issue again so that it flies off on another tangient.

Your boundary action may not change him, but that is a secondary objective, but will help your own sanity, which is the primary objective.

Engaging in nonsense is ultimately a choice, exercise your right of choice

[guitarguy09]

Also... . if I walk away/ put the phone down at these times - how do I then act afterwards if I dont try and have it out with him or call him on it in some way?  It feels very wrong just letting someone talk to me like that saying really mean things, that have no truth in them whatsoever, about me?

Dont revisit the issue trying get an apology or correct it. Simply state that you dont appreciate being treated that way and if continues to do so you will leave/put the phone.

You are stating your truth, what you are willing to put up with, and what happens if the boundary is crossed. Going back over the details just bogs you down in justifying, arguing,defending, & explaining (JADE). This will just open up the issue again so that it flies off on another tangient.

Your boundary action may not change him, but that is a secondary objective, but will help your own sanity, which is the primary objective.

Engaging in nonsense is ultimately a choice, exercise your right of choice

Great points. Once, after a night of arguing including her smashing one of our smaller picture frames with our picture in it, we made up but the next morning I made a mistake. I swept up the pieces of glass into the dustpan and let it sit on the trash. I told her "I just want you to see what you did." She responded by snapping back at me and saying "I know what I did, you don't have to rub it in my face." She then proceeded to be mad at me for most of the rest of the day (it was a weekend). So going over an argument and JADEing or blaming = really not helpful. However, going over what Waverider was talking about could definitely be more helpful.

[waverider]

Yep address the attitude not the issue. The issue is just a symptom and fraught with triggers. Ironically addressing the attitude means you are acknowledging their emotion that drove them to do whatever it was, which is what they were trying to demonstrate in the first place.  By addressing the issue means you are ignoring their emotion that drove them to the action. You are ignoring and invalidating their emotion... Hence it's on again.

It is easier for us to focus on the nuts and bolts of what we see in front of us (thats our world), rather than the screwed up emotions behind them(a pwBPDs world). We are still in fight mode so we are sticking to what seems more favourable ground to us, but more threatening to them.

Asking them to clear up their own mess is better than you doing it then making a passive aggressive demonstration over it. If you decide to clear it up yourself then just do it and don't make an issue over it. Especially if you have "made up" it makes your make up look insincere.

[preciousme]

Thanks everyone for all of your comments, they have certainly given me lots to think about and enabled me to see that the way I respond just makes the situation worse at times.  Its really hard though because he winds me up so much.  Next time it happens I am going to try and keep calm and walk away/put phone down expressing that I am not going to be spoken to like that and take it from there.  Surely I will get tired of going around and around on this merry go round soon... .