Some questions I need answered

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Some questions I need answered.

Having some trouble today, and need a little support from the crew here, so don’t bite my head off.

• She used to be quite the Facebook maniac when were married, lots of profile changes, uploading photos, etc.   After she got with her new guy, she never makes any sort of status update.  Her page is basically dead and she’ll "like" a few status updates now and then.  She has never posted photos of her and her new guy even though they are still together, but she used post a lot of photos of us.  Why is this? Is she embarrassed of her new guy?  If she is so happy, why isn’t she telling the world?



• So she gained a ton of weight while we were married, got depressed, withdrew sex completely for months.  I really tried to help her, but she just wouldn’t do a thing to help our situation.   So a month before our divorce is finalized, she miraculously drops 35 lbs, becomes a raging b!tch to me, and starts having sex with her co-worker (who, I’m sorry for being judgmental, is rather unattractive and very overweight).  How is she able to make such extreme physical changes for someone new?  I was basically in elite physical condition while were married, but she was still judgmental of how I looked.  How is she accepting of his obesity?  




• Her new guy is supposedly really smart, pushy and brash. Some consider him nice, others referred to him as a jerk.  He lives with his mom who has health problems.  His younger brother committed suicide a few years back.  Makes good money $150K (ex-wife is very materialistic).  He’s an AVP at the mid-sized company they work for.  He was dating a woman who was going to be a neurologist, but they split and he got with my ex-wife a few months later.  If he’s such a smart guy, why isn’t he seeing through her BS?  I am shocked that have been dating more than a year and it hasn’t ended yet to be honest.   I know that whenever I was pushy or brash with her, she’d FLIP OUT and start yelling at me.




• So, I’ve been with a girl now for 5 months.  She is prettier than my ex-wife (everyone seems to think so), smarter, not under the operation of several bi-polar meds, attentive, and very nice.  We have had two small arguments and they were defused quickly.   You would think having such a special woman in my life would make me forget about my ex-wife but this isn’t the case.    Not a day goes by where I don’t think about her and wonder what she is doing.  She occupies space in my head at the weirdest times.  So why am I still thinking about this person and being triggered when everything in my universe is telling me to be with my new girl?



• It is wrong for me to think this, but I want her new relationship to FAIL MISERABLY.  They way she rubbed it in my face (and acted so above me) that she was with this guy makes me want karma to hit her in the face.  I never was this way before.  It can't be indifferent.  Can anyone chime in about why I feel so vengeful?

[expos]

Some questions I need answered.

Having some trouble today, and need a little support from the crew here, so don’t bite my head off.

• She used to be quite the Facebook maniac when were married, lots of profile changes, uploading photos, etc.   After she got with her new guy, she never makes any sort of status update.  Her page is basically dead and she’ll "like" a few status updates now and then.  She has never posted photos of her and her new guy even though they are still together, but she used post a lot of photos of us.  Why is this? Is she embarrassed of her new guy?  If she is so happy, why isn’t she telling the world?



• So she gained a ton of weight while we were married, got depressed, withdrew sex completely for months.  I really tried to help her, but she just wouldn’t do a thing to help our situation.   So a month before our divorce is finalized, she miraculously drops 35 lbs, becomes a raging b!tch to me, and starts having sex with her co-worker (who, I’m sorry for being judgmental, is rather unattractive and very overweight).  How is she able to make such extreme physical changes for someone new?  I was basically in elite physical condition while were married, but she was still judgmental of how I looked.  How is she accepting of his obesity?  




• Her new guy is supposedly really smart, pushy and brash. Some consider him nice, others referred to him as a jerk.  He lives with his mom who has health problems.  His younger brother committed suicide a few years back.  Makes good money $150K (ex-wife is very materialistic).  He’s an AVP at the mid-sized company they work for.  He was dating a woman who was going to be a neurologist, but they split and he got with my ex-wife a few months later.  If he’s such a smart guy, why isn’t he seeing through her BS?  I am shocked that have been dating more than a year and it hasn’t ended yet to be honest.   I know that whenever I was pushy or brash with her, she’d FLIP OUT and start yelling at me.




• So, I’ve been with a girl now for 5 months.  She is prettier than my ex-wife (everyone seems to think so), smarter, not under the operation of several bi-polar meds, attentive, and very nice.  We have had two small arguments and they were defused quickly.   You would think having such a special woman in my life would make me forget about my ex-wife but this isn’t the case.    Not a day goes by where I don’t think about her and wonder what she is doing.  She occupies space in my head at the weirdest times.  So why am I still thinking about this person and being triggered when everything in my universe is telling me to be with my new girl?



• It is wrong for me to think this, but I want her new relationship to FAIL MISERABLY.  They way she rubbed it in my face (and acted so above me) that she was with this guy makes me want karma to hit her in the face.  I never was this way before.  It can't be indifferent.  Can anyone chime in about why I feel so vengeful?

[seeking balance]

Expos,

I am sorry you are struggling.

I think you know the answers to most of these questions - honestly, right?  You have been on these boards a while and read a lot about the disorder and attachment styles. 

It sounds like you feel lost about who you are and what happened in general - this is normal after a divorce and no new relationship changes that fact. 

Are you in T?

Peace,

SB

[drxap]

Expos,

Would answering these questions really help you move forward? My worst days have been days that I obsess over questions about my ex. How was I not good enough, but an old underachieving pothead is suddenly someone she wants to be with? They will always be miserable and finding new victims. She doesn't really care about his personal qualities, she just cares that she can manipulate and control him. You are letting her continue to control you by thinking about her, and that's just the way she likes it.

I suggest making a rule that you cannot look her up on the web. The less you are looking at her pages, the easier it is going to be to move forward.

[Popcorn71]

Some questions I need answered.

Having some trouble today, and need a little support from the crew here, so don’t bite my head off.

Same here - a bad day for me too.  

• So she gained a ton of weight while we were married, got depressed, withdrew sex completely for months.  I really tried to help her, but she just wouldn’t do a thing to help our situation.   So a month before our divorce is finalized, she miraculously drops 35 lbs, becomes a raging b!tch to me, and starts having sex with her co-worker (who, I’m sorry for being judgmental, is rather unattractive and very overweight).  How is she able to make such extreme physical changes for someone new?  I was basically in elite physical condition while were married, but she was still judgmental of how I looked.  How is she accepting of his obesity?  

My ex has completely changed the way he dresses and his whole lifestyle.  I think they do it to attract/fit in with the replacement.  Also, my ex is with a woman who is exactly the type of woman he found unattractive.  She has so many characteristics that he said he didn't like, that it is unbelievable that he even looked at her, never mind got heavily involved so quickly.  I think they accept any flaws in the replacement because they are so desperate to be with somebody/anybody.  My ex admitted to me that he began a relationship with the replacement 'because he didn't want to be alone'.  Maybe that is the case with your ex too.

• Her new guy is supposedly really smart, pushy and brash. Some consider him nice, others referred to him as a jerk.   Makes good money $150K (ex-wife is very materialistic).  
  
   If he’s such a smart guy, why isn’t he seeing through her BS?  I am shocked that have been dating more than a year and it hasn’t ended yet to be honest.   I know that whenever I was pushy or brash with her, she’d FLIP OUT and start yelling at me.

She's clinging on to him for the lifestyle and has to hide her true self for as long as possible or he may see her for she really is.  Perhaps he is as desperate as she is, just to be with somebody and is putting up with her bad behaviour.  It probably isn't as rosy as it seems.  (I must remind myself of this when thinking of my ex and the replacement!)

• So, I’ve been with a girl now for 5 months.  She is prettier than my ex-wife (everyone seems to think so), smarter, not under the operation of several bi-polar meds, attentive, and very nice.  We have had two small arguments and they were defused quickly.   You would think having such a special woman in my life would make me forget about my ex-wife but this isn’t the case.    Not a day goes by where I don’t think about her and wonder what she is doing.  She occupies space in my head at the weirdest times.  So why am I still thinking about this person and being triggered when everything in my universe is telling me to be with my new girl?

 

Maybe it is too soon for you to be in a new relationship?  I tried dating but my mind is still with my ex so I have given up for a while.  I hope that time takes him from my mind.

• It is wrong for me to think this, but I want her new relationship to FAIL MISERABLY.  They way she rubbed it in my face (and acted so above me) that she was with this guy makes me want karma to hit her in the face.  I never was this way before.  It can't be indifferent.  Can anyone chime in about why I feel so vengeful?

 

I feel exactly the same.  More now than ever which is strange as up until a few days ago I thought I was doing well and getting over him.  I think it is just that we want them to hurt like they hurt us.  Hopefully in time, this will pass too.  Maybe as our lives become better and more settled, this feeling will be less strong.

[/list]

Thanks for your post.  Answering your questions has helped me to think about some answers to my own  

[seeking balance]

PS - I'd also like to note that I have seen a few photos of them together by accident (mutual friend) that did shake me up a bit.  It was at a wedding they attended together.  I didn't want to read to much into it, but every photo of them was her standing out in front with him about two steps behind, including one where he is actually holding her purse.  He looked completely submissive to her.

Why is this important to you?  What did you feel looking at it?

[In_n_Out]

I know that in the case of my ex, she will attach to the first guy that shows her any attention and from what I know of each of them, myself and my replacement, we all have little or nothing in common.  She even told me near the end that I wasn't her "type" but that she fell in love with me anyways.   

[Slave to the binary]

Hi Expos,

I am sorry you are having a tough day, last Wednesday was a rough one for me. One thing comes to mind when reading your post... . my suggestion to you is stop over-analyzing the situation with your ex. I *think* you may be trying to rationalize the actions of someone with a personality disorder and expecting to make sense out of it. I believe you already found out the hard way there is no logic to any of their actions. Remember, feelings=facts to them, which appears illogical to me. I also struggle with trying to understand their incredibly emotional and irrational thought processes with no luck, so I stopped. I suspect we are not supposed to understand them as they are disordered. Hugs to you.

[arn131arn]

I know how hard it is. I keep putting one foot in front of the other in an effort to detach from her. The second I feel like I am on my way, is the second her dad or her will call or hit me with a restraining order. I have been NC since Dec 10th. When you are in hell, all you can do sometimes is walk through it. I am walking and now, crawling, through the legal system. But a tiny victory here, a setback there, I am coming out of the FOG, recognizing when her and her family try to put me back in it, and an awareness to just do nothing, and I mean, absolutely nothing, allot of the times. Including looking at her FB. Done with that, it hurts more than it helps. But when the pain outweighed the knowledge, then did I stop all contact.

[TheFNG]

I'll take a swing at it.

• She used to be quite the Facebook maniac when were married, lots of profile changes, uploading photos, etc.   After she got with her new guy, she never makes any sort of status update.  Her page is basically dead and she’ll "like" a few status updates now and then.  She has never posted photos of her and her new guy even though they are still together, but she used post a lot of photos of us.  Why is this? Is she embarrassed of her new guy?  If she is so happy, why isn’t she telling the world?

Hard to tell.  i wouldn't try to read into it too much, although I have done the same thing, and even gone further into reading her messages to try and see what was going on, and all it did was make me more confused.

• So she gained a ton of weight while we were married, got depressed, withdrew sex completely for months.  I really tried to help her, but she just wouldn’t do a thing to help our situation.   So a month before our divorce is finalized, she ... . starts having sex with her co-worker... . How is she accepting of his obesity?  

He is an escape mechanism, a new host she can latch onto and start using now that you aren't available.  The sex is a tool of control, not affection.

• H  Makes good money $150K... . why isn’t he seeing through her BS?

Well, he sounds like a useful tool to get what she wants.  On his end, having sex with a good looking woman is going to cloud most men's judgement.

• So why am I still thinking about this person and being triggered when everything in my universe is telling me to be with my new girl?

 

Maybe a little codependence.  From my understanding of talking to a few people, they will break you down and build you up into something they can use, nurturing a dependence on them.  The crazy is sort of exciting though too.

• It is wrong for me to think this, but I want her new relationship to FAIL MISERABLY... . Can anyone chime in about why I feel so vengeful?

 

I think the thing that bothered me the most is the way my ex was able to just flip a switch and suddenly stop caring, while I still have some feelings for my ex.  The fact that they don't feel pain or guilt bothers you.

[/list]

So there you go.  I'm not a shrink or anything, but that would be my perspective on your situation.

[expos]

I'll take a swing at it.

• She used to be quite the Facebook maniac when were married, lots of profile changes, uploading photos, etc.   After she got with her new guy, she never makes any sort of status update.  Her page is basically dead and she’ll "like" a few status updates now and then.  She has never posted photos of her and her new guy even though they are still together, but she used post a lot of photos of us.  Why is this? Is she embarrassed of her new guy?  If she is so happy, why isn’t she telling the world?

Hard to tell.  i wouldn't try to read into it too much, although I have done the same thing, and even gone further into reading her messages to try and see what was going on, and all it did was make me more confused.

• So she gained a ton of weight while we were married, got depressed, withdrew sex completely for months.  I really tried to help her, but she just wouldn’t do a thing to help our situation.   So a month before our divorce is finalized, she ... . starts having sex with her co-worker... . How is she accepting of his obesity?  

He is an escape mechanism, a new host she can latch onto and start using now that you aren't available.  The sex is a tool of control, not affection.

• H  Makes good money $150K... . why isn’t he seeing through her BS?

Well, he sounds like a useful tool to get what she wants.  On his end, having sex with a good looking woman is going to cloud most men's judgement.

• So why am I still thinking about this person and being triggered when everything in my universe is telling me to be with my new girl?

 

Maybe a little codependence.  From my understanding of talking to a few people, they will break you down and build you up into something they can use, nurturing a dependence on them.  The crazy is sort of exciting though too.

• It is wrong for me to think this, but I want her new relationship to FAIL MISERABLY... . Can anyone chime in about why I feel so vengeful?

 

I think the thing that bothered me the most is the way my ex was able to just flip a switch and suddenly stop caring, while I still have some feelings for my ex.  The fact that they don't feel pain or guilt bothers you.

[/list]

So there you go.  I'm not a shrink or anything, but that would be my perspective on your situation.

Thank you! 

[expos]

PS - I'd also like to note that I have seen a few photos of them together by accident (mutual friend) that did shake me up a bit.  It was at a wedding they attended together.  I didn't want to read to much into it, but every photo of them was her standing out in front with him about two steps behind, including one where he is actually holding her purse.  He looked completely submissive to her.

Why is this important to you?  What did you feel looking at it?

I was Facebook friends with my brother in law’s wife.  I was invited to their wedding and obviously did not go because we divorced a few months before the actual wedding.  So, her new guy went in my place.  I forgot to de-friend my BIL’s wife and one afternoon at work, the wedding photos were posted and I got a good look at them together. 

Yeah, not a good day.

How did I feel?  A very strange array of emotions. 

1. She looked nearly as good as she did on our wedding day, so it was painful to see her look so good after just letting herself go during our marriage.  I felt like I never was worth the effort for her to look good for. 

2. Sadness and Jealously.  I was able to see her family again, which I was a part of for many years.  The new guy standing in the place I used to occupy in every photo.  After all, I was invited to that wedding. 

3. Confusion.  The new guy is someone I never thought my wife would be attracted to.  In photos, they look like a complete mismatch.   She is basically ignoring him in every photo.  She is on the dance floor in one photo and he's off to the side watching.   

It's things like this that you can't unsee.

Every now and then I slip a little.  I don't think I would have cared so much if we dated, but going through a marriage with this person is why I feel still a little invested and still care.

I'd say most of the time I feel very guilty that I'm not 100% for my new girl.  I know how amazing she is and I feel like a complete jerk letting my terrible ex-wife occupy this much space in my head.  Everyone has told me how much better I seem around her (less tense, happier) and I should be grateful because she is quite the gift.   I never feel like I need to walk on eggshells with her in my presence.

I guess it really boils down to her disorder beating me to the floor.  In many ways I have won and conquered her by moving on to someone better in every conceivable way, other times I feel huge waves of worthlessness.  The only thing the new guy has got on me is roughly $45K more per year, other than that, I don't see the draw AT ALL. 

[bpdspell]

Expos,

Divorce is difficult in enough of itself. Are you seeing a T?

As far as your ex is concerned no one on here can give you definitive answers about your ex's motivations. But the facts are that you two are divorced and she is dating someone else. I know that hurts to read but what matters most is that she wasn't a good wife to you. You experienced her crazy; remember that? I think you are connecting a lot of her current actions to your self worth and I think that's treating yourself unfairly.

You're feeling vengeful because you were wronged by this woman. That's called being human. But again how are you using your current life to process your feelings? Being hurt, angered, saddened and disappointed are all normal but when it becomes disempowering, toxic, and dysfunctional in a way that keeps us stuck I recommend seeking help.

Sometimes a new relationship is not the cure-all elixir we think it will be. I tried seeing other men while having the ex on my mind hourly and for me it totally sucked. I was physically present but galaxies away emotionally and feeling very compartmentalized. You've admitted to feeling guilty and that guilt will only intensify your already complex feelings about still loving someone else.

I even had a really sweet gentleman court me in ways the BPDex would never but I was so addicted to not being treated nicely that everything the new guy did irritated me because it only made me wish the BPD ex would do it. My mind keep ruminating about why I wasn't good enough for HIM. I was addicted to damaged low capacity love. I needed help badly.

As for them escaping pain free or scott free that is a giant myth. Being mentally ill is no walk in the park and when you fully understand and accept her BPD as a reality you will see how effed up it is to have a lifetime of this warped reality.

Also. Facebook is very triggering as we tend to create narratives that aren't necessarily true with pieces of information. Your truth is what you experienced when you were married to her. Remember that.

Spell

[expos]

Thanks Spell.  I did see a therapist last summer.  I found a good one who was sort of a nonsense type that got me to a better place.  I felt healthy enough to begin a new relationship, mainly because I was very drawn to this woman because she was interesting to me.  Very dynamic, yet cryptic, and brilliant.  She felt very drawn to me as well and she trusted her gut and wanted to have a few dates with me to figure me out.   So, she really did pull me away from my ex-wife and was pivotal in reassuring me (indirectly) that the problem really wasn't me - it was my disordered ex-wife who ignited a lot these insecurities.

I have put her under the microscope, in addition to setting up a lot of personal boundaries in order to not fall into the same trap again.  I've even asked off hand if she had ever been treated for depression or used meds of any type and she never has.  She's also had a very low count in terms of boyfriends, as she was a late bloomer in terms of looks.   Best of all, she keeps me on my toes in a good way and has a very positive nature about her.  She is a catch.

As for them escaping pain free or scott free that is a giant myth. Being mentally ill is no walk in the park and when you fully understand and accept her BPD as a reality you will see how effed up it is to have a lifetime of this warped reality.

I know this to be true.  She was never a positive person, so what really has changed?  I was not her first boyfriend when we were dating and I suspect she pulled a lot of the same crap with her exes.  Prior to me, she has not had a single relationship last more than a year.  And really, at the eighteenth month of our relationship, she had pulled away anyways. 

If she was so incredibly amazing, we would have never broken up or wanted to leave her.  I need to remember this.

[arielleis]

Believe me,

Facebook is the equivalent of a channel to black plague when it comes to BPDs.

I had already broken up with mine when I deleted her from Fb. When she asked me why, I answered "I don't feel the need to know what you are up to".

Since she NEEDED to flaunt her new victim, she didn't hesitate to let me know by text message that she had a new victim (after professing two days prior that I was the man of her life) and make ALL of her posts with him public so she would make sure I could see them (indeed they know us well).

I also realized that she removed all pictures when I blocked her for good. Then the "little manipulator" in me, unblocked her (though still not friends) and by some miracle, all those posts when public again after a couple days.

I then decided to no longer check her up on Fb, so not sure what is going on.

Long story short, that says enough about the nature of their... . "relationship"

My advice, stop peeking. It's pointless and delays the healing. It took me a month to have enough strength to stop that bad habit of checking her up.

AL

[expos]

Second round of questions -

1.  Where does all of that hatred and envy come from? 

2.  Why do they use people for happiness and take it out on them if THEY are unhappy?

[arielleis]

Second round of questions -

1.  Where does all of that hatred and envy come from? 

2.  Why do they use people for happiness and take it out on them if THEY are unhappy?

To your first question:

I would say it's a matter of insecurity and when you don't play the "role" they have assigned you.

One day you can be the knight in shiny armor. The next day you are the devil. This usually happens when you start challenging their logic, words, or simply don't play by their rules. Mine started the devaluation phase when she realized I was NOT gonna be her ATM machine, or when I wouldn't do what she wanted me to do. Before that, she was OH so in love with me, everything was radiant. I was in a long distance so we would see each other every other month. To give you an example, once she broke up with me when I refused to take a cab home and preferred hopping on a subway (it would have been quicker, since there was a lot of traffic). Just an example amongst others

Second question:

I believe BPDs enter a relationship assigning their victim a role. My ex is now with someone to, believe it or not (and to some extent... . ) rub it on my face. Since I broke up with her, she found a new victim that she has been flaunting in every possible place. I know that since she would never do that before. Also, when all of her entourage are asking "what the heck is going on with her and this guy... . " proves my point. She takes him to all the places she would take me, do the same activities and rub it on my face. I have been no contact for 5 months despite her charming attempts.

They will gauge someone at the beginning "can he provide me with money, status, make me look good in front of my friends, how does he elevate me socially".

Again, they take it away the moment they feel the victim is no longer fulfilling their purpose or the victim saw through their mask.

I am sure there are a million of other reasons, but the ones above are based on my own experience.

AL

[bpdspell]

1.  Where does all of that hatred and envy come from?  

It comes from their inner toxicity due to their illness based on their internal shame, insecurity, unstable sense of self and their compromised capacity to be emotionally mature. They are trapped three year olds in adult bodies. Having BPD is quite painful. They look normal on the outside but their brain wiring is stunted and they are emotionally handicapped.

2.  Why do they use people for happiness and take it out on them if THEY are unhappy?

They don't "use" people for happiness. They relate to others as objects rather than complex human beings. A BPD relationship isn't about "using others." It's a bit more third dimensional than that and don't forget it takes two to tango. If we were healthy ourselves we wouldn't have gotten "hooked" in with idealization and mirroring.

In the initial stages it's tons of love bombing and idealization (because remember they're emotional children and relating to us as soothing objects) but as the relationship progresses they realize that we aren't the golden calf/the jackpot/the perfect parent replacement that they desire us to be. Turns out we're humans with needs too but unfortunately for them they lack the capacity and maturity for reciprocity and being attuned to the nuances and needs of others. This is the crux of BPD. Not only is is a shame based disorder its a relational disorder and this is why intimacy generally triggers them into this devastating spin cycle. Unfortunately for us we don't find out until we are hooked and grasping for idealization straws.

My ex was handsome, perfect body, beautiful smile, glowing skin but inside: tortured, hateful, miserable, embittered, toxic, and damaged. Somewhere along the line we've all got to accept the facts.

Why do they take it out on us? Devaluation, because we got close, because we are nearest, because this is how they unload their emotion geyser, because they lack the maturity to manage their emotions in a healthy way.

Spell

[expos]

Second round of questions -

1.  Where does all of that hatred and envy come from? 

2.  Why do they use people for happiness and take it out on them if THEY are unhappy?

To your first question:

I would say it's a matter of insecurity and when you don't play the "role" they have assigned you.

One day you can be the knight in shiny armor. The next day you are the devil. This usually happens when you start challenging their logic, words, or simply don't play by their rules. Mine started the devaluation phase when she realized I was NOT gonna be her ATM machine, or when I wouldn't do what she wanted me to do. Before that, she was OH so in love with me, everything was radiant. I was in a long distance so we would see each other every other month. To give you an example, once she broke up with me when I refused to take a cab home and preferred hopping on a subway (it would have been quicker, since there was a lot of traffic). Just an example amongst others

Second question:

I believe BPDs enter a relationship assigning their victim a role. My ex is now with someone to, believe it or not (and to some extent... . ) rub it on my face. Since I broke up with her, she found a new victim that she has been flaunting in every possible place. I know that since she would never do that before. Also, when all of her entourage are asking "what the heck is going on with her and this guy... . " proves my point. She takes him to all the places she would take me, do the same activities and rub it on my face. I have been no contact for 5 months despite her charming attempts.

They will gauge someone at the beginning "can he provide me with money, status, make me look good in front of my friends, how does he elevate me socially".

Again, they take it away the moment they feel the victim is no longer fulfilling their purpose or the victim saw through their mask.

I am sure there are a million of other reasons, but the ones above are based on my own experience.

AL

You know, every time I think she really doesn't have BPD, I read posts like yours and their is just NO DENYING that she has this disorder.  You are hitting the nail right on the head.